EarthDogLOL, that was a typo...here is what I said earlier.

Please explain why Turing RTX is in there when you just said its not part of a gaming stack?
How does that compare to the 3090 being in this comparison?

Typo!? Man you're hard to follow now

Yes, a typo... apologies. I said that already... and you're still confused? Zoinks.... o_O

Vayra86Everything is an improvement over Turing, but that still doesn't make it good.

Did I say it was or are you arguing a point I never made? I mean this circular argument is now getting annoying. It's hard to kick a field goal when we're aiming at different goal posts.

EarthDoginflated turing prices are what they are...this feels like an improvement.

^^---- Post 15... I said this on saturday.

Have a good day, bud. :)

EarthDogYes, a typo... apologies. I said that already... and you're still confused? Zoinks.... o_O

Did I say it was or are you arguing a point I never made? I mean this circular argument is now getting annoying. It's hard to kick a field goal when we're aiming at different goal posts.
^^---- Post 15... I said this on saturday.

Have a good day, bud. :)

Look, you asked the question yourself: 'What am I missing'. You're getting the answer but you don't want to hear it, it seems.

And this is strange. But maybe the question was rhetorical, to yourself. Let's leave it at a different interpretation.

Vayra86Look, you asked the question yourself: 'What am I missing'. You're getting the answer but you don't want to hear it, it seems.

And this is strange. But maybe the question was rhetorical, to yourself. Let's leave it at a different interpretation.

Who replaced my vayra86 with vya dumas? :p

No. I heard it, we don't agree that is the answer. We're comparing the product stacks differently and where I say it is an improvement, you've managed to extract that they are 'good' out of my posts. I concede they are 'better' than Turing... not that it was good. Capisci? :)


Cheers for real. :)

EarthDogWho replaced my vayra86 with vya dumas? :p

No. I heard it, we don't agree that is the answer. We're comparing the product stacks differently and where I say it is an improvement, you've managed to extract that they are 'good' out of my posts. I concede they are 'better' than Turing... not that it was good. Capisci? :)


Cheers for real. :)

Point taken and cheers :toast:

The 3090 is much more akin to the Titan than the 3080 ... if the 3090 = the 2080 Ti then where does this fit.

www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-rtx-3080-ti.c3735

Hothwardware did a price comparison in 2017 graphing price of nvidias top consumer card since the year 2000 and found that that they averaged about $700 (all adjusted for inflation to 2017 dollars).

Post 3444 forum.beyond3d.com/threads/nvidia-shows-signs-2008-2017.43294/page-173

Adjusting for inflation, tariffs, pandemic related price increases over 20 years, the 3080/ 3070 are bargains. I can't really place the 3090 here as haven't seen much as yet on how it performs in typical workstation applications.

Vayra86How is early adopter's tax a norm all of a sudden?!

All of a sudden ? .... Not what we have observing this phenomeon over thet since we started building PCs in the early 90s/ We have seen the same with the 2xx and 1xx series ... less so with older products ... new hi-speed RAM releases in particular. But now we live an an age of social media which has greatly exacerbated the situation with consumers drooling like Pavlov's dog for "thumbs up" and "likes" to improve, in their minds, their social standing and "following". Eliminating the early adopter's tax is easy ... don't buy.

There's more than one issue associated with this.

1. When a "fab" produced product 1st hits market yields are lower than they are later on as production line tweaks over time produce better yields. Given the expense to produce newer designs, there's economic pressure to get some money coming in once the product become available. Being 1st to market is not the advantage it appears to be; look what AMD did with their 290 / 290x. Before then, both camps had approximately the same overclocking headroom. Consider that manufacturers have to guarantee advertised performance. So when they clock a card leaving 25% headroom, they can benefit from purchases expecting they can get an an extra 25%, but if it doesn't, then you can't RMA the card. With the 290/290x, AMD very aggressively clocked the cards in the box. They looked at the performance leader, the 780 an using that as a target to beat, and were able to increase the clocks, in the box, to a point higher than the 780 and spent millions advertising that their card was the new performance king. In short, having a known target, they were able to edge the 780, at least out of the box and that's what reviews are based upon. Unfortunately, the 780s had overclocking headroom percentage in the high 20s and the 2xx series was < 5% but it did allow for a big splash in the press.

AMD has that same opportunity now ... with the 3xxx series cards out, they have the opportunity to set clocks as targeting the already released cards performance ... have to wonder ... is nvidia delaying the release of the mid range cards because AMD delayed theirs ?

2. The media's obsession with leaks and being the 1st to "break" new products means consumers are expecting products ... sales of the existing current gen products tank and cut income.

3. With loads of money going out, and income tanking as folks are waiting for the "next big thing", a significant financial pinch is created.

4. This also affects the vendors, they have no money coming in from that segment. They can't sell what they don't have on the shelves, no one wants the old generation so that's sitting on shelves ... in some cases, they can't get them cause they out of production. So what they do have on the shelves, they will sell at a premium as long as folks are still hammering their sites with bots and late nite sniping. Why ? Because they can and they need the money to keep the doors open. If they can't sell 100 products at a $30 profit, maybe they can sell 30 at $100 profit.

Personally, I have never understood the rush to go out and pay exorbitant prices for a product just to be one of the 1st to have it in one's social circles ... especially when your chances of getting a better product for less money increase significantly by waiting till supply catches up with demand. What do we get after spending a few days sniping for new products at midnight ?

a) Unstable driver hassles
b) Potential BIOS upgrades (AMD 480 6 pin cards)
c) Potential cooler design errors (EVGA 970 SC faulty cooler design, EVGA 1xxx SC and FTW missing thermal pads, )
d) Design bugs that won't exist in later steppings such as AMD 480 8-pn cards
e) Won't benefit from performance improvements due to production line tweaks which increase chances in silicon lottery
f) With the number of reviews at such a small number, and with new cards still coming out, have you chosen the best card for your build

I don't have a horse in the race so to speak as, after 28 years of experience, we don't purchase componentry or do any builds including new products out less than 3 months ... sometimes longer. After putting a build list together for the box Im typing from, the motherboard had uses noting various issues in the Asus Forum, that were not resolved till the C3 stepping 5 months later.

But realistically, corporations do what they have to. Corporate officers are required by law to act in the best interests of their shareholders and maximize profits. The assumption that there's good guys and bad guys out there is naive. How each "spins the narrative" will be different depends on their market position and if situation was reversed, they would be doing the exact same thing. No different from politics where one side takes a position when it's to their advatnage and reverses that position when it's to ther other side's advantage.

Simply put, there's only one way to eliminate the early adopters tax ? .... stop buying them. recognize that if they held the product till there was enough stock to quell the early adopter rush, you would not have your card any earlier. Waiting may lead to bridge loans incurring interest expenses or using reserves which would otherwise be gaining interest. If comeone wants to yell at the 'bad guy' because they paid a price premium for a likely lesser card ... Not intending to be harsh but he's close buy at the nearest mirror.

John NaylorThe 3090 is much more akin to the Titan than the 3080 ... if the 3090 = the 2080 Ti then where does this fit.

www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-rtx-3080-ti.c3735

Simple, it fits in the slot where the eternal 'double VRAM' versions of the same card go. Nothing new and has never been worthy of its own 'tier' or anything like it, just a small premium for extra capacity. But, so far this card is unreleased and seems to be nothing but rumor.

John NaylorAll of a sudden ? ....

For Turing, early adopter tax was understandable. For these much smaller chips on nodes that aren't quite so new anymore though? I beg to differ. Remember that the competition has been playing on 7nm for a while now, its not our problem Nvidia is so late with shrinking. (Which it now seems is triple trouble: forced to move to meh 8nm Samsung > pretty bad TDP number, production capacity and yield issues due to new node, a worse competitive outlook than AMD for this gen)...

Meanwhile, it seems the actual benefit and games in which its a major selling point isn't really impressive to say the least. One could question the value of paying that tax by now. And yes, we can 'not buy'... so now we're locked out of two GPU generations like that already ;) Not exactly something to cheer about. Of course its our own choice in the end.

Regardless, the shifting reality where '700 dollars was the norm for a top consumer GPU' is now 'discounting the 3090' (or whatever else the top consumer product is... 2080ti was also vastly more expensive) and 'taking for granted some weaker specs than we'd prefer' (10GB).... that takes some pretty hefty cognitive dissonance I'd say. We're not paying 700 for the top product here. We're paying 700 for a cut down, power hungry product with new tech that's barely being utilized.

Business as usual? Nah. Definitely not.