Official AMD Radeon 6000 Series Discussion Thread

[Mindweaver]

Well, IF this is true, I am disappointed. An HD6870 scores lower than the 5870? That will lead to massive confusion in the retail market. Also with the scores, the 6870 only produces 19480 in 3DMark06? I break 20k with my overclocked 4850s. This is just sad, but then again, who knows if this is true.

Also, the pic in the link of the "supposed" 6850 shows an ATI label on it. If these are Barts, shouldn't they have AMD labels?

Yea you would think they could change that sticker...

 

[NdMk2o1o]

Thats a 5770 not a 68**

 

[JATownes]

Thats a 5770 not a 68**

Yea, it looks like a current 5770, but everything in the "article" is about the 6800 series, incuding the link to the pics shows it as a 6800.

This is all just rumor/fodder.

 

[nt300]

Why are we calling HD 6000 series Northern Islands? I dont see 32nm or 28nm, I see 40nm, NI is going be on 28nm. This 6000 gen is Southern Islands not NI. I sometimes agree with Charlie Demerjian, but this time I think he drank too much lol

 

[nt300]

We will find out truth in the coming days when AMD release the HD 6800 series. Just hope they did not change the name style. Good to stick with Evergreen to not confuse people. If HD 6870 is slower than HD 5870, that is bad idea AMD.

 

[a_ump]

apparently we were misled. NI is going to be the HD 6XXX series from what i've gathered recently and on 28nm, SI will come out. correct me someone if i'm wrong and that isn't the latest rumors

 

[a_ump]

Well, IF this is true, I am disappointed. An HD6870 scores lower than the 5870? That will lead to massive confusion in the retail market. Also with the scores, the 6870 only produces 19480 in 3DMark06? I break 20k with my overclocked 4850s. This is just sad, but then again, who knows if this is true.

Also, the pic in the link of the "supposed" 6850 shows an ATI label on it. If these are Barts, shouldn't they have AMD labels?

don't forget that HD 6870 is working with 960 shaders compared to HD 5870's 1600. As well as the HD 6870 is not actually the HD 5870's successor, the HD 6970 is supposed to be AMD's new Flagship single-GPU. So obviously the new shader configuration/architecture is hella efficient over the previous. 960 ~matching 1600 shaders.

So imagine what say...1920shaders in the HD 6970 will show numbers wise. I also would bet that AMD have a new scheduler configuration with their new shader arch. Their last wasn't very efficient as an HD 5850 clocked the same as the HD 5870 performs dam near identical. However i don't see HD 69XX series coming out until AMD see's what Nvidia does when they see AMD's new shader architecture is ~67% more efficient.

 

[Benetanegia]

Charlie says 10-15% larger than Cypress for top N.I. gpu

Use this for the 6770 chip which should be half of 6870 and you end up with ~200mm2 part. He also states this in the Barts thread on the S/A forum.

If it was as you suggested then what's the point of putting out an entire new line if performance is a little slower? Also if 6770 was 240mm2 it isn't going to sell for ~$200. Too big.

First of all, Charlie is not a source. And second everything we have seen about upcoming AMD cards suggests that Barts == 2/3 Cayman.

Specifically:

Turks -> 1 RPE
Barts -> 2 RPE
Cayman -> 3 RPE

Of course this could be wrong but it completely matches with the supposed benchmarks that have been circulating. They may all be fake, but most came from different sources and in the end, as time passes all the pieces seem to be fitting.

@ everybody

Regarding Northern/Southern Islands I agree with mastdrver. IMO SI does not even exist anymore and was only something that AMD was thinking but ultimately decided to release NI architecture under 40nm. I'm almost sure that AMD was going to aim for a sub 300 mm^2 chip @ 32nm with NI. And something that was supposed to be 300 mm^2 wouldn't be much more than 450mm^2 @40 nm. Even less if instead of doing 1-2-4 RPE, they went 1-2-3 RPE as seems to be the case. We'll see.

EDIT: oh I wanted to make a comment about this separately:

Also if 6770 was 240mm2 it isn't going to sell for ~$200. Too big.

Oh, please don't let AMD fool you with the overpriced HD5000 cards. RV770 was 260mm^2 and sold for $200 at launch (HD4850) and far less soon after (4830). Of course it can be done. Not to mention Nvidia cards, which have never never been sold at a loss, no matter what some stupid people say... you don't make profit if you are losing money in 2/3 of your revenue.

 

[NdMk2o1o]

This is all just rumor/fodder.

Exactly my point and being as the 5770's will be rebadged to 6770's I cant see the 6870's looking the same and being the same size, so again I call this BS until definate pics and scores are produced.

 

[dir_d]

I think the AMD screwed the naming scheme because they are on the same 40m node. So since these cards are technically a refresh they named them equal to the 5xxx series performance level. Thats why the 69xx will be on top of the 5870 to signify that they are indeed faster than the 5 series on the same node. Its weird but i do understand it if it is true. This the only guess i could think of regarding the naming that could make sense.

 

[yogurt_21]

First of all, Charlie is not a source. And second everything we have seen about upcoming AMD cards suggests that Barts == 2/3 Cayman.

Specifically:

Turks -> 1 RPE
Barts -> 2 RPE
Cayman -> 3 RPE

Of course this could be wrong but it completely matches with the supposed benchmarks that have been circulating. They may all be fake, but most came from different sources and in the end, as time passes all the pieces seem to be fitting.

@ everybody

Regarding Northern/Southern Islands I agree with mastdrver. IMO SI does not even exist anymore and was only something that AMD was thinking but ultimately decided to release NI architecture under 40nm. I'm almost sure that AMD was going to aim for a sub 300 mm^2 chip @ 32nm with NI. And something that was supposed to be 300 mm^2 wouldn't be much more than 450mm^2 @40 nm. Even less if instead of doing 1-2-4 RPE, they went 1-2-3 RPE as seems to be the case. We'll see.

EDIT: oh I wanted to make a comment about this separately:



Oh, please don't let AMD fool you with the overpriced HD5000 cards. RV770 was 260mm^2 and sold for $200 at launch (HD4850) and far less soon after (4830). Of course it can be done. Not to mention Nvidia cards, which have never never been sold at a loss, no matter what some stupid people say... you don't make profit if you are losing money in 2/3 of your revenue.

well despite all other rumors, I'm quite confident in the above

 

[Anusha]

I think the AMD screwed the naming scheme because they are on the same 40m node. So since these cards are technically a refresh they named them equal to the 5xxx series performance level. Thats why the 69xx will be on top of the 5870 to signify that they are indeed faster than the 5 series on the same node. Its weird but i do understand it if it is true. This the only guess i could think of regarding the naming that could make sense.

They could have released 5760, 5790, 5860, 5890, 5990 cards then >_<

 

[KainXS]

Well shit.. Sorry guys.. Can a mod delete this?

no need for that it has taken off now

i was just saying

 

[dir_d]

They could have released 5760, 5790, 5860, 5890, 5990 cards then >_<

But they couldnt due to the fact of the 4way shaders, and the higher monitor output. Its technically a refresh but with better technology. If they would have kept 5 way shaders and 3 monitor eyefinity, and still had the performance boosts, then i can see AMD naming these cards within the 5xxx series nomenclature. But otherwise these cards needed to be named to another series and then compared around equally to the last series because they are on the same node.

 

[H82LUZ73]

They could have released 5760, 5790, 5860, 5890, 5990 cards then >_<

that is ATI they are trying to rename them for AMD brand name now.

 

[Anusha]

anyways, imo, the rumours 6870 should be called 6770.

next question is, what the prices will be like. they can't really ask $250 for the 6870 because it is not their flagship model. In fact, there are two classes of cards which are faster than these. The 1920 shader single GPU cards and then there are the dual GPU cards. $200 for the 6870 sounds good, but then what happens to the 5850 and 5870 stock? Rough spot they are in.

 

[chevy350]

A bit more from another article I ran across earlier this morning

http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=26884

It's worth noting that the numbers have to be taken with a pinch of salt; the benchmarks themselves can't be verified, and if they are indeed real, they were most likely recorded using sub-optimal drivers and pre-release hardware.

If however the numbers are accurate - and remember, that's a big if - it could suggest that AMD will indeed be mixing up its GPU nomenclature. Will the 6800-series be designed as a replacement to 5700 cards? Will the 6900-series brand be reserved solely for high-end parts? It certainly looks that way.

 

[WarEagleAU]

Not bad on a scaling shader performance. I dont know whether to believe this or not but I cant wait to see some official tallies.

 

[Mr McC]

I think the AMD screwed the naming scheme because they are on the same 40m node. So since these cards are technically a refresh they named them equal to the 5xxx series performance level. Thats why the 69xx will be on top of the 5870 to signify that they are indeed faster than the 5 series on the same node. Its weird but i do understand it if it is true. This the only guess i could think of regarding the naming that could make sense.

If, and I repeat IF, the 57xx series is being replaced by the 68xx series and the 58xx series is being replaced by the 69xx series, I see nothing that makes any sense unless you are knowingly trying to dupe members of the general public into purchasing a product that actually performs inferior to their entirely logical expectations. Bear in mind that many people will buy pre-built systems and would (and should) automatically assume that a 6870 is faster than a 5870.

I don't understand your reasoning: you say that 69xx is necessary to differentiate and underline the fact that they are "faster than the 5 series on the same node", but wouldn't 68xx have served just as well? Indeed it would have been better as the naming schemes are already established and potential customers have a better reference point.

It is too soon in the day to categorically state that the 57xx has become the 68xx and that the 68xx we expected will actually be named 69xx, but if that is the case, those marketing practices stink, no matter how you want to cut it.

 

[dir_d]

If, and I repeat IF, the 57xx series is being replaced by the 68xx series and the 58xx series is being replaced by the 69xx series, I see nothing that makes any sense unless you are knowingly trying to dupe members of the general public into purchasing a product that actually performs inferior to their entirely logical expectations. Bear in mind that many people will buy pre-built systems and would (and should) automatically assume that a 6870 is faster than a 5870.

I don't understand your reasoning: you say that 69xx is necessary to differentiate and underline the fact that they are "faster than the 5 series on the same node", but wouldn't 68xx have served just as well? Indeed it would have been better as the naming schemes are already established and potential customers have a better reference point.

It is too soon in the day to categorically state that the 57xx has become the 68xx and that the 68xx we expected will actually be named 69xx, but if that is the case, those marketing practices stink, no matter how you want to cut it.

Before I go on this is all an assumption and i could be wrong. Just wanted to state this.

I know its a hard concept to grasp because of how AMD has done things in the past but look at it this way. The 6870 is a refresh of the 5870, more efficient, less shaders, less power, more tech, and around the same performance. If you can humor me by imaging this for yourself you can see what im pointing out. The fact that AMD stated earlier this year that there will be a 5 series refresh out by the end of the year makes my reasoning on the naming nomenclature seem reasonable. Everyone just assumed that the 6870 was actually the 6770 based off how AMD has been naming cards in the past when they step to a new node.

This seems logical to me but i am weird so my thought process is messed up

 

[inferKNOX]

Damn... AMD have practically turned off the lights and everyone are stumbling in the dark!
Not only are people confused about model numbers and speculating their holey socks off, but even the codenames are an enigma to the masses!
Good one AMD! You've given us all a good reason to laugh at ourselves... we're little more than a desperate bunch of fumblers now... :shadedshu

 

[CDdude55]

Damn... AMD have practically turned off the lights and everyone are stumbling in the dark!
Not only are people confused about model numbers and speculating their holey socks off, but even the codenames are an enigma to the masses!
Good one AMD! You've given us all a good reason to laugh at ourselves... we're little more than a desperate bunch of fumblers now... :shadedshu

That's why people just need to stand still till the lights come back on.. lol

 

[SNICK]

Radeon HD 6870 officially at 900MHz

it has been confirmed by fudzilla that that barts xt runs at
900 mhz on core:
1050 ddr5 memory

http://www.fudzilla.com/graphics/item/20486-radeon-hd-6870-officially-at-900mhz

expected price:300usd
date:22nd october

 

[dir_d]

If the performance is on par with the 5870 then its priced ok but i would like to see it down 25 to 50 more dollars.

 

[a_ump]

anyways, imo, the rumours 6870 should be called 6770.

next question is, what the prices will be like. they can't really ask $250 for the 6870 because it is not their flagship model. In fact, there are two classes of cards which are faster than these. The 1920 shader single GPU cards and then there are the dual GPU cards. $200 for the 6870 sounds good, but then what happens to the 5850 and 5870 stock? Rough spot they are in.

no, they most definitely can ask $250 for the 6870, in fact it wouldn't surprise me to see them asking ~$279-329, as it performs(or so we assume) in between the 5850/5870. On newegg the cheapest 5850 is $244 bc of a 48-hr special, but usually its $269 cheapest; with the 5870 being $359 cheapest. So $279-329 isn't exactly far fetched.

I personally expect the 6870 to perform on par or slightly slower at current dx10/9 titles, but be superior in dx11 since its tesselation is supposed to be much more powerful than Evergreen and that's all that's really being used in dx11 titles right now. I think that AMD has the next to card gen releases under control, unless Nvidia pulls a miracle architecture outa their ass after just getting Fermi released.

EDIT:

it has been confirmed by fudzilla that that barts xt runs at
900 mhz on core:
1050 ddr5 memory

http://www.fudzilla.com/graphics/item/20486-radeon-hd-6870-officially-at-900mhz

expected price:300usd
date:22nd october

and what's with AMD using only 4200mhz GDDR5???? i thought GDDDR5 was only getting faster and more available, i was actually expecting like 5200mhz or something. Just a lil increase in memory speed, like the core's lil 50mhz bump.