FrickWhy? How is Windows 10 significantly better today than in 2015?

As it was said above, 8 years, they much have fixed something all this time, right? In any case I had Windows 10 installed before I moved to AM4 platform and every upgrade of Windows 10 on my AM3 systems was also a risk of ending up with a broken windows installation. That was one of the reasons I didn't liked them. Also Windows 10 does need fast SSD. Where Windows 7 was working nicely even on a mechanic HDD, Windows 10 was a nightmare. Not to mention options that where easily accecible on Windows 7 and there wasn't on Windows 10, or they where totally inaccessible. Don't ask me specific, I don't remember. I only remember the frustration from Windows 10 so many times, that kept me using the same Windows 7 installation for 8 years. That installation gone from AM3+, to s1150, back to AM3+, to AM4 without a hiccup. All this time, I was using Windows 10 only on a clean partition, for financials and banking, clearly for security reasons. Today is my main system with Windows 11 only on my laptop and 7 on my old AM3+.

LucianF7 WILL NEVER DIE :D...I only jumped ship to Win10 as a primary with version 1903 , and that's because I had an abysmal experience with 7 on AM4 (Ryzen 5 1600+MSI B350), and cheap volume keys were only a thing for 10 by that point...Yet these last few days I somehow managed to coax a Windows 7 SSD (from my recently dead secondary) to play nice with my Ryzen 5 2600X + Aorus B450 + RX 580 4GB system. Granted, HDMI audio would not work no matter what and enabling the metrics overlay would cause a blue screen on game exit, but it was usable (latter issue is actually driver-related). Why even use 7 at this point? Simple: It seems there are games that flat-out don't work on 10 (Panzer Elite: Action) or run badly (Ryse: Son of Rome, Empire Earth, most DX8 and below games) and since I was smart/lucky enough to amass a disc collection when that was still viable I want to be sure I can still enjoy it; offline-only if necessary.

I had to gone Windows 10 when I bought the R5 4600G. On 7 I couldn't use the integrated graphics on the Ryzen. Some modded drivers where available only for older Ryzen CPUs with Ryzen graphics, like the Athlon 3000G.
From my perspective, Windows XP was the last OS where the user had FULL control. Windows 7 was the OS where the user had enough control and whatever automation was happening wasn't an annoyance. Windows 10 is the first OS where the only way to use it is to just bow your head and accept that MS is collecting a gazillion of info in the background, where Windows 11 is an OS like Windows 10, with even more telemetry, but with a number of essential features missing (can we choose "never combined" in the taskbar already, or is it still missing?) that we will get latter, because probably some psychologist told MS execs that they should remove some features that people used in 7 and 10 and start giving them back latter. I guess going from "I hate it" to "finally it works" is better from going from "meh" to "meh". Politicians do the same. They are elected for 4 years? They f__k the s__t out of their voters(sorry for the use of that sentence here, just trying to give a realistic picture) in the first 3 years and then start spreading money and pass public approved laws the last year to make voters like them again, just before the next elections. I think MS is doing the same with 11, i believe they did that with 10 also.

Minus InfinityBy 2025 Windows 12 will be out and 11 will become the new Vista, quickly forgotten.

Maybe. Maybe 11 is missing all these features for people to hate it and instead we see Windows 12 with all the missing features back, all the annoyances gone, to make as love Windows 12 from the first day. That way MS will be selling as Windows 10(TEN) again as a Windows 12.

PS Just remembered something that happened a couple of months ago. Something had gone bad on an NVMe SSD and Windows 10 was denying to me access on that partition. Windows 11 also was denying me access to that partition. Couldn't connected on 7 or XP because there was a small period where I didn't had a Windows 7 installation and also XP couldn't identify the NVMe SSD. You know how I got access to that partition? I created an image with Macrium Reflect and then had total access to my data through that image. Now isn't this a reason to TOTALLY HATE the newer OSes from Microsoft? Reastricting access to your own files? Windows XP. THE LAST OS WHERE THE USER HAD FULL CONTROL.

So one of my computers is running W10 21H2, why Windows update does not find 22H2?

NaitoWindows 10 is technically almost 8 years old. That's roughly the time between the release of XP and 7

I meant the PC - I could upgrade 15 years old PC from XP through Vista, 7 and 8 to 10. Now having a four years old PC I'm unable to upgrade to 11 because too old CPU, no TPM etc. In 2025 there will be millions of PCs with perfectly fine 7th gen or older CPU, no TPM, maybe no Secure Boot, and they won't be able to normally run supported version of Windows.

john_Maybe. Maybe 11 is missing all these features for people to hate it and instead we see Windows 12 with all the missing features back, all the annoyances gone, to make as love Windows 12 from the first day. That way MS will be selling as Windows 10(TEN) again as a Windows 12.

Not sure it'll work this time though. The Steam Deck already started chipping away at MSs' stranglehold and I myself actually tried Ubuntu Linux on an old laptop, and while I'm still learning it's perfectly usable for home tasks and even some gaming. Really old games (Win95/98 era) are a pain to get working even on 7 sometimes, so why not recover some user control while I'm at it? Add to that the fact that most modern games are literal political propaganda or garbage (sometimes both) and you'll realize that Microsoft is actually playing with fire at this point. Personally...I HOPE they get burned >:‑)

upgrading to win11 is such a pain in the ass, it tells me to enable secure boot and when I do it it doesn't detect my drives. turns out I have to convert my boot drive to GPT which is a pain and Microsoft support page doesn't even mention that. screw it, I will wait until I buy a new motherboard and CPU and another NVMe drive

i will not move to w11 until they get the UX working properly/polished and bring back vertical taskbar


tried to switch to w11 about 4 times already, last time i was like hmm there is some advantages but the headaches are they worth it? anyway, had to go back to w10 to test something and couldnt return to w11. So many things unfinished, alt+tab looks horrible, taskbar has column titles desaligned all over the place. UWP configuration menu is the most pedantic thing ive seen, and the worst part is that they even removed lots of blue hyperlink shortcuts to the legacy settings (w7) when they arent even providing the full range of settings in UWP.

this is just very few things that came to mind now, could be complaining for a few hours

I had actually installed Win11 on my 2010 Mac Pro for gaming and to just see what it's about, but Valve has done enough with Proton that I put popOS on it instead for this purpose.

Irony of ironies: a while back, I tried MS Game Pass and tried to play Halo MCC. It crashed at the splash screen over and over and over. It plays just fine on Steam on Linux/Proton. How's that for telemetry, MS?

Excellent news. No more bloated updates with unwanted changes and feature additions.

Vecix6So one of my computers is running W10 21H2, why Windows update does not find 22H2?

You can get it manually through the Windows Update Assistant

bonehead123^^THIS^^

They can have my W10Pro licenses when they can pry them from my cold, dead hands !

Who knows, with steam pushing linux, maybe 2025/2026 will be the year I migrate over. Using less and less things that are 'windows only' these days.............

LucianFNot sure it'll work this time though. The Steam Deck already started chipping away at MSs' stranglehold and I myself actually tried Ubuntu Linux on an old laptop, and while I'm still learning it's perfectly usable for home tasks and even some gaming. Really old games (Win95/98 era) are a pain to get working even on 7 sometimes, so why not recover some user control while I'm at it? Add to that the fact that most modern games are literal political propaganda or garbage (sometimes both) and you'll realize that Microsoft is actually playing with fire at this point. Personally...I HOPE they get burned >:‑)

There was a certainty in 2000 that Linux will kill eventually Windows. I mean, the year 2000, not the period 2000-2010. Today, after more than 20 years, a period of Vista, a period of Windows 8.x, many periods of anger towards Microsoft and their tactics, Linux is where? 1%, 2%, 4%? I am not talking about servers or consoles, and definitely not types of hardware that came after that period, like smartphones and tablets. Just desktops and laptops.

The only one today who can dethrone Microsoft and Windows, is Nvidia. No one else. Google never really tried to compete with Windows. ChromeOS is limited to certain tasks. Apple is in it's own close ecosystem. But, if Nvidia had gotten ARM, Microsoft could be having a big problem. Intel and AMD definitely. Especially seeing how far ahead is Nvidia in GPU performance and features, over AMD. I am saying it for many years that deep down their brains, at Nvidia they are probably thinking big, really BIG. FULL Nvidia systems. PCs, laptops, consoles, smartphones, you name it with ONLY Nvidia hardware and a Linux OS optimised for that hardware. Can they do it? Of course they can. Are they going to do it? Now that they can't control ARM, probably not in that extent.

john_There was a certainty in 2000 that Linux will kill eventually Windows. I mean, the year 2000, not the period 2000-2010. Today, after more than 20 years, a period of Vista, a period of Windows 8.x, many periods of anger towards Microsoft and their tactics, Linux is where? 1%, 2%, 4%? I am not talking about servers or consoles, and definitely not types of hardware that came after that period, like smartphones and tablets. Just desktops and laptops.

The only one today who can dethrone Microsoft and Windows, is Nvidia. No one else. Google never really tried to compete with Windows. ChromeOS is limited to certain tasks. Apple is in it's own close ecosystem. But, if Nvidia had gotten ARM, Microsoft could be having a big problem. Intel and AMD definitely. Especially seeing how far ahead is Nvidia in GPU performance and features, over AMD. I am saying it for many years that deep down their brains, at Nvidia they are probably thinking big, really BIG. FULL Nvidia systems. PCs, laptops, consoles, smartphones, you name it with ONLY Nvidia hardware and a Linux OS optimised for that hardware. Can they do it? Of course they can. Are they going to do it? Now that they can't control ARM, probably not in that extent.

Linux can never dethrone Windows because Windows and MS Office are too deeply entrenched in the business world where most PCs are in use. I remember when my company attempted to switch some 7,000 PCs over from Windows 7 to Windows 10 and it was a damn nightmare for the IT dept. Employees were barraging IT for help with everything imaginable. At the end of the day most people don't like change and switching to Linux would be a major change.

john_There was a certainty in 2000 that Linux will kill eventually Windows. I mean, the year 2000, not the period 2000-2010. Today, after more than 20 years, a period of Vista, a period of Windows 8.x, many periods of anger towards Microsoft and their tactics, Linux is where? 1%, 2%, 4%? I am not talking about servers or consoles, and definitely not types of hardware that came after that period, like smartphones and tablets. Just desktops and laptops.

The only one today who can dethrone Microsoft and Windows, is Nvidia. No one else. Google never really tried to compete with Windows. ChromeOS is limited to certain tasks. Apple is in its own close ecosystem. But, if Nvidia had gotten ARM, Microsoft could be having a big problem. Intel and AMD definitely. Especially seeing how far ahead is Nvidia in GPU performance and features, over AMD. I am saying it for many years that deep down their brains, at Nvidia they are probably thinking big, really BIG. FULL Nvidia systems. PCs, laptops, consoles, smartphones, you name it with ONLY Nvidia hardware and a Linux OS optimised for that hardware. Can they do it? Of course they can. Are they going to do it? Now that they can't control ARM, probably not in that extent.

That really depends on what you mean by dethroned, or even "killed." For most of the time from 2000-2010, if you wanted to get online and do anything, you needed a desktop machine, and odds are it was running Windows. Yearly performance updates were actually noticeable, making upgrading regularly worthwhile. However, outside the workplace, Windows was dethroned from its dominant position in the 2010-2020 decade. Gone are the days when most households had multiple PCs for the family. Now the average household PC is likely old and barely used, and everyone in that household has a phone or tablet (iPad), and probably a game console or two. Playstation and Android run Linux, and that's a few billion devices. No, that's not the desktop, but that's Linux serving billions of users everyday, for hours and hours on end. In schools, Chromebooks are cheap, so it's a common feature (right or wrong is another conversation).

No, the Windows PC isn't irrelevant, but it's no longer a central feature of the everyday household. There might always be a place for a Windows machine, but it's becoming more and more a place where most people just do their work. It tells you a lot that when we all went into lockdown, PC sales went through the roof. Now that we're free to move about again, PC sales fell off a cliff. Folks got what they needed, and it's probably going to take that PC failing before they replace it. Most will buy a smartphone every couple years, but the PC is going to be expected to run for a long time, and it's not going to be the primary device anyone chooses to sit in front of. Yes, there are gamers and gaming PCs, but consoles sell very well, too. In 2010, I couldn't do without Windows at home. Now I don't need it at all.

friocasathey can't even make a unified control panel

Omg, right? I thought windows 10 was bad, but since I got a computer with 11 on it a few months ago that thing is fucking atrocious! There are innumerous settings that are barely accessible without knowing specifically were they are or a workaround to get there, if I had the option I would absolutely put windows 10 on that thing, I don't understand how they ship something like that, poor IT departments who have to deal with this shit.

Minus InfinityBy 2025 Windows 12 will be out and 11 will become the new Vista, quickly forgotten.

It's fun to meme on it but I otherwise wasn't so pessimistic on it until I used it and what a terrible experience it is, if you have the option stay on windows 10, I think it's actually much worse than vista. Vista was buggy and required better or newer hardware, windows 11 is just bad and unfinished.

64KLinux can never dethrone Windows because Windows and MS Office are too deeply entrenched in the business world where most PCs are in use. I remember when my company attempted to switch some 7,000 PCs over from Windows 7 to Windows 10 and it was a damn nightmare for the IT dept. Employees were barraging IT for help with everything imaginable. At the end of the day most people don't like change and switching to Linux would be a major change.

I'm not sure if it was Germany or France or some other european country who also tried something similar on public services with the same result, people just couldn't use it.

All of my Win 10 PC's are running Enterprise LTSC 2019. It's good to know they'll have support for a while yet. MS needs to make an OS that looks like 7 with support for today's hardware and the lack of bloat 10 LTSC has.

You remember IE? How Windows was wrapped around it? Classic Edge? How it's Chromium now? Or WOW64? Seeing how MS doesn't know how to get profit from Windows, in a decade or so we may be actually using Windows on Linux kernel, with some emulation layers, courtesy of Microsoft.

installing win11 was a big pain but I did it, I had to move the games from my NVMe drive to external hard drive and then back after installing windows though. luckily I only had less than 200 GB stored on it so it didn't take very very long just very long. and now I have 2 systems on my PC so I can slowly start migrating to win11. and I got pissed by the programs that promise free convertion from MBR to GPT but turns out this feature is locked behind paywall, I'm not paying $60 for software I'm going to use once when I can just get 1TB NVMe drive for 2/3rd the price

Always funny to see the rage posts about Windows 10 creates. Especially when people can't read.

mb194dcLTSC 2019 extended support end is 2029 and LTSC 21h2 in 2027. First one ideal for any business. Second one home use.

LTSC for home use? In 99% cases that equals piracy.

At least with Windows 10 you tell it to do something and it does it. Windows 11 you tell it to do something then it thinks and says would you not perfer this over that. You select that and then 30 days later it select this without asking you. It like telling a Telsa yes take me the apple store then one day it takes you to Microsoft store instead.

I have Win 11 Pro on two machines the other day it made me change my password would not accept no for an answer. Well that's all great and stuff but that password change now I cannot access my network drives. /slap MS

As of course Now Microsoft has intergrated Edge into everything. I love bing search though its the most stupidest search in a browser I ever seen. I search for like a Motherboard model and bios and first site is some ad or another ad I look through the entire search nothing found. then I tell edge to goto www.google.com search the same thing and BANG first site there it is.

john_By 2025 Windows 11 could be as good as Windows 10. The same as with Windows 10 that it took a few years to be a somewhat acceptable replacement for Windows 7.

But windows 11 is still not balanced with the security intelligence proposed in the fTPM /TPM protocols to be launched in the market.
A lot of boldness from these people!
It's killing the end user. It is so secure that not even the holder can enter...

We don't want no changes anyway...

BSim500Thank God for that. After all these years consumer Windows 10 users will finally enjoy the same feature Enterprise LTSC users have been enjoying all along - to just have security patches without being plagued by 'feature' updates...

Indeed, this announcement has me tempted to switch from LTSC now. I see it as good news, finally they stabilised the platform for consumers.