BarbaricSoulTried, too damn expensive compared to a PC. I'd love to try the current MAC OS, but I'm not willing to spend $2000+ to do so.

You don't need to buy a current Mac to experience OSX. It really hasn't changed all the much in almost 10 years.

TheMailMan78You don't need to buy a current Mac to experience OSX. It really hasn't changed all the much in almost 10 years.

Just a couple months ago, you advised me not to get a $150 older Mac to try out the Mac OS, because it was to outdated(it was like 5 years old).

www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176552

BarbaricSoulJust a couple months ago, you advised me not to get a $150 older Mac to try out the Mac OS, because it was to outdated(it was like 5 years old).

www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176552

No it had a PowerPC processor. A G4 no less. Nothing will run on it. That's why I said that. If you just wanna mess with OSX that would be fine but I would hate for you to blow 150 bucks just to play with an OS.

Tatty_OneI always get entertained when reading mac related threads..... thank you all once again for your contributions in brightening up what would otherwise be a wet and dreary Sunday Morning..... on topic....... someone works hard.... 30..... 40...... 50 hours per week, saves up to buy some hardware........ takes them a year or two...... and then they get criticised for making their own choice in their purchase? Really, has freedom of choice completely left our doorsteps :cool:

this is tpu...where pc elitists spend thousands of dollars every year to upgrade their rig to play console ports at 200fps.. if you aren't using windows then you are a lamer who has bought into the apple fad!!111!! nevermind that microsoft has been changing its entire direction to match apple's massively profitable business model. and nevermind that the next generation of consoles is going to put an end to pc gaming as we know it. linux will be the last vestige for the pc gamer when only massive companies like EA,sony, and microsoft can afford to publish titles. gabe said linux is our get of jail free card so you better starting torrenting some distros :pimp:

Easy Rhinothis is tpu...where pc elitists spend thousands of dollars every year to upgrade their rig to play console ports at 200fps.. if you aren't using windows then you are a lamer who has bought into the apple fad!!111!! nevermind that microsoft has been changing its entire direction to match apple's massively profitable business model. and nevermind that the next generation of consoles is going to put an end to pc gaming as we know it. linux will be the last vestige for the pc gamer when only massive companies like EA,sony, and microsoft can afford to publish titles. gabe said linux is our get of jail free card so you better starting torrenting some distros :pimp:

What on Earth are you talking about???

For starters, while there are a lot of users that spend thousands every year on hardware, those same users also pad the expenses by sellling rather modern hardware they are replacing to other users. Suddenly going from a GTX580 to a GTX680 only costs $1-200 for a pretty nice performance bump. On top of that, not everyone pays out the ass for top of the line systems to play console ports at 200fps. The most popular games (based on topics and observation) on TPU are The Witcher 2, Far Cry 3, Skyrim, Battlefield 3, and DayZ. Of those, most of them have PC versions that fully support modding and/or have DX11 support. A few are even PC exclusives (for the time being in some cases).

Nextly, people like Windows (primarily 7) because it does everything well enough. It's a jack of all trades OS that is hugely common and allows for you to do whatever you want. Games? Go for it. Editting? Go for it. Graphic Design? Shine on you crazy diamond. OSX on the other hand, can do a few things very well, but has almost no support in other areas. The reason Games are so common for TPU users, is because if you buy a $3-400 GPU, why wouldn't you play a lot of games? It doesn't make sense to have that hardware if you're not going to use it. Microsoft has been trying to get into the Tablet market, but who the hell hasn't? You can buy tablets at Rite Aid for god sake...

The next-gen of consoles killing PC gaming? Never happen. PC Gaming will never die, as long as it offers the freedom to customize that consoles absolutely do not. Also, software sales for PC games have been trending upwards for years, and for the past few years console software sales have trended down. All a new generation of consoles will do is get consumers to buy a new console and maybe a few games this year. The people who play consoles a lot will never be PC Gamers anyway, so it won't exactly hurt sales on the PC side of things. I'd rather spend a few hundred every couple years upgrading my PC and buying software for dirt cheap than pay full price for games and a single investment of a few hundred dollars. Especially when PC allows for upgrades, higher resolutions, and increased image quality thanks to things like MSAA and FXAA.

xenocidePC Gaming will never die, as long as it offers the freedom to customize that consoles absolutely do not. Also, software sales for PC games have been trending upwards for years, and for the past few years console software sales have trended down.

pc game sales have been trending upwards because there hasn't been a new high end consoles since 2006. the wii u just came out and you already see an explosion in console games sales! once the ps4 and xbox 720 come out gamers will shift their purchases toward consoles. it happens every time. you already see very few games developed solely for the pc and that trend will continue so long as microsoft continues to wall off its environment making it even harder for independent devs (the future of pc gaming) to develop and have their titles released at a low cost. valve knows this. they have already laid the groundwork for an easy way to get your new game out there (greenlight) and have been actively developing steam for linux and getting some of their older titles out there for linux. that is the future of pc gaming. look at all the bloat in the huge game houses like EA. they keep consolidated. THQ had to sell off its game houses. Everyone has been complaining about the major drop in quality of UBIsoft games. The ones that are surviving are the ones directly linked to the console creators. microsoft, sony, ninentdo all have several of their own game dev studios pumping out games that are raking in the big bucks. at the same time they have all rolled out their own content delivery platform to rival what steam has done for the PC. these are dark days but as gabe pointed out, we have a way out of it. a free and open platform is the future for pc gaming. adapt or die.

Easy Rhinopc game sales have been trending upwards because there hasn't been a new high end consoles since 2006. the wii u just came out and you already see an explosion in console games sales! once the ps4 and xbox 720 come out gamers will shift their purchases toward consoles. it happens every time.

There is not and explosion of console sales--software or hardware--surrounding the Wii U. It's already being threatened as a flop because the console is selling so poorly, and there are no real games for it. Check out the top software sales for this past week (globally). There's only 2 Wii U games in the entire top 50. One of which is packaged with the console. So I don't buy for a second that consoles are driving sales through the roof in recent months. The reason is probably because the Wii U is kind of a poorly marketted underpowered "next-gen" console. Look at the hardware sales. It hasn't even passed the PS Vita in sales numbers, a system that is widely considered a failure. Just look up sales numbers for the Wii U, it's not pretty.

Easy Rhinoyou already see very few games developed solely for the pc and that trend will continue so long as microsoft continues to wall off its environment making it even harder for independent devs (the future of pc gaming) to develop and have their titles released at a low cost. valve knows this. they have already laid the groundwork for an easy way to get your new game out there (greenlight) and have been actively developing steam for linux and getting some of their older titles out there for linux. that is the future of pc gaming.

How is Windows walled off for Indie Dev's? As far as I can see there is a huge Indie Dev presence on Windows, and it's part of the reason why PC Gaming is thriving. I think you're misreading Valves intentions. Valve more than anything loves creating markets. When they started Steam digital distribution was not a feasible thing, and they now are the biggest and most valuable digital distribution platform on the internet. I've seen interviews where Gabe Newell cites analysts telling him in meetings that expanding Steam to Russia and China was suicide because there was "no market" due to piracy, and explaining that they have continually turned a profit in these territories. Linux is no different, there's a whole host of gamers that use Linux, or want to use Linux, but simply can't because nobody supports it. This could really force Microsoft to abandon dragging Windows and by extention the PC into a tablet-centric universe.

Easy Rhinolook at all the bloat in the huge game houses like EA. they keep consolidated. THQ had to sell off its game houses. Everyone has been complaining about the major drop in quality of UBIsoft games.

They are publically traded companies. They are held accountable to the stock holders, which means their hands are tied for the most part. If CoD sells $1B every year, they would be crazy not to keep making them. Ubisoft has always been a publisher drowning in crap, but they are actually one of the companies turning it around--Watch Dogs looks great, Far Cry 3 was awesome, the new Rayman looks awesome, and even AC3 wasn't too bad. THQ went under because they were making interesting but mediocre games and spending an arm and a leg to do it. I loved their Warhammer games, and SR3 was amazing, but outside of that they had almost nothing of quality--but still paid insanely to produce games.

Easy RhinoThe ones that are surviving are the ones directly linked to the console creators. microsoft, sony, ninentdo all have several of their own game dev studios pumping out games that are raking in the big bucks. at the same time they have all rolled out their own content delivery platform to rival what steam has done for the PC.

That is entirely not true. For Nintendo only 1st Party games sell. Mario anything will sell a crapload, but Sony and Microsoft aren't the only people making money. Activision is making a ton of money off Call of Duty, EA made decent money on Mass Effect and BF3, 2K Games is always doing fine and Borderlands 2 was a huge success, Zenimax had a lot of success with Skyrim and associated DLC--and keep in mind, these are just Publishers. The studios and publishers that are going under for the most part had underlying problems. Usually paying way too much to make games that just aren't that good.

On top of that, the digital distribution on consoles is garbage. PSN is a pile of crap, I'll admit that. Xbox Live is okay, but when you're paying monthly just to use the service you're essentially overpaying for every aspect of the service. If Steam charged monthly nobody would use it--okay, maybe they would, but nobody compares when it comes to Steam Sales.

Easy Rhinothese are dark days but as gabe pointed out, we have a way out of it. a free and open platform is the future for pc gaming. adapt or die.

When exactly did he point that out? Everything I've read has him pretty optimistic about the future of the PC as a platform, to the extent of him expanding PC presence to the living room with small cost-effective HTPC's. Free and Open is ideal, but that's what PC Gamers are all about. Steam is DRM, I'll admit that, but it also offers more tools and better functionality than any other platform out there. Things like Steam Workshop and Steam Green Light are leading to amazing things in the world of PC Gaming, what does Xbox Live or PSN have by comparison?

when the ps4 and xbox 720 are released pc gaming will be dead in the water. sales will be so low that the inevitable will happen. the big bloated companies will have to abandon the very expensive task of developing games for both the consoles and the pc. it's all over dude. the future of pc gaming is in linux where the open environment will produce some of the most talented young indie developers along with some of the most exciting action games of all time. the big companies can only keep turning out the same old crap year after year while the indie developers are creating fresh games with new ideas.

PC gaming will never be dead. Games like Company of Heroes can never do well in consoles. RPG games are better on PC. Indies titles are definitely going to be PC and it looks like this is one area that will bloom. I'm playing Chivalry and it's a great game despite some annoying bugs. I'm certainly seeing more indie games than ever before. The quality has also improved.

I don't think the problem with PC gaming is that it's dying, it's just that it's not growing as quickly as consoles and therefore seems like a shrinking marketshare.

Economically, on the supply side the curve will go up. If prices goes up then supply will go up. This is what is happening on the console market right now. There is a shift in the equilibrium to the right because of higher demand and higher prices. If you ever wonder and kept complaining about why developers shifted their resources to making console games first. They will go where it will most benefit them and it's all about $$.

The other factor in the reduction of market share for PC is that console is considered inferior goods. Since 2008, it is a better economic choice for most people. Inferior goods have an inverse effect compared to market trend. People with no jobs, less money, that has a ton of free time on their hands will want a $300 console to entertain them instead of a $1000 computer. I was out of the job for a few months along with a few friends and this was a no brainer decision. We were not broke, it's just wise not to waste money when you're in between jobs in a tough economy.

Easy Rhinowhen the ps4 and xbox 720 are released pc gaming will be dead in the water. sales will be so low that the inevitable will happen. the big bloated companies will have to abandon the very expensive task of developing games for both the consoles and the pc. it's all over dude. ...

Man, you sound worst than those Apocalypse predictors or profets. Get a grip. PC gaming wont disappear and desktops wont disappear. :shadedshu

Prima.VeraMan, you sound worst than those Apocalypse predictors or profets. Get a grip. PC gaming wont disappear and desktops wont disappear. :shadedshu

since microsoft continues to close off its environment to match apple's incredible business strategy pc gaming will cease to exist in its current form.

what is ironic is that a lot of people hate apple because they are a walled garden. now that microsoft is moving rapidly in that direction will those same haters jump to linux where gabe and the entire valve/steam enterprise is putting their chips?

Easy Rhinosince microsoft continues to close off its environment to match apple's incredible business strategy pc gaming will cease to exist in its current form.

what is ironic is that a lot of people hate apple because they are a walled garden. now that microsoft is moving rapidly in that direction will those same haters jump to linux where gabe and the entire valve/steam enterprise is putting their chips?

You really think Gabe is putting all his chips in Linux because they decided to open that market?! :laugh::roll: Yeah um sure. Steam will have a Windows 8 app soon.

TheMailMan78You really think Gabe is putting all his chips in Linux because they decided to open that market?! :laugh::roll: Yeah um sure. Steam will have a Windows 8 app soon.

no. stop trolling. valve has been very vocal about its support for linux. gabe called it a get out of jail free card. and, they said there will be more development for games for linux than for mac. the tide is turning and not even the trolls can stop it ;)

Easy Rhinono. stop trolling. valve has been very vocal about its support for linux. gabe called it a get out of jail free card. and, they said there will be more development for games for linux than for mac. the tide is turning and not even the trolls can stop it ;)

Dude your running on wishful thinking more than anything. Linux over taking MS market share in the next 10 years? Not a chance and Gabe likes to make money. Remember when he said he hated the PS3 then 6 months later Steam debuted on it? Yeah welcome to reality.

Easy Rhinowhen the ps4 and xbox 720 are released pc gaming will be dead in the water. sales will be so low that the inevitable will happen. the big bloated companies will have to abandon the very expensive task of developing games for both the consoles and the pc. it's all over dude. the future of pc gaming is in linux where the open environment will produce some of the most talented young indie developers along with some of the most exciting action games of all time. the big companies can only keep turning out the same old crap year after year while the indie developers are creating fresh games with new ideas.

Except that in recent years companies have started expanding their support for PC Versions after realizing they can make good money as long as the game is properly supported. Between 2009 and 2011 there wasn't a single AAA Game that came out that wasn't clearly a port, now there are plenty of games with things like High Resolution textures, multiple thread support, proper graphics settings, and mod support. Sleeping Dogs, Borderlands 2, Skyrim, Far Cry 3, DmC, and quite a few other games are infinitely more enjoyable on PC.

PC already has some of the best and most talented Indie Developers in the industry. With games like Minecraft, Super Meat Boy, The Binding Of Isaac, Jamestown, The Legend of Grimrock, Natural Selection 2--the list goes on and on. Sure a lot of these games have appeared on consoles, but most of them started on the PC, and really shine there.

Easy Rhinono. stop trolling. valve has been very vocal about its support for linux. gabe called it a get out of jail free card. and, they said there will be more development for games for linux than for mac. the tide is turning and not even the trolls can stop it ;)

You're taking his words out of context. He said that when Windows 8 was ready to release and Microsoft had their own "App Store" built into it, he feared it meant Microsoft would lock other companies out of distributing apps through Windows. If that were the case Steam would pretty much cease to exist, and would be forced to move to a different OS or develop their own. None of that ended up happening so as far as we know Steam is secure on Windows.

As for more development for games on Linux than Mac, that's because Mac-users generally aren't gamers. There are plenty of tech-loving individuals that want to use Linux but are stuck with Windows because Linux has literally no support for games. On top of that, to make Steambox cost-effective they need to cut out anything that adds to cost--like an operating system from a third party. It will also allow them to work with a more streamlined PC Operating System, a customized version of Linux dedicated to running games is a lot more ideal than a bloated general purpose operating system like Windows.

I remember people said PC Gaming was dead when the Xbox 360 launched, and after 7-8 years the revenue has continued to go up.

Why are you talking about gaming in a thread about a workstation? :wtf:

WidjajaIf I didn't know anything about computers and had money to burn, I would go for the Apple.
They are always well presented and the 'cool' people in the movies are always using them.

I would want to be cool too.

I always laugh when I see those, and have a snobbish and pathetic feeling for those characters... :laugh:

FrickWhy are you talking about gaming in a thread about a workstation? :wtf:

because apparently it is ok to spend $2000 on a gaming rig but not ok to spend the same amount of money on a mac pro.

Easy Rhinobecause apparently it is ok to spend $2000 on a gaming rig but not ok to spend the same amount of money on a mac pro.

So they are not really worth arguing with. It's a workstation, compare it to workstations. Apples and oranges.

Easy Rhinobecause apparently it is ok to spend $2000 on a gaming rig but not ok to spend the same amount of money on a mac pro.

But it could play crysis!

Easy Rhinobecause apparently it is ok to spend $2000 on a gaming rig but not ok to spend the same amount of money on a mac pro.

It is just that the average PC has much more usefulness to the average person. To me it is an inferior product because all I can really do with it is web surfing and play maybe a few games. The fact is I could buy two PCs for the price of 1 mac, and sure the mac is probably built a bit better, but if I need to fix the mac, it could take the better part of a day (if I'm lucky and don't break something), whereas I can be in and out of any other laptop in an hour.

I can't even find myself recommending macs to people who only surf the web, because I am afraid that they might try and do something they know a PC can do, that a mac can't, and be disappointed.

3870x2It is just that the average PC has much more usefulness to the average person. To me it is an inferior product because all I can really do with it is web surfing and play maybe a few games. The fact is I could buy two PCs for the price of 1 mac, and sure the mac is probably built a bit better, but if I need to fix the mac, it could take the better part of a day (if I'm lucky and don't break something), whereas I can be in and out of any other laptop in an hour.

Because it is not of use to you does not make it a bad product. And they are not less useful than a PC for the avarage person, unless they are a hardcore games, but then they would probably default to Windows anyway. It's fine if you don't like them, but they are usually decent and the premium is not as big as people make it out to be when you compare them to equals. Are they for your facebooking grandma? No, not really, but neither is any computer for more than $400-500. So the real issue you have is that they don't do low end things? :confused:

3870x2It is just that the average PC has much more usefulness to the average person. To me it is an inferior product because all I can really do with it is web surfing and play maybe a few games. The fact is I could buy two PCs for the price of 1 mac, and sure the mac is probably built a bit better, but if I need to fix the mac, it could take the better part of a day (if I'm lucky and don't break something), whereas I can be in and out of any other laptop in an hour.

I can't even find myself recommending macs to people who only surf the web, because I am afraid that they might try and do something they know a PC can do, that a mac can't, and be disappointed.

well we are talking about this new mac pro, not the macbook pro.

this new mac pro is pretty sweet and part for part only costs about $400 more than a PC if you built it yourself. now obviously OSX costs a little bit more than Windows 8, the build quality of the mac pro is very good and the first year of support that comes with the purchase is considered the best in the industry. those three things alone make a big difference to someone considering this or a pc.

Easy Rhinowell we are talking about this new mac pro, not the macbook pro.

this new mac pro is pretty sweet and part for part only costs about $400 more than a PC if you built it yourself. now obviously OSX costs a little bit more than Windows 8, the build quality of the mac pro is very good and the first year of support that comes with the purchase is considered the best in the industry. those three things alone make a big difference to someone considering this or a pc.

How is the build quality better? I keep hearing this but from what I understand it uses most types of OEM parts of intel?

brandonwh64How is the build quality better? I keep hearing this but from what I understand it uses most types of OEM parts of intel?

The build quality IS NOT BETTER. That USED to be true. Not anymore.