theres no way that the 4870 cost 250$ to make, that'd would make it the most expensive gpu to produce since the voodoo5. try ~ 100$ with the gtx280 ~ 180$ the 4870x2 will likely be close to 180$ as well. remember you're paying inflated prices from a retailer theres no way the retailer would make any money if the 300$ card cost them 250$ (which would be 0$ profit for ati which simply doesn't happen in business, well sony doesn't count as they're 7 time the size of nvidia right now which make it 14 times the size of amd/ati they have alot more money and can afford it)

it wouldn't be lucrative for either party if a gpu cost so much. likely the ati aib's are selling the 4870's to retailers at around 200$ leaving the retailers 100$ profit per card. leaving ati a slim profit margine (as they likely sold it to the aib for ~ 150$, but nowhere near as slim as you're talking. still 50$ profit per card for ati doesn't exactly give them much but as darkmatter said it's likely more about market share on the 4800 series.

cost of the middleman, also don't forget shipping from the maker to the retailer, and then shipping from the retailer to you.
Its obvious the price to make the cards is so cheap due to the labor overseas, thats one problem with these companies, they try to use outsourcing to get ahead, well that just leaves everyone poor because it doesn't put hands in jobs of people who need it the most, its like this money has to circulate in order for the economy to work, if its not circulating then thats when we go into recession/inflation and then a economical crash.

yogurt_21theres no way that the 4870 cost 250$ to make, that'd would make it the most expensive gpu to produce since the voodoo5. try ~ 100$ with the gtx280 ~ 180$ the 4870x2 will likely be close to 180$ as well. remember you're paying inflated prices from a retailer theres no way the retailer would make any money if the 300$ card cost them 250$ (which would be 0$ profit for ati which simply doesn't happen in business, well sony doesn't count as they're 7 time the size of nvidia right now which make it 14 times the size of amd/ati they have alot more money and can afford it)

it wouldn't be lucrative for either party if a gpu cost so much. likely the ati aib's are selling the 4870's to retailers at around 200$ leaving the retailers 100$ profit per card. leaving ati a slim profit margine (as they likely sold it to the aib for ~ 150$, but nowhere near as slim as you're talking. still 50$ profit per card for ati doesn't exactly give them much but as darkmatter said it's likely more about market share on the 4800 series.

candle_86the only reason its not is AMD decided to undercut the market in a desprate bid to gain marketshare. How much money does AMD make off the 48xx cards honestly?

Id guess there chip costs about 130-150 to tap out, PCB costs about 40-50, ram costs about 60-70. So at worst case where looking @ 220 to produce the whole card, most likly about 180 to produce it for the 4850 and prolly around 250 because of GDDR5 for the 4870 so do they really make alot of money with there cards, this was a bid to gain marketshare not money

Numbers are way off.

nvidia will bounce back, they always do.

imo they were rushed to get the GT200 out to match RV7xx, but it doesnt mean they dont have anything else up their sleeve.

not to mention this simple fact remains, if you want the BEST performance out there, especially with high res and AA, its got to be GTX280 SLi

candle_86you call 800SP's efficient, its mere shader power is why they are winning complex and simple shaders total 320 effective shaders for the R770 while the GT200 is 240shaders, its brute force is why they won

Thats like saying a Dual Core is using brute force to compete with a single core chip.
Pentium 4s, for example, were very inefficient, and ran at very high clock speeds. Pentium D's were even worse...
Core 2 Duos came along at greatly reduced clock speed, but they were much more efficient.
What I'm thinking is that this is what ATI did for its SPUs; reduced the clock speed, increased the number, and increased efficiency.
I'd still like to see how nVidia manages its G300 core...

Outsourcing is actually good for the economy and the people. A country should specialize in what it's good at producing in order to maximize its profit potential. If we can get people in other countries to do unskilled labor for us, then we can specialize in more skilled labor. You don't lose jobs when outsourcing, you just free up labor for more skilled jobs.

If we try to limit our reduce outsourcing, it will damage the economy. Since there will always be a demand for jobs like clothes sewing and tech support over the phone in countries that don't outsource, it will tie up a certain amount of labor. By outsourcing, you reduce the demand for such jobs and therefore provide an incentive for citizens to learn the skills to do more complex jobs like bio-engineering.

flashstarOutsourcing is actually good for the economy and the people. A country should specialize in what it's good at producing in order to maximize its profit potential. If we can get people in other countries to do unskilled labor for us, then we can specialize in more skilled labor. You don't lose jobs when outsourcing, you just free up labor for more skilled jobs.

If we try to limit our reduce outsourcing, it will damage the economy. Since there will always be a demand for jobs like clothes sewing and tech support over the phone in countries that don't outsource, it will tie up a certain amount of labor. By outsourcing, you reduce the demand for such jobs and therefore provide an incentive for citizens to learn the skills to do more complex jobs like bio-engineering.

Well look at the economy, its a combination of things that have brought us down, but it seems those who just get here get all the help, say money to start businesses where a person who is down on their luck who intends on returning to work doesnt get squat. Sorry for the hijack but i think those who just enter the US should be forced to do 2 years of Military Service, to look at the Picture We should bring more jobs back because outsourcing does cause everyone to be poor, eventually the dollar will be useless because only the assholes in oil and other White Collar High Rollers will have the Money, eventually there will be no Middle-Working Class. End Rant

someone understands the issue, what if i want to work consturction, what if i want to be a telemarketer ya know, i dont wanna want to be a bio engineer its not what i enjoy doing, saying that outsourcing is good is like saying murder is fine

I didn't say that you had to be a bio-engineer. My point is that as we progress technologically jobs will cease to exist. Economically, outsourcing is a positive thing. You might feel bad for people who have to learn new jobs because their jobs went overseas, but economics does not care about feelings. It's a gradual process, but eventually higher level jobs will become lower-level and lower-level jobs will be phased out. Tough luck, but if you want to make money you need to do a job that has income. Filling people's cars with gas when everyone goes to hydrogen power is just plain stupid. It doesn't matter how much you like the job.

Wow, I love how every forum completely goes off track :laugh: By the way do you know that there are more jobs insourced then outsourced every year. I don;t know if you guys have noticed the amount of international companies like Toyota and Italian, Arab, and Japanese entrepreneurs who are investing in this country. For example, the Chrysler Tower is now owned by a wealthy firm from Abu Dhabi now and many countries are starting to invest in our ports. The reason why our economy is so crappy has nothing to do with outsourcing. The blame lies in the hands of incompetent government representatives and a stupid Federal Reserve bank. Not to mention greedy company executives who don't want to pay taxes. Thats my two cents.

that is so true m8

I actually think Nvidia are scared

flashstarOutsourcing is actually good for the economy and the people. A country should specialize in what it's good at producing in order to maximize its profit potential. If we can get people in other countries to do unskilled labor for us, then we can specialize in more skilled labor. You don't lose jobs when outsourcing, you just free up labor for more skilled jobs.

If we try to limit our reduce outsourcing, it will damage the economy. Since there will always be a demand for jobs like clothes sewing and tech support over the phone in countries that don't outsource, it will tie up a certain amount of labor. By outsourcing, you reduce the demand for such jobs and therefore provide an incentive for citizens to learn the skills to do more complex jobs like bio-engineering.

Sure..

It also results in a loss of sovereignty and a butt-load of companies and the government becoming entangled in foreign economics.

No sorry, that never helps an economy.

flashstarI didn't say that you had to be a bio-engineer. My point is that as we progress technologically jobs will cease to exist. Economically, outsourcing is a positive thing. You might feel bad for people who have to learn new jobs because their jobs went overseas, but economics does not care about feelings. It's a gradual process, but eventually higher level jobs will become lower-level and lower-level jobs will be phased out. Tough luck, but if you want to make money you need to do a job that has income. Filling people's cars with gas when everyone goes to hydrogen power is just plain stupid. It doesn't matter how much you like the job.

Saying outsourcing is good is like saying the GTX280 was a good buy at $650 :nutkick: (That's the best I can do w/o going off-topic :p )

yogurt_21theres no way that the 4870 cost 250$ to make, that'd would make it the most expensive gpu to produce since the voodoo5. try ~ 100$ with the gtx280 ~ 180$ the 4870x2 will likely be close to 180$ as well. remember you're paying inflated prices from a retailer theres no way the retailer would make any money if the 300$ card cost them 250$ (which would be 0$ profit for ati which simply doesn't happen in business, well sony doesn't count as they're 7 time the size of nvidia right now which make it 14 times the size of amd/ati they have alot more money and can afford it)

it wouldn't be lucrative for either party if a gpu cost so much. likely the ati aib's are selling the 4870's to retailers at around 200$ leaving the retailers 100$ profit per card. leaving ati a slim profit margine (as they likely sold it to the aib for ~ 150$, but nowhere near as slim as you're talking. still 50$ profit per card for ati doesn't exactly give them much but as darkmatter said it's likely more about market share on the 4800 series.

Hey now leave my Voodoo5 out of this ; P

You try being in those peoples shoes and your attitude will change.

flashstarI didn't say that you had to be a bio-engineer. My point is that as we progress technologically jobs will cease to exist. Economically, outsourcing is a positive thing. You might feel bad for people who have to learn new jobs because their jobs went overseas, but economics does not care about feelings. It's a gradual process, but eventually higher level jobs will become lower-level and lower-level jobs will be phased out. Tough luck, but if you want to make money you need to do a job that has income. Filling people's cars with gas when everyone goes to hydrogen power is just plain stupid. It doesn't matter how much you like the job.

eidairaman1You try being in those peoples shoes and your attitude will change.

I feel bad for those people, but that isn't my point. The free market isn't always friendly to you but it is the best way to run a country. Life is tough, but you can't penalize people who want to get ahead by helping those who don't.

Some relevant TR quotes:

"Far and away the best prize that life has to offer is the chance to work hard at work worth doing."

"Get action. Seize the moment. Man was never intended to become an oyster."

"I don't pity any man who does hard work worth doing. I admire him. I pity the creature who does not work, at whichever end of the social scale he may regard himself as being."


I'm not sure why I always get into these conversations but I don't want to lead the topic off too far. My final opinion on this topic is that I find it hard that the GT300 would come out so soon with such specs but I wouldn't put it past Nvidia to do so.

I knew there was a reason why i didnt upgrade my 8800GTS...... I think i am going to wait until DX11 is announced and the cards for it to stop appearing and maybe then i will upgrade my GFX card.