Radeon Fury to be slower than GTX 980 Ti

[RejZoR]

Because GCN 1.0 is the same as GCN 1.1...Open GL 4.2 is the same as Open GL 4.3...and DX 11.1 is the same as DX 11.2...right?

Please do us all a favor and stop posting. GCN 1.1 is NOT the same as GCN 1.0. With GCN 1.1 chips using it gain TrueAudio, new iteration of PowerTune logic and enhanced stream processors instructions. I'm too lazy at the moment to cite you full differences from the ISA specs sheet.

All this is the reason why HD7790 performs almost as fast as HD7850 with these MASSIVE differences...

HD7850
CU: 1024 / TMU: 64 / ROP: 32 / Bus: 256bit / MEM: 153 GB/s

HD7790
CU: 896 / TMU: 56 / ROP: 16 / Bus: 128bit / MEM: 96 GB/s

Granted, Bonaire XT used on HD7790 has a higher GPU and MEM clock, but there is no way you can gain such a difference on such "crippled" core just by increasing clocks. Especially when we throw in the fact that HD7790 has a TDP of only 85W and HD7850 has TDP of 150W...

Bonaire was for Hawaii what Tonga is now for the Grenada. Can't put it in any better description really.

They based Hawaii (R9-290 series) upon Bonaire's enhancements, that's why it performs so much better than HD7900/R9-280 series.

Same will happen now. Grenada (R9-390 series) will be based upon Tonga's enhancements, that's why it will perform so much better than R9-290 series.

It's not a rocket science...

 

[arbiter]

Same will happen now. Grenada (R9-390 series) will be based upon Tonga's enhancements, that's why it will perform so much better than R9-290 series.

it should only be around 10-15% that's about it. but even that lookin at benchmarks that seems like could be a stretch, as r9 285 still seems to be slower then 280x was. the r9 280 that the 285 replaced, about only boost it got was around 5% or so, going by that likely won't be. being new one might not have the crippled memory 15% probably seems like could be around there.

 

[RejZoR]

You're again comparing apples with a sandwiches.

Yes, it catches R9-280, just. But you're also forgetting the fact that R9-285 had 256bit bus with bandwidth of 176 GB/s and R9-280 had 384 bit bus with bandwidth of 288 GB/s (raw bandwidth, BUS*FREQ). I wouldn't call that a tiny difference.

I don't get it why you're questioning this business practice when we already had such process in existence. R9-290 exists because of HD7790 released after HD7900. R9-390 will exist because of R9-285 released after R9-290.

I just don't get it which part of this you don't understand.

 

[R-T-B]

RejZor, I want to believe you're right. But even you have to admit you can't know until the product comes out.

 

[RejZoR]

Sure, but why would AMD bother investing tech into Tonga if they'll just release another R9-290X renamed to R9-390X ? It makes zero sense. Sure, they may actually rebrand R9-290X into R9-380X, I can see that happening and would actually kinda make sense, but doing that for the high end range (R9-390X is high end, not enthusiast, that's reserved for Fiji) would be absolutely moronic, thats why I don't expect AMD to even do that. Remember, Fiji is Titan grade stuff, you can't expect AMD to stick GCN 1.2 only in that. That would be just dumb. And I'm assuming they aren't THAT dumb. If they are, then god bless them, I'll buy GTX 980 then or not buy anything at all. It's not like I'm in any hurry with my overclocked HD7950...

 

[GreiverBlade]

well the new hierarchy is the 280 line is the 390 line the 290 line is the Fury line ... they just added a step after the X90 line so

 

[HumanSmoke]

Radeon Fury 3d Mark

You're a bit late. This was posted two pages ago (post #91)

 

[P4-630]

You're a bit late. This was posted two pages ago (post #91)

Ok thanks, I haven't read all that....

 

[MrGenius]

Please do us all a favor and stop posting.

Give me a proper counter-point...and I'll think about it.

It was a rhetorical question anyway. But you went and answered it...like I'm the idiot who doesn't know the difference.

Let's try it again then...

You gave us your definitions of what's a what. Then contradicted yourself by saying a 280X is a rebrand of a HD 7970. When, by your own definition, it would actually be a refresh.

So which is it? Got an answer to explain yourself? Or are you just going to tell me to get lost again?

 

[RejZoR]

I can do this all day... HD7970 is in fact R9-280X. Check your facts.

Same number of shaders (even the exact same version of it, GCN 1.0), texture units and ROP's. They also have identical bus width, memory capacity and memory bandwidth. HD7970 has a Tahiti XT core and R9-280X has Tahiti XTL core (notice the immense similarity in name). Which are in a nutshell identical. There are differences in clocks, but changed clocks are not refresh by any definition.

And if transition from R9-290X to R9-390X is a "rebrand" for you, then what is a transition from HD7970 to R9-280X ?It can't be rebrand again, because then you'd just be dishonest.

HD7970 -> NEW CHIP
HD7970 to R9-280X -> REBRAND
R9-290X to R9-390X -> REFRESH

We could debate about "NEW CHIP" because they are often just refreshes of something they've made in the past, but when something is so drastically different, it can be called "NEW CHIP". After all, that was the point where AMD switched from VLIW to RISC (GCN) so I think it deserves it...

 

[eidairaman1]

I can still use my CRT on the 980ti though...

Im using an VGA LCD from 2001 on my R9 290

 

[the54thvoid]

I can do this all day...

No.. please spare us...

But really - can you clarify why the 390X is a refresh over 290X? Do you know what GCN 390X has? And FTR, if that is implemented in firmware, not hardware - it's a rebrand. The hardware MUST change to qualify as a refresh. What have AMD changed with the 290X Hawaii chip. Or, how if it is a Tonga refresh - is Tonga any different from Hawaii? I'm simply going pretty much on all the tech sites saying it is a rebrand. I believe in them more than you - no offence.

 

[erocker]

Guys... RELAX! AMD has their TOP MEN working on it right now! TOP MEN!

 

[Steevo]

Hopefully not boiling their Top RAMEN with the new card.

 

[Tatty_Two]

Guys... RELAX! AMD has their TOP MEN working on it right now! TOP MEN!

I'll relax providing it's not the same "Top Men" who brought out the FX 9590

 

[the54thvoid]

I'll relax providing it's not the same "Top Men" who brought out the FX 9590

I'm just hoping its not Peter Griffin.

 

[RejZoR]

No.. please spare us...

But really - can you clarify why the 390X is a refresh over 290X? Do you know what GCN 390X has? And FTR, if that is implemented in firmware, not hardware - it's a rebrand. The hardware MUST change to qualify as a refresh. What have AMD changed with the 290X Hawaii chip. Or, how if it is a Tonga refresh - is Tonga any different from Hawaii? I'm simply going pretty much on all the tech sites saying it is a rebrand. I believe in them more than you - no offence.

Have I been speaking Chinese for the last few posts by any chance? Hell, even dictionary says "rebrand" is just a change of the company or product image. Not content, image aka apperance. HD7970 to R9-280X transition was exactly that. Same core, slightly updated software (BIOS) and new stickers. A rebrand. R9-290X to R9-390X holds a similar layout of the old GPU, but features completelly new shaders which are way more efficient than old ones, way more efficient tessellation unit and framebufer compression. A refresh. How freaking more clear can I be?

 

[Luka KLLP]

You can't blame RejZoR for repeating his story if people keep arguing even though he's actually consistent in what he says and by his definitions the 390x IS in fact a refresh of the 290x
I would also want to have the last word if I knew I was right.

Edit: provided of course that what he says about the hardware of the 390x is really true, which we can't know for sure

 

[eidairaman1]

the designs have been refined, unlike the transition from the 7900-R280

 

[RejZoR]

Someone has been paying attention to my posts...

 

[eidairaman1]

Someone has been paying attention to my posts...

all the naysayers always are, Honestly it doesnt matter how well the 390X and Fury run as I have a 290 in my rig on a old old monitor anyway. (thing is bulky as hell though due to the HSF making the card take up 3 slots)

 

[GhostRyder]

No.. please spare us...

But really - can you clarify why the 390X is a refresh over 290X? Do you know what GCN 390X has? And FTR, if that is implemented in firmware, not hardware - it's a rebrand. The hardware MUST change to qualify as a refresh. What have AMD changed with the 290X Hawaii chip. Or, how if it is a Tonga refresh - is Tonga any different from Hawaii? I'm simply going pretty much on all the tech sites saying it is a rebrand. I believe in them more than you - no offence.

Well its all going to come down to the release as it would seem there is very little proof one way or the other. Some of the reasons its considered to be a refresh and not a rebrand is because there was a picture (I am currently looking for it but lost it somehow) from AMD claiming the entire series (R7 370 and up) would support all new GCN features including those supported by the R9 285 which currently is the latest chip on the market, the fact the 285 exists would seem like a wasted effort in development if they just ignored the new changes that brought out for the old one (Especially considering their push for things like Freesync), and the fact that the chip designations are different (Err ill double check the last one but I know Hawaii is now called Grenada) at least hints to something being done. I am still putting this up as speculation, but it would be a big mistake to release this series top dog chips without support for all the new features they are trying to push (Even simple things like the color compression and the improvements in the architecture (Like tessellation which is supposed to be improved) along with Freesync) as that is free improvements that can help push them over the edge in some areas.

With their R&D stretched so thin, any improvements they can bring is a win and can help keep them relevant in the GPU market. That is my outlook and based off what I have seen/heard. I could always be wrong but I feel it would be a big slap in the face to miss the opportunity and a waste of time to have just Tonga and Fiji support new features (Top end and lower middle support new features only?).

 

[the54thvoid]

R9-290X to R9-390X holds a similar layout of the old GPU, but features completelly new shaders which are way more efficient than old ones, way more efficient tessellation unit and framebufer compression. A refresh. How freaking more clear can I be?

Where do you have this info from? That is all I am asking. How do you know the architecture of the 390X. Regardless of this, it is still re-using the Hawaii architecture. A tweak here or there may be classed as a refresh but the refinements simply mask a re-used chip. I'm not saying it's bad. Far from it. It's an effective use of already proven hardware.

What I think we would all have preferred is a cascade downwards of Fiji parts to cover the 290X position.

And stop thinking I'm ignoring your posts and their content - I simply ask - how do you know the architecture of the 390X when there is no public available info, other than the leaked specs on core, memory etc?

That's all. Let's hug and be euro friends. You're Slovenian right? Well you know of the band Laibach? I love 'em. I have a Spectre belt - I saw them earlier this year - they're from Yugo originally but they are a Slovenian band as such now. See, we're closer than you think.

 

[RejZoR]

You can't blame RejZoR for repeating his story if people keep arguing even though he's actually consistent in what he says and by his definitions the 390x IS in fact a refresh of the 290x
I would also want to have the last word if I knew I was right.

Edit: provided of course that what he says about the hardware of the 390x is really true, which we can't know for sure

Well, all you need to do is use logic. You can't reuse old card for the new card rebrand and have it within same range. That would be a business suicide. But dropping it one level down, I can see it as an option. HD7970 transition to R9-280X did just that. Last year, HD7970 was top end, next year, R9-280X dropped one notch down and high end got replaced by R9-290X. It's a usual business practice done by both AMD and NVIDIA. Same applies to refreshes. They are doing them for years and years in exactly the same way. So, if you've been following graphic cards industry for 15+ years like I have, you kinda learn their ways...

 

[Luka KLLP]

Well, all you need to do is use logic. You can't reuse old card for the new card rebrand and have it within same range. That would be a business suicide. But dropping it one level down, I can see it as an option. HD7970 transition to R9-280X did just that. Last year, HD7970 was top end, next year, R9-280X dropped one notch down and high end got replaced by R9-290X. It's a usual business practice done by both AMD and NVIDIA. Same applies to refreshes. They are doing them for years and years in exactly the same way. So, if you've been following graphic cards industry for 15+ years like I have, you kinda learn their ways...

Yeah that makes a lot of sense. We'll see soon if you're right