Does charging protection matter?

[AusWolf]

The question is simple. Does charging protection (limiting to 80% charge) make a difference in battery lifespan?

My logic dictates that Li-Ion and Li-Po batteries are designed to operate at a specific voltage, which correlates to 100% charge. If it wasn't safe, then manufacturers wouldn't designate that voltage as 100%, they would set something lower. I might be wrong, though, as I imagine, it's not entirely impossible to overcharge a battery. The question is, do we actually overcharge our batteries at 100%? Does limiting charge to 80% actually extend battery lifespan? Is there any research in the topic? Or are phone manufacturers catering to our conspiracy theories on planned obsolescence by letting us limit charge to 80%?

 

[tabascosauz]

Is there any research in the topic? Or are phone manufacturers catering to our conspiracy theories on planned obsolescence by letting us limit charge to 80%?

I only remember this one, which did seem to have pretty clear findings. But obviously there are a number of different chemistries that fall under "Li-ion".

A holistic aging model for Li(NiMnCo)O2 based 18650 lithium-ion batteries - ScienceDirect

You shouldn't fixate too much on the 80% number alone. Instead:

• Avoid the time that the batt spends in very low (close to 0) and very full charge (100). A lot of time people don't remember about the low end and overly fixate on 100%
• For devices that are always plugged in (e.g. gaming laptops), I'd imagine the concern is much more relevant if it's allowed to continually attempt to "top off" while at a very high charge. Hence the charge limit features implemented in more laptops and in software (GHelper)
• Fast charging (regardless of whether it's a car, phone, laptop) always slows down significantly starting somewhere from 50-80%+ to protect battery from increased heat from internal resistance

 

[Shrek]

I thought it was well know that it helps extend life; not really something one can vote on.

Why Charging Your Gadgets Over 80% Is Such a Bad Idea | iFixit News

 

[Onasi]

It’s a debatable topic to this day, I would say. For what it is worth, from my experience I didn’t find much improvement from using it - a phone that you actively daily use and charge will on average lose several to about ten percent battery resource annually and ultimately settle down around 80-ish. Tablets have larger capacity and usually used less aggressively so they are less affected. I have an ancient Air 2 that still, after almost a decade, gets maybe just an hour or so less life on a full charge with net browsing. Obviously, there are circumstances that will increase drain dramatically, like running a VPN in the background or high-quality graphics gaming.
Maaaaybe it helps if you ALWAYS stick to the same charging routine that would allow the limits to kick in reliably or do so yourself manually. To me, it’s too much of a hassle.

 

[Sithaer]

Even if it does I think I would obsolete my phones way before it messing up the battery life too much.
Usually I ugrade my phones every 3 years or so and I've always charged from 20-30% to 100% and I did not notice much of a battery life decrease even after years. 'my current Realme 8 will be 3 years old in a few months and it still has a good battery life and I also game on my phone.. '

My father's old Redmi 2A's battery is still alright even tho he always leaves his phones to charge overnight to full. 'that phone is completely obsolete tho'

 

[AusWolf]

I thought it was well know that it helps extend life; not really something one can vote on.

Why Charging Your Gadgets Over 80% Is Such a Bad Idea | iFixit News

The theory is well known, I was just wondering how much scientific proof is behind it.

Even if it does I think I would obsolete my phones way before it messing up the battery life too much.
Usually I ugrade my phones every 3 years or so and I've always charged from 20-30% to 100% and I did not notice much of a battery life decrease even after years. 'my current Realme 8 will be 3 years old in a few months and it still has a good battery life and I also game on my phone.. '

My father's old Redmi 2A's battery is still alright even tho he always leaves his phones to charge overnight to full. 'that phone is completely obsolete tho'

I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum. I only use my phone for messaging and light browsing, and I only upgrade if I absolutely don't have any other choice (for example, when the battery dies).

I'm currently on a tiny Blackview N6000, which is a really unique model (I can't think of any other phone this small), and I'd like to keep it as long as possible.

 

[Sithaer]

The theory is well known, I was just wondering how much scientific proof is behind it.


I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum. I only use my phone for messaging and light browsing, and I only upgrade if I absolutely don't have any other choice (for example, when the battery dies).

I'm currently on a tiny Blackview N6000, which is a really unique model (I can't think of any other phone this small), and I'd like to keep it as long as possible.

I've used to be the same, like I did not even have a smart phone for a long time nor cared about them. 'I think I've bought my first very budget one in late 2016'
My old 'dumb' Samsung phone's battery died after ~8 years of use 'bought it when I was still in high school..' and thats when I made the switch to smart phones.

My father also barely wanted to upgrade from his old Redmi A2 even tho it was really slow at this point even for daily casual use. 'battery is ok tho'

I'm also not a fan of too big/heavy phones and my current phone is about where I draw the line. Might upgrade to a Poco F5 or the upcoming F6 later this year depending on the local pricing and my financial situation at the time. 'F5 would be plenty enough and most likely would last me more than 3 years too'

 

[#22]

If we talk phones, I personally obey recommendation of keeping batteries between 20-80%, because this 60% easily fits my daily needs. But from my experience temperature may noticeably affect condition of battery. My phone has battery health counter and there was a time when I started to watch Youtube before sleep instead of typical to me web browsing readable things. Phone gets warmer from hour+ long Youtube sessions and after month or two of doing that I noticed that my battery degraded uncomparably faster than it used to before. I immediately connected the dots, just stopped watching Yt and then battery came back to previous slower pace of degradation. EDIT: To be clear I still happen to watch some Yt or other videos and I meant I just stopped long sessions of Yt like mentioned ones before sleep

On the other hand batteries last well quite long and are quite cheap thing, so I wouldn't be too much bothered here. That's why my take is to care about it as much as it's not inconvenient, because in the first place device is here to do it's job, not it's battery to last as long as possible.

 

[Shrek]

The theory is well known, I was just wondering how much scientific proof is behind it.

batteries - Wouldn't charging a lithium battery to 80% only defeat the purpose of putting the battery into longer use in the first place? - Electrical Engineering Stack Exchange

 

[freeagent]

I charge to 100, use till about 20-30 and plug it in. Same with my r/c Lipos. If you only charge to 80, then the cells wont be balanced properly. That is just my opinion though..

 

[Shrek]

I thought a lot of device batteries were single cell (3.6V)

 

[ty_ger]

Without a doubt it helps. Especially for devices with an overly-aggressive full charge cut-off threshold. Some devices choose excessive charge and discharge limits either due to poor design, cheap design, or trying to push rated on-time to some magic even-number value that beats the competition.

TLDR: it matters as a matter or chemistry, and really matters in some instances.

Look at this image. The flat line is where you want to operate. You have the least amount of heat and damage along that line, and most effective and efficient power. Either end is minimally beneficial in the grand scheme of things. Even limiting it to 4 volts per cell instead of 4.25 volts per cell is quite beneficial. A compromise, if you can deal with a little less on-time.

If manufacturers cared about longevity, consumers wouldn't have to take matters into their own hands. But that's no the case, when consumers would rather replace their phone yearly if it means they get 45 more minutes of on-time per day. Military/aviation/critical systems often limit lithium ion charge voltage to 3.8 to 4 volts per cell; because they know it makes a difference.

Not a subject of debate.

 

[Onasi]

I also would point out that the practicality of “battery hygiene” is rather dependent on the capacity of your chosen device. I am sure that perhaps in the case of fuck-off HUEG modern flagship phablets with their often hefty batteries charging them up to 80% to start off the day is no issue. However, and this is again my personal anecdotal experience, my 13 Mini has a comparatively small battery considering its near-flagship specs (well, it was one when bought) and the difference between 80 and a full charge is not insignificant. I don’t always have time or a place to charge up during the day and hauling around power banks is inconvenient. So even if using “best practices” can theoretically improve the lifespan of the battery it just often isn’t feasible. I might as well suck it down and just replace the battery if needed down the line.

 

[Shrek]

80% quadruples life, not bad.

 

[1freedude]

Dont forget about how fast you get to 80. In addition to stopping at 80, my software charge controller also limits amperage. I limit amps to 0.75.

Occasionally, I'll throw a fast current charge, but only to 50%.

 

[sLowEnd]

IMO it's not worth the hassle. Batteries are inherently consumable parts that wear out eventually no matter what you do. (Or even if you do nothing at all, since batteries chemically age with time too)
If you limit your charging to 80%, you get a head start on the reduced capacity experience

The only time I "manage" the charge on my devices is if I plan to store it for an extended period of time, in which case I'll get the battery to about 60% before putting the device away.

 

[AusWolf]

Dont forget about how fast you get to 80. In addition to stopping at 80, my software charge controller also limits amperage. I limit amps to 0.75.

Occasionally, I'll throw a fast current charge, but only to 50%.

I do that by using a 5 V 1 A slow charger. I charge while I'm sleeping, so I don't care if I get a full charge in 1 or 3 hours, so might as well save my battery from excessive heat.

IMO it's not worth the hassle. Batteries are inherently consumable parts that wear out eventually no matter what you do. (Or even if you do nothing at all, since batteries chemically age with time too)
If you limit your charging to 80%, you get a head start on the reduced capacity experience

The only time I "manage" the charge on my devices is if I plan to store it for an extended period of time, in which case I'll get the battery to about 60% before putting the device away.

I see your point, but don't you think it would be beneficial to take good care of your devices and keep them longer? Unless you upgrade them frequently for other reasons, in which case, disregard my question. It's just that I'd rather keep my phone as long as possible, and spend my saved money on something else. So if I can get another 1-2 years out of it by limiting max charge to 80%, then I think it's worth it.

batteries - Wouldn't charging a lithium battery to 80% only defeat the purpose of putting the battery into longer use in the first place? - Electrical Engineering Stack Exchange

View attachment 345433

Wow, that's really interesting! This is the kind of study I was thinking about. 4x lifespan sounds amazing. I think I'll try the 80% limit from now on and see how it goes.

 

[Shrek]

IMO it's not worth the hassle. Batteries are inherently consumable parts that wear out eventually no matter what you do.

Quadrupling the life might make them last the life of the device and so no longer consumable.

 

[sLowEnd]

I do that by using a 5 V 1 A charger. I charge while I'm sleeping, so I don't care if I get a full charge in 1 or 3 hours, so might as well save my battery from excessive heat.


I see your point, but don't you think it would be beneficial to take good care of your devices and keep them longer? Unless you upgrade them frequently for other reasons, in which case, disregard my question. It's just that I'd rather keep my phone as long as possible, and spend my saved money on something else.

I go about 4-5 years between getting new phones. Normal charging habits without micromanagement didn't kill my previous phone. The battery was still noticeably degraded, but still serviceable when I decided to replace the phone. Other reasons unrelated to the battery prompted me to make the change.

 

[64K]

For my mobile devices I don't let them go below 40% and I charge them to 100%. I don't know how this affects battery life but I've never had to replace a device because the battery failed anyway so it doesn't matter to me. Maybe I upgrade faster than most do?

 

[sLowEnd]

Quadrupling the life might make them last the life of the device and so no longer consumable.

Why bother, if my phone was still usable with normal charging habits after 5 years? At the rate of degradation I was experiencing, it would've been fine for a 6th year too.

I'm not going to be using the same phone for 20 years.

 

[Shrek]

Fair enough, but I'm the kind of guy who keeps a car more than 20 years and my main computer is at about 15 years; and I don't have a cell phone.

 

[sLowEnd]

Fair enough, but I'm the kind of guy who keeps a car more than 20 years and my main computer is at about 15 years; and I don't have a cell phone.

Cars are a different beast. A lot of the cars within my family and extended family are over 20 too. My father drives a 2000 Accord, one of my uncles a 1997 CR-V, and a cousin a 2003 Corolla.

 

[:D:D]

Down to personal preference IMO. Manufacturers usually interested in maximum up time hours on battery for the public so likely going to use 100% charge. My own personal preference is to charge 100%, preferably fast charge (don't like waiting). I don't like to discharge below 10% as low voltage levels seem to be a killer of cells in my experience.

 

[Space Lynx]

my galaxy phone has 4 years OS updates and 5 years security and i intend to keep it for 5-6 years, i have had protect battery on since the day i bought it. when traveling and i need the extra battery i turn it back to normal, but most of the time i am home and not doing anything so i leave it protect battery most of the year.

i am hoping its worth it in year 5 or 6. then i will upgrade