Friday, January 26th 2024

Apple announces changes to iOS, Safari, and the App Store in the European Union

Apple today announced changes to iOS, Safari, and the App Store impacting developers' apps in the European Union (EU) to comply with the Digital Markets Act (DMA). The changes include more than 600 new APIs, expanded app analytics, functionality for alternative browser engines, and options for processing app payments and distributing iOS apps. Across every change, Apple is introducing new safeguards that reduce—but don't eliminate—new risks the DMA poses to EU users. With these steps, Apple will continue to deliver the best, most secure experience possible for EU users.

The new options for processing payments and downloading apps on iOS open new avenues for malware, fraud and scams, illicit and harmful content, and other privacy and security threats. That's why Apple is introducing protections—including Notarization for iOS apps, an authorization for marketplace developers, and disclosures on alternative payments—to reduce risks and deliver the best, most secure experience possible for users in the EU. Even with these safeguards in place, many risks remain.
Developers can learn about these changes on the Apple Developer Support page and can begin testing new capabilities today in the iOS 17.4 beta. The new capabilities will become available to users in the 27 EU countries beginning in March 2024.

"The changes we're announcing today comply with the Digital Markets Act's requirements in the European Union, while helping to protect EU users from the unavoidable increased privacy and security threats this regulation brings. Our priority remains creating the best, most secure possible experience for our users in the EU and around the world," said Phil Schiller, Apple Fellow. "Developers can now learn about the new tools and terms available for alternative app distribution and alternative payment processing, new capabilities for alternative browser engines and contactless payments, and more. Importantly, developers can choose to remain on the same business terms in place today if they prefer."

The changes for EU apps reflect the European Commission's designation of iOS, Safari, and the App Store as "core platform services" under the Digital Markets Act. In March, Apple will share new resources to help EU users understand the changes they can expect. That includes guidance to help EU users navigate complexities the DMA's changes bring—including a less intuitive user experience—and best practices for approaching new risks associated with downloading apps and processing payments outside of the App Store.

Available for developers' apps around the world, Apple also announced new options for streaming games, along with more than 50 forthcoming reports in areas like engagement, commerce, app usage, and more.

Changes to iOS
In the EU, Apple is making a number of changes to iOS to comply with the DMA. For developers, those changes include new options for distributing apps. The coming changes to iOS in the EU include:
  • New options for distributing iOS apps from alternative app marketplaces — including new APIs and tools that enable developers to offer their iOS apps for download from alternative app marketplaces.
  • New framework and APIs for creating alternative app marketplaces — enabling marketplace developers to install apps and manage updates on behalf of other developers from their dedicated marketplace app.
  • New frameworks and APIs for alternative browser engines — enabling developers to use browser engines, other than WebKit, for browser apps and apps with in-app browsing experiences.
  • Interoperability request form — where developers can submit additional requests for interoperability with iPhone and iOS hardware and software features.
As announced by the European Commission, Apple is also sharing DMA-compliant changes impacting contactless payments. That includes new APIs enabling developers to use NFC technology in their banking and wallet apps throughout the European Economic Area. And in the EU, Apple is introducing new controls that allow users to select a third-party contactless payment app—or an alternative app marketplace—as their default.

Inevitably, the new options for developers' EU apps create new risks to Apple users and their devices. Apple can't eliminate those risks, but within the DMA's constraints, the company will take steps to reduce them. These safeguards will be in place when users download iOS 17.4 or later, beginning in March, and include:
  • Notarization for iOS apps — a baseline review that applies to all apps, regardless of their distribution channel, focused on platform integrity and protecting users. Notarization involves a combination of automated checks and human review.
  • App installation sheets — that use information from the Notarization process to provide at-a-glance descriptions of apps and their functionality before download, including the developer, screenshots, and other essential information.
  • Authorization for marketplace developers — to ensure marketplace developers commit to ongoing requirements that help protect users and developers.
  • Additional malware protections — that prevent iOS apps from launching if they're found to contain malware after being installed to a user's device.
These protections—including Notarization for iOS apps, and authorization for marketplace developers—help reduce some of the privacy and security risks to iOS users in the EU. That includes threats like malware or malicious code, and risks of installing apps that misrepresent their functionality or the responsible developer.

However, Apple has less ability to address other risks—including apps that contain scams, fraud, and abuse, or that expose users to illicit, objectionable, or harmful content. In addition, apps that use alternative browser engines—other than Apple's WebKit—may negatively affect the user experience, including impacts to system performance and battery life.

Within the DMA's constraints, Apple is committed to protecting the privacy, security, and quality of the iOS user experience in the EU as much as possible. For instance, App Tracking Transparency will continue to work with apps distributed outside of the App Store — asking a user's permission before a developer tracks their data across apps or websites. However, the DMA's requirements mean that App Store features — including Family Purchase Sharing and Ask to Buy — will not be compatible with apps downloaded from outside of the App Store.

When these changes come into effect in March, Apple will share more detailed resources explaining the options available to users — including best practices for protecting their privacy and security.

Changes to Safari
Today, iOS users already have the ability to set a third-party web browser—other than Safari—as their default. Reflecting the DMA's requirements, Apple is also introducing a new choice screen that will surface when users first open Safari in iOS 17.4 or later. That screen will prompt EU users to choose a default browser from a list of options.

This change is a result of the DMA's requirements, and means that EU users will be confronted with a list of default browsers before they have the opportunity to understand the options available to them. The screen also interrupts EU users' experience the first time they open Safari intending to navigate to a webpage.

Changes to the App Store
On the App Store, Apple is sharing a number of changes for developers with apps in the EU, affecting apps across Apple's operating systems—including iOS, iPadOS, macOS, watchOS, and tvOS. The changes also include new disclosures informing EU users of the risks associated with using alternatives to the App Store's secure payment processing.

For developers, those changes include:
  • New options for using payment service providers (PSPs) — within a developer's app to process payments for digital goods and services.
  • New options for processing payments via link-out — where users can complete a transaction for digital goods and services on the developer's external website. Developers can also inform EU users of promotions, discounts, and other deals available outside of their apps.
  • Business planning tools — for developers to estimate fees and understand metrics associated with Apple's new business terms for apps in the EU.
The changes also include new steps to protect and inform EU users, including:
  • App Store product page labels — that inform users when an app they're downloading uses alternative payment processing.
  • In-app disclosure sheets — that let users know when they are no longer transacting with Apple, and when a developer is directing them to transact using an alternative payment processor.
  • New App Review processes — to verify that developers accurately communicate information about transactions that use alternative payment processors.
  • Expanded data portability on Apple's Data & Privacy site — where EU users can retrieve new data about their usage of the App Store and export it to an authorized third party.
For apps that use alternative payment processing, Apple will not be able to issue refunds, and will have less ability to support customers encountering issues, scams, or fraud. Helpful App Store features—like Report a Problem, Family Sharing, and Ask to Buy—will also not reflect these transactions. Users may have to share their payment information with additional parties, creating more opportunities for bad actors to steal sensitive financial information. And on the App Store, users' purchase history and subscription management will only reflect transactions made using the App Store's In-App Purchase system.

New Business Terms for Apps in the EU
Also today, Apple is sharing new business terms available for developers' apps in the European Union. Developers can choose to adopt these new business terms, or stay on Apple's existing terms. Developers must adopt the new business terms for EU apps to use the new capabilities for alternative distribution or alternative payment processing.

The new business terms for apps in the EU are necessary to support the DMA's requirements for alternative distribution and payment processing. That includes a fee structure that reflects the many ways Apple creates value for developers' businesses—including distribution and discovery on the App Store, the App Store's secure payment processing, Apple's trusted and secure mobile platform, and all the tools and technology to build and share innovative apps with users around the world.
Developers operating under either set of business terms can continue to use the App Store's secure payment processing and share their apps on the App Store in the EU. And both sets of business terms reflect Apple's long-standing work to make the app ecosystem the best opportunity for all developers.

Developers operating under the new business terms will have the option to distribute their iOS apps from the App Store and/or alternative app marketplaces. These developers can also choose to use alternative payment processors in their EU apps on the App Store, across Apple's operating systems.

The new business terms for iOS apps in the EU have three elements:
  • Reduced commission — iOS apps on the App Store will pay a reduced commission of either 10 percent (for the vast majority of developers, and subscriptions following their first year) or 17 percent on transactions for digital goods and services.
  • Payment processing fee — iOS apps on the App Store can use the App Store's payment processing for an additional 3 percent fee. Developers can use a payment service provider within their app or link users to their website to process payments for no additional fee to Apple.
  • Core Technology Fee — iOS apps distributed from the App Store and/or an alternative app marketplace will pay €0.50 for each first annual install per year over a 1 million threshold.
For apps on iPadOS, macOS, watchOS, and tvOS in the EU, developers who process payments using a PSP or by linking out to their website will get a 3 percent discount on the commission they owe to Apple.
Apple is also sharing a fee calculator tool and new reports to help developers estimate the potential impact of the new business terms on their app businesses. Developers can learn more about the changes for EU apps on a new Apple Developer Support page and can begin testing these capabilities today in the iOS 17.4 beta.
Source: Apple
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96 Comments on Apple announces changes to iOS, Safari, and the App Store in the European Union

#76
remixedcat
trsttteOh wow, I just found out something, the iOS changes are iOS only and don't apply to iPadOS. Things like third party payments or links to other payment methods are relative to the App Store so they apply to both systems, but 3rd party stores, notarization, browser selection and independence from using the god awfull safari webkit are only available on iOS! You just couldn't make this shit up

www.macrumors.com/2024/01/26/apple-eu-app-ecosystem-tidbits/
This makes them have the fragmentation they hate lol
Posted on Reply
#77
Prima.Vera
Dr. Dro... Google needs to revisit its strategy and lagdroid phone makers need to innovate, look at the last 6 or 7 Galaxy S phones and tell me if you're not BORED of them. I am.
Funniest post ever, considering the irony that for the past 5-6 years the Apple phones basically look and perform almost IDENTICALLY, haha.
Really, the Apple cultists/fanboys are a different breed. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Posted on Reply
#78
bug
Prima.VeraFunniest post ever, considering the irony that for the past 5-6 years the Apple phones basically look and perform almost IDENTICALLY, haha.
Really, the Apple cultists/fanboys are a different breed. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Yeah, my sister actually ordered a cover for the wrong iPhone model, she actually forgot it wasn't the same model anymore. True story.
Posted on Reply
#79
trsttte
Prima.VeraFunniest post ever, considering the irony that for the past 5-6 years the Apple phones basically look and perform almost IDENTICALLY, haha.
Really, the Apple cultists/fanboys are a different breed. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
I believe the point was - and as shown by the video he shared later - that android is getting stale and with the way prices have increased even past Apple prices it openned the doors wide open for iphones to just gobble up a big share of the market. Why spend 1000$ on a galaxy s when you can buy a "higher status" iPhone for 800$? That's has been an undeniable problem in recent years.
Posted on Reply
#80
bug
trsttteI believe the point was - and as shown by the video he shared later - that android is getting stale and with the way prices have increased even past Apple prices it openned the doors wide open for iphones to just gobble up a big share of the market. Why spend 1000$ on a galaxy s when you can buy a "higher status" iPhone for 800$? That's has been an undeniable problem in recent years.
Prices for some Android phones have crossed into ridiculous. But whenever I needed a new phone, I could get something solid for 300€. Sometimes less. (It's not for everybody, you really have to know what you're looking for.)
Posted on Reply
#81
RayneYoruka
freeagentIf you want a second rate OS, sure :)
Nah I used to daily run IOS a decade ago. Not like I'm missing anything anyway
Posted on Reply
#82
Dr. Dro
Prima.VeraFunniest post ever, considering the irony that for the past 5-6 years the Apple phones basically look and perform almost IDENTICALLY, haha.
Really, the Apple cultists/fanboys are a different breed. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Granted they're all Scamsung phones maybe that's the problem :laugh:
Posted on Reply
#83
Prima.Vera
By the way; Why are the Apple cultist compare iPhones with Android?? Really. One is a phone brand, the other is an mobile operating system.
They should compare the Apple phone with Samsung, HTC, Honor, Xiaomi, Sony, Nothing Phone, Motorola, Asus, Nokia, etc. There are hundreds of phones out there from worst to best. The only thing they have in common is the undercore OS which is Android OS. However, even this OS is custom build for each different vendor, so comparing the speed and functionality of an Android OS on a Samsung Galaxy A03 (50$) vs Galaxy S24 Ultra (1200$), is ridiculous and silly to say the least.
This is what the cultist never get.
Posted on Reply
#84
Dr. Dro
Prima.VeraBy the way; Why are the Apple cultist compare iPhones with Android?? Really. One is a phone brand, the other is an mobile operating system.
They should compare the Apple phone with Samsung, HTC, Honor, Xiaomi, Sony, Nothing Phone, Motorola, etc. There are hundreds of phones out there from worst to best. The only thing they have in common is the undercore OS which is Android OS. However, even this OS is custom build for each different vendor, so comparing the speed and functionality of an Android OS on a Samsung Galaxy A03 (50$) vs Galaxy S24 Ultra (1200$), is ridiculous and silly to say the least.
This is what the cultist never get.
I think it's the other way around.

Since Apple's devices tend to be a status symbol and tend to be on the pricier side, many inherently see iPhone owners as snobbish and spoiled, not to mention that a lot of people derive intense pleasure from "look my Xiaomi does everything your Apple does at a third of the price!", and then perceive people who opt into simply buying the iPhone as people with "limited intellect" and/or "attention seekers", so to speak, buying into a brand either because 1. "they don't know any better and were oversold on a device they'll never need or use to its full potential" or 2. "You literally paid $800 extra for an apple behind your phone just so you could show off lol what a loser".

As of late, there are no truly low-end Apple phones either. Even the lowest cost device they currently offer, the 3rd generation iPhone SE (2022) has an A15 Bionic processor which has the equivalent processing power of a Snapdragon 8+ Gen 1, and this really made a LOT of Android phone owners miffed as to why does that "lame iPhone gets all that and my SUPER COOL and COST EFFICIENT Xiaomi Poco has some Mediakek chip" (and I'm speaking figuratively, I know that since the Dimensity series became a thing, Mediatek isn't lame anymore).

Think of Android fans about the same as AMD GPU fans. It's a point of pride that they're "not sheep", "aren't funding <supposedly evil megacorp Crapple/Ngreedia> or somesuch" and "have more flexibility, anything else be damned, who cares about an ecosystem or user experience anyway. I'll just make my own!"

It's pure clubism and it'll probably never go away, just like the AMD vs. Nvidia thing.
Posted on Reply
#85
bug
Prima.VeraBy the way; Why are the Apple cultist compare iPhones with Android?? Really. One is a phone brand, the other is an mobile operating system.
I don't think most of them can make that distinction.
Posted on Reply
#86
Prima.Vera
Dr. DroAs of late, there are no truly low-end Apple phones either. Even the lowest cost device they currently offer, the 3rd generation iPhone SE (2022) has an A15 Bionic processor which has the equivalent processing power of a Snapdragon 8+ Gen 1, and this really made a LOT of Android phone owners miffed as to why does that "lame iPhone gets all that and my SUPER COOL and COST EFFICIENT Xiaomi Poco has some Mediakek chip" (and I'm speaking figuratively, I know that since the Dimensity series became a thing, Mediatek isn't lame anymore).
This is wrong and also have no context. A 3rd generation iPhone SE is still around 429$ for a crappy 64GB storage and $579(!!!) for just 256GB (www.apple.com/shop/buy-iphone/iphone-se)
Of course the 50$ phones perform worst than a 580$ phone.
Now the question is, a smart phone, with Android OS, on 580$ price range is better, or worst than the Apple iPhone SE phone? ;)
Posted on Reply
#87
Dr. Dro
Prima.VeraThis is wrong and also have no context. A 3rd generation iPhone SE is still around 429$ for a crappy 64GB storage and $579(!!!) for just 256GB (www.apple.com/shop/buy-iphone/iphone-se)
Of course the 50$ phones perform worst that a 580$ phone.
Now the question is, a smart phone, with Android OS, on 580$ price range is better, or worst than the Apple iPhone SE phone? ;)
I don't think anyone's ever comparing any iPhone to a Galaxy A03 Core, man. The SE is Apple's cheapest and considered to be its entry level device, so yeah, they don't have low-end phones anymore, since you can't really call a $400+ phone packing an A15 Bionic a low-end phone. This is priced at the midrange. This SE is a spruced up iPhone 8 and it has been kept around pretty much due to high consumer demand for this form factor, even though it is (other than the updated SoC) a super dated phone by practically every metric at this point.

But that also has its strengths, for example the screen resolution to SoC power ratio on the SE is through the roof, makes it an excellent gaming phone, and the iOS versions of games tend to run circles on the Android versions. Apple's also supporting their devices for a very long time, even the iPhone 6s and 7 received OS updates as recently as October last year. Samsung has long since abandoned the Galaxy S6, and even my S10+ runs an OS about a year older than my 6s+.

Otherwise, I guess you're probably going to be satisfied with a Galaxy A54?
Posted on Reply
#88
trsttte
Dr. Droit has been kept around pretty much due to high consumer demand for this form factor, even though it is (other than the updated SoC) a super dated phone by practically every metric at this point
Small correction there, not demand for the form factor, demand for the price point. The ancient form factor is simply Apple spitting in it's clients faces. They only updated the SoC because it's cheaper to produce more of the newer one instead of keeping the older models in prodution ;)
Posted on Reply
#89
R0H1T
Dr. DroApple's also supporting their devices for a very long time, even the iPhone 6s and 7 received OS updates as recently as October last year.
You mean security updates? They're not really adding anything major/minor feature wise so it should be counted just as that! You could argue the app updates on Play store do something similar, also most Android phones generally ship with the latest OS version(14) and aren't usually sold 2-3 years down the line as you'd see with some iPhone models.
Posted on Reply
#90
Dr. Dro
R0H1TYou mean security updates? They're not really adding anything major/minor feature wise so it should be counted just as that! You could argue the app updates on Play store do something similar, also most Android phones generally ship with the latest OS version(14) and aren't usually sold 2-3 years down the line as you'd see with some iPhone models.
The last security update my S10+ received was in January of 2023, and it hasn't been updated ever since. The security patch is a full year out of date by now. And of course, forget about downloading the firmware blob from Samsung themselves :)

www.sammobile.com/samsung/galaxy-s10-plus/firmware/SM-G975F/ZTO/download/G975FXXSGHWA3/1718586/

iOS 15.8.1 for the 6s and 7 was released last week, 22 January 2024

support.apple.com/en-us/HT201222

S10+ had Android 9 when I got it and was abandoned on Android 12, this is actually a remarkable run for an Android device, most get one or end up beached at the software they launched with (for example, my brother's Moto G200 was never updated from Android 12 at all despite being a capable Snapdragon 888+ device)

The 6s was released in 2015 and has received iOS: 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 and its incremental upgrades, and is still actively patched by Apple

As for software compatibility? Well, just like most apps still run on Android 7 or newer, most still run on iOS 15. I think the only two that I found that no longer run are the Microsoft Office suite and the Netflix app that are asking for iOS 16, but all other streaming services (including Disney and Star+) work. No other compatibility problems with literally anything that I have ever tried, and all of them work extremely well for an almost 9 year old device.
trsttteSmall correction there, not demand for the form factor, demand for the price point. The ancient form factor is simply Apple spitting in it's clients faces. They only updated the SoC because it's cheaper to produce more of the newer one instead of keeping the older models in prodution ;)
Believe it or not, some people have an active preference for the Touch ID-equipped, no nonsense bar phones without the fluff. Price factors into it, yes, but remember, the original SE for example had the iPhone 6s's innards on the 5s's chassis, and for many years it was practically the best compact phone you could buy, in many ways, still is. When Apple retired it, a lot of people, myself included, got pretty upset about it, which is why I have the S10+... they took about a year after I got it to backtrack on killing off the SE and releasing the 2nd gen 2020 model that's identical to the 2022 one (again, iPhone 8 chassis) but had an older A13 chipset instead. I definitely wasn't alone:

techcrunch.com/2018/09/14/the-iphone-se-was-the-best-phone-apple-ever-made-and-now-its-dead/
Posted on Reply
#91
R0H1T
Dr. DroThe last security update my S10+ received was in January of 2023, and it hasn't been updated ever since.
There's Google play system updates which are separate from OS/security updates, besides the app updates from the developers. They should provide better level of protection against common malware or security vulnerabilities. It's updated fairly regularly though you would need to be on Android 10 or above to get them.

Posted on Reply
#92
Dr. Dro
R0H1TThere's Google play system updates which are separate from OS/security updates, besides the app updates from the developers. They should provide better level of protection against common malware or security vulnerabilities. It's updated fairly regularly though you would need to be on Android 10 or above to get them.

Yeah I know about them... My phone doesn't receive them anymore


Posted on Reply
#93
R0H1T
Slightly odd, I thought Samsung would be doing more than that! I don't have anything comparable to test it against because my oldest phone is what 6-7 years old now. Are these region specific as well like folks in Europe/US would be on newer (PS)updates?
Posted on Reply
#94
Dr. Dro
R0H1TSlightly odd, I thought Samsung would be doing more than that! I don't have anything comparable to test it against because my oldest phone is what 6-7 years old now. Are these region specific as well like folks in Europe/US would be on newer (PS)updates?
I'm afraid it's not an obscure model, it's just the standard global S10+ (SM-G975F/DS), Exynos 9820 variant. Actual garbage phone (it aged horribly compared to the Snapdragon 855 variant) but I've gone back to dailying it after I sold my Z Flip 3 (thing gave me the heebie jeebies, every time I closed it, it made a sound like it was gonna snap: issue with the PET film that Samsung applies on the foldable screen, which gets off and feels like it'll rip the OLED in half, that and I had it serviced twice in 6 months because of this) and picked up the 6s+ recently just to toy around with it as I felt nostalgic about the days I had my SE, and found that I still really enjoyed using it.
Posted on Reply
#95
chrcoluk
RahnakIt absolutely is a wonderful thing. Apple mobile devices are the only (relevant in size) ecosystem that is locked down. Are Macbooks less secure or worse because you can install software from anywhere? Not really. And this would be an optional thing. You don't have to go outside the App Store if you don't want/need to. But it would be nice to have that option, like you have on Android.

Like bug said, this is just Apple fighting tooth and nail to protect its cash cow and this malicious compliance is absolutely disgusting. I hope the EU doesn't let it slide.

Everyone cheered when the EU forced MS to stop shoving IE down everyone's throat, everyone should be cheering on them forcing the end of the lockdown on iOS/iPadOS as well.
I dont see store competition in the same way and I also feel browser pushing isnt much better than before either ironically.

If I was a regulator, I would be asking the likes of Epic, what benefit would you be offering consumers to justify this extra competition, I would consider all of the following as not benefits. (primarily because developers are not consumers)

Higher margins for developers.
Higher margins for Epic.
Choice of store without any advantage of using that store. (illusion of choice)
Exclusivity benefits to developers.

The problem with competition, is when it isnt there for a good reason, when its there just for the sake of been there, things can go downhill. I have seen it in multiple different sectors, and the Epic store is a shining example of how it can hurt consumers.

--

The reason I am sceptic over if the EU achieved anything on web browsers.

Use google without chrome, and it pushes you to grab chrome.
Use bing without edge and it pushes you to grab edge.
Use bing to search for stuff and MSN has dominance of page 1, youtube videos are embedded into a microsoft videos page (wtf).
Bing has got so bad lately, if you back out of a page into it, it will inject a box into the part of the page you at to push sponsored links in your face and AI chat boxes also get injected in, and Microsoft wonder why Bing isnt as popular.

If the EU want to do something useful forbid these nonsensical temporary "not now" UI options, and force devs to change to "no" or "never" instead as well as making block cookie choices permanent, not a temporary token thats forgotten in a few weeks.
Posted on Reply
#96
The Norwegian Drone Pilot
stimpy88Android fanbots can now get used to the fact that some of the "best" features of Android are coming to iOS!

Spyware
Viruses
Malware
Un-installable Apps
Apps that cause OS instability
Apps that open the device to 3rd parties
Apps that send private data to undisclosed 3rd parties, even after they have been removed

Hey, it's my device, and I should be able to do what I like with it, unlike crappy Apple...

I really hope that these "features" are disabled by default. It won't help stupid, but it will help many of us that don't run our business website from our phones, hack the planet from our mobile, and don't download Torrents all day long on it either, change the 10-year-old TV's channel, or any other amazing things Android users say iPhones can't do that Android can and that they would die without.

I love it when crusty, clueless and corrupt politicians think they know best and force it on everyone. Thanks EU!
Jeeeeeeezes, talk about talking nonsense. Your post reminds me of this video under.


You are pretty much spot on to what he says Apple users are in the video. Specifically from what he says at 5 mins and 25 seconds and out in the video.
Posted on Reply
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