OFFICIAL Fallout 4 (Discussion)

[TheMailMan78]

Seems like Bethesda has finally decided to answer some questions.
http://bethesda.net/?utm_source=twi...ame/fallout-4-launch-and-beyond/2015/09/08/22

The short of it:
1) Season pass is all DLC, and will be $30
2) Creation kit will be released next year for PC.
3) "Regular" free updates will be a thing.


It sounds like Skyrim all over again. The game will release as a pile of bugs, and be fixed over a couple of months. Along the way, the "free" content will make sure buyers aren't angry, because the game is so buggy.

God, I hope it isn't Fallout 3 version 2.0. That game still requires a fire wrench just to get the GOTY version identifying all the content. The GOTY version that should just work, because it's a celebration of everything rather than an in=process work.

I don't care. I want Fallout 4 to bust all over my face.

 

[lilhasselhoffer]

Anything on Mod Support there, 'Hoff?

Point 2. The creation kit is modding and custom levels. I'm assuming it'll be something like the GECK for Fallout 3, but that may be presumption.

I don't care. I want Fallout 4 to bust all over my face.

I think this is as close to a "money shot" as we'll be getting for a while. Given Bethesda has functionally already started their money presses, and those plastic pip-boys are rarer than unicorn horns.

 

[Mussels]

Seems like Bethesda has finally decided to answer some questions.
http://bethesda.net/?utm_source=twi...ame/fallout-4-launch-and-beyond/2015/09/08/22

The short of it:
1) Season pass is all DLC, and will be $30
2) Creation kit will be released next year for PC.
3) "Regular" free updates will be a thing.


It sounds like Skyrim all over again. The game will release as a pile of bugs, and be fixed over a couple of months. Along the way, the "free" content will make sure buyers aren't angry, because the game is so buggy.

God, I hope it isn't Fallout 3 version 2.0. That game still requires a fire wrench just to get the GOTY version identifying all the content. The GOTY version that should just work, because it's a celebration of everything rather than an in=process work.

FO3 worked piss easy for me on steam with all the DLC, had no issues getting them to work. just had to enable them once in the launcher.

 

[JayCan73]

Do you guys think I can get away with running this on a 4.2ghz Pentium? Half the reason I ever bought a pc for gaming was cause my collectors edition of fallout new vegas wouldn't work with the dlc's. US version of the disk and the dlc's from the canadian playstation store didn't want to cooperate. Took like more than a year before I could play them on PS3. Trying to decide between PS4 or PC.

 

[Ahhzz]

Point 2. The creation kit is modding and custom levels. I'm assuming it'll be something like the GECK for Fallout 3, but that may be presumption.



I think this is as close to a "money shot" as we'll be getting for a while. Given Bethesda has functionally already started their money presses, and those plastic pip-boys are rarer than unicorn horns.

I meant more of the "Do they think they can get away with charging for mods now?" sort of question I didn't have time yesterday to check out the link, I'll try to this morn thanks!

 

[rtwjunkie]

I meant more of the "Do they think they can get away with charging for mods now?" sort of question I didn't have time yesterday to check out the link, I'll try to this morn thanks!

Knowing how tight with information Bethesda is about their own studio titles, I doubt we will get an actual answer until that time. It's uncharacteristic that we have what information we do!

 

[AsRock]

I vote for an Arnold Schwarzenegger voicing on some Power-Armored important NPC. Instant buy if they do

I've got a one liner they can use too:

I'LL BE RAD

Well you will have to have a choppa if that was the case.

Enjoy the rest

 

[lilhasselhoffer]

I meant more of the "Do they think they can get away with charging for mods now?" sort of question I didn't have time yesterday to check out the link, I'll try to this morn thanks!

Bethesda has been confronted about the paid mods thing before (shortly after the Skyrim debacle). They stated that Fallout 4 would not have any paid mods in it.

That doesn't mean they won't do something like the Nexus, but as a shop, in the future, but I think the Skyrim thing really brought to light how stupid it would be for Bethesda. Too much of the modding community relies on good faith, and a bit of a blind eye to potential copyright infringement, to exist.

 

[yogurt_21]

Bethesda has been confronted about the paid mods thing before (shortly after the Skyrim debacle). They stated that Fallout 4 would not have any paid mods in it.

That doesn't mean they won't do something like the Nexus, but as a shop, in the future, but I think the Skyrim thing really brought to light how stupid it would be for Bethesda. Too much of the modding community relies on good faith, and a bit of a blind eye to potential copyright infringement, to exist.

They could just go the linux route and charge for support rather than the mod itself. Seems to work for them.

 

[hellrazor]

http://techraptor.net/content/paid-modding-debacle-sees-new-chapter-sprked

 

[ZeppMan217]

FO3 worked piss easy for me on steam with all the DLC, had no issues getting them to work. just had to enable them once in the launcher.

Pretty sure he meant the shitload of bugs that plagued both F3 and Skyrim on release and years after Bethesda stopped giving a shit. Hell, if it wasn't for Unofficial Patches I wouldn't have been able to get through Skyrim.

 

[rtwjunkie]

Pretty sure he meant the shitload of bugs that plagued both F3 and Skyrim on release and years after Bethesda stopped giving a shit. Hell, if it wasn't for Unofficial Patches I wouldn't have been able to get through Skyrim.

Thank goodness for the modders, for they actually eliminated most bugs and made Fallout 3 playable too!

 

[lilhasselhoffer]

FO3 worked piss easy for me on steam with all the DLC, had no issues getting them to work. just had to enable them once in the launcher.

Allow me to elaborate.

Play the game vanilla, with just the Steam updates, and the game sucks. Crashing, bugs everywhere, and more defects than a room full of thalidomide babies. I wanted to test whether my memories were accurate, or if they were tinted. After the dozenth crash, being ejected into the air (Skyrim Mammoth style) when a grenade bouquet hit me (and dying from the fall), and more poor textures and non-loading ones than I could count I determined my memory was very rosy. The only reason that Fallout 3 was remembered was because the mod community fixed the steaming pile of turds that vanilla Fallout 3 was/is. I thought 7+ patches would have fixed it, but it definitely didn't.

As far as getting the new content to work, my game was being difficult. Apparently load order is insanely important with the DLC, and the default configuration...was less than ideal. After going to the Nexus, downloading the community patch, reading up on the ideal load order (to be clear, this was the .esms for the DLC and no other mods), restructuring it that way, and booting the game through FOMM all of the DLC suddenly worked. I logged in, and a stream of updates came through.




Allow me to frame this as progress, that means Fallout 4 might only be a gimp, and not a stillbirth that the community needs to nurture into a good game.
1) Fallout 3 blows. The community patched the crap out of it, and it's relatively good, if still buggy, in its current state.
2) Fallout: New Vegas was buggy, but took way less community effort to fix.
3) Skyrim was a bug fiesta for months after release. The big change here is Bethesda actually put a lot of effort into quashing bugs. They fell through on some elements (that UI is horrifying with a mouse and keyboard), but the community polished that golden turd trophy to a mirror shine. Yeah it might be a turd, but I wouldn't be opposed to having a chunk of gold in that shape.
4) Logically, Fallout 4 should release with minor bugs. If the established trend is followed, we're looking at something that is actually playable, and the bugs should be pretty minor. The community will take that solid gold heart, and build it the monstrous skeleton which will give it life, rather than simply having to deliver life support to keep the thing working.

Point 4 is conjecture, but it'd be nice. If Fallout 4 releases like Fallout 3 I won't be buying it until 2017. By then you should be able to get the GOTY cheaply, and the community will have fixed everything backwards that Bethesda couldn't be bothered to fix.

 

[rtwjunkie]

Allow me to elaborate.

Play the game vanilla, with just the Steam updates, and the game sucks. Crashing, bugs everywhere, and defects than a room full of thalidomide babies. I wanted to test whether my memories were accurate, or if they were tinted. After the dozenth crash, being ejected into the air (Skyrim Mammoth style) when a grenade bouquet hit me (and dying from the fall), and more poor textures and non-loading ones than I could count I determined my memory was very rosy. The only reason that Fallout 3 was remembered was because the mod community fixed the steaming pile of turds that vanilla Fallout 3 was/is. I thought 7+ patches would have fixed it, but it definitely didn't.

As far as getting the new content to work, my game was being difficult. Apparently load order is insanely important with the DLC, and the default configuration...was less than ideal. After going to the Nexus, downloading the community patch, reading up on the ideal load order (to be clear, this was the .esms for the DLC and no other mods), restructuring it that way, and booting the game through FOMM all of the DLC suddenly worked. I logged in, and a stream of updates came through.




Allow me to frame this as progress, that means Fallout 4 might only be a gimp, and not a stillbirth that the community needs to nurture into a good game.
1) Fallout 3 blows. The community patched the crap out of it, and it's relatively good, if still buggy, in its current state.
2) Fallout: New Vegas was buggy, but took way less community effort to fix.
3) Skyrim was a bug fiesta for months after release. The big change here is Bethesda actually put a lot of effort into quashing bugs. They fell through on some elements (that UI is horrifying with a mouse and keyboard), but the community polished that golden turd trophy to a mirror shine. Yeah it might be a turd, but I wouldn't be opposed to having a chunk of gold in that shape.
4) Logically, Fallout 4 should release with minor bugs. If the established trend is followed, we're looking at something that is actually playable, and the bugs should be pretty minor. The community will take that solid gold heart, and build it the monstrous skeleton which will give it life, rather than simply having to deliver life support to keep the thing working.

Point 4 is conjecture, but it'd be nice. If Fallout 4 releases like Fallout 3 I won't be buying it until 2017. By then you should be able to get the GOTY cheaply, and the community will have fixed everything backwards that Bethesda couldn't be bothered to fix.

I'm unsure about your point 4, because it relates to point 2. Point 2: Why was it less buggy, allowing modders to almost immediately focus on extra content? I contend it is because Obsidian made that one, whereas the other 2 and presumably the 3rd (Fallout 4) were immensely buggy because Bethesda Studios made them.

Modded up, Skyrim will be a game for the ages, although it took a community to fix it, but Obsidian did the best job at a vanilla game. This is why I hesitate to give Bethesda Studios the benefit of the doubt on Fallout 4.

 

[Frick]

How do I know the game will be a great hiking simulator and a crappy RPG? Because it already is a hiking simulator in everyones mind. Yes, I will bring this up every time I post in this thread. Crapping is in my blood.

I finished New Vegas + DLC without mods and it was a-ok to me. I can't recall a single bug, at least nothing that stood out.

EDIT: I recently started a new playthroguh of Skryrim actually, with mods, but it felt ... just meh. It looked better and the sky was prettier and so on and randomized starting locations are fun, but it's still the same sort of great big lake of shallow water. It's a beautiful beach and you wade out into the surf longing for the feeling of floating free, but it never comes because the water never goes above your waist.

 

[lilhasselhoffer]

How do I know the game will be a great hiking simulator and a crappy RPG? Because it already is a hiking simulator in everyones mind. Yes, I will bring this up every time I post in this thread. Crapping is in my blood.

I finished New Vegas + DLC without mods and it was a-ok to me. I can't recall a single bug, at least nothing that stood out.

EDIT: I recently started a new playthroguh of Skryrim actually, with mods, but it felt ... just meh. It looked better and the sky was prettier and so on and randomized starting locations are fun, but it's still the same sort of great big lake of shallow water. It's a beautiful beach and you wade out into the surf longing for the feeling of floating free, but it never comes because the water never goes above your waist.

I agree that Obsidian, despite some handicaps, managed to produce what was the best vanilla game. At the same time, bug free it was not: http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout:_New_Vegas_bugs

To be fair, that page of bugs is a bit of cherry-picking, because I can't say I've experienced a lot of them. Also, even when the game bugged out it usually wasn't a crash. Fallout 3 vanilla has demonstrated basically every single bug that has been cataloged, and I stopped playing that crap after only a couple of days.



Yes, Bethsda is creatively bankrupt. Play Fallout 3, New Vegas, Skyrim, and tell me exactly what the difference is. My only comment is no decay in Skyrim, along with a heavier focus on melee for Skyrim. Otherwise all of these games are RNG encounters peppered between lumps of surprisingly similar content. If you say otherwise you're not objectively analyzing the game. Likewise, racing games are a time waste simulator (end and start point being the same means you've gone nowhere), shooters are a test of twitch reflexes and full of awful 10 year old, MMOs are what accountants do for fun (Numbers!) , and simulators are for people too afraid to go out and do something in real life. Now I've angered everyone, the real question must be asked. Does knowing any of this change the game? I'll say that's a no, and that very flat statement is why MMOs exist. They use psychological tricks to make the play, and not any goal, the reason to do the thing.

Objectivity towards the overarching tropes in an experience doesn't demean a good experience. Heck, Halo has made an entire series out of maybe 6 different types of enemies, with maybe 20 different variations total. Despite the extreme lack of diversity, it's still fun to turn off your brain and run a deathmatch. Sometimes it isn't the destination, but the journey that matter. Bethesda has lived by that motto for decades now, there's no other way to explain why they could make a basically unpopulated world, and still have people describe it as if there was a character to it. Honestly, I'd take a hiking simulator with poor RPG mechanics any day of the week, instead of a simulation where billionaires exploit millionaires playing a game a few hours a week.

 

[yogurt_21]

^ hey no shattering my world man. Games are like totally meaningful uses of my time. Btw while we're on the subject Fantasy Football is what accountants do for fun. Think about it.


at any rate The best part of TES is the fact that the modding community has already fixed what you think is wrong. Any time you say "gee you know what would make this better?" I guarantee there's a mod for that. Guards annoying? mod for that. Kids annoying? mods for that. Can't kill that guy? mod for that. Graphics not to your liking? 50 bajillion mods for that. Horses suck? mod for that. Want to play the game in total war style? Yeah that exists too.

I mean shoot they've modded oblivion and Skyrim so much that they're porting Morrowind to both. (granting morroblivion has a 5 year head start over skywind) Essentially the "you know what would be better" came down to Morrowind with better graphics and voice acting and boom, there it is.

For anything you want the modding community will make it. It's amazing and something I really enjoy in a world over encumbered with mmo's and consoles.

 

[marmiteonpizza]

I just wrote an email to Bethesda basically offering to blow everyone in the building for a pip-boy.

Rather you than me mate, haha.

 

[brandonwh64]

You have to remember fallout NV is 5 years old and it was mainly a storyline expansion of FO3 just with some small updated things like aim down sites and stuff. You think they have released many fallouts but there was really only two.

 

[rtwjunkie]

^ hey no shattering my world man. Games are like totally meaningful uses of my time. Btw while we're on the subject Fantasy Football is what accountants do for fun. Think about it.


at any rate The best part of TES is the fact that the modding community has already fixed what you think is wrong. Any time you say "gee you know what would make this better?" I guarantee there's a mod for that. Guards annoying? mod for that. Kids annoying? mods for that. Can't kill that guy? mod for that. Graphics not to your liking? 50 bajillion mods for that. Horses suck? mod for that. Want to play the game in total war style? Yeah that exists too.

I mean shoot they've modded oblivion and Skyrim so much that they're porting Morrowind to both. (granting morroblivion has a 5 year head start over skywind) Essentially the "you know what would be better" came down to Morrowind with better graphics and voice acting and boom, there it is.

For anything you want the modding community will make it. It's amazing and something I really enjoy in a world over encumbered with mmo's and consoles.

Damn, you nailed it to the wall, and fully expressed why I am not so hard on Bethesda! Modders can virtually make the game their own, any way they want, whether it be Fallout or TES series!

 

[lilhasselhoffer]

^ hey no shattering my world man. Games are like totally meaningful uses of my time. Btw while we're on the subject Fantasy Football is what accountants do for fun. Think about it.


at any rate The best part of TES is the fact that the modding community has already fixed what you think is wrong. Any time you say "gee you know what would make this better?" I guarantee there's a mod for that. Guards annoying? mod for that. Kids annoying? mods for that. Can't kill that guy? mod for that. Graphics not to your liking? 50 bajillion mods for that. Horses suck? mod for that. Want to play the game in total war style? Yeah that exists too.

I mean shoot they've modded oblivion and Skyrim so much that they're porting Morrowind to both. (granting morroblivion has a 5 year head start over skywind) Essentially the "you know what would be better" came down to Morrowind with better graphics and voice acting and boom, there it is.

For anything you want the modding community will make it. It's amazing and something I really enjoy in a world over encumbered with mmo's and consoles.

I don't contest any points you've made. Now, a reality call.

1) Bethesda should be held accountable, and release a game that isn't crap. We hold EA, Ubisoft, and everyone else accountable for this, but somehow Bethesda gets a pass. I call BS.
2) The modification tools were basically forced out of Bethesda, because FO3 sucked so hard. Prior to that, mods were something that nobody gave a lot of thought to [back in the days where DLC was rare, but almost always worth the price]. Heck, most publishers still don't support the community.
3) Bethesda is still eyeing up the paid mods theory. Whatever they officially say, that money had to be pretty freaking sweet. You can bet that they'd try it again, if they weren't sure the community would crucify them for doing so.
4) The fan/modding community is largely tolerated because Bethesda can still lay claim to your crap. Read the ToS, if they wanted to take a freely available mod, turn that exact code into a new paid DLC bundle, and never offer you a penny they could. Of course, they'd have to go through and add half a dozen bugs before anyone would believe it came from them.


I love the mod community. Unreal Tournament wouldn't have been the same without being Bender, Skyrim would have suck without SkyUI, and Fallout 3 is still an unplayable mess as its sold on the Steam store. At the same time, developers are eyeing up the modding community as the next cash cow. They've basically made DLC a joke with day one releases, they've pushed seller exclusive content so hard that people actually expressed anger over never being able to buy a "full" game without buying it multiple times, producers have forced developers to push still-birthed games out the door just to make money, and pre-orders are getting to the point where they will "release the game early" if there are enough of them (curse you Deus Ex!). If publishers are willing to be that crappy in their business practices, then what makes you believe modders are sacrosanct?

 

[rtwjunkie]

@lilhasselhoffer where have you been? The modding tools were released for Oblivion to the fans long before FO3 was a twinkle in your eye , so it started before FO3.

 

[lilhasselhoffer]

@lilhasselhoffer where have you been? The modding tools were released for Oblivion to the fans long before FO3 was a twinkle in your eye , so it started before FO3.

Poor memory on my part. I could have sworn that Fallout 3 and Oblivion released closer together.

My bad.

Jesus, Fallout 3 was from 2008? I could have sworn it was the one released in the early 2000s. Wow.



Edit:

That's why. I was rembering the initial hype in the early 2000's about the Interplay version of the game. Surprising how foggy memory can be sometimes. Doesn't change that I was incorrect on the timeline though.

Edit:

For those who might be as fuzzy on the timeline as I was:
Oblivion: March 20, 2006
Fallout 3: October 28, 2008
Fallout NV: October 19, 2010
Skyrim: November 11, 2011

It'll be 4 years since a Bethesda release. Maybe this time their QC department is going to be called before the game releases...maybe...???

 

[64K]

Oblivion came out 2 years before Fallout 3. I don't think Oblivion would even be playable if not for the modding comunity. iirc the Unofficial Patch fixed over 2,000 bugs and that's after Bethesda and 2K Games gave up even trying to patch the game. Still have to admit that I really enjoyed Oblivion and Fallout 1 and 2. Not so much Fallout 3 and it put me off from New Vegas but I will play it one day. As a publisher Bethesda definitely has issues with buggy games but once they're patched well they are some great games.

 

[rtwjunkie]

Oblivion came out 2 years before Fallout 3. I don't think Oblivion would even be playable if not for the modding comunity. iirc the Unofficial Patch fixed over 2,000 bugs and that's after Bethesda and 2K Games gave up even trying to patch the game. Still have to admit that I really enjoyed Oblivion and Fallout 1 and 2. Not so much Fallout 3 and it put me off from New Vegas but I will play it one day. As a publisher Bethesda definitely has issues with buggy games but once they're patched well they are some great games.

Oh you really SHOULD play New Vegas. It was only published by Bethesda. It's Obsidian's game really, and it shows. Of all 4 listed above since 2006, it was the least buggy.

It also has the distinction of being second only to Skyrim in the number of mods on The Nexus.