• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Device IDs of Intel's USB 4.0 Host Controller and Strategy to Phase Out Type-A Revealed

btarunr

Editor & Senior Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 9, 2007
Messages
47,164 (7.57/day)
Location
Hyderabad, India
System Name RBMK-1000
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5700G
Motherboard ASUS ROG Strix B450-E Gaming
Cooling DeepCool Gammax L240 V2
Memory 2x 8GB G.Skill Sniper X
Video Card(s) Palit GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER GameRock
Storage Western Digital Black NVMe 512GB
Display(s) BenQ 1440p 60 Hz 27-inch
Case Corsair Carbide 100R
Audio Device(s) ASUS SupremeFX S1220A
Power Supply Cooler Master MWE Gold 650W
Mouse ASUS ROG Strix Impact
Keyboard Gamdias Hermes E2
Software Windows 11 Pro
Device IDs of Intel's upcoming line of standalone USB 4.0 host controllers leaked to the web, courtesy Hardware Leaks (@_rogame). The controller possibly comes in three variants, bearing device IDs 0x9A1B, 0x9A1D, and 0x9A13. The alleged Intel confidential document screengrab speaks of USB 4.0 and USB 3.2 support (no mention of USB 2.0/1.1), and USB Power Delivery 3.0.

With USB 4.0, the USB-IF (USB Implementers Forum, or the special interest group behind USB), appears to want to standardize the USB type-C connector, eventually phasing out the type-A connector. To that effect, the document leaves out mention of USB 2.0/1.1 backwards compatibility. USB 4.0 debuts with an interface bandwidth of 40 Gbps, or 8 times that of USB 3.0, or over 80 times that of USB 2.0.



View at TechPowerUp Main Site
 
Joined
Jan 31, 2011
Messages
238 (0.05/day)
Processor 3700X
Motherboard X570 TUF Plus
Cooling U12
Memory 32GB 3600MHz
Video Card(s) eVGA GTX970
Storage 512GB 970 Pro
Case CM 500L vertical
None of Intel's TB3 controllers have USB 2.0/1.1 either (despite also being USB 3.x compatible). USB 3.x controllers need USB 2.0 controllers to get USB2.0, too. Usually, that comes from the southbridge or via a different controller (sometimes, a different controller on the same die). They are different systems that happen to usually share the same port (though rarely, if ever, the same lines - only exception I can think of is Nvidia's likely moribund VirtualLink).

So on the Intel TB3 controller example (along with many other examples of external USB 3.x chips), the USB 2.0 lines are taken from the southbridge and passed right on through.
 
Joined
Jul 10, 2017
Messages
2,671 (1.00/day)
When will they deploy fiber-only? And some phat copper where power delivery is also needed.
 
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Messages
21,400 (3.41/day)
System Name Pioneer
Processor Ryzen R9 9950X
Motherboard GIGABYTE Aorus Elite X670 AX
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 + A whole lotta Sunon and Corsair Maglev blower fans...
Memory 64GB (4x 16GB) G.Skill Flare X5 @ DDR5-6000 CL30
Video Card(s) XFX RX 7900 XTX Speedster Merc 310
Storage Intel 905p Optane 960GB boot, +2x Crucial P5 Plus 2TB PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSDs
Display(s) 55" LG 55" B9 OLED 4K Display
Case Thermaltake Core X31
Audio Device(s) TOSLINK->Schiit Modi MB->Asgard 2 DAC Amp->AKG Pro K712 Headphones or HDMI->B9 OLED
Power Supply FSP Hydro Ti Pro 850W
Mouse Logitech G305 Lightspeed Wireless
Keyboard WASD Code v3 with Cherry Green keyswitches + PBT DS keycaps
Software Gentoo Linux x64 / Windows 11 Enterprise IoT 2024
Joined
Oct 28, 2012
Messages
1,184 (0.27/day)
Processor AMD Ryzen 3700x
Motherboard asus ROG Strix B-350I Gaming
Cooling Deepcool LS520 SE
Memory crucial ballistix 32Gb DDR4
Video Card(s) RTX 3070 FE
Storage WD sn550 1To/WD ssd sata 1To /WD black sn750 1To/Seagate 2To/WD book 4 To back-up
Display(s) LG GL850
Case Dan A4 H2O
Audio Device(s) sennheiser HD58X
Power Supply Corsair SF600
Mouse MX master 3
Keyboard Master Key Mx
Software win 11 pro
Apple trash to peak. Wth is this nonsense. Very sad if true.
Motherboards are probably still going to use a few classic USB A 3.0 for a while just for compatibility sake. But going foward, USB-C will be the new standard. You don't miss serial ports do you ?
 
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
14,048 (3.84/day)
Location
Sunshine Coast
System Name Lenovo ThinkCentre
Processor AMD 5650GE
Motherboard Lenovo
Memory 32 GB DDR4
Display(s) AOC 24" Freesync 1m.s. 75Hz
Mouse Lenovo
Keyboard Lenovo
Software W11 Pro 64 bit
You don't miss serial ports do you ?
Only on work related computers that need them.
Lack of the Serial Port makes it a pain to upgrade.
 
Joined
Jan 8, 2017
Messages
9,386 (3.29/day)
System Name Good enough
Processor AMD Ryzen R9 7900 - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora Edge
Motherboard ASRock B650 Pro RS
Cooling 2x 360mm NexXxoS ST30 X-Flow, 1x 360mm NexXxoS ST30, 1x 240mm NexXxoS ST30
Memory 32GB - FURY Beast RGB 5600 Mhz
Video Card(s) Sapphire RX 7900 XT - Alphacool Eisblock Aurora
Storage 1x Kingston KC3000 1TB 1x Kingston A2000 1TB, 1x Samsung 850 EVO 250GB , 1x Samsung 860 EVO 500GB
Display(s) LG UltraGear 32GN650-B + 4K Samsung TV
Case Phanteks NV7
Power Supply GPS-750C
Meanwhile motherboards are still shipped with USB 2.0 connections, which is literally a 20 years old specification. How about we get rid of those before they start shipping boards with 4 different USB standards.
 
Joined
Jun 29, 2018
Messages
534 (0.23/day)
@btarunr: I hate to sound like a broken record, but the proper name is: USB4 and not "USB 4.0" as stated in the official announcment by USB-IF.

Meanwhile motherboards are still shipped with USB 2.0 connections, which is literally a 20 years old specification. How about we get rid of those before they start shipping boards with 4 different USB standards.

The problem is as @jeremyshaw wrote: not all USB 3.x connectors are capable of supporting 2.0/1.1 devices. For example the new USB-C motherboard connectors for cases usually do not. Keyboards, mice and generally USB HID devices are 2.0/1.1.
 
Joined
Jun 29, 2018
Messages
534 (0.23/day)
Who cares. USB-IF really screwed up themselves with the whole USB 3.2 2x2 blablabla. Why would we respect them now by following their new naming?
I say screw them.
It's not about respecting USB-IF, but about reporting integrity of TPU.
 
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Messages
21,400 (3.41/day)
System Name Pioneer
Processor Ryzen R9 9950X
Motherboard GIGABYTE Aorus Elite X670 AX
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 + A whole lotta Sunon and Corsair Maglev blower fans...
Memory 64GB (4x 16GB) G.Skill Flare X5 @ DDR5-6000 CL30
Video Card(s) XFX RX 7900 XTX Speedster Merc 310
Storage Intel 905p Optane 960GB boot, +2x Crucial P5 Plus 2TB PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSDs
Display(s) 55" LG 55" B9 OLED 4K Display
Case Thermaltake Core X31
Audio Device(s) TOSLINK->Schiit Modi MB->Asgard 2 DAC Amp->AKG Pro K712 Headphones or HDMI->B9 OLED
Power Supply FSP Hydro Ti Pro 850W
Mouse Logitech G305 Lightspeed Wireless
Keyboard WASD Code v3 with Cherry Green keyswitches + PBT DS keycaps
Software Gentoo Linux x64 / Windows 11 Enterprise IoT 2024
Who cares. USB-IF really screwed up themselves with the whole USB 3.2 2x2 blablabla. Why would we respect them now by following their new naming?
I say screw them.

We are supposedly journalists around here, so I would think they'd care.
 
Joined
Jan 8, 2017
Messages
9,386 (3.29/day)
System Name Good enough
Processor AMD Ryzen R9 7900 - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora Edge
Motherboard ASRock B650 Pro RS
Cooling 2x 360mm NexXxoS ST30 X-Flow, 1x 360mm NexXxoS ST30, 1x 240mm NexXxoS ST30
Memory 32GB - FURY Beast RGB 5600 Mhz
Video Card(s) Sapphire RX 7900 XT - Alphacool Eisblock Aurora
Storage 1x Kingston KC3000 1TB 1x Kingston A2000 1TB, 1x Samsung 850 EVO 250GB , 1x Samsung 860 EVO 500GB
Display(s) LG UltraGear 32GN650-B + 4K Samsung TV
Case Phanteks NV7
Power Supply GPS-750C
The problem is as @jeremyshaw wrote: not all USB 3.x connectors are capable of supporting 2.0/1.1 devices. For example the new USB-C motherboard connectors for cases usually do not. Keyboards, mice and generally USB HID devices are 2.0/1.1.

You have to move on at some point.
 
Joined
Jan 8, 2017
Messages
9,386 (3.29/day)
System Name Good enough
Processor AMD Ryzen R9 7900 - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora Edge
Motherboard ASRock B650 Pro RS
Cooling 2x 360mm NexXxoS ST30 X-Flow, 1x 360mm NexXxoS ST30, 1x 240mm NexXxoS ST30
Memory 32GB - FURY Beast RGB 5600 Mhz
Video Card(s) Sapphire RX 7900 XT - Alphacool Eisblock Aurora
Storage 1x Kingston KC3000 1TB 1x Kingston A2000 1TB, 1x Samsung 850 EVO 250GB , 1x Samsung 860 EVO 500GB
Display(s) LG UltraGear 32GN650-B + 4K Samsung TV
Case Phanteks NV7
Power Supply GPS-750C
Move on? Are there any keyboards or mice that support USB 3.x (as in only 3.x with no 2.0/1.1)?

They don't because the boards still support USB 2/1.1, see the problem ? Yes, you have to move on, if manufactures start releasing boards with just USB 3 you'll see devices supporting only USB 3 as well.
 
Joined
Feb 18, 2005
Messages
5,752 (0.80/day)
Location
Ikenai borderline!
System Name Firelance.
Processor Threadripper 3960X
Motherboard ROG Strix TRX40-E Gaming
Cooling IceGem 360 + 6x Arctic Cooling P12
Memory 8x 16GB Patriot Viper DDR4-3200 CL16
Video Card(s) MSI GeForce RTX 4060 Ti Ventus 2X OC
Storage 2TB WD SN850X (boot), 4TB Crucial P3 (data)
Display(s) 3x AOC Q32E2N (32" 2560x1440 75Hz)
Case Enthoo Pro II Server Edition (Closed Panel) + 6 fans
Power Supply Fractal Design Ion+ 2 Platinum 760W
Mouse Logitech G602
Keyboard Razer Pro Type Ultra
Software Windows 10 Professional x64
Only on work related computers that need them.
Lack of the Serial Port makes it a pain to upgrade.

WTF are you upgrading via COM in the year 2020...

The problem is as @jeremyshaw wrote: not all USB 3.x connectors are capable of supporting 2.0/1.1 devices. For example the new USB-C motherboard connectors for cases usually do not. Keyboards, mice and generally USB HID devices are 2.0/1.1.

Incorrect: as jeremy noted, it's the controller(s) behind those connectors that determine what version(s) of USB devices are supported, or not.

That may sound nitpicky, but it's critical: consider the case where you plug a USB 1.1 Type-A device into a USB 3.2 Type-C connector (via a Type-A to Type-C adapter). The data from the device will still be received by whatever controller is at the other end of the connector's cable - if that controller is a USB 3.x controller, it'll say "I dunno what to do with this" and pass the data down the chain to the next controller - which happens to be the USB 2.0/1.1 controller, which does know what to do. So there's a little more latency, but your legacy USB devices are still going to work.

Important to note here is that the USB 2.0/1.1 controller I mentioned is actually just part of the CPU or PCH. There are no discrete USB 1.1 or 2.0 controller chips (except on add-in cards), as these versions of the interface are so well-known, small (in terms of die area) and simple to implement, that every new PC has implementations of these versions baked in. This is unlikely to change within the next decade - if ever.

tl;dr don't worry about your USB 2.0/1.1 devices no longer working in new computers. They will continue to work, probably until the end of time, thanks to Type-A to Type-C adapters.
 

Frick

Fishfaced Nincompoop
Joined
Feb 27, 2006
Messages
19,421 (2.85/day)
Location
Piteå
System Name White DJ in Detroit
Processor Ryzen 5 5600
Motherboard Asrock B450M-HDV
Cooling Be Quiet! Pure Rock 2
Memory 2 x 16GB Kingston Fury 3400mhz
Video Card(s) XFX 6950XT Speedster MERC 319
Storage Kingston A400 240GB | WD Black SN750 2TB |WD Blue 1TB x 2 | Toshiba P300 2TB | Seagate Expansion 8TB
Display(s) Samsung U32J590U 4K + BenQ GL2450HT 1080p
Case Fractal Design Define R4
Audio Device(s) Line6 UX1 + Sony MDR-10RC, Nektar SE61 keyboard
Power Supply Corsair RM850x v3
Mouse Logitech G602
Keyboard Cherry MX Board 1.0 TKL Brown
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores Rimworld 4K ready!
WTF are you upgrading via COM in the year 2020...

Firmware/OS on various industrial/electrical units. Lots of things really if you're in the right field.
 
Joined
Apr 8, 2008
Messages
338 (0.06/day)
System Name Xajel Main
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X
Motherboard ASRock X570M Steel Legened
Cooling Corsair H100i PRO
Memory G.Skill DDR4 3600 32GB (2x16GB)
Video Card(s) ZOTAC GAMING GeForce RTX 3080 Ti AMP Holo
Storage (OS) Gigabyte AORUS NVMe Gen4 1TB + (Personal) WD Black SN850X 2TB + (Store) WD 8TB HDD
Display(s) LG 38WN95C Ultrawide 3840x1600 144Hz
Case Cooler Master CM690 III
Audio Device(s) Built-in Audio + Yamaha SR-C20 Soundbar
Power Supply Thermaltake 750W
Mouse Logitech MK710 Combo
Keyboard Logitech MK710 Combo (M705)
Software Windows 11 Pro
Does apple even use USB-C? I don't think they do.

Dude, Apple uses Type-C in everything except the iPhone and some of it's accessories, plus the wireless keyboard and mouse they have. Those uses lighting to charge.

iMac, MacBooks, iPad, uses Type-C exclusively and Mac Pro has both Type-C and Type-A.
 
Joined
Feb 20, 2019
Messages
8,179 (3.93/day)
System Name Bragging Rights
Processor Atom Z3735F 1.33GHz
Motherboard It has no markings but it's green
Cooling No, it's a 2.2W processor
Memory 2GB DDR3L-1333
Video Card(s) Gen7 Intel HD (4EU @ 311MHz)
Storage 32GB eMMC and 128GB Sandisk Extreme U3
Display(s) 10" IPS 1280x800 60Hz
Case Veddha T2
Audio Device(s) Apparently, yes
Power Supply Samsung 18W 5V fast-charger
Mouse MX Anywhere 2
Keyboard Logitech MX Keys (not Cherry MX at all)
VR HMD Samsung Oddyssey, not that I'd plug it into this though....
Software W10 21H1, barely
Benchmark Scores I once clocked a Celeron-300A to 564MHz on an Abit BE6 and it scored over 9000.
I predict that new USB-A devices will still be in production by 2030, and whilst USB-C may be more popular, it will still not be the dominant connector for USB because those muppets at the USB-IF can't standardise anything.
 
Joined
Jun 29, 2018
Messages
534 (0.23/day)
That may sound nitpicky, but it's critical: consider the case where you plug a USB 1.1 Type-A device into a USB 3.2 Type-C connector (via a Type-A to Type-C adapter). The data from the device will still be received by whatever controller is at the other end of the connector's cable - if that controller is a USB 3.x controller, it'll say "I dunno what to do with this" and pass the data down the chain to the next controller - which happens to be the USB 2.0/1.1 controller, which does know what to do. So there's a little more latency, but your legacy USB devices are still going to work.

This only happens if the USB 3.x controller can actually pass it down the chain. This is not always the case, for example this USB 3.1 A-Key to 3.0 converter cable requires a separate connection to a USB 2.0/1.1 controller:

usb_3.1_2.0.jpg


Important to note here is that the USB 2.0/1.1 controller I mentioned is actually just part of the CPU or PCH. There are no discrete USB 1.1 or 2.0 controller chips (except on add-in cards), as these versions of the interface are so well-known, small (in terms of die area) and simple to implement, that every new PC has implementations of these versions baked in. This is unlikely to change within the next decade - if ever.

tl;dr don't worry about your USB 2.0/1.1 devices no longer working in new computers. They will continue to work, probably until the end of time, thanks to Type-A to Type-C adapters.

While this probably will be the case it's not guaranteed by the USB 3.x specc.

Edit: curious, you can't inline WebP on this forum?
 

Attachments

  • usb_3.1_2.0.webp
    24.1 KB · Views: 228
Joined
Jul 10, 2017
Messages
2,671 (1.00/day)
Meanwhile motherboards are still shipped with USB 2.0 connections, which is literally a 20 years old specification. How about we get rid of those before they start shipping boards with 4 different USB standards.
I'd rather have an old USB2.0 than some unpatchable Thunderbolt.
 
Joined
Feb 20, 2019
Messages
8,179 (3.93/day)
System Name Bragging Rights
Processor Atom Z3735F 1.33GHz
Motherboard It has no markings but it's green
Cooling No, it's a 2.2W processor
Memory 2GB DDR3L-1333
Video Card(s) Gen7 Intel HD (4EU @ 311MHz)
Storage 32GB eMMC and 128GB Sandisk Extreme U3
Display(s) 10" IPS 1280x800 60Hz
Case Veddha T2
Audio Device(s) Apparently, yes
Power Supply Samsung 18W 5V fast-charger
Mouse MX Anywhere 2
Keyboard Logitech MX Keys (not Cherry MX at all)
VR HMD Samsung Oddyssey, not that I'd plug it into this though....
Software W10 21H1, barely
Benchmark Scores I once clocked a Celeron-300A to 564MHz on an Abit BE6 and it scored over 9000.
Meanwhile motherboards are still shipped with USB 2.0 connections, which is literally a 25 years old specification. How about we get rid of those before they start shipping boards with 4 different USB standards.
FTFY.

I bought Windows 98 and a Microsoft Natural Keyboard Elite in, uh..., 1998 I guess - and it was my second USB keyboard and by then Plug-and-Pray had finally been refined enough to earn its official moniker. I'm guessing USB was already out for Windows95's official plug-and-play launch hype 25 years ago.
 
Top