Intel Roadmap Outlines LGA to BGA Transition

[hardcore_gamer]

 

[AsRock]

all nooby jokes aside. i dont think this is the right path for any processor company to follow for any desktop systems!

what happens to motherboard manufacturers?

what happens if a single component fails, means youll have to strip the lot.

enthusiasts will be put off by not having a 'unique', interchangeable system.

and extreme overclocking would be a nightmare.


im not that biased, i have better things to care about. but it would be good if intel could have this and LGA still in the market.

BGA for the small ITX builds etc
LGA for the rest.

if not welcome to the red side in advance

Which makes me think this is for OEMS and at worsted for some motherboards. Still think it's going be optional so people\OEMS can save a few dollers.


Could be just for INTEL mobo's too

God, I miss the old days when you could install on the same motherboard processors from Intel, AMD, Cytrix or IBM. That were good times.

Yeah those toasty IBM chips who could forget those.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

Then show me a BGA chip with a heatspreader then. I've yet to see one.

With a pre fitted heatsink they are not needed , then its upto the maker , some do fit them (xbox 360 ps3 chips ) some dont.

I don't think intel will bga all there chips , certainly doing so on server and enthusiast lines is just passing trade to amd but to me bga is a big step back for everyone but intel, no sooner have intel got most of a pc on a 1 inch ( yeah ish it dont matter) chip and they're making the chip itx size minimum ,, feckin odd world.

 

[btarunr]

Then show me a BGA chip with a heatspreader then. I've yet to see one.

I'll show you two.

 

[Frick]

Which makes me think this is for OEMS and at worsted for some motherboards. Still think it's going be optional so people\OEMS can save a few dollers.

Indeed. Most people are not even aware that a computer have different components (which isn't bad), they don't care and do not have to care about that sort of thing anyway, so it does make tons of sense for a lot of people. Not to mention that if they buy the right stuff to begin with they last for quite some time. The downside is if someone buys a desktop computer with let's say a very low end Celeron CPU in it and later realizes he/she actually need more power. Then they would have to get a new system entirely, instead of just a new CPU. Those are probably fringe cases anyway, but still.

All in all I don't mind this one bit. I'm quite sure the enthusiasts will have to move to workstations sooner or later anyway.

 

[cdawall]

I'll show you two.

http://www.legitreviews.com/images/reviews/1461/gtx580_gtx480_pcb.jpg

He was getting at in a CPU form and is correct the vast majority of BGA based CPU's have no IHS. As far as AMD and Intel go this has been true for years.

 

[AsRock]

Indeed. Most people are not even aware that a computer have different components (which isn't bad), they don't care and do not have to care about that sort of thing anyway, so it does make tons of sense for a lot of people. Not to mention that if they buy the right stuff to begin with they last for quite some time. The downside is if someone buys a desktop computer with let's say a very low end Celeron CPU in it and later realizes he/she actually need more power. Then they would have to get a new system entirely, instead of just a new CPU. Those are probably fringe cases anyway, but still.

All in all I don't mind this one bit. I'm quite sure the enthusiasts will have to move to workstations sooner or later anyway.

If it is optional we will just have to keep our eye's peeled as for the rest who don't know any better which INTEL could even get away with say with new BGA connection for better low power and make it sound like a better thing than possible bad.

We will have to see how far INTEL takes this.

 

[d1nky]

if they do decide to go down this road, i expect a lot of people, especially enthusiasts will stay with the chips that are out now.

im planning on an intel build maybe this winter, but i certainly wouldnt buy BGA.

would be a shame if it were all BGA. but intel arent that stupid, and having LGA and BGA would open doors for revunue and possibly create a whole new era of small 'apple-like' systems!

 

[Deleted member 24505]

If Intel do this, I would be buying Amd in the future.

What if your board dies, and the bga chip on it is a real nice overclocker? you might get a crappy one in exchange.

Keep hold of them nice boards and chips guys, if Intel has it's way we will all be using the same board and cpu.

 

[Frick]

If Intel do this, I would be buying Amd in the future.

What if your board dies, and the bga chip on it is a real nice overclocker? you might get a crappy one in exchange.

Which is why I believe the market will be more segmented in the future.

 

[Fourstaff]

He was getting at in a CPU form and is correct the vast majority of BGA based CPU's have no IHS. As far as AMD and Intel go this has been true for years.

Things change when you start to integrate something big, which afaik they haven't really done that in the consumer space. Also, even if they did, what prevents manufacturers such as Asus from adding on other goodies?

 

[cdawall]

Things change when you start to integrate something big, which afaik they haven't really done that in the consumer space. Also, even if they did, what prevents manufacturers such as Asus from adding on other goodies?

Considering the latest AMD and Intel mobile chips have no IHS it would be a good bet they wont get one. Why would either company waste the money on them. The reason they don't have one is they are always going to be factory applied HS. The likelihood of an OEM crushing the die installing a HSF is a lot lower than a consumer.

Asus or other manufacturers wont install an IHS as it will likely void their warranty with Intel. Can't exactly read the serial number off of the processor when a chunk of metal is glued to it.

 

[Fourstaff]

Considering the latest AMD and Intel mobile chips have no IHS it would be a good bet they wont get one. Why would either company waste the money on them. The reason they don't have one is they are always going to be factory applied HS. The likelihood of an OEM crushing the die installing a HSF is a lot lower than a consumer.

Asus or other manufacturers wont install an IHS as it will likely void their warranty with Intel. Can't exactly read the serial number off of the processor when a chunk of metal is glued to it.

Even if they don't have a die, you can still stick a beefy cooler on. See: graphics cards

I have faith in the motherboard manufacturers putting their expertise in graphics card cooling to good use.

 

[cdawall]

Even if they don't have a die, you can still stick a beefy cooler on. See: graphics cards

I have faith in the motherboard manufacturers putting their expertise in graphics card cooling to good use.

No one is arguing coolers. An IHS is an integrated heat spreader not a cooler

^CPU with an IHS

^CPU with a bare die

 

[Fourstaff]

No one is arguing coolers. An IHS is an integrated heat spreader not a cooler

http://www.phoronix.net/image.php?id=amd_fx8350_visherabdver2&image=amd_vishera_open_med

^CPU with an IHS

http://www.techpowerup.com/cpudb/images/cpus/1044.jpg

^CPU with a bare die

Yeah I know the difference, but given that there are many ways where you can go around the lack of an IHS, I think not having one is a non issue.

 

[cdawall]

Yeah I know the difference, but given that there are many ways where you can go around the lack of an IHS, I think not having one is a non issue.

I really have no idea what you are getting on about then all I said is I doubt Intel will include one on these chips

 

[Fourstaff]

I really have no idea what you are getting on about then all I said is I doubt Intel will include one on these chips

You doubt Intel will include one, I am saying that we don't need one anyway

 

[xenocide]

I consider BGA chips to be like the Gay Marriage debate--Don't like them? Don't get one. Notice that there are only a handful of models, that's because they are pretty much exclusively for OEMs.

 

[NC37]

I think someday history will look back on this time period then look out at the great trash heap of appliance PCs that is obliterating the planet and say..."WHY DIDN'T YOU MORONS STOP APPLE!!"

It is a valid argument. Non upgrade PCs tend to get thrown out when their usefulness is done. That is a lot of excess hardware. Not everything gets e-wasted. Sure China has a massive stockpile of materials to just keep making more but that isn't going to last forever. Specially not with how anemic current space programs are. Demand just increases and supplies are not auto replenishing.

 

[hardcore_gamer]

I consider BGA chips to be like the Gay Marriage debate

But what if all chips produced by a CPU monopoly becomes BGA ? It's like forced to be gay because no alternative exists.

 

[d1nky]

But what if all chips produced by a CPU monopoly becomes BGA ? It's like forced to be gay because no alternative exists.

LOL.... that would happen when there was a single manufacturer, but theres two so we have choice!

 

[TRWOV]

The HPC platform (servers) won't go BGA anytime soon so we can expect the "E" variants to remain with LGA.


I see three scenarios for the mainstream market:

1) Intel Motherboard/CPU market shrinks a little (do not kid yourself, we enthusiasts barely make a dent into Intel's revenue)

2) Motheboard manufacturers offer BGA CPUs adapted to LGA, i.e. the slotket all over again (will Intel allow this???)

3) AMD marketshare raises significantly (+30%) and forces Intel's hand to release new socketed processors (very unlikely, see 1)

 

[Renald]

Hard not to puke seeing this roadmap ...

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

With a pre fitted heatsink they are not needed , then its upto the maker , some do fit them (xbox 360 ps3 chips ) some dont.

I don't think intel will bga all there chips , certainly doing so on server and enthusiast lines is just passing trade to amd but to me bga is a big step back for everyone but intel, no sooner have intel got most of a pc on a 1 inch ( yeah ish it dont matter) chip and they're making the chip itx size minimum ,, feckin odd world.

Sometimes it's like talking to yourself in here.

 

[andresgriego]

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned, but doesn't this give Intel a reason to raise prices on socketed (high-end) offerings?

- less common format
- enthusiast excuse

Other than that, I don't mind BGA for my secondary computers, which never get upgrades or have a need for bleeding edge speed. Unfortunately, it amounts to getting less for the same price or more because there will be a manufacturing savings but we wont see any trickle down savings, it's been proven that that concept doesn't work.