what is a driver level dll swap?

as in if FSR support is detected and your gpu supports FSR4 it will run that version?

ZoneDymowhat is a driver level dll swap?

as in if FSR support is detected and your gpu supports FSR4 it will run that version?

Hopefully it's like DLSS 2.0 and higher where you can basically swap in a newer improved DLL to existing games making it better. That way when FSR 4.1 or whatever comes out the user can upgrade without the developer needing to patch the game.

ZoneDymowhat is a driver level dll swap

They probably just intercept DLL calls, it's easy to do.

Vya DomusThey probably just intercept DLL calls, it's easy to do.

right but how do you know as a user then what is going on, like if a game has FSR1.0 support...does that turn into FSR4 when running capable hardware? and if so what if you actually want FSR1? or can you maybe in the driver set it to switch automatically or an a per game basis?

ZoneDymoright but how do you know as a user then what is going on, like if a game has FSR1.0 support...does that turn into FSR4 when running capable hardware? and if so what if you actually want FSR1? or can you maybe in the driver set it to switch automatically or an a per game basis?

They say this only works for FSR 3.1 because that's the only one packaged as a DLL as far as I know, I don't see how this would be a problem if it's just automatically using FSR4.

Perhaps the dll has support for different FSR versions packaged together so if if a game supports one it can support either?

Next to see just how far it has come. Has it overtaken XMX XeSS? matched DLSS3? exceeded it? caught all the way up to Transformer? (doubt, but I'm happy to be pleasantly surprised). Time will tell.

Don't hear many people saying tensor cores are useless anymore either.

If FSR 4 and DLSS 4 really look as good as people say, I might get behind the technology. But considering how much upscaling has been praised and I still haven't found it to be particularly good, I have my doubts. We'll see.

AusWolfIf FSR 4 and DLSS 4 really look as good as people say, I might get behind the technology. But considering how much upscaling has been praised and I still haven't found it to be particularly good, I have my doubts. We'll see.

Most people who love it game at 4k and if you look closely at most comparisons TAA is terrible more than DLSS is amazing not that the game would look very good without TAA either.

To me at least it's seems easier for developers to get a good DLSS implementation vs a good TAA one

I still doubt at 1080p it'll be usable and 1440p will likely still need to be set to quality or DLAA.

With FSR 4 my hope is the same that its essy to get a solid implementation the main issue with FSR 2/3 is developers arent very good at implementing it without a ton of shimmering and occlusion artifacts. Hopefully it's easy for the end user to upgrade the DLL like with DLSS because even with DLSS developers don't always update to the latest version and that talkes all of a couple minutes.

wolfNext to see just how far it has come. Has it overtaken XMX XeSS? matched DLSS3? exceeded it? caught all the way up to Transformer? (doubt, but I'm happy to be pleasantly surprised). Time will tell.

Don't hear many people saying tensor cores are useless anymore either.

If they can just catch up to the latest CNN model that would be a huge jump and would make lower FSR settings like balanced and performance more usable depending on base resolution.

oxrufiioxoIf they can just catch up to the latest CNN model that would be a huge jump and would make lower FSR settings like balanced and performance more usable depending on base resolution.

Very much so, it'll be a massive positive for 9070+ buyers if it's even matched CNN. Transformer could make it a tougher sell for anyone already upgrading from an RTX card this gen and already knows how good that looks though, yet I doubt comparisons to FSR4 will come before a many a 50 series card is sold. I can see why Nvidia has announced the enhancement early, to get in ahead of AMD's launch which ... well was it ever going to land first? I feel like AMD was primed for some conversions this generation that now, due to at least two factors (delayed launch and prices woes, Transformer model), could be dampened somewhat.

wolfVery much so, it'll be a massive positive for 9070+ buyers if it's even matched CNN. Transformer could make it a tougher sell for anyone already upgrading from an RTX card this gen and already knows how good that looks though, yet I doubt comparisons to FSR4 will come before a many a 50 series card is sold. I can see why Nvidia has announced the enhancement early, to get in ahead of AMD's launch which ... well was it ever going to land first? I feel like AMD was primed for some conversions this generation that now, due to at least two factors (delayed launch and prices woes, Transformer model), could be dampened somewhat.

I think the 5070 will be unappealing to most my guess is 4070 super performance and most have been able to grab that for a year already for a 50 usd premium..... I doubt gamers are going to be oh great 20% better than the 4070 vanilla 2 years later for 550 but still 12GB of vram..... I'm not saying 12GB is not enough but if someone is spending 500+ Vram shouldn't be a concern whatsoever maybe I am in the minority but I would never recommend it most don't upgrade every gen and high resolution textures are an easy win if you have enough vram.

That being said I expect AMD to fully fumble the 9070XT launch somehow it's what they do.

oxrufiioxoI think the 5070 will be unappealing to most my guess is 4070 super performance and most have been able to grab that for a year already for a 50 usd premium..... I doubt gamers are going to be oh great 20% better than the 4070 vanilla 2 years later for 550 but still 12GB of vram..... I'm not saying 12GB is enough but if someone is spending 500+ Vram shouldn't be a concern whatsoever maybe I am in the minority but I would never recommend it most don't upgrade every gen and high resolution textures are an easy win if you have enough vram.

5070 is the one in no mans land imo, doubt I'd be recommending it to anyone. I expect the 5070Ti to move well and then units to move decreasingly well up the stack, but those buyers seem to be happy enough paying disproportionately more money for their perf anyway. Like usual though launch stock of any should evaporate, it's the coming 3 or so months that start to paint a better picture.

Is it looking like the 9070XT is more a 5070 or 5070Ti competitor? I'm not sure where the current leaks for either place them, but I'd assume it falls between the two? If it's a 5070Ti match things could get nicely spicy in the market.

oxrufiioxoThat being said I expect AMD to fully fumble the 9070XT launch somehow it's what they do.

Well imo they already have. What's left now is to salvage it as much as they can with things like this (FSR4 polish/support), , ironing out any and all bugs and issues that could be present at launch (seriously, even something small gives a window for driver criticism they can't afford), building a large inventory and hopefully not just being NVidia price, minus a few dollars. If what this article claims is executed and executed well, there's healthy stock and an appealing price, they'll move plenty just fine. There's a decent enough baked in pool of buyers that have already decided one way or another that AMD has them covered - but again I wonder how they'll do with conversions. Lots of water will flow under the proverbial bridge between now and launch so it's very hard to predict.

wolfWell imo they already have. What's left now is to salvage it as much as they can with things like this (FSR4 polish/support), , ironing out any and all bugs and issues that could be present at launch (seriously, even something small gives a window for driver criticism they can't afford), building a large inventory and hopefully not just being NVidia price, minus a few dollars. If what this article claims is executed and executed well, there's healthy stock and an appealing price, they'll move plenty just fine. There's a decent enough baked in pool of buyers that have already decided one way or another that AMD has them covered - but again I wonder how they'll do with conversions. Lots of water will flow under the proverbial bridge between now and launch so it's very hard to predict.

As long as they use those two months to perfect FSR4 and possibly announce somthing to combat MFG. I'm not sure going before Nvidia would have been the best play regardless and while I think they should have more confidence that being said even had they went first the majority would have waited for Nvidia anyways the 70 class launch isn't very far away and we already know base prices the rumor is they were gonna launch the 9070 at much higher prices hopefully it comes out and it's awesome and everything will work itself out.

I'm willing to see what they actually produce, but won't just blindly follow.

AusWolfIf FSR 4 and DLSS 4 really look as good as people say, I might get behind the technology. But considering how much upscaling has been praised and I still haven't found it to be particularly good, I have my doubts. We'll see.

Night and day difference.
+ more FPS = smooth gaming

oxrufiioxoMost people who love it game at 4k and if you look closely at most comparisons TAA is terrible more than DLSS is amazing not that the game would look very good without TAA either.

To me at least it's seems easier for developers to get a good DLSS implementation vs a good TAA one

I still doubt at 1080p it'll be usable and 1440p will likely still need to be set to quality or DLAA.

With FSR 4 my hope is the same that its essy to get a solid implementation the main issue with FSR 2/3 is developers arent very good at implementing it without a ton of shimmering and occlusion artifacts. Hopefully it's easy for the end user to upgrade the DLL like with DLSS because even with DLSS developers don't always update to the latest version and that talkes all of a couple minutes.



If they can just catch up to the latest CNN model that would be a huge jump and would make lower FSR settings like balanced and performance more usable depending on base resolution.

One more who never try DLSS? Only Amd FSR?

1080p DLSS Quality looks better Vs bad TAA native
+ more free FPS = smooth gaming.

Bit disappointing Cyberpunk only got FSR 3.0, I wouldn't mind trying FSR 4 to see what it looks like (if it does come to my card of course) and I think it'd make a good testbed. I think I can try it in STALKER 2 when it releases?

Either way, it'll just be for testing, I always prefer native :)

DaworaNight and day difference.
+ more FPS = smooth gaming

Yes, as long as your game isn't a blurry mess.

AMD and Intel should team up on this upscaling development part.

NhonhoAMD and Intel should team up on this upscaling development part.

Amd fanboys would blow a gasket if that ever happened.... They hate both Green/Blue like they are the cause of all that is wrong in this world...

oxrufiioxoAmd fanboys would blow a gasket if that ever happened.... They hate both Green/Blue like they are the cause of all that is wrong in this world...

I'm glad there hasn't been any fanboy talk / throwing shit at other forum members in this thread so far, I'd hope to keep it that way, please. No need to invite trouble before it finds you.

NhonhoAMD and Intel should team up on this upscaling development part.

I think everybody should team up and create an industry standard like DirectX or OpenGL and call it OpenUpscale or something.

Hardware-dependent closed solutions are hurting gaming - they're only good for increasing mindshare and revenue of a single company.

AusWolfI think everybody should team up and create an industry standard like DirectX or OpenGL and call it OpenUpscale or something.

Hardware-dependent closed solutions are hurting gaming - they're only good for increasing mindshare and revenue of a single company.

This... Its only a matter of time. Right now though? Its an active unique selling point for Nvidia, AMD and Intel. And we have all the donkeys chasing the carrot, see above.

AusWolfI'm glad there hasn't been any fanboy talk / throwing shit at other forum members in this thread so far, I'd hope to keep it that way, please. No need to invite trouble before it finds you.

I yearn for this kind of advocacy in Nvidia threads... I'll keep holding my breath.

As for the actual topic at hand, at least so far it hasn't gone the way many would insist it would have by now (killed by open standards broadly speaking). I'm certainly not against that, but I don't see an ML open standard emerging anytime soon - but I'd be very happy to see it happen. We can hope, but until then there's at least a competitive landscape.

wolfI yearn for this kind of advocacy in Nvidia threads... I'll keep holding my breath.

As for the actual topic at hand, at least so far it hasn't gone the way many would insist it would have by now (killed by open standards broadly speaking). I'm certainly not against that, but I don't see an ML open standard emerging anytime soon - but I'd be very happy to see it happen. We can hope, but until then there's at least a competitive landscape.

Wasn't open and democratized the name of the game with this swanky new cons00mer AI? ;)

It'll happen once there is no fruit left, and I think that'll be sooner rather than later. Look at how fast AMD is chasing now with featureset. If there is nothing that sets these upscalers apart, there's no point wasting money on three approaches anymore.

Vayra86Wasn't open and democratized the name of the game with this swanky new cons00mer AI? ;)

It'll happen once there is no fruit left, and I think that'll be sooner rather than later. Look at how fast AMD is chasing now with featureset. If there is nothing that sets these upscalers apart, there's no point wasting money on three approaches anymore.

I've said the same a couple of days ago, as long as there are still leaps and R&D to be done on these technologies, they won't become open. Once we hit a hardwall, no reason not to.

It's not in consumer interest for them to become open right now.

Vayra86It'll happen once there is no fruit left, and I think that'll be sooner rather than later

Time will tell won't it, Till then we can enjoy the race to push each the technology through competition, and perhaps a few I told you so's along the way from both uhhh 'sides'.