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Cities: Skylines II will not be well optimised at launch.

de.das.dude

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so its been a while, anyone can give feedback on if its good enough for a buy right now?

my system has been upgraded too :D
 
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Lol no. It’s barely improved and it seems like without an actual rework of their Unity implementation it will never run at anything approaching acceptable performance. It’s better now than at release, but the improvements are very relative. Is getting 20 FPS instead of 15 with a decent city (and not even at maximum settings, BTW) something that you would call “good enough for a buy”?
 
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barely anything has changed.
runs like crap, looks like crap, buggy as hell.
just a "little less".
 
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Just upgraded my system from a GT620 to a GT740 for this!!! :toast:
 
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wakey wakey thread!


so its been a while, anyone can give feedback on if its good enough for a buy right now?

my system has been upgraded too :D

Good luck. I was so excited about this game but despite the updates it still performs poorly on my system. It's a stuttery mess.
 
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I guess I will need to find a different game to play over holiday break.

"Large" citybuilders have to fake things, because even a fast modern computer cannot simulate the lives of all the individuals of a 10,000+ person city.

If people want an actual person-to-person simulation, you need to go smaller and play games like Tropico or Rollercoaster Tycoon, or Two-Point Hospital. These games have hundreds to single-digit thousands of people at the most.

But the downside of these stricter simulation games is "instability". Small problems in a city cascade into larger problems. I've had Tropico islands collapse because of road traffic: no one could get to work cause they were stuck in traffic... so all my production stopped, meaning my trade stopped, meaning I pissed off the Soviet Union meaning they blew up my island. Most of these "smaller" games (Tropico/Rollercoaster Tycoon / Two-Point Hospital) all are "scenario based" instead of a long-term game based. You're only supposed to play a map for a relatively short time (a few weeks in my experience), and then start a new map with a different challenge. Its almost fundamentally a different game because the "instability" almost always hits at some point.

In contrast: "Large" city builders like Cities Skylines, SimCity, and the like, are focused on stability #1, front and center. Meaning many issues (like discussed in that Reddit post) exist to prevent said instability problems. (Ex: if my production is always working in Tropico, it wouldn't have collapsed. Tying your production to your workers sounds good until one traffic incident at a key road that bottlenecks your city literally shuts down your entire damn island and literally kills your game)

--------------

I do prefer the lower-level, smaller, simulation games myself though. But they're not for everyone, as its much more punishing. Its very difficult to foresee all the ways in which a "societal collapse" occurs in these games. (Ex: In Tropico, you might build a High School, but the only one qualified to teach at the High School is your one-and-only Priest for the island. You force-change their job to High-school teacher using your communist powers / job-assignment powers, and suddenly everyone's waiting for Church to start but not getting serviced, meaning they're not going to work meaning your trade has stopped meaning the Soviet Union blows up you island)

Tropico 6, the newest in the series, feels like easy-mode though, and might be a better balance between "stability" and "simulation". Tropico 6 IIRC decided to stop simulating traffic so carefully: the cars just ghosts-through each other, so there's no way a traffic situation puts you into a death-spiral anymore. Carefully deciding what NOT to simulate, to provide the players with the most fun, is a big debate item and a huge differentiator between these simulation games. Traffic isn't completely braindead though: cars (even if they seemingly ignore traffic problems at intersections) still have their time-simulated, so all the Tobacco that needs to be transferred to the Cigar factory, and all the cigars that need to be transferred to the Cargo Docks all require your Teamsters to drive over, arrive, load up, and move the goods across the island. They just got rid of "one" blocker that was devilishly hard to manage in previous games... traffic.

But you still need to think about how many Teamsters to hire, the wages you pay them, how happy they are, how close the Teamsters are to their needs (Church, Food, Entertainment, Homes). Because each individual logistics dude is simulated, and jobs don't happen unless they're on the clock and actually moving stuff around.
 
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de.das.dude

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"Large" citybuilders have to fake things, because even a fast modern computer cannot simulate the lives of all the individuals of a 10,000+ person city.

If people want an actual person-to-person simulation, you need to go smaller and play games like Tropico or Rollercoaster Tycoon, or Two-Point Hospital. These games have hundreds to single-digit thousands of people at the most.

But the downside of these stricter simulation games is "instability". Small problems in a city cascade into larger problems. I've had Tropico islands collapse because of road traffic: no one could get to work cause they were stuck in traffic... so all my production stopped, meaning my trade stopped, meaning I pissed off the Soviet Union meaning they blew up my island. Most of these "smaller" games (Tropico/Rollercoaster Tycoon / Two-Point Hospital) all are "scenario based" instead of a long-term game based. You're only supposed to play a map for a relatively short time (a few weeks in my experience), and then start a new map with a different challenge. Its almost fundamentally a different game because the "instability" almost always hits at some point.

In contrast: "Large" city builders like Cities Skylines, SimCity, and the like, are focused on stability #1, front and center. Meaning many issues (like discussed in that Reddit post) exist to prevent said instability problems. (Ex: if my production is always working in Tropico, it wouldn't have collapsed. Tying your production to your workers sounds good until one traffic incident at a key road that bottlenecks your city literally shuts down your entire damn island and literally kills your game)

--------------

I do prefer the lower-level, smaller, simulation games myself though. But they're not for everyone, as its much more punishing. Its very difficult to foresee all the ways in which a "societal collapse" occurs in these games. (Ex: In Tropico, you might build a High School, but the only one qualified to teach at the High School is your one-and-only Priest for the island. You force-change their job to High-school teacher using your communist powers / job-assignment powers, and suddenly everyone's waiting for Church to start but not getting serviced, meaning they're not going to work meaning your trade has stopped meaning the Soviet Union blows up you island)

Tropico 6, the newest in the series, feels like easy-mode though, and might be a better balance between "stability" and "simulation". Tropico 6 IIRC decided to stop simulating traffic so carefully: the cars just ghosts-through each other, so there's no way a traffic situation puts you into a death-spiral anymore. Carefully deciding what NOT to simulate, to provide the players with the most fun, is a big debate item and a huge differentiator between these simulation games. Traffic isn't completely braindead though: cars (even if they seemingly ignore traffic problems at intersections) still have their time-simulated, so all the Tobacco that needs to be transferred to the Cigar factory, and all the cigars that need to be transferred to the Cargo Docks all require your Teamsters to drive over, arrive, load up, and move the goods across the island. They just got rid of "one" blocker that was devilishly hard to manage in previous games... traffic.

But you still need to think about how many Teamsters to hire, the wages you pay them, how happy they are, how close the Teamsters are to their needs (Church, Food, Entertainment, Homes). Because each individual logistics dude is simulated, and jobs don't happen unless they're on the clock and actually moving stuff around.


i mean cities skylines 1 made it work with a bunch of mods, and right now is better than CS2.
 
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"Large" citybuilders have to fake things, because even a fast modern computer cannot simulate the lives of all the individuals of a 10,000+ person city.

If people want an actual person-to-person simulation, you need to go smaller and play games like Tropico or Rollercoaster Tycoon, or Two-Point Hospital. These games have hundreds to single-digit thousands of people at the most.

But the downside of these stricter simulation games is "instability". Small problems in a city cascade into larger problems. I've had Tropico islands collapse because of road traffic: no one could get to work cause they were stuck in traffic... so all my production stopped, meaning my trade stopped, meaning I pissed off the Soviet Union meaning they blew up my island. Most of these "smaller" games (Tropico/Rollercoaster Tycoon / Two-Point Hospital) all are "scenario based" instead of a long-term game based. You're only supposed to play a map for a relatively short time (a few weeks in my experience), and then start a new map with a different challenge. Its almost fundamentally a different game because the "instability" almost always hits at some point.

In contrast: "Large" city builders like Cities Skylines, SimCity, and the like, are focused on stability #1, front and center. Meaning many issues (like discussed in that Reddit post) exist to prevent said instability problems. (Ex: if my production is always working in Tropico, it wouldn't have collapsed. Tying your production to your workers sounds good until one traffic incident at a key road that bottlenecks your city literally shuts down your entire damn island and literally kills your game)

--------------

I do prefer the lower-level, smaller, simulation games myself though. But they're not for everyone, as its much more punishing. Its very difficult to foresee all the ways in which a "societal collapse" occurs in these games. (Ex: In Tropico, you might build a High School, but the only one qualified to teach at the High School is your one-and-only Priest for the island. You force-change their job to High-school teacher using your communist powers / job-assignment powers, and suddenly everyone's waiting for Church to start but not getting serviced, meaning they're not going to work meaning your trade has stopped meaning the Soviet Union blows up you island)

Tropico 6, the newest in the series, feels like easy-mode though, and might be a better balance between "stability" and "simulation". Tropico 6 IIRC decided to stop simulating traffic so carefully: the cars just ghosts-through each other, so there's no way a traffic situation puts you into a death-spiral anymore. Carefully deciding what NOT to simulate, to provide the players with the most fun, is a big debate item and a huge differentiator between these simulation games. Traffic isn't completely braindead though: cars (even if they seemingly ignore traffic problems at intersections) still have their time-simulated, so all the Tobacco that needs to be transferred to the Cigar factory, and all the cigars that need to be transferred to the Cargo Docks all require your Teamsters to drive over, arrive, load up, and move the goods across the island. They just got rid of "one" blocker that was devilishly hard to manage in previous games... traffic.

But you still need to think about how many Teamsters to hire, the wages you pay them, how happy they are, how close the Teamsters are to their needs (Church, Food, Entertainment, Homes). Because each individual logistics dude is simulated, and jobs don't happen unless they're on the clock and actually moving stuff around.

I see your point, but at the end the games needs to be what they marketed it as, and it needs to run smoothly, especially on mid-range or high-end PCs and it can't even do that.
 

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In contrast: "Large" city builders like Cities Skylines, SimCity, and the like, are focused on stability #1, front and center. Meaning many issues (like discussed in that Reddit post) exist to prevent said instability problems. (Ex: if my production is always working in Tropico, it wouldn't have collapsed. Tying your production to your workers sounds good until one traffic incident at a key road that bottlenecks your city literally shuts down your entire damn island and literally kills your game)

Agreed. However, what you described is exactly what the developers advertised cities 2 to be! I am hoping over time they can adjust whatever parameters they have for the economy to work as they said it would, otherwise there is no point in ever playing it. Cities 1 is the better optimized game with far more potential thanks to modding.
 

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I see your point, but at the end the games needs to be what they marketed it as, and it needs to run smoothly, especially on mid-range or high-end PCs and it can't even do that.
Well, considering that it can easily saturate all 12 threads on my 3930k via Proton, I suspect if you have more cores it could help. I would be interested to hear the experience of someone with an AMD 12c/24t or 16c/32t chip and how it performs. I don't want to muddy the waters with Intel chips with the efficiency cores because if the game does scale as well as it seems to, those efficiency cores might be a limiting factor.

Either way, I've been enjoying it. It definitely is hitting the CPU a lot harder than the GPU. My Vega 64 really has no problems running the game. It seems to be CPU bound 99% of the time, which makes sense for a 3930k which isn't exactly modern tech.
I am hoping over time they can adjust whatever parameters they have for the economy to work as they said it would, otherwise there is no point in ever playing it.
I'm hoping that this has to do more with me not fully understanding what I should be doing as opposed to it just being an issue with the game. Not sure if it makes to breaks the game for me though.
 
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Well, considering that it can easily saturate all 12 threads on my 3930k via Proton, I suspect if you have more cores it could help. I would be interested to hear the experience of someone with an AMD 12c/24t or 16c/32t chip and how it performs. I don't want to muddy the waters with Intel chips with the efficiency cores because if the game does scale as well as it seems to, those efficiency cores might be a limiting factor.

Either way, I've been enjoying it. It definitely is hitting the CPU a lot harder than the GPU. My Vega 64 really has no problems running the game. It seems to be CPU bound 99% of the time, which makes sense for a 3930k which isn't exactly modern tech.

I'm hoping that this has to do more with me not fully understanding what I should be doing as opposed to it just being an issue with the game. Not sure if it makes to breaks the game for me though.

I haven't built any huge cities as I lost my save files when I reinstalled Windows (had them set to local, not Steam Cloud, whoops) but on my system (i5-11600K, 64GB DDR4-3600, Radeon RX 6950 XT 16GB, 4K 60Hz monitors) it's definitely GPU bound.
 

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just played the game a bit... seems to be okay enough for my specs.

however this really needs a lot of economy tuning. i found it hard to make money in the start, then too much money later on.

also, traffic is HORRIBLE. needs TMPE like yesterday. the road tools are great, but kind of clunky. doesnt compare well to node controller in CS1
 

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just played the game a bit... seems to be okay enough for my specs.

however this really needs a lot of economy tuning. i found it hard to make money in the start, then too much money later on.

also, traffic is HORRIBLE. needs TMPE like yesterday. the road tools are great, but kind of clunky. doesnt compare well to node controller in CS1

Occasionally I will read posts on the cities skylines forums to see what people are complaining about. Seems like a lot.
 
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Modding support

To summarize on the priorities of the modding support:
  1. Public Beta version of code modding and Paradox Mods will be available in the live build by the end of March
  2. Public Beta version of Map editing available in the live build together with code modding or soon after
  3. Public Beta version of Asset editing to be announced, only after the technical issues are sorted can we roll out the tool
  4. Continue to work on the modding support and get out of the Beta stage during the Finnish fall.
 
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Ah yes, because if you can’t actually fix your trainwreck of a game yourself… just hope modders will do it for you! Let’s call it “The Bethesda Approach”.
No, but seriously, with the game running as poorly as it does and the engine being as broken as it is seemingly I am not sure that many modders will bite and decide to pour their time and effort into it.
 

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Power Supply EVGA Supernova 650 P2
Mouse MX Master 3s
Keyboard Logitech G915 Wireless Clicky
Software The Matrix
I don't think the game can be fixed because it is not as advertised. Unless someone can make the a truly simulated city with a working economy...
 

de.das.dude

Pro Indian Modder
Joined
Jun 13, 2010
Messages
8,792 (1.73/day)
Location
Stuck in a PC. halp.
System Name Monke | Work Thinkpad| Old Monke
Processor Ryzen 5600X | Ryzen 5500U | FX8320
Motherboard ASRock B550 Extreme4 | ? | Asrock 990FX Extreme 4
Cooling 240mm Rad | Not needed | hyper 212 EVO
Memory 2x16GB DDR4 3600 Corsair RGB | 16 GB DDR4 3600 | 16GB DDR3 1600
Video Card(s) Sapphire Pulse RX6700XT 12GB | Vega 8 | Sapphire Pulse RX580 8GB
Storage Samsung 980 nvme (Primary) | some samsung SSD
Display(s) Dell 2723DS | Some 14" 1080p 98%sRGB IPS | Dell 2240L
Case Ant Esports Tempered case | Thinkpad | Antec
Audio Device(s) Logitech Z333 | Jabra corpo stuff
Power Supply Corsair RM750e | not needed | Corsair GS 600
Mouse Logitech G400 | nipple
Keyboard Logitech G213 | stock kb is awesome | Logitech K230
VR HMD ;_;
Software Windows 10 Professional x3
Benchmark Scores There are no marks on my bench
the economy is quite challenging early game but later on it becomes so easy, almost dont need taxes lmao.

seems like its running better at 300k plus pop than the old game, but it also looks like they are doing a lot of shortcuts in the simulation in the bg. Its become more of an arcade game than sim.

also traffic management and the road tools are crap.
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
21,123 (5.97/day)
Location
The Washing Machine
Processor i7 8700k 4.6Ghz @ 1.24V
Motherboard AsRock Fatal1ty K6 Z370
Cooling beQuiet! Dark Rock Pro 3
Memory 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 3200/C16
Video Card(s) ASRock RX7900XT Phantom Gaming
Storage Samsung 850 EVO 1TB + Samsung 830 256GB + Crucial BX100 250GB + Toshiba 1TB HDD
Display(s) Gigabyte G34QWC (3440x1440)
Case Fractal Design Define R5
Audio Device(s) Harman Kardon AVR137 + 2.1
Power Supply EVGA Supernova G2 750W
Mouse XTRFY M42
Keyboard Lenovo Thinkpad Trackpoint II
Software W10 x64
Just make CS1 even better honestly. This sequel is a lost case.
 
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