Intel Appeals Against EU Antitrust Verdict

Sugarush · Jul 28, 2009

FordGT90Concept said:
The majority of Russia is in Asia.

The case isn't clear enough to provide "real proof." We would first have to establish who set up this agreement--was it "manufacturer C" or Intel? We would then have to look at the sales figures to see if AMD really lost out because of this agreement. At least in the USA, anti-competitive behavior in "refusal to deal" cases is determined by the damage done to the competition. Here's an example...

It could be determined that "manufacture C" arranged the agreement, or Intel, or both. All of which is irrelevant unless AMD was threatened by the deal.

Intel set the agreements up: they profited from these agreements, the could sell more chips, but most importantly cap AMD's market share establishing a quasi monopoly.

The thing is, it's a case of EU vs. Intel. Hence the fine isn't a compensation of AMD's lost profits but a penalty for breaking the law and hurting consumers. So AMD's lost profit are irrelevant in this case, and so is the US competition law.

Wile E said:
Where's your real proof?

This whole issue is "he said, she said". Very little proof from either side.

So you're saying the whole case is based on hearsay? Don't you think that would be Intel's first line of defense then?

Btw, I thought you didn't wanna post until some new facts come up?

Intel offered those rebates which were illegal under competition law of the EU. They were charged and found guilty.
Just because some people don't agree with the law itself they start to come up with conspiracy theories.

FordGT90Concept · Jul 28, 2009

Sugarush said:
Intel set the agreements up: they profited from these agreements, the could sell more chips, but most importantly cap AMD's market share establishing a quasi monopoly.

The thing is, it's a case of EU vs. Intel. Hence the fine isn't a compensation of AMD's lost profits but a penalty for breaking the law and hurting consumers. So AMD's lost profit are irrelevant in this case, and so is the US competition law.

They have to prove that AMD was threatened by this agreement. Considering AMD's marketshare steadily climbed during that period (peaking in mid-2005), I'd say it didn't. Case closed--just a normal agreement between Intel and "manufacturer C"--not antitrust.

At least that's how it works in the USA. I'm not going to argue EU law because EU law is anti-business; therefore, I argue the EU laws are unfair/anti-competitive. Knowing the USA antitrust law, I'll say that the FTC is going to be hard pressed rule against Intel on this one. If they do, Intel has a good chance at appealing it.

Sugarush · Jul 28, 2009

FordGT90Concept said:
They have to prove that AMD was threatened by this agreement. Considering AMD's marketshare steadily climbed during that period (peaking in mid-2005), I'd say it didn't. Case closed--just a normal agreement between Intel and "manufacturer C"--not antitrust.

No they don't. The case is first of all about the consumer's choice. So they just had to prove that Intel prevented AMD's (their only competitor) market exposure sufficiently, and hence reduced the average consumer's choice.

And obviously you can grow all the way you want, up to 20% or less, i.e. up to where Intel lets you.

FordGT90Concept · Jul 28, 2009

Antitrust has nothing to do with consumer choice and everything to do with one business leveraging their position against another.

I'm not going to comment anymore until I see the 500 page report filed by the EU. Right now, we can only argue hypotheticals.

Sugarush · Jul 28, 2009

FordGT90Concept said:
Antitrust has nothing to do with consumer choice and everything to do with one business leveraging their position against another.

I'm not going to comment anymore until I see the 500 page report filed by the EU. Right now, we can only argue hypotheticals.

You're a bit off there:

"Competition law, known in the United States as antitrust law, has three main elements:

* prohibiting agreements or practices that restrict free trading and competition between business entities. This includes in particular the repression of cartels.
* banning abusive behavior by a firm dominating a market, or anti-competitive practices that tend to lead to such a dominant position. Practices controlled in this way may include predatory pricing, tying, price gouging, refusal to deal, and many others.
* supervising the mergers and acquisitions of large corporations, including some joint ventures. Transactions that are considered to threaten the competitive process can be prohibited altogether, or approved subject to "remedies" such as an obligation to divest part of the merged business or to offer licenses or access to facilities to enable other businesses to continue competing.

The substance and practice of competition law varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Protecting the interests of consumers (consumer welfare) and ensuring that entrepreneurs have an opportunity to compete in the market economy are often treated as important objectives."

HalfAHertz · Jul 28, 2009

I'm just amazed how long this argumanet (or discussion if you may) has continued for.

mdm-adph · Jul 28, 2009

HalfAHertz said:
I'm just amazed how long this argumanet (or discussion if you may) has continued for.

They always do. As long as they stay somewhat civil, they're usually pretty good.

TheMailMan78 · Jul 28, 2009

mdm-adph said:
They always do. As long as they stay somewhat civil, they're usually pretty good.

Then you have me who ties it to Socialism somehow. Its like my job now. :laugh:

mdm-adph · Jul 28, 2009

TheMailMan78 said:
Then you have me who ties it to Socialism somehow. Its like my job now.

Well, Hegel did theorize that Socialism was the final product of civilization, after feudalism and capitalism, respectively. :laugh:

I'm not surprised that as the world gets more advanced, you're starting to make more and more connections to it.

TheMailMan78 · Jul 28, 2009

mdm-adph said:
Well, Hegel did theorize that Socialism was the final product of civilization, after feudalism and capitalism, respectively.

I'm not surprised that as the world gets more advanced, you're starting to make more and more connections to it.

No I think they stop teaching history in public schools. Thats why we are seeing more of it

HalfAHertz · Jul 28, 2009

Aww come on now, have you visited any socialst oriented contries lately? I'm pretty sure you'll love it

You should try any of the skandinavian countries, it's almost time for the August festivals.

mdm-adph · Jul 28, 2009

HalfAHertz said:
Aww come on now, have you visited any socialst oriented contries lately? I'm pretty sure you'll love it You should try any of the skandinavian countries, it's almost time for the August festivals.

In America you're apparently taught that Scandinavian countries (and other Socialist European countries) are depressed, poverty-stricken places, full of hungry people that die by the millions.

The reality is so far from what Americans are taught that it's hilarious.

TheMailMan78 said:
No I think they stop teaching history in public schools. Thats why we are seeing more of it

American-style history? I prove my point.

TheMailMan78 · Jul 28, 2009

mdm-adph said:
In America you're apparently taught that Scandinavian countries (and other Socialist European countries) are depressed, poverty-stricken places, full of hungry people that die by the millions.

The reality is so far from what Americans are taught that it's hilarious.

American-style history? I prove my point.

You are not taught that at all. Don't be dramatic. Would you like to see some of my photos of Venezuela? I would post some from my last trip down there if their "customs" wouldn't have confiscated them from me. And no. That isnt a joke. There was even talk I was an "American propaganda agent". I was not looking forward to a Venezuelan jail.

Also tell me what was so "hilarious" that you learned in school that was far from the truth? Damn I hate you mdm-adph. You always get me started.

erocker · Jul 28, 2009

mdm-adph said:
In America you're apparently taught that Scandinavian countries (and other Socialist European countries) are depressed, poverty-stricken places, full of hungry people that die by the millions.

The reality is so far from what Americans are taught that it's hilarious.

American-style history? I prove my point.

I went to school in America, the United States to be more exact and this is not the case. Stop making baseless assumptions especially when they are completely off topic.

STAY ON TOPIC all of you.

TheMailMan78 · Jul 28, 2009

erocker said:
I went to school in America, the United States to be more exact and this is not the case. Stop making baseless assumptions especially when they are completely off topic.

STAY ON TOPIC all of you.

<<Snaps his heel's

SIR, YES SIR!

mdm-adph · Jul 28, 2009

TheMailMan78 said:
You are not taught that at all. Don't be dramatic. Would you like to see some of my photos of Venezuela? I would post some from my last trip down there if their "customs" wouldn't have confiscated them from me. And no. That isnt a joke. There was even talk I was an "American propaganda agent". I was not looking forward to a Venezuelan jail.

Also tell me what was so "hilarious" that you learned in school that was far from the truth? Damn I hate you mdm-adph. You always get me started.

erocker said:
I went to school in America, the United States to be more exact and this is not the case. Stop making baseless assumptions especially when they are completely off topic.

STAY ON TOPIC all of you.

Both of you -- I watch a lot of FoxNews (to quote the movie Red October, "it's wise to know the ways of one's enemies."), and I don't think my accusations fall very far from the truth as to what that channel tells me is apparently believed in America. :laugh:

It's a very popular channel in the US (though oddly enough run by an Australian, for what it's worth :wtf:

), so I think I speak for plenty of people.

Apparently, EU-style government regulation (the topic of this article) is terrible and horrible, and countries run in that style are doomed to be full of failed business and poverty.

Then, I look at what life is actually like in the EU, and I realize that it's all crap.

erocker · Jul 28, 2009

mdm-adph said:
Both of you -- I watch a lot of FoxNews (to quote the movie Red October, "it's wise to know the ways of one's enemies."), and I don't think my accusations fall very far from the truth as to what that channel tells me is apparently believed in America. It's a very popular channel in the US (though oddly enough run by an Australian, for what it's worth ), so I think I speak for plenty of people.

Apparently, EU-style government regulation (the topic of this article) is terrible and horrible, and countries run in that style are doomed to be full of failed business and poverty.

Then, I look at what life is actually like in the EU, and I realize that it's all crap.

Just keep telling yourself that and know in your head that all of the information you have is correct. Just be happy. I'm happy. I love where I live and I hope you love where you reside as well. In all honestly it's not my place to tell someone else in some other country how to live, nor will I listen to someone from another country or area telling me how to live. We should (for the lack of a better term) celebrate our differences instead of condemning them. When it comes to a global corporation, let them worry about differences between cultures, if they choose to sell in a country that isn't the ideal market, that is their prerogative. Seriously, tune out cable news networks, they are an utter joke and the worst form of "journalism" ever created.

DaedalusHelios · Jul 28, 2009

mdm-adph said:
Both of you -- I watch a lot of FoxNews (to quote the movie Red October, "it's wise to know the ways of one's enemies."), and I don't think my accusations fall very far from the truth as to what that channel tells me is apparently believed in America. It's a very popular channel in the US (though oddly enough run by an Australian, for what it's worth ), so I think I speak for plenty of people.

Apparently, EU-style government regulation (the topic of this article) is terrible and horrible, and countries run in that style are doomed to be full of failed business and poverty.

Then, I look at what life is actually like in the EU, and I realize that it's all crap.

You are way off assuming all of the USA enjoys Fox News. Its a republican political party News Source.

Most anyone who is an independent, intellectual, democrat, or Green Party will not watch it.

Fox News has an agenda. Some people agree with the agenda, and others do not. I personally do not like Fox News but some people really enjoy it because it breaks things down really basic and does the thinking for you.

I prefer AP, reuters, and NPR personally.

Ben_UK · Jul 28, 2009

Isn't it the case that if you appeal a verdict and you fail at the appeal, you can then be slapped with an even bigger punishment if you had just not bothered appealing in the first place?

Meecrob · Jul 28, 2009

DaedalusHelios said:
You are way off assuming all of the USA enjoys Fox News. Its a republican political party News Source.

Most anyone who is an independent, intellectual, democrat, or Green Party will not watch it.

Fox News has an agenda. Some people agree with the agenda, and others do not. I personally do not like Fox News but some people really enjoy it because it breaks things down really basic and does the thinking for you.

I prefer AP, reuters, and NPR personally.

it has to, most people who watch it can barly tie their shoes, let alone think for themselves.

Meecrob · Jul 28, 2009

erocker said:
I went to school in America, the United States to be more exact and this is not the case. Stop making baseless assumptions especially when they are completely off topic.

STAY ON TOPIC all of you.

well, its not so much taught in schools and shown on the news(mostly by fox and other republican/concentrative sources) that socialism is evil and will destroy the world.

mdm-adph · Jul 28, 2009

DaedalusHelios said:
You are way off assuming all of the USA enjoys Fox News. Its a republican political party News Source.

Most anyone who is an independent, intellectual, democrat, or Green Party will not watch it.

Fox News has an agenda. Some people agree with the agenda, and others do not. I personally do not like Fox News but some people really enjoy it because it breaks things down really basic and does the thinking for you.

I prefer AP, reuters, and NPR personally.

But Fox News says that the AP, Reuters, and NPR are all bastions of Socialist-Liberal thought! :laugh:

Who do we believe?

Ben_UK said:
Isn't it the case that if you appeal a verdict and you fail at the appeal, you can then be slapped with an even bigger punishment if you had just not bothered appealing in the first place?

Not if you appeal the appeal.

TheMailMan78 · Jul 28, 2009

Meecrob said:
well, its not so much taught in schools and shown on the news(mostly by fox and other republican/concentrative sources) that socialism is evil and will destroy the world.

How assuming and insulting you are. You have a major inferiority complex my friend. What are you physically disabled or something? I mean even since you have joined you have spewed nothing but venom at people opinions and statements with nothing but you're all mighty opinion as "proof". If someone enjoys watching a news network its their choice but by no means does it make you a superior person because you don't.

My Father was working with electronics before you could wipe your ass I bet and he enjoys watching the news. All of them. You know why? Because he thinks they are funny. He also believes in God so I guess that makes him inferior to you also. However you would be swinging from his balls in 1969 as he flew GIs out of harms way.

I know I bit the troll bait by responding to your dumb ass and Ill get an infraction for it too. But you know what Meecrob? You are an arrogant smart mouth that needs to get laid.

FYI I like the BBC.

El Fiendo · Jul 28, 2009

I know its off topic, but you make me smile.

Thanks.

DaedalusHelios · Jul 28, 2009

Meecrob said:
well, its not so much taught in schools and shown on the news(mostly by fox and other republican/concentrative sources) that socialism is evil and will destroy the world.

Its definately not taught in schools. Only on really rare occasions you will find a teacher to agree with the "Socialism is evil" propaganda.

Yes, Fox News and republican news sources spread that fear around but its part of that republican political platform. I personally do not agree with it but it is a part of their culture now. Reagan long before he ran for any political office, was part of a propaganda machine against socialism where they sent records(audio records accompanied by papers) to millions of households that talked about the "evils of socialism". Much like Joseph McCarthy's politics.

I am not sure what you are getting at though. :confused:

You really have to look at the history of healthcare in the USA to understand the original reasons for why we did not create a NHS too.

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Intel Appeals Against EU Antitrust Verdict

Sugarush

FordGT90Concept

"I go fast!1!11!1!"

Sugarush

FordGT90Concept

"I go fast!1!11!1!"

Sugarush

HalfAHertz

mdm-adph

TheMailMan78

Big Member

mdm-adph

TheMailMan78

Big Member

HalfAHertz

mdm-adph

TheMailMan78

Big Member

erocker

*

TheMailMan78

Big Member

mdm-adph

erocker

*

DaedalusHelios

Ben_UK

Meecrob

New Member

Meecrob

New Member

mdm-adph

TheMailMan78

Big Member

El Fiendo

DaedalusHelios

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