ratirtAMD is aware and I can assure you they have a plan for all of this.

cucker tarlson:rolleyes:
to refresh rdna1 in 2020 ?

kingsBut AMD cannot wait, they are the ones who have to gain market share, increase profits, try to change the mindshare, etc ... It is AMD that is playing catch up, so if they have big guns, there is no interest in waiting.

The longer they wait, the more time they give Nvidia to respond and even subject themselves to Nvidia already having something better by then. It's a dangerous game for them, I don't think AMD is doing this on purpose.

ratirtCould be. Just like NV wants to refresh Turing with Ampere :)

cucker tarlsonsource ?
I don't know how your getting all this information cause so far amd mentioned rdna2 is rdna1 with rt and vrs but you claims it'srevolutionary for some reason,while nvidia said nothing about ampere and yet you know it's disappointing.

ratirtIf I were AMD I would wait for NV's release. To see where I stand with their new GPU and the odds are it will be very good.

ratirtSource?

cucker tarlsonthey had nothiong for tu104 and up,so yeah,keep waiting to see if ampere is slower than turing maybe.

ratirtthat is why Navi RDNA has never been released.

kingsWe will see, the last time AMD said it was going to compete seriously in the high end, we had Vega, 15 months after Pascal, barely matching the GTX 1080.

Not to mention the "overclockers dream" or "poor Volta" thing, etc ... What CEOs say is not reliable and especially at AMD we have had recent cases of reality not matching what is said. Therefore, caution and control over expectations are necessary.

ratirtWell, NV is releasing its new GPU first. At this point anything is possible.

ratirtEven though It has been confirmed the new RDNA2 is coming out this year, we all know this may change. I think AMD is waiting for the new NV GPU (that's a maybe). If they find out the new NV is not that improved over the Turing, maybe they will do something else? It is hard to predict what each company will actually do.

ratirtEven if NV and AMD release their cards I will still wait for benchmarks. I'm not in a hurry and I need to see what each can do to make a purchase decision.

Juankato1987We are always worried about NV pricing... lol... hopelly a RTX 3050 might be the game changer RTX at 200$ or less????
and 1660's performance at 150$ may be????
who knows.....

efikkanThey certainly can postpone or cancel products, or overclock them like they recently did. But the technical details of Navi 2x were already set in stone when it was taped out, probably early last year. People generally overestimate these companies' ability to adapt on the fly. They can certainly adjust clock speeds (within a range), disable/enable some features and change pricing on a moment's notice, but pretty much everything else is decided 2-3 years ahead. Even changes in production of different wafers usually takes >4 months until it reaches the market.

kapone32All of those suppositions that AMD CANNOT catch Nvidia remind me of all the flak on the internet before Ryzen launched. I read a lot of comments like "Ryzen will never catch Intel". Today I don't think anyone would state Intel's CPUs are summarily better than AMD's offerings (Unless you are a fanboy) . AMD has always been a company with great ideas but bad leadership (Just read the history of AMD (ARM & GLO FO).

Today's AMD GPU division is not the company that refreshed Tahiti for 5 or 6 generations. The evidence of this was Polaris that was just as fast as Tahiti with 1/2 the power draw (That was the biggest caveat to AMD cards). Vega was good but released during the mining craze that made it's price go through the roof this made it less of a proposition vs Nvidia.

The 5700XT is currently AMD's fastest card. Not that we can but if we look at Ryzen it started at 8 cores and 16 cores max with TR4 in 2017. It is 2020 and the core count has increased to 16 and 64 cores max for HEDT. That is in 3 years, much more than Intel has done in 10. I have confidence in Lisa Su and have not heard her say anything that has not come to pass. I am not saying it is definite but I do believe the propensity is high, besides we need Nvidia to bring prices back to where they were before the mining craze.

cucker tarlsonexcept nvidia is not intel

kapone32I am well aware of that but is Nvidia looking over their shoulder? WIth the release of the 2060KO it would seem so.

cucker tarlsonwell they didn't really do anything for 2080ti since launch,and it's more ridicoulously priced than any gpu I ever remembered
[/QUOTE

I believe AMD is doing the right thing by trying to get the midrange as those GPUs sell way more than high end. As far as i am concerned the 2080Ti, 2080S Super and retail 1080TIs are way too expensive. This is why I hope that RDNA2 or Big Navi do indeed compete at lower prices. I want to replace my Vega 64(s) but not at the cost of an entire decent build.

renz496OpenCL exist for a decade now. Back in 2009 they said give it two years. Two years and no one ever remember CUDA ever exist. Part of the issue is CUDA is fully controlled by nvidia. That in one aspect will speed up CUDA development and optimization on nvidia hardware. With OpenCL everyone needs to agree what spec to be accepted into the API and this where the major problem are. Because some feature might work nicely on one hardware but not others. And they will not want this to happen because that will only give certain IHV the comepetitive edge while leave out the others. So while they are disputing how the feature should be added to the spec closed API like CUDA already moving forward to implement next feature and improvement. For professional client they will favor the one that really works for them even if they really like open source. Because in pro world time is money. And second if only certain vendor going to be good with that open source API what the point? Because to get maximize percormance they will still going to be locked on that certian hardware when the point of using open source solution is not to locked themselves on one vendor only.

cucker tarlsonwell they didn't really do anything for 2080ti since launch,and it's more ridicoulously priced than any gpu I ever remembered

gamefoo21Titan V?

ratirtWith all do respect. I don't underestimate anything. The specs for RDNA2 are not there. Just as NV's aren't. I'm trying to be objective but it does not bode well with some members here.

ratirtQuestion. What are those specs? NAVI 2x? what is that mean?

ratirtBTW I can say same thing about NV. Just as our friend Tarlson said Ampere it is something totally different from Turing in terms of arch (not RDNA2 becuse that is just a refresh) Well, The AMPERE, I see RT cores, Cuda, Tensore. Is this something to justify new? It looks same to me as Turing in every way.

cucker tarlsontitan rtx ?

cucker tarlsonamd proved that even when they have they tools like new,more efficient architecture and a 7nm tsmc node,they still can't deliver in the high end.

kapone32I am well aware of that but is Nvidia looking over their shoulder? WIth the release of the 2060KO it would seem so.

medi01Do you actually believe what you type?

efikkanWe know of three Navi 2x chips so far; Navi 21, Navi 22 and Navi 23 from Linux driver patches. If there are more than these three chips coming, then will not be launching anytime soon.

efikkanI don't know exactly where you see these details, to my knowledge Nvidia haven't released anything public about "Ampere" so far.

But regardless, they've been using "Cuda cores" for many generations (since Tesla?), but their performance characteristics have changed radically over time. Just from Pascal to Turing there were major efficiency gains.

I don't know if Nvidia's next gen will be a small tweak of Turing or if it's another major architecture, but deriving this from vague rumors is utterly pointless. I've seen nothing substantive about Nvidia's next gen so far, and a pro-tip; whenever you see rumors pointing in every direction, it's usually an indication that "all of them" are just BS, it's a typical symptom of the information vacuum we're in right now. This is why I have recommended to be cautious about most "Ampere" or Navi 2x rumors so far. When we are getting closer to a real launch, we will start to see believable rumors pointing in the same direction.

As for Nvidia's next gen, you have to acknowledge that even if it's just a shrunk and tweaked Turing, it's going to cause some real challenge for AMD to compete with. Nvidia currently have a huge lead thanks to their architectural superiority, even with AMD having a node advantage. With the next gen that advantage will be gone for AMD.

cucker tarlsonlol,look who's talking :laugh:

cucker tarlsondo I believe ? yes,strongly.I mean you have to be delusional to think otherwise when amd's last high end competitor was fury x.

medi01Yeah, oh, wait, what? Jesus...


So you honestly believe that AMD, which was able to beat almighty Intel even at IPC while flooding market with cores, is not capable of producing 7nm GPU chips that are 500+ mm2 in size?
Like, freaking, for real?



GPU gap was never even remotely as big and bad as the gap we had in CPU market. Only in Raja's time, with modest R&D obviously focusing on Zen, AMD went "missing in action". But it's getting back, with entire set from 5700 to 5500 series looking good. Bigger chips are inevitably coming.