High resolution + High pixel density club

lemonadesoda · Jan 14, 2013

This thread is for people who like or are enthusiastic about high resolution panels and high pixel density. The sort of thing that IBM brought to us in 2001 with their T210, T220 and T221 TFTs.

The sort of thing that Apple (and their OEMs) have brought to us more recently with their retina panels.

The sort of thing we are still waiting for in the PC world. Especially on the desktop. Grrr.

This thread is not for naysayers who say VGA is good enough, and that Windows cannot scale. Innovation needs to start somewhere... and don't expect it to start with MS. I once saw someone post that more than 150 dpi serves no purpose. Tell that to the printer manufacturers! I'm sure they would love to sell us 150dpi printers again! I once heard someone say 1080 is enough for gaming... but don't forget to turn on AA to make it look better! LOL.

Do you use cleartype? If you do, then you are already trying to get a higher dot per inch than your display gives native. Using shader-tricks to smooth the jaggies. With a higher resolution screen+higher pixel density, things just look lots better :pimp:

I will not be satisfied until I can have a A4/Letter PDF on the screen scaled 1:1 and clearly legible, as good as a printout. THAT is my benchmark. 300dpi minimum, meaning 4K or better screens in a desktop format (ie less than 24"). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_resolution

++++++++++++++++++

Please post any links to interesting high res, high pixel density news. Or indeed reviews of said products. I think this is going to be a painful thread until products start hitting the market and high pixel density (outside smartphones) starts taking off. Anyway, let's hope it comes sooner rather than later.

lemonadesoda · Jan 14, 2013

Not desktop, but high resolution on laptop: http://www.pcworld.com/article/2024391/acer-takes-on-apple-with-retina-class-laptop-displays.html

4K screens are finally coming to the (upper end) consumer. Hopefully this will mean panels will also be made at a size suitable for the desktop. Give it 12 months. http://www.techhive.com/article/202...-2013-the-fantasy-and-the-reality-video-.html

Frick · Jan 14, 2013

lemonadesoda said:
4K screens are finally coming to the (upper end) consumer. Hopefully this will mean panels will also be made at a size suitable for the desktop. Give it 12 months. http://www.techhive.com/article/202...-2013-the-fantasy-and-the-reality-video-.html

I've said exactly the same thing about 1440/1600 for more than a year now. :laugh:

lemonadesoda · Jan 14, 2013

Frick said:
I've said exactly the same thing about 1440/1600 for more than a year now.

Yes, you and me too. This is taking too long!

erixx · Jan 14, 2013

This is one of the few things that will make this new year interesting!

Of the typical set: Computer(SSD),keyboard,mouse=more or less stabilized performance

What part would REALLY improve the user experience: big HD monitors.

LAN_deRf_HA · Jan 14, 2013

I'm a bit concerned about 4k. Microsoft has made zero progress on scaling issues. 1440p at 27" is just about perfect as far as size and sharpness goes, but with 4k things either shrink or you have to use some buggy scaling system. The PC world is not at all prepared for this transition.

lemonadesoda · Jan 14, 2013

No naysaying. We don't want problems, we want solutions!

(yes, Windows is not the best scaler, but it does work quite well when applications use the standard windows API... the problem is independent programmers who like to create funky "skins". The Asian BIOS firmware/driver/utility community is the worst!)

I've not had a problem with font and windows scaling with Windows OS, fonts, inbuilt apps, MS Office or Adobe products.

Anyway, in a worst case situation, just set Windows to 1280x1024 to drive a panel at 2560x2048. Then switch the resolution only when using applications that conform to windows scaling mechanism.

xBruce88x · Jan 14, 2013

LAN_deRf_HA said:
I'm a bit concerned about 4k. Microsoft has made zero progress on scaling issues. 1440p at 27" is just about perfect as far as size and sharpness goes, but with 4k things either shrink or you have to use some buggy scaling system. The PC world is not at all prepared for this transition.

This is my issue with high res so far... scaling. I don't need a thousand icons to fit on my desktop background... I'd like to have the few icons, and text in general still appear the same size as say... 1280x1024 on a much higher res screen but look smoother due to the extra density.

I finally gave up on such hi res displays (for now) due to dpi scaling... however its not as big an issue with web browsers since you can zoom and the gpu tends to filter this nice and smooth like when you pinch to zoom on an android or apple phone.

Right now i'm using a Sony Trenitron KV-34HS510 as my main display. It'll do 1080i, but right now its set to 720p. It's good enough for me, so far. had to compensate for an overscan issue though but not so bad.

edit: @lemonadesoda... yea i agree about the 3rd party issue as well.

Easy Rhino · Jan 14, 2013

microsoft has never been a leader in the industry. ever. apple is the only corporation willing to have a vision and take a gamble on new technology. apple leads the way and supports the brightest minds in IT.

cdawall · Jan 14, 2013

Easy Rhino said:
microsoft has never been a leader in the industry. ever. apple is the only corporation willing to have a vision and take a gamble on new technology. apple leads the way and supports the brightest minds in IT.

Now I wouldn't go that far, but they are doing quite well with high res monitors something M$ sucks at. It is only a matter of time progress is progress.

It does frustrate me that I can get an Ipad with a better resolution than most computer monitors :shadedshu I have been wanting 3840x2160 for a while now.

Easy Rhino · Jan 14, 2013

cdawall said:
Now I wouldn't go that far

please, apple leads the mobile market with innovate solutions that M$ is JUST getting into. also, M$ servers are poop versions of unix varients who continually push hardware to its limits. it took M$ way to long to get into virtualization. pathetic.

cdawall · Jan 14, 2013

Easy Rhino said:
please, apple leads the mobile market with innovate solutions that M$ is JUST getting into. also, M$ servers are poop versions of unix varients who continually push hardware to its limits. it took M$ way to long to get into virtualization. pathetic.

No Apple takes products that already exist and push the marketing of them. The Ipod was predated by IBM with a product that not only played music but did so to a bluetooth headset...There are instances for each and every other product they sell or have sold. Apple is very very good at taking something that exists changing it to be white with a button that has a square on it and selling it for an immense profit. If you want to follow that company be my guest. :laugh:

Just remember M$ bailed Apple out when it failed. :toast:

FordGT90Concept · Jan 14, 2013

The HDTV standards came in and kicked PC monitor makers to the curb. The only way we're going to so resolutions greater than 2560x1600 on PC for a reasonable price is if the HDTV industry forces it on everyone...which is likely. If a monitor manufacturer wants more money, what better way to get more sales than obsolete all the TVs out there? There are millions of people out there that will buy whatever is "new and improved." Consumerism bit the TV market in the ass all thanks (or no thanks) to the digital television standards (DVD, PAL, ATSC, BluRay, etc.).

Easy Rhino · Jan 14, 2013

cdawall said:
No Apple takes products that already exist and push the marketing of them. The Ipod was predated by IBM with a product that not only played music but did so to a bluetooth headset...There are instances for each and every other product they sell or have sold. Apple is very very good at taking something that exists changing it to be white with a button that has a square on it and selling it for an immense profit. If you want to follow that company be my guest. Just remember M$ bailed Apple out when it failed.

right, but apple currently leads the mobile market and has done so since 2007. of course they reworked other products, most successful products are that way. the difference is apple took a gamble and showed vision. two things M$ does not have. if apple reworks older products than what does that make M$ :roll:

lemonadesoda · Jan 14, 2013

Yes. 10 years ago the "workstation" market drove innovation in the PC industry. That has gone. It is now consumer products that lead, and PC industry keeps up. For hi-res TFTs we (unfortunately) have to wait for the consumer products to drive the change. Thankfully, everyone has 1080 TVs and 4K is now the new goal. 4K consumer will FINALLY drive PC to better screens. YES, the tail is wagging the dog. I want my 4K screen yesterday, but will probably have to wait until xBox 4000 is released before 4K screens are available let alone at affordable prices.

Easy Rhino · Jan 14, 2013

You won't see 4K programming on your television for 10 years. We need better algorithms to sqeeze data through our coax ISP networks.

3870x2 · Jan 14, 2013

Easy Rhino said:
please, apple leads the mobile market with innovate solutions that M$ is JUST getting into. also, M$ servers are poop versions of unix varients who continually push hardware to its limits. it took M$ way to long to get into virtualization. pathetic.

Apple leads in overpriced products and a huge marketing division, nothing more.

Kreij · Jan 14, 2013

Easy Rhino said:
You won't see 4K programming on your television for 10 years. We need better algorithms to sqeeze data through our coax ISP networks.

First UHD TV Channel Launches In Europe
Content streams at 40Mbs, so I imagine your connection would have to be somewhat better than that.

Some movies were shot in 4K back in 2009 and 2010, and some recently More will be as UHD TVs become widespread. Sony was sending a server (loaning it) with 10 movies on it to people who bought the UHDs so they had something to watch.

I don't think it will take 10 years.

3870x2 · Jan 14, 2013

Kreij said:
First UHD TV Channel Launches In Europe
Content streams at 40Mbs, so I imagine your connection would have to be somewhat better than that.

Some movies were shot in 4K back in 2009 and 2010, and some recently More will be as UHD TVs become widespread. Sony was sending a server (loaning it) with 10 movies on it to people who bought the UHDs so they had something to watch.

I don't think it will take 10 years.

The majority of cable is still SD, I could easily see it taking the better part of 10 years, and probably at least 10 years for HD to take over SD as the majority.

The cable companies are a monopoly, they can take their time, and they will.

Easy Rhino · Jan 14, 2013

3870x2 said:
Apple leads in overpriced products and a huge marketing division, nothing more.

i would agree with you if this was 2008. the truth is you don't last long and survive on marketing alone if you make crap. apple makes the best. deal with it.

Kreij said:
First UHD TV Channel Launches In Europe
Content streams at 40Mbs, so I imagine your connection would have to be somewhat better than that.

Some movies were shot in 4K back in 2009 and 2010, and some recently More will be as UHD TVs become widespread. Sony was sending a server (loaning it) with 10 movies on it to people who bought the UHDs so they had something to watch.

I don't think it will take 10 years.

40mbps! ha, we are so far behind. could you imagine 50 million tv viewers watching 4k content all at once on our network. buffer central. and that even means they switch to IP based content delivery, something they havn't begun to plan for.

Kreij · Jan 14, 2013

@3870 : I too believe it will be years before we see any kind of widespread adoption in the U.S with the exception of areas that already have fiber to the home. My ISP (which I use for television and phone also) has a max of 20Mbs but their techs told me they would probably bump that to 50Mbs soon as the networks will handle it.

In other countries, however, that could happen a lot sooner as the infrastructure is already in place for that kind of bandwidth.

3870x2 · Jan 14, 2013

Easy Rhino said:
i would agree with you if this was 2008. the truth is you don't last long and survive on marketing alone if you make crap. apple makes the best. deal with it.

40mbps! ha, we are so far behind. could you imagine 50 million tv viewers watching 4k content all at once on our network. buffer central. and that even means they switch to IP based content delivery, something they havn't begun to plan for.

Their products are good because of excellent devs and engineers. This doesn't change the fact they are overpriced.

If I wanted to play triple for something with less capability than what I have, I'll turn to Apple. (The iPad is a Caveat to this, but only because of it's online store capabilities rival that of Google Play, although gimped. Still overpriced)

If I want an expensive designer product that is also useful for browsing the Internet, I'll turn to Apple.

However, if It want a no bullshit product that gets the job done, Apple is the last place I will look.

Easy Rhino · Jan 14, 2013

3870x2 said:
Their products are good because of excellent devs and engineers. This doesn't change the fact they are overpriced.

If I wanted to play triple for something with less capability than what I have, I'll turn to Apple.

please spec out two laptops, one apple and one not apple. show me the prices. rules: must be same monitor size, same hdd size, same ram, same cpu, same weight and same unibody design.

3870x2 · Jan 14, 2013

Easy Rhino said:
please spec out two laptops, one apple and one not apple. show me the prices. rules: must be same monitor size, same hdd size, same ram, same cpu, same weight and same unibody design.

We should probably stop talking about this, it is a bit off topic.

To answer your post: if you take the arbitrary "unibody design", we are looking at about every laptop in production. As for screen size (I assume you mean resolution) who wants to pay an extra $800 for 1600p "retina".

Nexus 10 vs iPad says more than I'll ever need to say on this subject.

LAN_deRf_HA · Jan 14, 2013

On plus side OLED and 4k are likely to be bundled together. Those Sony/Panasonic panels should be on the market this year.

System Name	ICE-QUAD // ICE-CRUNCH
Processor	Q6600 // 2x Xeon 5472
Memory	2GB DDR // 8GB FB-DIMM
Video Card(s)	HD3850-AGP // FireGL 3400
Display(s)	2 x Samsung 204Ts = 3200x1200
Audio Device(s)	Audigy 2
Software	Windows Server 2003 R2 as a Workstation now migrated to W10 with regrets.

System Name	ICE-QUAD // ICE-CRUNCH
Processor	Q6600 // 2x Xeon 5472
Memory	2GB DDR // 8GB FB-DIMM
Video Card(s)	HD3850-AGP // FireGL 3400
Display(s)	2 x Samsung 204Ts = 3200x1200
Audio Device(s)	Audigy 2
Software	Windows Server 2003 R2 as a Workstation now migrated to W10 with regrets.

System Name	Black MC in Tokyo
Processor	Ryzen 5 7600
Motherboard	MSI X670E Gaming Plus Wifi
Cooling	Be Quiet! Pure Rock 2
Memory	2 x 16GB Corsair Vengeance @ 6000Mhz
Video Card(s)	XFX 6950XT Speedster MERC 319
Storage	Kingston KC3000 1TB \| WD Black SN750 2TB \|WD Blue 1TB x 2 \| Toshiba P300 2TB \| Seagate Expansion 8TB
Display(s)	Samsung U32J590U 4K + BenQ GL2450HT 1080p
Case	Fractal Design Define R4
Audio Device(s)	Plantronics 5220, Nektar SE61 keyboard
Power Supply	Corsair RM850x v3
Mouse	Logitech G602
Keyboard	Dell SK3205
Software	Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores	Rimworld 4K ready!

System Name	ICE-QUAD // ICE-CRUNCH
Processor	Q6600 // 2x Xeon 5472
Memory	2GB DDR // 8GB FB-DIMM
Video Card(s)	HD3850-AGP // FireGL 3400
Display(s)	2 x Samsung 204Ts = 3200x1200
Audio Device(s)	Audigy 2
Software	Windows Server 2003 R2 as a Workstation now migrated to W10 with regrets.

System Name	Obelisc
Processor	i7 3770k @ 4.8 GHz
Motherboard	Asus P8Z77-V
Cooling	H110
Memory	16GB(4x4) @ 2400 MHz 9-11-11-31
Video Card(s)	GTX 780 Ti
Storage	850 EVO 1TB, 2x 5TB Toshiba
Case	T81
Audio Device(s)	X-Fi Titanium HD
Power Supply	EVGA 850 T2 80+ TITANIUM
Software	Win10 64bit

High resolution + High pixel density club

lemonadesoda

lemonadesoda

Frick

Fishfaced Nincompoop

lemonadesoda

erixx

LAN_deRf_HA

lemonadesoda

xBruce88x

Easy Rhino

Linux Advocate

cdawall

where the hell are my stars

Easy Rhino

Linux Advocate

cdawall

where the hell are my stars

FordGT90Concept

"I go fast!1!11!1!"

Easy Rhino

Linux Advocate

lemonadesoda

Easy Rhino

Linux Advocate

3870x2

Kreij

Senior Monkey Moderator

3870x2

Easy Rhino

Linux Advocate

Kreij

Senior Monkey Moderator

3870x2

Easy Rhino

Linux Advocate

3870x2

LAN_deRf_HA

System Name	Old Gateway
Processor	i5 4440 3.1ghz
Motherboard	Gateway
Cooling	Eh it doesn't thermal throttle
Memory	2x 8GB JEDEC 1600mhz DDR3
Video Card(s)	RX 560D 4GB
Storage	240gb 2.5 SSD 3TB 7.2k Seagate
Display(s)	Dell @ 1280*1024 75hz
Case	Gateway
Audio Device(s)	Gateway Diamond Audio EMC2.0-USB 5375U ($15 a long ass time ago)
Power Supply	380w oem
Mouse	Purple Walmart special, 1600dpi. Black desk mat
Keyboard	SteelSeries Apex 100
VR HMD	Lmao
Software	Windows 10
Benchmark Scores	It can run Crysis (Original), Doom 2016, and Halo MCC

System Name	Desktop
Processor	i5 13600KF
Motherboard	AsRock B760M Steel Legend Wifi
Cooling	Noctua NH-U9S
Memory	4x 16 Gb Gskill S5 DDR5 @6000
Video Card(s)	Gigabyte Gaming OC 6750 XT 12GB
Storage	WD_BLACK 4TB SN850x
Display(s)	Gigabye M32U
Case	Corsair Carbide 400C
Audio Device(s)	On Board
Power Supply	EVGA Supernova 650 P2
Mouse	MX Master 3s
Keyboard	Logitech G915 Wireless Clicky
Software	The Matrix

System Name	All the cores
Processor	2990WX
Motherboard	Asrock X399M
Cooling	CPU-XSPC RayStorm Neo, 2x240mm+360mm, D5PWM+140mL, GPU-2x360mm, 2xbyski, D4+D5+100mL
Memory	4x16GB G.Skill 3600
Video Card(s)	(2) EVGA SC BLACK 1080Ti's
Storage	2x Samsung SM951 512GB, Samsung PM961 512GB
Display(s)	Dell UP2414Q 3840X2160@60hz
Case	Caselabs Mercury S5+pedestal
Audio Device(s)	Fischer HA-02->Fischer FA-002W High edition/FA-003/Jubilate/FA-011 depending on my mood
Power Supply	Seasonic Prime 1200w
Mouse	Thermaltake Theron, Steam controller
Keyboard	Keychron K8
Software	W10P

System Name	BY-2021
Processor	AMD Ryzen 7 5800X (65w eco profile)
Motherboard	MSI B550 Gaming Plus
Cooling	Scythe Mugen (rev 5)
Memory	2 x Kingston HyperX DDR4-3200 32 GiB
Video Card(s)	AMD Radeon RX 7900 XT
Storage	Samsung 980 Pro, Seagate Exos X20 TB 7200 RPM
Display(s)	Nixeus NX-EDG274K (3840x2160@144 DP) + Samsung SyncMaster 906BW (1440x900@60 HDMI-DVI)
Case	Coolermaster HAF 932 w/ USB 3.0 5.25" bay + USB 3.2 (A+C) 3.5" bay
Audio Device(s)	Realtek ALC1150, Micca OriGen+
Power Supply	Enermax Platimax 850w
Mouse	Nixeus REVEL-X
Keyboard	Tesoro Excalibur
Software	Windows 10 Home 64-bit
Benchmark Scores	Faster than the tortoise; slower than the hare.

System Name	Ultrabeast GX2
Processor	Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 @ 4.0GHZ 24/7
Motherboard	Gigabit P35-DS3L
Cooling	Rosewill RX24, Dual Slot Vid, Fan control
Memory	2x1gb 1066mhz@850MHZ DDR2
Video Card(s)	9800GX2 @ 690/1040
Storage	750/250/250/200 all WD 7200
Display(s)	24" DCLCD 2ms 1200p
Case	Apevia
Audio Device(s)	7.1 Digital on-board, 5.1 digital hooked up
Power Supply	700W RAIDMAXXX SLI
Software	winXP Pro
Benchmark Scores	17749 3DM06