the54thvoidOkay then. You're entitled to that opinion. But don't further derail the thread with it.

It's actually a fact... And it would be nice if more people new a thing or two about power supplies. For example many people actually think that there are only a couple of PSU manufacturers, but there are actually hundreds.

-The_Mask-Seriously? Reporting someone for trolling because you don't like it what he is saying? Why not actually read something about power supplies first? The forum of jonnyGURU is good start. You may actually learn something. Well if you want anyway.

I've been a member of that forum for years and virtually all posts about seasonic units have been positive. There have been some posts about Seasonic still selling their group regulated S12 units and outsourcing their current S12iii units. There have been posts about coil whine issues in certain seasonic units and focus units having issues with Asus GTX 970 cards. That said most brands (and OEMs) have some issues and on a scale, seasonic is far closer to having few issues then most.

Also seasonic has a small marketing division and budget compared to Corsair, Cooler Master, Thermaltake, Antec, etc., Their reputation is well deserved for selling good units and making them for other brands. That said, it's not like they have some "secret sauce". Plenty of other OEMs make excellent units as well.

-The_Mask-I said that if you can let people believe that you are the best (or one of the best) manufacturers, but you are actually not and never have been, you marketing must be pretty good.

This mofo is splitting hairs and not supporting his opinion. F this noise.

EarthDogThis mofo is splitting hairs and not supporting his opinion. F this noise.

There is actually a JG forum member with the same user name but this guy sounds nothing like him.

I had a Seasonic fail on me and part of a company's renown is their service. They used to do a straight replace on faith (they sent the replacement before you RMA'd your own) but they got stung by too many fraudsters. So, I used an Escrow(?) set up and my RMA was fast as anything. I've been using the brand for...dunno how long now but my current model (2-3 years old) is whisper quiet and no issues.

I'm aware of other 'hidden' brands like Superflower but no matter what the guy says, Seasonic are good and deserve the reputation. And that's on my own brand experience.

LocutusHI wonder if such a 700w unit also works 24/7 without any air flow? I mean if its built in the bottom of the case, where nothing else generates airflow.

While Seasonic might be the best brand out there, I don't think their consumer products are rated for full load at 24/7.

Even these fanless PSUs have a lot of ventilation, so it should be obvious that they need some circulation. I don't know if convection will be enough, but I would surely have some fans there, otherwise it would take just a little dust buildup before the cooling is severely limited.

I generally wouldn't recommend fanless PSUs unless when required. I would prefer one with the hybrid fan mode, then you can get complete silence during idling, yet still the safety of cooling when needed. I don't think the noise from these fans are a problem unless you're in a special environment (like a lab).

-The_Mask-It's actually a fact... And it would be nice if more people new a thing or two about power supplies. For example many people actually think that there are only a couple of PSU manufacturers, but there are actually hundreds.

Provide your proof if you want people to take you seriously otherwise its a troll statement and thread ban will issued if you cannot back up what you are saying;)

EDIT: Reinstated to get his side

LocutusHI wonder if such a 700w unit also works 24/7 without any air flow? I mean if its built in the bottom of the case, where nothing else generates airflow.

efikkanWhile Seasonic might be the best brand out there, I don't think their consumer products are rated for full load at 24/7.

The better brands out there base their warranty on max cap and fan life under full load 24/7 at rated temp. I would place seasonic in that category.

-The_Mask-You're just proving my point. Their marketing is so effective that people don't even care about reading up on it. It's is so strong that I don't believe much can change the believe of people in this matter.

They've only been marketing the past few years, but have been around much longer. They are the only PSU company that actually makes their own supplies, and they use top notch components. All other companies use one of a handful of OEMs, including seasonic... Take at look at my ancient signature.... I been using seasonic since DFI made motherboards... you probably don't know who DFI are though...

DivergeThey've only been marketing the past few years, but have been around much longer.

...I recall seeing magazine ads for the Seasonic S12 units and they came out around 15 years ago so they have been advertising for a while.

DivergeThey are the only PSU company that actually makes their own supplies, and they use top notch components.

Like pens, pencils and construction paper?...because they don't make their own caps, fans, diodes, controllers, etc.,

DivergeAll other companies use one of a handful of OEMs, including seasonic...

True but only if your definition of "handful" is over 100

DivergeTake at look at my ancient signature.... I been using seasonic since DFI made motherboards... you probably don't know who DFI are though...

I think most people could enter dfi.com in their browser...

FYI, I've been using seasonic made PSU since PC Power & Cooling used them as an OEM which predates your S12. That just makes me old not an expert on them.

dirtyferretThere is actually a JG forum member with the same user name but this guy sounds nothing like him.

I'm a member of JG's Forums.

Seasonic PSUs are one of the few makes that are held in high esteem.

I've installed and used many Seasonic PSUs and I've never had an issue personally or with the ones I've installed for people.

I ran a SS 360W Bronze overloaded for years, and it never complained.

My 750W Gold had two 380Xs and a RX 560 hanging off it mining coins. Never coughed once...

I put it in the family box and I have a 750 Prime Titanium in my main system.

Also Seasonic makes the Silverstone fanless units, as far as I know.

The only issue I can think of is if you had 980 Ti on some early production Gold units, they would trip the overcurrent protection, because they'd demand an excessive inrush current.

the54thvoidActually, you're saying nothing except 'Seasonic are bad, Johnny Guru says so.' And you're doing nothing to back it up.

Contrary to your point, I can link this, or many other positive reviews:

www.anandtech.com/show/11252/the-seasonic-prime-titanium-power-supply-review

What's crazy is JG was the main reason I initially bought Seasonic. I believe Oklahoma wolf did most of the reviews and I lived in the forums as well to see follow ups to anything and everything related to psus. So for "the-mask" to say what he said... here must be trolling, because seasonic was highly praised.

dirtyferretAlso seasonic has a small marketing division and budget compared to Corsair, Cooler Master, Thermaltake, Antec, etc.,

That's certainly true, but their marketing is far more effective. One most forums Seasonic is considered the best PSU manufacturer. Many people also believe that there aren't many manufactures. But like I said before there are actually hundreds, Seasonic is only the best known. Why? Because like I said, they have the best marketing.

Marketing is not only advertising, there is a lot more to it. Advertising is only letting people know you exist. If you want people to believe that you're the best, advertising only doesn't help. Things that help for that is for example long warranty. Most people make the connection that longer warranty means higher quality. But there is actually no correlation. The only thing a manufacturer needs to do if you sell a mediocre product with long warranty is selling the product with a higher margin to pay for the higher RMA rate.

Another thing that works very well is, optimize the PSU for reviews. It's not that difficult for a manufacturer to optimize a PSU for the tests done by review site's. You can use sense wires at the end of a 24 pins ATX connector for feedback over the voltage, so that you can have perfect voltage stability with a static load from a load tester. You can use some small capacitors at the end of a PEG, EPS or ATX cable to get the ripple to a 10mV. But all this is for getting a higher rating in a review. In real PC use it won't make any difference as a PC doesn't generate a static load and doesn't care if the ripple is 10mV or like 30mV on the 12V without those caps. These are simple marketing driven optimizations.

But if you actually talk about the best manufacturers, brands like AcBel, Bestec, Chicony, Delta, Etasis, FSP, Flextronics, Great Wall, Huntkey, Lite-On, Murata and Zippy come to mind. Does this means that are always better then other PSU's from other manufacturers? Of course not. It means that they can do everything by them self. From making a design, to actually build the whole PSU and extensive quality control.

If you take a small manufacturer like Seasonic then they are simple not able to do stuff like that. They can not design every PSU by them self, they sometimes buy a design. They can also not manufacturer all their power supplies, they do a lot of out sourcing. Even testing the PSU is something they didn't do a lot with for example the Focus series. That's the reason is was actually known as a series with many problems. Some examples were; high ripple with some graphics cards which let to black screens or freezes. Too tight OCP which would let to unwanted shut downs. Fan with whining/clicking noise because to lose coil windings. Out of spec 12V ripple before shutting down. It's a side issue of carrying more about performance in reviews but les about real life problems.

Does this make Seasonic a bad manufacturer? No it does not. But please don't spam fut, just because you want to defend your brand. There are simple a lot of better brands.

Some more info: www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?16132-Corsair-TX850-80-Plus-Bronze-Certified-Power-Supply

bugOf course it's inaudible, he's worrying about noise that would be otherwise covered by the fan ;)

That review did extensive studies on coil whine as well

-The_Mask-Marketing is not only advertising, there is a lot more to it. Advertising is only letting people know you exist. If you want people to believe that you're the best, advertising only doesn't help. Things that help for that is for example long warranty. Most people make the connection that longer warranty means higher quality. But there is actually no correlation. The only thing a manufacturer needs to do if you sell a mediocre product with long warranty is selling the product with a higher margin to pay for the higher RMA rate.

There are products with 6-month warranty, products with 2-year warranty, products with 5-year warranty, products with 10 or 12-year warranty and products with lifetime warranty.
I am pretty sure the latter ones are with much higher quality and I do deeply recommend that you buy only such.

It's interesting that many retailers offer products that usually by the manufacturer come with longer guarantees, but the retailers artificially limit them to a 1-year period.
And then ask from the buyers super charges for extending those warranty periods.
These super charges are higher than if you look around for an item that genuinely goes with a 5-year warranty.

And yes, warranties are based on the technical specifications of the components.

dirtyferretThe better brands out there base their warranty on max cap and fan life under full load 24/7 at rated temp. I would place seasonic in that category.

if put in a case with good airflow, there shouldnt be any issues.

According to jonnyguru forms, Seasonic is a tier 3 PSU brand so make that of it what you will ... pics to clarify below

-The_Mask-That's certainly true, but their marketing is far more effective. One most forums Seasonic is considered the best PSU manufacturer. Many people also believe that there aren't many manufactures. But like I said before there are actually hundreds, Seasonic is only the best known. Why? Because like I said, they have the best marketing.

(SNIP)

Does this make Seasonic a bad manufacturer? No it does not. But please don't spam fut, just because you want to defend your brand. There are simple a lot of better brands.

Some more info: www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?16132-Corsair-TX850-80-Plus-Bronze-Certified-Power-Supply

You're making it pretty clear that you have some kind of agenda here and the more you type the more you're letting people know that you have no idea what you're talking about. You're just restating a lot of what you've read over at JohnnyGURU, as if none of us have ever spent time over there.

timta2You're making it pretty clear that you have some kind of agenda here

Sure, teaching some people here that life in their own bubble. But it seems that some been living in that bubble a bit to long...

ARFThere are products with 6-month warranty, products with 2-year warranty, products with 5-year warranty, products with 10 or 12-year warranty and products with lifetime warranty.
I am pretty sure the latter ones are with much higher quality and I do deeply recommend that you buy only such.

No like I explained before there is no correlation, it's purely a marketing driven decision. Nowadays it's a really important marketing bullet point. But if you for example compare a be quiet! Dark Power Pro 11 with 5 years warranty with a Seasonic Prime with 12 years warranty, the first one is the higher quality power supply. Over the years there have been a lot of higher quality power supplies, but back then manufacturers didn't use warranty as an important marketing point.

Fun fact: Seasonic Prime Ultra Gold and Platinum power supplies are actually Focus Plus Gold and Platinum based power supplies with an 135mm fan instead of the 120mm fan. But because the Prime Ultra has longer warranty the margin is bigger to pay for the 2 years extra warranty.

-The_Mask-Sure, teaching some people here that life in their own bubble. But it seems that some been living in that bubble a bit to long...

Parroting the same statement over and over again, while providing no proof is not teaching.
If anything, it sounds like you either don't fully comprehend what you're talking about or you're just trying to convince yourself.

-The_Mask-If you take a small manufacturer like Seasonic

:roll:
Ok, clueless it is

I'll place this as a general warning and escalate if needed. Seasonic are a good brand, nobody is arguing that point. @-The_Mask- is entitled to their view based on their knowledge. Others are entitled to theirs. Stop slinging little snipes about 'bubbles' and other terms to demean someone's view. Move on. Please.

-The_Mask-No like I explained before there is no correlation

There is correlation between the products' quality, Mean Time Between Failures and the length of the warranty.

Your explanation is lies and deceit.

This paper gives an overview of product reliability and warranty and discusses ... These often include a guaranteed MTBF as a part of the warranty contract.

www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0103-65132007000300003

Read to educate yourself but I guess it's just your financial interests, but you know you are wrong.

It's called Materials Science - the science that explains the use cases and behaviour of different materials under different circumstances.

bugParroting the same statement over and over again, while providing no proof is not teaching.

If you don't understand something you are allowed to ask for a better explanation.

:roll:
Ok, clueless it is

Well it is a fact actually. If you don't believe me then just read up about it. I mean I am not saying something a lot of people don't know already.

ARFThere is correlation between the products' quality, Mean Time Between Failures and the length of the warranty.

There is not actually as explained before. At least with consumer power supplies, the subject of this topic. Look for example at Corsair, every PSU has the same 100.000 hours MTBF, from Corsair VS350 till AX1600i. You really believe that the MTBF is the same with those two power supplies? Another example is the Prime Ultra Gold/Platinum power supplies which are based on Focus Gold and Platinum. The ones with the Prime Ultra name have a 150.000 hours MTBF rating, but the same ones under the Focus name have a 100.000 hours rating.

the54thvoidI'll place this as a general warning and escalate if needed. Seasonic are a good brand, nobody is arguing that point. @-The_Mask- is entitled to their view based on their knowledge. Others are entitled to theirs. Stop slinging little snipes about 'bubbles' and other terms to demean someone's view. Move on. Please.

There is a difference between an opinion and facts.

-The_Mask-If you don't understand something you are allowed to ask for a better explanation.

Fine, let's do this your way: why is Seasonic not a top PSU maker and who says they brainwash us with their marketing? Please explain and/or link to some reputable sources.

bugFine, let's do this your way: why is Seasonic not a top PSU maker and who says they brainwash us with their marketing? Please explain and/or link to some reputable sources.

Well that was explained here, with sources. What was unclear about my post there?