anyone else beta testing Elder scrolls online?

[1Kurgan1]

Just played for an hour or two with the wife. Game seems fine, the last MMO I tried was Guild Wars 2 and it was horrible. I'm still planning on playing EQ Next, but I don't think I'll have a problem with ESO holding me over. The Khajit starting area was pretty good looking, fun to roam around in and found myself running to a few locations just because they looked cool, when a game has me doing that I usually find it decently enjoyable because the world was crafted well.

 

[Jaffakeik]

My first impressions was Pretty much skyrim so its a good point.World is looking good.Combat is good, playing sorcerer.Finished 1st area,but it seems game actions like trying to talk or trade it just takes ages to open dialog screen.probably because overwhelming beta players or connection to server. But in all game seems fine.But still don't know if I will buy it.Will see where my money will go.But definitely will keep eye on this game progress

 

[newconroer]

... The Khajit starting area was pretty good looking, fun to roam around in and found myself running to a few locations just because they looked cool, when a game has me doing that I usually find it decently enjoyable because the world was crafted well.

Boy are you in for a surprise !

I have many many gripes with the game itself,

Spoiler

though the dodge mechanic is simply awful not only in concept but practice as well.

• There's no dodge in TES games
• There's already a dodge oriented game on the market, and it actually works.
• The dodge itself is clunky, and doesn't have any weight or physics to it(then again neither does the game overall)
• It looks retarded
• Takes significant stamina, yet sprinting takes little and jumping takes none

Now here comes the exacerbating and damning part. Final bosses in dungeons are effectively roll avoidance. AoE's generally expand rather than show a fixed circumference, if the mob moves while the AoE expands, you have to make a guesstimate as to where it will end. They've made it so you HAVE to play in third person with the camera zoomed out just to make sure you don't get one shotted by 'dynamic' AoE.

• In tight areas, you run out of room to maneuver
• If you do not use the dodge command you can sometimes still be hit by an AoE. Yes, I've physically run away from it's coverage area and got hit. Yet when I rolled away the same distance, I did not
• Combined with stamina loss from dodging, you have very little stamina left to use abilities and fight as a melee class
• Mob(s) end up all over the place rather being held still so you can actually fight ( did I mention that mobs have horrific spacing issues. Apparently a huge spider's backside does not count as a hit box. You have to be at the front of it smacking it in the face... ... ... what year is this again?)

Can you see where this is going?


I thought it may be more about resource management than pure chaos theory, but after enough attempts at various dungeons, it really is chaos - from the trash mobs to the mini bosses to the end bosses.
Fights look like an ego contest between 80s action stars to see whom can dodge the most. We have Bruce, Sly, Arnold and Seagal.

The dodge feature itself is proof they are trying to appeal to a mass audience. Everything revolves around that roll mechanic and it ruins the group combat.

 

[BiggieShady]

Can you see where this is going?

I was unsuccessfully trying to strafe out of the way of fireballs coming my way ... are you saying it would actually work if I was double tapping for dodge? That sucks considering how much stamina dodge sucks ... and I need my stamina.

 

[1Kurgan1]

Spoiler

Boy are you in for a surprise !

I have many many gripes with the game itself, though the dodge mechanic is simply awful not only in concept but practice as well.

• There's no dodge in TES games
• There's already a dodge oriented game on the market, and it actually works.
• The dodge itself is clunky, and doesn't have any weight or physics to it(then again neither does the game overall)
• It looks retarded
• Takes significant stamina, yet sprinting takes little and jumping takes none

Now here comes the exacerbating and damning part. Final bosses in dungeons are effectively roll avoidance. AoE's generally expand rather than show a fixed circumference, if the mob moves while the AoE expands, you have to make a guesstimate as to where it will end. They've made it so you HAVE to play in third person with the camera zoomed out just to make sure you don't get one shotted by 'dynamic' AoE.

• In tight areas, you run out of room to maneuver
• If you do not use the dodge command you can sometimes still be hit by an AoE. Yes, I've physically run away from it's coverage area and got hit. Yet when I rolled away the same distance, I did not
• Combined with stamina loss from dodging, you have very little stamina left to use abilities and fight as a melee class
• Mob(s) end up all over the place rather being held still so you can actually fight ( did I mention that mobs have horrific spacing issues. Apparently a huge spider's backside does not count as a hit box. You have to be at the front of it smacking it in the face... ... ... what year is this again?)

Can you see where this is going?


I thought it may be more about resource management than pure chaos theory, but after enough attempts at various dungeons, it really is chaos - from the trash mobs to the mini bosses to the end bosses.
Fights look like an ego contest between 80s action stars to see whom can dodge the most. We have Bruce, Sly, Arnold and Seagal.

The dodge feature itself is proof they are trying to appeal to a mass audience. Everything revolves around that roll mechanic and it ruins the group combat.

We'll see how dodge functions and dungeon mechanics are when I get to that point. I've played almost all MMO's on the market, I like to know whats out there. So I'm sure I've encountered games with just as big off issues. Either way, these all sound like tweakable things that don't require a game rebuild. And thats if these issues aren't being over exaggerated (everyone has their own opinion on what is good or bad).

Adjusting ability resource usage is something that is patched, especially after a games release (or even in the final stages of beta which this is). I'm much more worried about content being there than content that needs some tweaking. In Age of Conan I hit level 50 and ran out of quests, still was enjoying the game and didn't want to grind, so I rerolled a new char and hit level 58 and then ran out of quests. That to me is much more frustrating than anything. I was enjoying that game, but had to quit because I didn't enjoy grinding that much.

We'll have to see where they gone with the dodge mechanic, to be honest I'm just trying to look at the game as a whole, and your whole post you really are only hitting the nail on the dodge head and nothing else. And thats a facet that can be tweaked (making blocking more viable, adjusting stamina uses, etc.). So reading that doesn't have me truly worried. Either way I'm not really looking for an MMO to sink a massive amount of time into anyways like I did with WoW. I'm just looking for something to hold me over till EQN, and it seems like it should be able to fit that bill.

 

[Deleted member 24505]

Just tried to log in, 1H 30min wait, feck that, will try later tonight.

 

[1Kurgan1]

Just tried to log in, 1H 30min wait, feck that, will try later tonight.

Looks like 18min right now.

 

[TheHunter]

Bad, bugged combat doesnt register always, queue bs, 30gb wasted.. Deleted.

Next!

 

[rooivalk]

Only managed to 5th level so far, but I feel what some of you said.

I think it feels like elder scrolls more or less with bunch of people run around.
Quest is nice but rather short, shallow and reward isn't exciting. Veteran gears (in the character creation menu) look dull. I know some people don't like fancy equipment, but for me, if it doesn't have something shiny to pursue, it isn't worth the time investment and money, this is an MMO after all. Combat / Healing also doesn't feel connected, kinda spray and pray but with sword and staff. Apparently there is no raiding too. I like WoW style raiding, it's like choreography. Maybe I should go back to WoW.

On the other side, the game is smooth (except for loading time but this is beta) and graphically very good for an MMO (you can't expect Skyrim level with so many people around). Environment is also rather beautiful (although it has so much open terrain, I don't feel like to explore).
I think this game has so much potential, but as for now it's dull.

 

[Disparia]

Made L10 so I headed off to Cyrodiil. Fought in several 100v100 battles and made rank 3. Like Big Battles in LOTRO x 1000 + PvP so I'm sold and will be pre-ordering.

 

[ne6togadno]

I was unsuccessfully trying to strafe out of the way of fireballs coming my way ... are you saying it would actually work if I was double tapping for dodge? That sucks considering how much stamina dodge sucks ... and I need my stamina.

stamina is not an issue in this game. it regenarate fast. if self regen is not enough you have potions, talismans and consumables for give you better stamina regen.
i have dragon knight with one-handed&shild and quite often i use first skill from one handed tree (cant remeber the name sry) which consumes stamina. i run out of magika more often then i run ot of stamina (havent been in dungeons so far so cant say about bosses). also dont forget you can increase stamina when lvling up or with enchants for armor&wapons. you have 3 type of enchants for armor, for weapon and for jewelery. armor echants give you +XX on stamina as fixed amount. you can add em on evry piece of armor so you have 6x +XX on stamina. jewelery enchants add on stamina regen you can have 3 of them (can be applied to blue or higher quality item) so 3x +Y to stamina regen. weapon enchants are like drain W magika and return Z stamina (1x or 2x depends on weapons) so as you see you have planty of opptions to adjust your stats.
as kurgan said this is question of game tweaking and adjusting play style to game mechanics.

 

[BiggieShady]

stamina is not an issue in this game. it regenarate fast. if self regen is not enough you have potions, talismans and consumables for give you better stamina regen.
i have dragon knight with one-handed&shild and quite often i use first skill from one handed tree (cant remeber the name sry) which consumes stamina. i run out of magika more often then i run ot of stamina (havent been in dungeons so far so cant say about bosses). also dont forget you can increase stamina when lvling up or with enchants for armor&wapons. you have 3 type of enchants for armor, for weapon and for jewelery. armor echants give you +XX on stamina as fixed amount. you can add em on evry piece of armor so you have 6x +XX on stamina. jewelery enchants add on stamina regen you can have 3 of them (can be applied to blue or higher quality item) so 3x +Y to stamina regen. weapon enchants are like drain W magika and return Z stamina (1x or 2x depends on weapons) so as you see you have planty of opptions to adjust your stats.
as kurgan said this is question of game tweaking and adjusting play style to game mechanics.

Yeah, I will have to max out stamina in every possible way because I use bow from distance, shadow abilities when mobs reach me while leeching/siphoning all the time to make some use of my magicka. If I have to dodge all the time or sprint, I have to do more siphoning and normal bow shots.

 

[Ahhzz]

Yeah, I will have to max out stamina in every possible way because I use bow from distance, shadow abilities when mobs reach me while leeching/siphoning all the time to make some use of my magicka. If I have to dodge all the time or sprint, I have to do more siphoning and normal bow shots.

I also "hunt", and have found that making glyphs with stamina restoration can assist greatly, as well as the leeching skills. I've not been using the "dodge" mechanic, mainly because I prefer not to play that way, which might cause some issues in higher levels. It's definitely cost me some deaths so far.

I'm also annoyed at being so badly limited on ability access. Not quite to 15, so I'm not sure how well the mechanics of swapping bows to a different skill set works, but I just don't see it happily. I don't like it in Neverwinter, and don't like it in ESO. I guess I'm a spoiled old-school WoW-er, and I want 6 toolbars on my screen, and everything available depending on my situation. I want *sigh*..... too many things I don't like, and detailing would break NDA.

Honestly, at this point, ignoring the obvious "It's a BETA!!!" problems, the game just really doesn't do it for me. I'm a big TES fanboi, have The Arena in it's box on my shelf, and everything since except daggerfail, and I REALLY wanted to want this game... but it's not there. I guess I fall in a category of wanting a multiplayer Skyrim (or other TES), and got a different WoW/Rift/Neverwinter experience. I've got Rift, play NW, never going back to WoW, and would rather play PoE. Maybe when it falls to f2p. I guess I'll just break out Skyrim again, mod it up, and enjoy.

 

[brandonwh64]

After playing about 2 hours of the beta I have came to the conclusion that this game is not for me let alone pay a monthly subscription for it.

 

[BiggieShady]

I guess I'm a spoiled old-school WoW-er, and I want 6 toolbars on my screen, and everything available depending on my situation.

It seems it's a MMO trend nowdays, having a huge number of synergistic abilities but limited number of slots on a toolbar. Players get different "builds" on the fly by picking compatible abilities for the toolbar.

 

[Ahhzz]

It seems it's a MMO trend nowdays, having a huge number of synergistic abilities but limited number of slots on a toolbar. Players get different "builds" on the fly by picking compatible abilities for the toolbar.

Eh, Rift has multiple toolbars, and I enjoyed it (altho to be fair, it really was WoW with random portals...). PoE limits you, not quite as much, but it makes up for it with that HUGE-ASS freaking Talent-Forest. Plus, once you get higher end, you've dropped those 8 skills you've been leveling and you're running 4 skills with multiple support gems for them instead. Like I said: spoiled ex-WoW. I don't like picking a skill simply because I have to get it to get to a higher tier (ala Neverwinter), and I don't like the other end of having several viable skills, highly functional, some situational, that I can't access all the time. First thing I looked for in Skyrim was a way to expand hotkeys, and saw they were going to baby the console users, and limit it. More hotkeys and Hotkeys plus plus work just great, thanks

 

[newconroer]

ntent that needs some tweaking. In Age of Conan I hit level 50 and ran out of quests, still was enjoying the game and didn't want to grind, so I rerolled a new char and hit level 58 and then ran out of quests. That to me is much more frustrating than anything. I was enjoying that game, but had to quit because I didn't enjoy grinding that much.

We'll have to see where they gone with the dodge mechanic, to be honest I'm just trying to look at the game as a whole, and your whole post you really are only hitting the nail on the dodge head and nothing else. And thats a facet that can be tweaked (making blocking more viable, adjusting stamina uses, etc.). So reading that doesn't have me truly worried. Either way I'm not really looking for an MMO to sink a massive amount of time into anyways like I did with WoW. I'm just looking for something to hold me over till EQN, and it seems like it should be able to fit that bill.

Spoiler

Let us put it in these terms :

The game's solo and small group aspect is pretty good and can be worth you while. When you get time or areas to yourself or hook up with a few others to have your own adventures, those moments help the game shine. Yet they are far and few between due to the nature of every thing being shared. And as previously discussed here and other places, it fails to be good at being open world. There's no social ecosystem, everything is a free for all (sans a few dungeons) and encourages people to aimlessly engage without thought.

The grouping aspect is as stated, hinges on one particular mechanic, which is the dodge function. Another example, would be the fairly large groups of trash mobs. We're talking twenty mobs to your group of four players. They send everything and the sun down around you. You're stuck in yet another dodge required situation, which is even more chaotic than a boss fight. Every time you dodge with enmity, they chase you, then you go back the other way, run over there, run over here. The majority of times, the 'strategy' to these is to simply rush in, burn down the healers and the wizards if possible, then hang on until you all die, rinse and repeat till the mobs are dead. I wish there was some other way, yet crowd control is fairly limited, and we're not talking three minute Enchanter mesmerizing here, you're looking at best five to ten seconds IF you're close enough to hit a mob with that ability. All that talk where they promised strategy would be key..has turned out to be more PR noise - unless of course they think strategy means regurgitating old game mechanics.


As for EverQuest Next, let's be fair, all we've really seen is A) Landmark, which seems more like a mini-game with the potential to influence structures in the final game itself and B) Some very archaic and repetitive 'class' designs clearly hodgepodged from others games.

Additionally, they've made it quite clear that EQ Next is not some next generation version of old EQ, but 'better.'
I'm still waiting to see what it is they think is going to "blow us away..."


You may be better supporting Pantheon, which aims to give us back all the good things about old MMORPGs, and limit all trash that keeps coming out.
Additionally, a smaller development team means head cases like Smedley, aren't involved.

stamina is not an issue in this game. it regenarate fast. if self regen is not enough you have potions, talismans and consumables for give you better stamina regen.

Yes, there is regeneration though reduced in combat and padding it via stats is not easily done, nor can you stack foods.

i have dragon knight with one-handed&shild and quite often i use first skill from one handed tree (cant remeber the name sry) which consumes stamina. i run out of magika more often then i run ot of stamina (havent been in dungeons so far so cant say about bosses).

Spoiler

Then with all due respect, saying you do not use a lot of stamina and suggesting it's easy to manage, is a moot point since you have not engaged in the activities we're discussing, where resources become an issue.

Furthermore, I don't want yet ANOTHER MMO where I have to potion and consumable manage just to get by because developers can't be creative and use actual strategy.
ESO already does something awfully annoying that irked me with LOTRO, and that is tiered consumables. They have varying qualities and effect strength, yet are only a few levels apart. You find these in the same adventuring areas, ending up with bags full of potions that you MAY need, but don't necessarily need. So you hold onto them, because as you say, "stamina is not an issue in this game. it regenarate fast. if self regen is not enough you have potions, talismans and consumables for give you better stamina regen."

Why on Earth, can't someone make a good itemization system that lets you stack and extract (hell that could be the tag line!), in order to save space. Or just stop making so many damn unnecessary potions.

I also "hunt", and have found that making glyphs with stamina restoration can assist greatly, as well as the leeching skills. I've not been using the "dodge" mechanic, mainly because I prefer not to play that way, which might cause some issues in higher levels. It's definitely cost me some deaths so far.

Spoiler

Good for you, I don't use it either if I can help it. It's so ghetto watching archer class run around circle straffing a melee mob that clearly hits them no matter where they are, and dodge rolling back and forth while still in melee range and getting hit, all the while you wonder why they are firing a bow and arrow one foot from a monster's face, instead of using blades.

And then you think 'Zenimax, you fu**ing morons, why did you put this stuff in the game that encourages ADHD behavior!?"

I'm also annoyed at being so badly limited on ability access. Not quite to 15, so I'm not sure how well the mechanics of swapping bows to a different skill set works, but I just don't see it happily. I don't like it in Neverwinter, and don't like it in ESO. I guess I'm a spoiled old-school WoW-er, and I want 6 toolbars on my screen, and everything available depending on my situation. I want *sigh*..... too many things I don't like, and detailing would break NDA.

Spoiler

We had this discussion once before, and if done well, a lot of abilities can be enjoyable as it requires strong micro management skills. My gripe with ESO combat is that instead of taking TES combat, which is simplistic and then evolving it in a clever and creative way, they've used the basic combat to lure people in by saying 'it's like TES!' Yet then they added hot button abilities(which is NOT TES), that automate things for you, so they could appeal to the expectations of the general MMO player base. To finish it off, and to save some face value, they limited the abilities to a low number such as five or six, as to not alienate the 'veterans.' I guess two hundred million dollars, means you hire good bullshitters to your marketing team.

I guess I fall in a category of wanting a multiplayer Skyrim (or other TES), and got a different WoW/Rift/Neverwinter experience. I've got Rift, play NW, never going back to WoW, and would rather play PoE. Maybe when it falls to f2p. I guess I'll just break out Skyrim again, mod it up, and enjoy.

Don't forget to check out my Skyrim evolved article on Overlord!

Ultimtaely, you sound like you want one or the other, not a mix and I'm in agreement. This is not a TES game, and all it does is make me want to play TES games more, and ignore ESO entirely.

 

[Phobia9651]

Just played for an hour or two with the wife. Game seems fine, the last MMO I tried was Guild Wars 2 and it was horrible. I'm still planning on playing EQ Next, but I don't think I'll have a problem with ESO holding me over. The Khajit starting area was pretty good looking, fun to roam around in and found myself running to a few locations just because they looked cool, when a game has me doing that I usually find it decently enjoyable because the world was crafted well.

Haha, for me it was kind of the otherway around. I quite liked GW2 (eventhough it is not perfect), it definitely is a more action focussed game compared to WoW and Rift which I played before that. It was quite a bold move to ditch the holy trinity, but it worked out seemingly fine, though aggro acts kind of wonky.

 

[newconroer]

Haha, for me it was kind of the otherway around. I quite liked GW2 (eventhough it is not perfect), it definitely is a more action focussed game compared to WoW and Rift which I played before that. It was quite a bold move to ditch the holy trinity, but it worked out seemingly fine, though aggro acts kind of wonky.

I think we're finding that the move away from holy trinity is actually a bad idea and certainly not something all games should go after as it becomes a gimmick.
Additionally if not done very well, as you say, aggro and enmity becomes wonky.

Another thing to consider is that much like in real life, we look upon certain personalities and physical body types to be best suited for certain scenarios and tasks. And this is no different in the games. People choose avatars and roles based on their own personality - it's an extension. It's fair to say then that having several of the same types of players(personality, attitude etc.) competing over their purpose, and inevitably virtually butting heads, is a bad idea.

Holy trinity provides a clear avenue and allows people to naturally gravitate towards what suits them best.

What it would be more interesting, is continuing to embrace the holy trinity, yet expand it or shrink it based on the requirements. In old EQ you needed crowd control as much as you needed healing, tanking and damage. Additionally you often needed evaccers or taxis. Certain zones were death traps and when shit hit the fan you had to get out fast. An ideal EQ group consisted of at least four or five classes that were pretty much a requirement and the 'random' slots could be filled by any other class which always brought something to the table.

 

[Phobia9651]

I think we're finding that the move away from holy trinity is actually a bad idea and certainly not something all games should go after as it becomes a gimmick.
Additionally if not done very well, as you say, aggro and enmity becomes wonky.

Another thing to consider is that much like in real life, we look upon certain personalities and physical body types to be best suited for certain scenarios and tasks. And this is no different in the games. People choose avatars and roles based on their own personality - it's an extension. It's fair to say then that having several of the same types of players(personality, attitude etc.) competing over their purpose, and inevitably virtually butting heads, is a bad idea.

Holy trinity provides a clear avenue and allows people to naturally gravitate towards what suits them best.

What it would be more interesting, is continuing to embrace the holy trinity, yet expand it or shrink it based on the requirements. In old EQ you needed crowd control as much as you needed healing, tanking and damage. Additionally you often needed evaccers or taxis. Certain zones were death traps and when shit hit the fan you had to get out fast. An ideal EQ group consisted of at least four or five classes that were pretty much a requirement and the 'random' slots could be filled by any other class which always brought something to the table.

Well the EQ scenario isn't very favorable either. I think the Rift (and upcoming WildStar) set up is pretty solid where every class can fill at least 2 roles, since pure DPS classes are a bummer for groupforming (like in WoW). I'm definitely not against the holy trinity, though the lack of options/roles can make it quite frustrating for someone really liking a certain class which happens to be pure DPS and not the fotm. Ie. people should be able to play the class they like most, not the class that every group wants.

 

[Ahhzz]

Well the EQ scenario isn't very favorable either. I think the Rift (and upcoming WildStar) set up is pretty solid where every class can fill at least 2 roles, since pure DPS classes are a bummer for groupforming (like in WoW). I'm definitely not against the holy trinity, though the lack of options/roles can make it quite frustrating for someone really liking a certain class which happens to be pure DPS and not the fotm. Ie. people should be able to play the class they like most, not the class that every group wants.

It's been so long since I hit Rift, I'd forgotten that was one of the big reasons I actually played for over a year initially: multi-purpose roles. I am (again) a hunter. Always. Other classes are for the guild needs, and mules. Being able to change it up a bit in my role was really a lot of fun, and made it so I did get into groups more often.

 

[1Kurgan1]

Let us put it in these terms :
The game's solo and small group aspect is pretty good and can be worth you while. When you get time or areas to yourself or hook up with a few others to have your own adventures, those moments help the game shine. Yet they are far and few between due to the nature of every thing being shared. And as previously discussed here and other places, it fails to be good at being open world. There's no social ecosystem, everything is a free for all (sans a few dungeons) and encourages people to aimlessly engage without thought.

The grouping aspect is as stated, hinges on one particular mechanic, which is the dodge function. Another example, would be the fairly large groups of trash mobs. We're talking twenty mobs to your group of four players. They send everything and the sun down around you. You're stuck in yet another dodge required situation, which is even more chaotic than a boss fight. Every time you dodge with enmity, they chase you, then you go back the other way, run over there, run over here. The majority of times, the 'strategy' to these is to simply rush in, burn down the healers and the wizards if possible, then hang on until you all die, rinse and repeat till the mobs are dead. I wish there was some other way, yet crowd control is fairly limited, and we're not talking three minute Enchanter mesmerizing here, you're looking at best five to ten seconds IF you're close enough to hit a mob with that ability. All that talk where they promised strategy would be key..has turned out to be more PR noise - unless of course they think strategy means regurgitating old game mechanics.

As for EverQuest Next, let's be fair, all we've really seen is A) Landmark, which seems more like a mini-game with the potential to influence structures in the final game itself and B) Some very archaic and repetitive 'class' designs clearly hodgepodged from others games.

Additionally, they've made it quite clear that EQ Next is not some next generation version of old EQ, but 'better.'
I'm still waiting to see what it is they think is going to "blow us away..."

We'll see how it is. Really I'm just looking for something to tie up a bit of time and to mess around with. And it seems it can fit that bill for a while. Even if I only get 40 - 50 hours out of it, thats more than enough for me to feel fine with the purchase, this isn't something I'm banking on playing for years. But if they work at it, it's a possibility I guess, just not very probable.

As far as EQ Next, agreed on Landmark, in my mind it's just a taste and something to mess around on. But the class design you speak of I'm not all that sure. There might be more current news than I have seen. But class discussion the last I had looked wasn't very detailed. Basically just something about picking a class and mixing and matching with classes in the world through quests/objectives that synergize with your class/alignment. Overall, I haven't really played an MMO with that type of class system. But like I said, I'm not super current on news, so you might have some info I don't here.

As far as something to blow us away, I thought that was suppose to be the multi-tiered world that allowed each server to be unique allowing each server to have it's own open world events specific to whatevers going on on that server. Thats what has me drawn and I figured that was the thing that was intended to blow everyone away. EQ was an open world game, modern MMO's are so instanced. Some of my favorite times were World Bosses in WoW (only issue here is you had to be in the top 2 - 3 guilds of a server to have access to doing this content). And since the Gates of AQ opened I haven't ever really seen a world event in an MMO that impressed me all that much. So thats what I'm hoping to see again, but hopefully at a more accessible level since I don't think I will be raiding in top tier guilds like I did back when I played WoW since I don't want to maintain something like an 85 - 90% raid attendance for 4 nights a week of raiding.

I think we're finding that the move away from holy trinity is actually a bad idea and certainly not something all games should go after as it becomes a gimmick.
Additionally if not done very well, as you say, aggro and enmity becomes wonky.

Another thing to consider is that much like in real life, we look upon certain personalities and physical body types to be best suited for certain scenarios and tasks. And this is no different in the games. People choose avatars and roles based on their own personality - it's an extension. It's fair to say then that having several of the same types of players(personality, attitude etc.) competing over their purpose, and inevitably virtually butting heads, is a bad idea.

Holy trinity provides a clear avenue and allows people to naturally gravitate towards what suits them best.

What it would be more interesting, is continuing to embrace the holy trinity, yet expand it or shrink it based on the requirements. In old EQ you needed crowd control as much as you needed healing, tanking and damage. Additionally you often needed evaccers or taxis. Certain zones were death traps and when shit hit the fan you had to get out fast. An ideal EQ group consisted of at least four or five classes that were pretty much a requirement and the 'random' slots could be filled by any other class which always brought something to the table.

I haven't been a supporter of moving away from the Holy Trinity since that became the rage. I like the Trinity. I like having a role, and I like having Hybrid Classes that can do a bit of two roles. I'm getting really sick of new MMO's where everyone does everything, just boring, everything feels the same. No ones tanking, no ones damage, no ones the healer, you all are everything, just got to run around and avoid things. Doesn't feel like team work to me, I enjoy downing raid bosses as a team, and knowing I full filled my role. So I agree completely, Trinity should stay, thought it was stupid when MMO's used the removal of it as a selling point, as you said, we have specialties in life, our differences is what makes us us, why make everything the same in a game?

Haha, for me it was kind of the otherway around. I quite liked GW2 (eventhough it is not perfect), it definitely is a more action focussed game compared to WoW and Rift which I played before that. It was quite a bold move to ditch the holy trinity, but it worked out seemingly fine, though aggro acts kind of wonky.

That was one of the MMO's I stopped playing the quickest. The move away from the Trinity in that game was especially crap. I'm not sure if it has changed, but that "awesome" PvP map they had in mind was just every class raining down ranged AoE crap. I like playing melee, I do it in most games, it's the role I enjoy. When I pick a Warrior it's for a reason. When I'm told to equip a gun as a main weapon thats utter crap, I'm a freaking Warrior. I don't mind using a gun to pull something or to kill a runner or something. But as my main weapon? Not a chance.

 

[Disparia]

Turbine said to hell with the trinity during the last expansion. We all have 2 DPS lines and a role line. And if your role was DPS before, you probably have 3 DPS lines now. It doesn't matter anymore who joins a group now, any class in any spec and you're going to win 98% of the time. That 2% is for the remaining content that requires some sort of coordination and class makeup.

Haven't played it, but at least on paper I like how Final Fantasy XIV is setup with classes and jobs. Easy/landscape content can be done in your style, with skills learned from various classes. When you get to the harder raids you flip into your specific job/role. Like I said, haven't played it, but sounds like a good setup if implemented properly. Everyone probably learns some Conjurer heals for solo play, but when you get into a dungeon, better have someone who can be a dedicated White Mage.

 

[Darkleoco]

Played quite a few hours and i just dont see this going far as a P2P beyond the first months of hype.

 

[newconroer]

We'll see how it is. Really I'm just looking for something to tie up a bit of time and to mess around with. And it seems it can fit that bill for a while. Even if I only get 40 - 50 hours out of it, thats more than enough for me to feel fine with the purchase, this isn't something I'm banking on playing for years. But if they work at it, it's a possibility I guess, just not very probable.

Agreed. ESO might just be something extra to fill in the gap - as so many games end up doing.

As far as EQ Next, agreed on Landmark, in my mind it's just a taste and something to mess around on. But the class design you speak of I'm not all that sure. There might be more current news than I have seen. But class discussion the last I had looked wasn't very detailed. Basically just something about picking a class and mixing and matching with classes in the world through quests/objectives that synergize with your class/alignment. Overall, I haven't really played an MMO with that type of class system. But like I said, I'm not super current on news, so you might have some info I don't here.

I believe you're ahead of me on news. I just remember them claiming a class system that reinvented the wheel. But from what they showed us, I don't believe it.

As far as something to blow us away, I thought that was suppose to be the multi-tiered world that allowed each server to be unique allowing each server to have it's own open world events specific to whatevers going on on that server. Thats what has me drawn and I figured that was the thing that was intended to blow everyone away. EQ was an open world game, modern MMO's are so instanced. Some of my favorite times were World Bosses in WoW (only issue here is you had to be in the top 2 - 3 guilds of a server to have access to doing this content). And since the Gates of AQ opened I haven't ever really seen a world event in an MMO that impressed me all that much. So thats what I'm hoping to see again, but hopefully at a more accessible level since I don't think I will be raiding in top tier guilds like I did back when I played WoW since I don't want to maintain something like an 85 - 90% raid attendance for 4 nights a week of raiding.

Yes open world and world renown is very important. I don't care so much for the latter, but I understand why people like it. The key difference is that you are renowned for what you do in the game, and on the server - not what you say in the forums or on a Facebook. It means ultimately that you're playing the game, not just socializing in it.
As for multi-tiered world, that's not too far off my idea of controllable instances for private or public play. S

McQuaid and the guys at Visionary Realms have already stated that they realize most EQ fans are grown up now, and have lives that don't allow for eighteen hour gaming sessions.

Turbine said to hell with the trinity during the last expansion. We all have 2 DPS lines and a role line. And if your role was DPS before, you probably have 3 DPS lines now. It doesn't matter anymore who joins a group now, any class in any spec and you're going to win 98% of the time. That 2% is for the remaining content that requires some sort of coordination and class makeup.

Haven't played it, but at least on paper I like how Final Fantasy XIV is setup with classes and jobs. Easy/landscape content can be done in your style, with skills learned from various classes. When you get to the harder raids you flip into your specific job/role. Like I said, haven't played it, but sounds like a good setup if implemented properly. Everyone probably learns some Conjurer heals for solo play, but when you get into a dungeon, better have someone who can be a dedicated White Mage.

Some classes are still ok solo; and frankly that's how I like LOTRO now. The days of group content die with Moria.