AMD Vega 10, Vega 20, and Vega 11 GPUs Detailed

looncraz · Sep 20, 2016

bug said:
This very leak (or whatever it is) says Vega 10 is between GP104 and GP102, placing a hard limit on the upper limit.

Not exactly. 12TFLOPS single precision doesn't tell you everything you need to know about the GPU's performance.

For example, it doesn't take into account, at all, the impact of memory bandwidth. It doesn't take into account things such as primitive discard, improved scheduling, and so on... It's just an accumulation of the processing power in the shaders.

12 TFLOPs tells us only two two things that are likely: GCN4 SPs are still likely in use. 1.266GHz is the target clock-speed:

+15% - GCN SPs vs Fiji SPs
+20% - Higher clock speed than Fury X (1.26GHz vs 1.05GHz)

That takes Fury X's 8.6T to right about 12T. A few minor improvements (and some rounding in the rumor) will cover the minor gap.

Given how constrained performance on Polaris 10 is by memory bandwidth, we should expect an additional gain in FPS from that - 15% is fair game (you can nearly get that just by overclocking RX 480's memory... gains are effectively linear). Vega includes the new primitive discard and other benefits seen in Polaris 10 as well, so this will push effective performance compared to Fury X even more.

If you add 60% more performance to Fury X, where do you land? Bingo. Still, from 40% to 60% over Fury X is a pretty broad range - and only the top of this will catch up to the top Pascal GPU.

HD64G · Sep 20, 2016

bug said:
Yes, because it's Nvidia that sells rebranded products from 3 years ago.
Neither Nvidia nor AMD will innovate unless pushed to. Baseless extrapolations do not help.

@HD64G Are you really inferring the future of GPUs from one title or am I missing something?

Just pointing out the mistake most people do by judging HW instead of SW when comparing archs. Only by making full use of an arch you can compare its efficiency. And Vulcan is the best case scenario for AMD GPUs to get them fully utilised. DX12 games built from the ground up might achieve the same. DX11 and Open GL do already the same for nVidia ones.

Captain_Tom · Sep 20, 2016

AlienIsGOD said:
already announcing a RX 480/470 replacement? lame Vega 11 should be faster hopefully

Polaris is just a cheap stop-gap. I believe next year plans to have their line-up nearly top-bottom Vega HBM cards.

Hence the 475 and 485 will be 4GB HBM cards, and the RX Furies will be 8GB HBM cards. The 465 may even be a 2GB HBM card.

ensabrenoir · Sep 20, 2016

......got it!!! No need for further bickering guys by using this simple equation:

I have determined that Nvdia will maintain the performance crown.....at a hefty price and Amd will design something ridiculously advanced that won't be fully
utilized for years to come but be at a great price.
/thread.

$ReaPeR$ · Sep 20, 2016

Basard said:
Bodes just fine for a lot of us though. There are plenty of GPUs to choose from, just not so many CPUs.

how come? its another 6 months till vega comes out and until then AMD has only 3 cards in the market and none of them is in the high-end upper section of the market.

Captain_Tom · Sep 20, 2016

$ReaPeR$ said:
how come? its another 6 months till vega comes out and until then AMD has only 3 cards in the market and none of them is in the high-end upper section of the market.

Fury is $300 and trades blows with the 1070.

I definitely wish Vega was here as an alternative to the Titan, but I would rather AMD wait and release a monster card with HBM2 than rush out a half-baked GDDR5X card in the Ultra-High end.

$ReaPeR$ · Sep 20, 2016

Captain_Tom said:
Fury is $300 and trades blows with the 1070.

I definitely wish Vega was here as an alternative to the Titan, but I would rather AMD wait and release a monster card with HBM2 than rush out a half-baked GDDR5X card in the Ultra-High end.

I'm not arguing with that, but you know how the market generally works, recent=new.

the54thvoid · Sep 20, 2016

Vayra86 said:
Fury X was showing lackluster performance and meh overclockability when it was just released.

TODAY Fury X is showing its true power and there is actually a lot more still in the can (stock cooled Fury X throttles) - it is still competing against top end GPUs like 980ti (comfortably beating it at 4K, and equal or better in almost any DX12/Vulkan game, 2-3% lower in DX11 lower res)

Stock cooled Fury X is water cooled....

Also, When Fury X was released it was meant to be awesome but it was a bit of a disappointment. When you say it matches a 980ti and beats it (game environment dependent, massive 20% OC of 980ti not withstanding) it actually should match it - they were price point stable mates. They were last years top gen. A Fury X was meant to take on Nvidia. Now it is, a year later. The 1070 replaces the 980 ti and the 1080 takes the 2nd top crown in the vast majority of titles. 1080 even beats Fury X in AotS, Hitman, ROTR and Warhammer (all DX12). Remember, generationally the 1080 replaces the 980 (which Fury X pisses on).

No arguing Fury X is a great card but it's hard to listen to people saying how poorly NVidia cards age when my 980ti is still trouncing framerates. I'm on DX11 of course so I don't get to see the fuss but so far, DX12 hasn't delivered better graphics.

So, to recap, when you say

it is still competing against top end GPUs like 980ti

It came out after it and was 'meant' to beat it back then. It's only now performing as it was meant to back in 2015 (and mainly in specific, not all, DX12 and one Vulkan title) but it's still weaker than Nvidia's 2nd top card (1080).

And to clarify - I want Vega to beat the Titan X.

Basard · Sep 20, 2016

ensabrenoir said:
.....so from Hype train:
View attachment 79031

to silence:

to slowly back peddling....
View attachment 79032

then a "Second place Champions" /great value /
a little something something for our loyal sheep release......

...... yep....typical Amd.....

I'll have one AMD please!

Captain_Tom · Sep 20, 2016

$ReaPeR$ said:
I'm not arguing with that, but you know how the market generally works, recent=new.

Haha I know buddy. Imo the new cards are just crazy overpriced and not at all future-proofed (At least Nvidia's).

The 480 is fantastic, but just not quite strong enough for me. Thus I ended up buying a Fury Nitro and overclocking it to 1135/518. I wish I had more, but for $300 I can't complain.

dyonoctis · Sep 20, 2016

Captain_Tom said:
Polaris is just a cheap stop-gap. I believe next year plans to have their line-up nearly top-bottom Vega HBM cards.

Hence the 475 and 485 will be 4GB HBM cards, and the RX Furies will be 8GB HBM cards. The 465 may even be a 2GB HBM card.

More like 8Gb, It would be a shame to lauch a polaris replacement with (we can only assume ) twice the bandwidth, with only 4Gb.

But that's also mean another thing: people are going to wait to get their mid-rang hbm gpu, meaning that polaris gpu will still get a lot of stock when the refresh launch. I have a bad feeling about the pricing of the refresh.

Fluffmeister · Sep 20, 2016

This stinks of 980 Ti Vs Fury X all over again, sure the Fury might come good eventually, but everyone else has already moved on.

I'm already looking forward to Volta.

Captain_Tom · Sep 20, 2016

the54thvoid said:
Stock cooled Fury X is water cooled....

Also, When Fury X was released it was meant to be awesome but it was a bit of a disappointment. When you say it matches a 980ti and beats it (game environment dependent, massive 20% OC of 980ti not withstanding) it actually should match it - they were price point stable mates. They were last years top gen. A Fury X was meant to take on Nvidia. Now it is, a year later. The 1070 replaces the 980 ti and the 1080 takes the 2nd top crown in the vast majority of titles. 1080 even beats Fury X in AotS, Hitman, ROTR and Warhammer (all DX12). Remember, generationally the 1080 replaces the 980 (which Fury X pisses on).

No arguing Fury X is a great card but it's hard to listen to people saying how poorly NVidia cards age when my 980ti is still trouncing framerates. I'm on DX11 of course so I don't get to see the fuss but so far, DX12 hasn't delivered better graphics.

So, to recap, when you say

It came out after it and was 'meant' to beat it back then. It's only now performing as it was meant to back in 2015 (and mainly in specific, not all, DX12 and one Vulkan title) but it's still weaker than Nvidia's 2nd top card (1080).

And to clarify - I want Vega to beat the Titan X.

I have to ask what games it is "trouncing" in:

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/...a-11-gpus-detailed.226012/page-5#post-3526293

On average the Fury X is beating it in every resolution but 1080p (And even then it loses by 4%). Furthermore the best indicators of this fall and next year's game performance are DOOM and Deus EX where the Fury X does in fact TROUNCE the 980 Ti by 20%.

I will agree it would have been nice if the Fury X performed this well last year, but at the end of the day who really cares?! Both the 980 Ti and the Fury X destroyed all games last year, and it never mattered the 980 Ti was like 5% stronger. Yes it overclocked WAY better at launch, but then again the Fury series overclocked perfectly fine once voltages were unlocked (Although of course Maxwell overclocks better on average still).

Captain_Tom · Sep 20, 2016

dyonoctis said:
More like 8Gb, It would be a shame to lauch a polaris replacement with (we can only assume ) twice the bandwidth, with only 4Gb.

But that's also mean another thing: people are going to wait to get their mid-rang hbm gpu, meaning that polaris gpu will still get a lot of stock when the refresh launch. I have a bad feeling about the pricing of the refresh.

I mean HBM2 would also make it perform like 25% better while reducing powerdraw by at least 50w. Totally worth it for a 1440p card.

$ReaPeR$ · Sep 20, 2016

Captain_Tom said:
Haha I know buddy. Imo the new cards are just crazy overpriced and not at all future-proofed (At least Nvidia's).

The 480 is fantastic, but just not quite strong enough for me. Thus I ended up buying a Fury Nitro and overclocking it to 1135/518. I wish I had more, but for $300 I can't complain.

well, future proofing is a long conversation.. but, to the point, the fury is an eol product and as such is not really relevant to the market today, not for the vast majority of it at least,

danbert2000 · Sep 20, 2016

Captain_Tom said:
Fury is $300 and trades blows with the 1070.

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/GTX_1070_Gaming_Z/26.html

Yeah, I see the Fury somewhere on that list. Somewhere very far away from the 1070 stock, let alone OC. I guess you'll retort that all the recent AMD Gaming Evolved (totally not GamWorks guyz) games have been doing pretty well on the Fury series, too bad that comes with crazy frame spikes on AMD cards. Curious that only AMD sponsored games have had such differing performance, when AotS, TW: Warhammer, Tomb Raider, etc have been doing just fine on Nvidia.

https://techreport.com/review/30639...x-12-performance-in-deus-ex-mankind-divided/3

Who knows, maybe vendor-neutral DirectX 12 and Vulkan games will continue to help the Fury reach up near 1070 performance. All I know is that the vast majority of games being played today perform 20% better on the 1070 and don't suck up 300 watts while doing it.

Captain_Tom · Sep 20, 2016

$ReaPeR$ said:
well, future proofing is a long conversation.. but, to the point, the fury is an eol product and as such is not really relevant to the market today, not for the vast majority of it at least,

Is the 1070 EOL? Fury Nitro matches it, and the Fury X trades blows with the 1080 in the latest games. Say whatever you want - an EOL AMD product matches Nvida's new High-end cards.

All future poofing means for me is that the product will continue to provide the same experience, or even a better experience for 2-3 years. People who bought an i7 5 years ago continue to get 60-100 FPS in the latest games while the old i3's need to be replaced (SB i3's can't really do 60 FPS anymore). Of course nothing is completely future proof, but I expect my products to maintain their relative value for 3 years, and frankly they should never lose performance to their launch competition.

TheGuruStud · Sep 21, 2016

Captain_Tom said:
Can we drop the whole HBM vs GDDR5 thing?

It doesn't matter if they make the card with potatos or Jet packs. What matters is the final product.

Furthermore it kinda sounded like Nvidia was looking at GDDR6 over HBM2. GDDR6 will offer HBM1 - Cheap HBM2 like performance, but with 3x the power usage.

Didn't samsung say it won't be ready until 2018 (I would guess mid year)? I guess that could work. Nvidia just won't put out any new cards except 1080ti and maybe a 1060/1070 refresh. There will be no reason for Volta if AMD doesn't deliver something good.

Captain_Tom · Sep 21, 2016

danbert2000 said:
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/GTX_1070_Gaming_Z/26.html

Yeah, I see the Fury somewhere on that list. Somewhere very far away from the 1070 stock, let alone OC. I guess you'll retort that all the recent AMD Gaming Evolved (totally not GamWorks guyz) games have been doing pretty well on the Fury series, too bad that comes with crazy frame spikes on AMD cards. Curious that only AMD sponsored games have had such differing performance, when AotS, TW: Warhammer, Tomb Raider, etc have been doing just fine on Nvidia.

https://techreport.com/review/30639...x-12-performance-in-deus-ex-mankind-divided/3

Who knows, maybe vendor-neutral DirectX 12 and Vulkan games will continue to help the Fury reach up near 1070 performance. All I know is that the vast majority of games being played today perform 20% better on the 1070 and don't suck up 300 watts while doing it.

So you can include a list of benchmarks that includes Gameworks games, but I can't list Gaming Evolved games? Ok yeah that makes sense buddy. I also love that you act like AMD-sponsored games are the same as Gamesworks even though it has been proven time and again that they don't actively hamper Nvidia's performance. This is before we even get into the fact that AMD's Evolved packages are open-sourced and almost all Nvidia-sponsored games include a black box of code that nukes AMD's performance and makes the game unplayable FOR EVERYONE at launch. Maybe you liked the launch of Batman.

We can talk about AoTS and Warhammer all you want lol:

http://www.guru3d.com/articles-page...-graphics-performance-benchmark-review,6.html

The way it's meant to be played: At a lower framerate!

Captain_Tom · Sep 21, 2016

TheGuruStud said:
Didn't samsung say it won't be ready until 2018 (I would guess mid year)? I guess that could work. Nvidia just won't put out any new cards except 1080ti and maybe a 1060/1070 refresh. There will be no reason for Volta if AMD doesn't deliver something good.

I can't honestly remember off the top of my head. I thought it was 2017. Provide a link if you please

TheGuruStud · Sep 21, 2016

Captain_Tom said:
I can't honestly remember off the top of my head. I thought it was 2017. Provide a link if you please

https://www.techpowerup.com/225255/samsung-bets-on-gddr6-for-2018-rollout

danbert2000 · Sep 21, 2016

Captain_Tom said:
The way it's meant to be played: At a lower framerate!

...except the benchmark you shared proves that the 1070 does better than the Fury, and that's before OC. So what are you trying to prove again?

EDIT: Actually, Techpowerup themselves just did that bench again and the stock 1070 beats the Fury X at all resolutions. Looks like your argument is crumbling away. Yikes, check out those No Man's Sky benches too.

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/GTX_1070_Gaming_Z/23.html

ensabrenoir · Sep 21, 2016

.....I like many...find it fun to poke at Amd extremist from time to time.... But the delusion is palatable in here. Kinda scary....every video card has at least one game it excells at.....but its true measure is determined over a variety of titles.

Audiophizile · Sep 21, 2016

thesmokingman said:
What is your point? Did you state anything in particular? Nvidia didn't make HBM, they put their efforts in HMC and Micron. They lost out with HMC. HBM was adopted as the standard. HBM was limited to 4GB in its first generation, thus ultimately limiting the Fiji. You want to down the Fury for 4GB, but that's a limitation of the bleeding edge tech. Now that its on Gen 2, both Nvidia and AMD are now racing to capitalize on HBM. Fury not scaling higher or not competing with 980ti in certain areas isn't indicative of the true potential of HBM. That said, in some instances the Fury X runs toe to toe with 1080s today in dx12, omg?

Do you mean comes close to 1080 levels in vulkan/1 game?

phanbuey · Sep 21, 2016

danbert2000 said:
...except the benchmark you shared proves that the 1070 does better than the Fury, and that's before OC. So what are you trying to prove again?

EDIT: Actually, Techpowerup themselves just did that bench again and the stock 1070 beats the Fury X at all resolutions. Looks like your argument is crumbling away. Yikes, check out those No Man's Sky benches too.

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/GTX_1070_Gaming_Z/23.html

Eh don't even try... There will always be some excuse/reason, and then point to the 3 games out of 20 where AMD comes close and be like 'SEE! The same!'

They will also tell you that their 4GB fury X is more future proof than a 8GB 1070 "because shaders/vulcan/HBM".

In this case, though, I really do hope AMD isnt too far below that 1080... I have the 1080 and it's 100% artificially crippled... nvidia already holding back and gouging.

Audiophizile said:
Do you mean comes close to 1080 levels in vulkan/1 game?

10-15% slower but yes - that game.

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AMD Vega 10, Vega 20, and Vega 11 GPUs Detailed

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