Gates Downplays Chrome OS

[Meecrob]

lol. And again, you show your childishness by insinuating I am an extremist to try to sway people to your point. Nice (failed) attempt.

nope , i just give up, your right, linux is useless shit, to hard for any normal person to use.

and osx and windows are dreams that never have any real problems.

 

[Dippyskoodlez]

nope , i just give up, your right, linux is useless shit, to hard for any normal person to use.

You're a fool to say otherwise.

Linux is still in usability hell for the non pc-literate. Not even uBuntu has broken that barrier yet. Close, but not quite.

And I've yet to actually find something that you click the "install script" to install. Not with default settings, anyways.

dpkg -i package is by far the best install method to date, but still too complex for the average user. The only reason Linux is as far as it is today with the idiot crowd, is because they're ale to pre-package -EVERYTHING- 90% of people need with the initial install, whereas OS X and Windows cannot.

 

[Meecrob]

http://www.xandros.com/

 

[mdm-adph]

You're a fool to say otherwise.

Linux is still in usability hell for the non pc-literate. Not even uBuntu has broken that barrier yet. Close, but not quite.

And I've yet to actually find something that you click the "install script" to install. Not with default settings, anyways.

dpkg -i package is by far the best install method to date, but still too complex for the average user. The only reason Linux is as far as it is today with the idiot crowd, is because they're ale to pre-package -EVERYTHING- 90% of people need with the initial install, whereas OS X and Windows cannot.

I've never used the command line to install anything on Ubuntu. I've found that .deb files work exactly like .exe files in Windows -- was your installation of Ubuntu damaged in some way?

 

[Meecrob]

I've never used the command line to install anything on Ubuntu. I've found that .deb files work exactly like .exe files in Windows -- was your installation of Ubuntu damaged in some way?

no, your lieing, linux is never user friendly, never easy to use, and never easy to manage, just admit your lieing and give them the respect they want/demand.

linux is trash, useless to anybody with less then a phd in computer sciences.

your constantly stuck using command line for everything, none of the apps have the right names, oh yeah and installing spyware/addware/malware is just way to hard.....it should be automatic!!!

 

[mdm-adph]

no, your lieing, linux is never user friendly, never easy to use, and never easy to manage, just admit your lieing and give them the respect they want/demand.

linux is trash, useless to anybody with less then a phd in computer sciences.

your constantly stuck using command line for everything, none of the apps have the right names, oh yeah and installing spyware/addware/malware is just way to hard.....it should be automatic!!!

You're right! I've never been able to install any spyware/addware/malware on my Ubuntu machines -- I don't even run antivirus software.

 

[Dippyskoodlez]

I've never used the command line to install anything on Ubuntu. I've found that .deb files work exactly like .exe files in Windows -- was your installation of Ubuntu damaged in some way?

YAY dependencies?

Easy, and reliable to use.

After you decipher the 3 missing dependencies.

 

[mdm-adph]

http://www.hostthenpost.org/uploads/cd434af59fe2b132be27122454981fdf.png

YAY dependencies?

You wouldn't expect to install a program meant for Windows Vista on Windows XP, either.

If you're having dependency problems, it's either:

A) You're trying to install an application meant for another version of Ubuntu.

B) The application you're trying to install wasn't correctly packaged.

C) Your install of Ubuntu has been damaged -- if you're trying to tinker with Ubuntu in a VM like it looks like you are, this wouldn't surprise me, as that's what VM's are for.

What version of Ubuntu are you trying to run, and what program isn't installing correctly? I could probably help, but if you ask me, you should stick to installing applications found in Ubuntu's "App Store" (the "Add/Remove Programs" menu item).

 

[Dippyskoodlez]

You wouldn't expect to install a program meant for Windows Vista on Windows XP, either.

If you're having dependency problems, it's either:

A) You're trying to install an application meant for another version of Ubuntu.

B) The application you're trying to install wasn't correctly packaged.

C) Your install of Ubuntu has been damaged -- if you're trying to tinker with Ubuntu in a VM like it looks like you are, this wouldn't surprise me, as that's what VM's are for.

What version of Ubuntu are you trying to run, and what program isn't installing correctly? I could probably help, but if you ask me, you should stick to installing applications found in Ubuntu's "App Store" (the "Add/Remove Programs" menu item).

It is a fresh 9.04 CD. This CD verfies via checksum, it is not damaged, and works fine. All of the information you asked is in the screenshot. aTunes .DEB download from their homepage. And I can vouch that this is packaged perfectly fine, because I installed this in my install of Linux Mint. Mint 7, which is JAUNTY BASED.

The difference is Linux Mint packages any/every codec they can get their hands on including mPlayer and VLC with the Distro. uBuntu does not. The definition of "Dependency hell". I thought Linux was easy and user friendly?

DEBs work just like EXE's? Not so much. All I want is aTunes! Why am I restricted to Ubuntu approved apps?

 

[Meecrob]

http://www.hostthenpost.org/uploads/cd434af59fe2b132be27122454981fdf.png

YAY dependencies?

Easy, and reliable to use.

After you decipher the 3 missing dependencies.

try to figuar out why kalonline wont run when it just gives you a random hex code error.

turns out you need visual c++ runtimes installed (the 2005 version!!!) but good luck figuring that out, nowhere does it explain that and there are no online sources for help on the error.

it also effects a huge stack of other apps and games, hell visual basic errors are still common on little apps people make, saying you need some ocx or oxc or whatever file, again good luck as a noob figuring that out.

in one way linux(most distros) are better is that at least they tell you that your missing dependencies, unlike windows where u can spend hours/days/weeks trying to figuar out why that one app just wont run.

try it yourself, install kalonline without any visual c runtimes and see how easy it is to track down why the game crashes/wont work, I use it as an example because its 1. free, 2. easy to get 3. one i KNOW will give u hell.

then tell me windows dosnt have dependences.

 

[Dippyskoodlez]

then tell me windows dosnt have dependences.

Windows dependencies suck too

However, 99% of the programs that need something come with an installer for an install that isnt network connected. (Especially games.)

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Yup, almost every game has at least DirectX Run-Time installer on the disk. About 1/4 of them have Microsoft Visual C++ 2005 installer too.

 

[mdm-adph]

It is a fresh 9.04 CD. This CD verfies via checksum, it is not damaged, and works fine. All of the information you asked is in the screenshot. aTunes .DEB download from their homepage. And I can vouch that this is packaged perfectly fine, because I installed this in my install of Linux Mint. Mint 7, which is JAUNTY BASED.

The difference is Linux Mint packages any/every codec they can get their hands on including mPlayer and VLC with the Distro. uBuntu does not. The definition of "Dependency hell". I thought Linux was easy and user friendly?

Linux Mint may be based on Ubuntu 9.04, but it's not Ubuntu 9.04. I don't know what the makers of Linux Mint have done regarding the packages that are present, but there's obviously something extra they've done. You can't blame Ubuntu for this.

All I can tell you is that the maker of aTunes is NOT packaging up his .DEB file correctly, because -- and this is just my own experience, YMMV -- in my four years now of working with Ubuntu, I've never had package dependency problems unless I was trying to install something that wasn't meant for the version of Ubuntu I was using at the time.

All I can tell you is to try posting a message on aTunes' message board (I'm sure they've got some kind of bug reporter), but don't worry -- the problem isn't caused by either you or Ubuntu, you're blameless.

DEBs work just like EXE's? Not so much. All I want is aTunes! Why am I restricted to Ubuntu approved apps?

You're not!

However, just like when you install an unsupported app on a Blackberry or Windows Mobile (or crack your iPhone), it's up to you to fix your own problems by that point.

This is why the founder of Ubuntu (Mark Shuttleworth) keeps banging his head against the wall because people don't seem to understand that Ubuntu *is not a replacement for Windows* -- the practices and behaviors you're used to with Windows aren't going to be the same. You get pre-installed apps that do almost everything you need with Ubuntu (like, instead of trying to install a music manager like you are, try using the pre-installed Rhythmbox application) -- there's no need to get frustrated over installing things you find on the internet.

 

[Meecrob]

Windows dependencies suck too

However, 99% of the programs that need something come with an installer for an install that isnt network connected. (Especially games.)

not really true the good ones have the dependences in the installer, but the same is true for lunux apps/repositories the good ones dont need you to decipher dependencies its all there for you.

Yup, almost every game has at least DirectX Run-Time installer on the disk. About 1/4 of them have Microsoft Visual C++ 2005 installer too.

try "almost every retail game" alot of free games and downloadable games, hell even a good number of retail games lack the dx installer on the disk ASSuming that the gamer/user has that installed already.

cant tell you how many times i have had to explain to people on vista that they need to download and install the dx9 runtimes because some game they bought dosnt got the dx installer on it.....frustrating!!!

 

[Wile E]

Linux Mint may be based on Ubuntu 9.04, but it's not Ubuntu 9.04. I don't know what the makers of Linux Mint have done regarding the packages that are present, but there's obviously something extra they've done. You can't blame Ubuntu for this.

All I can tell you is that the maker of aTunes is NOT packaging up his .DEB file correctly, because -- and this is just my own experience, YMMV -- in my four years now of working with Ubuntu, I've never had package dependency problems unless I was trying to install something that wasn't meant for the version of Ubuntu I was using at the time.

All I can tell you is to try posting a message on aTunes' message board (I'm sure they've got some kind of bug reporter), but don't worry -- the problem isn't caused by either you or Ubuntu, you're blameless.



You're not!

However, just like when you install an unsupported app on a Blackberry or Windows Mobile (or crack your iPhone), it's up to you to fix your own problems by that point.

This is why the founder of Ubuntu (Mark Shuttleworth) keeps banging his head against the wall because people don't seem to understand that Ubuntu *is not a replacement for Windows* -- the practices and behaviors you're used to with Windows aren't going to be the same. You get pre-installed apps that do almost everything you need with Ubuntu (like, instead of trying to install a music manager like you are, try using the pre-installed Rhythmbox application) -- there's no need to get frustrated over installing things you find on the internet.

"Just use what's already there" is the biggest copout there is. I don't want to use what's there, I want to use exactly what I chose to use, not what some distro devs said I should use.

And if Linux wants to actually get somewhere, they need to be more like windows in ease of installing. I should be able to download just about any linux program, double click it, and it installs, regardless of the distro I choose to use. Until that happens, Linux is never going to gain meaningful market share.

Yes, some programs require dependencies, regardless of platform, that's a given. However, it happens a hell of a lot more in Linux. Whether you or meecrob want to admit it or not, it's a fact.

 

[mdm-adph]

"Just use what's already there" is the biggest copout there is. I don't want to use what's there, I want to use exactly what I chose to use, not what some distro devs said I should use.

And if Linux wants to actually get somewhere, they need to be more like windows in ease of installing. I should be able to download just about any linux program, double click it, and it installs, regardless of the distro I choose to use. Until that happens, Linux is never going to gain meaningful market share.

Yes, some programs require dependencies, regardless of platform, that's a given. However, it happens a hell of a lot more in Linux. Whether you or meecrob want to admit it or not, it's a fact.

1) You're the odd one there. There's a reason why the iPhone is quickly becoming the most popular smartphone out there -- people don't want to bother with wondering "is a program going to work" or not. It's not a copout -- it's the new way of doing business and pleasing your customers.

You're an enthusiast -- you have to be aware of the fact that the way you "like doings things" on a computer is NOT the way that most other people. Jesus, man -- there's a reason why IE is the most popular browser out there. People DO just want to use "what's already there."

2) NO. Ubuntu does NOT need to be more like Windows. :shadedshu You can't beat Windows on their own turf -- every good businessman knows this. It's been too long that they've held their monopoly -- they've got far too many people locked in.

You can't beat them -- you can only expand into markets that they don't already own.

3) Like I said, YMMV, but I've encountered just as much dependency problems on Windows as I have from Ubuntu over the years.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

You're the odd one there. There's a reason why the iPhone is quickly becoming the most popular smartphone out there -- people don't want to bother with wondering "is a program going to work" or not. It's not a copout -- it's the new way of doing business and pleasing your customers.

I think that has more to do with Steve Jobs not dying than anything. Give it a quarter or two more and see if it flatlines/falls.



I think you can beat Microsoft at their own game (Windows). The problem is, your new OS would have to be pretty much 100% compatible with theirs. Microsoft will fight tooth and nail to make sure it won't. As such, to make an OS that can truly compete with Windows, you'll need about 60% lawyers, 20% marketing, and 20% development.

 

[mdm-adph]

I think that has more to do with Steve Jobs not dying than anything. Give it a quarter or two more and see if it flatlines/falls.



I think you can beat Microsoft at their own game (Windows). The problem is, your new OS would have to be pretty much 100% compatible with theirs. Microsoft will fight tooth and nail to make sure it won't. As such, to make an OS that can truly compete with Windows, you'll need about 60% lawyers, 20% marketing, and 20% development.

Even if Steve Jobs died, the stock would only take a minor hit. You'd be surprised at the amount of iPhone owners who don't even know who Steve Jobs is.

And you pretty much proved my point about competing with Windows. The only players big enough to take them on directly, in their own space, don't find any worth in it.

Plus, with the changing nature of electronics today, I'd argue that it's not even really necessary -- give it 15 years. The idea of having to keep a "PC" constantly on a desk somewhere ("What, your computers were so big you had to keep them on a desk all the time? Or carry them around in a backpack?") is going to seem quaint.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Even if Steve Jobs died, the stock would only take a minor hit. You'd be surprised at the amount of iPhone owners who don't even know who Steve Jobs is.

Steve Jobs is Apple. When Steve Jobs left, Apple almost died. When Steve Jobs could no longer work (liver problems), Apple's performance dove. I don't know of any corporation whom's performance is so closely tied to one individual. It is madness--anyway, short term trends usually don't provide much indicators for long term trends. Except for Q2 (when Jobs came back), iPhones did pretty lousey.


People were pointing out Jobs looked ill at a keynote speech in June/July:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=496913
http://www.itp.net/blogs/87-is-steve-jobs-ill

Apple's shares started diving in late August:
http://www.google.com/finance?chdnp...6&chls=IntervalBasedLine&q=NASDAQ:AAPL&ntsp=0

Those dates are pretty close.


Also consider that the bottom fell out of housing markets in late September. Apple was falling before the rest of them were.

As a reference, here's Microsoft:
http://www.google.com/finance?chdnp...2&chls=IntervalBasedLine&q=NASDAQ:MSFT&ntsp=0

 

[mdm-adph]

Steve Jobs is Apple. When Steve Jobs left, Apple almost died. When Steve Jobs could no longer work (liver problems), Apple's performance dove. I don't know of any corporation whom's performance is so closely tied to one individual. It is madness--anyway, short term trends usually don't provide much indicators for long term trends. Except for Q2 (when Jobs came back), iPhones did pretty lousey.


People were pointing out Jobs looked ill at a keynote speech in June/July:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=496913
http://www.itp.net/blogs/87-is-steve-jobs-ill

Apple's shares started diving in late August:
http://www.google.com/finance?chdnp...6&chls=IntervalBasedLine&q=NASDAQ:AAPL&ntsp=0

Those dates are pretty close.


Also consider that the bottom fell out of housing markets in late September. Apple was falling before the rest of them were.

As a reference, here's Microsoft:
http://www.google.com/finance?chdnp...2&chls=IntervalBasedLine&q=NASDAQ:MSFT&ntsp=0

Yeah, yeah -- I know all the Steve Jobs related trivia and rumors. Thanks for the review.

Still doesn't matter to me. The company that Jobs left in the 90's wasn't the same company that is today. Today Apple is a huge player in their markets (smartphones and PMP's) -- people are locked into their products. That will keep them going for years and years and years, even if Jobs dies and their products turn to junk.

Come on -- that exact same process has kept Microsoft in business for years. :shadedshu

 

[Wile E]

1) You're the odd one there. There's a reason why the iPhone is quickly becoming the most popular smartphone out there -- people don't want to bother with wondering "is a program going to work" or not. It's not a copout -- it's the new way of doing business and pleasing your customers.

You're an enthusiast -- you have to be aware of the fact that the way you "like doings things" on a computer is NOT the way that most other people. Jesus, man -- there's a reason why IE is the most popular browser out there. People DO just want to use "what's already there."

2) NO. Ubuntu does NOT need to be more like Windows. :shadedshu You can't beat Windows on their own turf -- every good businessman knows this. It's been too long that they've held their monopoly -- they've got far too many people locked in.

You can't beat them -- you can only expand into markets that they don't already own.

3) Like I said, YMMV, but I've encountered just as much dependency problems on Windows as I have from Ubuntu over the years.

1) Every single person I have ever known, has found a program online at some point in time that they wanted to download and use. And if the "use what's already there" business model was so successful in anything but the smartphone market, don't you think Linux would be a hell of a lot further than it is now?

2) I only mean more like Windows in ease of use, and especially ease of installation. But even more than that, Ubuntu itself needs to go the hell away, and quit screwing with Debian's standards, creating yet another standard. The last thing we need is another competing standard.

3) I flat don't believe you.

 

[Meecrob]

mdm-adph, just give up, WileE says your wrong and a lier you must be wrong and a lier, linux should just go away, mac and windows are better in every way and have none of the problems linux has.

 

[Wile E]

mdm-adph, just give up, WileE says your wrong and a lier you must be wrong and a lier, linux should just go away, mac and windows are better in every way and have none of the problems linux has.

Yeah, and if you actually paid attention to what I said, instead of just trolling by making baseless insinuations in a vain attempt to discredit me, you'd realize that I never said, at any point, that Linux was bad (only Ubuntu). I said that Windows is easier to use than linux, and as such, it is not for mainstream users.

 

[mdm-adph]

1) Every single person I have ever known, has found a program online at some point in time that they wanted to download and use. And if the "use what's already there" business model was so successful in anything but the smartphone market, don't you think Linux would be a hell of a lot further than it is now?

2) I only mean more like Windows in ease of use, and especially ease of installation. But even more than that, Ubuntu itself needs to go the hell away, and quit screwing with Debian's standards, creating yet another standard. The last thing we need is another competing standard.

3) I flat don't believe you.

#1 They're completely different things. And no -- Desktop Ubuntu (like you'd run on a regular PC) is right where I expect it to be right now, going up against the likes of Microsoft and Apple. Ubuntu is going up against decades of entrenched locked-in users, stuck with Microsoft -- it doesn't matter if Ubuntu is the greatest thing since sliced bread, it can't beat Microsoft on its own turf, no matter how much better it is.

But then, it's not supposed to -- the founder himself has said this, time and time and time again. However, it doesn't matter in the long run -- the next generation of computing devices is already shaping up to be a non-Microsoft world, be it smartphones or tablet PC's (whenever the hell they finally get around to marketability ).

#2 To me, Ubuntu is just as easy and dependable at those things it was meant to do. If you're looking for it to do the exact same things as Windows, look elsewhere -- it was never meant for that.

About Debian -- Ubuntu is free to do with Debian whatever it wants, just like Debian is free to do whatever it wants with other GPL code. That's the way it works. Ubuntu's relative "success" (at least in the fact that we're sitting here talking about it) means, to me, that it's doing something that maybe Debian couldn't or didn't want to.

#3 Like I said, YMMV. For the things I do with Ubuntu (browse the web, watch videos, listen to music) I never have any problems. There's nothing to it. I've installed maybe 10 programs over the course of a few years, since I started with Ubuntu. For the things I do with Windows (install games, play games, update games) I have problems from time to time -- not a massive amount, but still a good bit more than Ubuntu.

However, I don't expect you to believe me -- I don't believe half the hardware specs people say they have on this site, either.

mdm-adph, just give up, WileE says your wrong and a lier you must be wrong and a lier, linux should just go away, mac and windows are better in every way and have none of the problems linux has.

Dude -- I got this. Go take five.

 

[Meecrob]

naaa, you have spent pages telling me that linux is a nightmare, you and dippy and ford, the funny part is that I have seen alot of noobs have serious problems with clean windows installs due to not having DEPENDENCES MET.

mostly due to visual C and Visual Basic runtime liberys not being pre-installed or included in the apps installer, but you insist that dosnt happen, when others here Im sure have had it happen and seen it happen to other people they know.

OSX I have delt with on a low level, Apple dosnt tell people how to fix problems when you call them, 9/10 times tell you to reinstall the os because thats the easiest way to fix all apple related problems(has always been it seems)

Sure not alot of people currently use IRC, BUT every decent linux distro has it built in, and has info on how to connect so that you can get help when/if you need it, they also have forums despite the fact that most people dont use forums either.

and noobuntu(ubuntu) is trash, anybody whos had experience with a decent distro wont touch it, its a bastardized debian thats totally unoptimized and seems to be built by simply taking random apps and tossing their prebuild/compiled versions into a .deb for people to install, where other distros like VL tend to optimize their offerings.

Example KDE, it can be HORRIBLE and SLOW on some systems, I use to blame KDE for this, Till I tried it on VL, I was honestly SHOCKED, KDE was as fast as XFCE, same goes for gnome, the gnome build for VL is FAR faster and more optimized then the ones other distros use.....its shocking how much little things like attn to detail matter

well, you can go on saying that linux is worthless for the average user, I will just be happy Knowing that my dumbass father proves you wrong, hell he even got citrix setup without asking for my help(shocked me to.....)