Inside the PSU!

cdawall · Dec 23, 2016

infrared said:
I'm all for caution, but holy crap, Bill makes it sound like we want to disassemble a nuke or something.

I guess the key point is we shouldn't ever advise anyone take one apart because you don't know how competent that person might be. If you are confident enough (in regards to electrical knowledge, not bravado!) and cautious enough it's not really a big deal to take apart a PSU safely.

If you have no or little electrical knowledge, just don't!

Yep I feel like he wears an antistatic bracelet a lot.

The caps that can kill you are called hold up capacitors and are required by atx spec to run the psu with a loss of power for 16ms at full load.

Bill_Bright · Dec 23, 2016

m1dg3t said:
Want a cookie to go with your diatribe? Or just an extra hand to help wank you off

So you decide to stoop to puerile personal attacks? Way to ruin a good, mature, discussion. :wtf:

m1dg3t said:
Computer PSUs are standardized and adhere to standard specs.

As I noted but you apparently chose to ignore or are incapable of understanding, "color coding in computer power supplies has not always been standardized or required." Anyone who has kept up with the ATX Formfactor standards over the years would know this.

infrared said:
I'm all for caution, but holy crap, Bill makes it sound like we want to disassemble a nuke or something.

The problem is there are naïve stooges out there who think they understand electricity who haphazardly recommend others go sticking highly conductive probes into the heart of electronics! It happens more than some might think. Safety is something to not take likely. And then there are others who just don't understand that DC power supplies have a deadly side (the AC input) to them.

cdawall said:
The caps that can kill you are called hold up capacitors and are required by atx spec to run the psu with a loss of power for 16ms at full load.

True but that's there secondary job. And the hold-up voltage is on the output side of the transformer windings. The deadly side is on the input side.

cdawall · Dec 23, 2016

Bill_Bright said:
True but that's there secondary job. And the hold-up voltage is on the output side of the transformer windings. The deadly side is on the input side.

No bill there isn't a dangerous capacitor on the input side the mains are too low of a voltage to overcome the resistance of the human body. The X cap in the filter winding is the only cap in the power supply that hold a charge longer than a couple of seconds. It is also not going to kill anyone.

This myth of death to us all in powersupply form perpetuates from CRT repairmen. Those had capacitor banks that would legitimately kill people.

By the time someone pulls a psu pcb from the case the caps will be fully discharged.

m1dg3t · Dec 23, 2016

Bill_Bright said:
Snip/

Boo hoo. The connectors on all PSU/MoBos are standardized. No matter what colour the damn wire is. Everything else is semantics, how is that mature conversation? I'd rather watch golf. Good day.

stinger608 · Dec 23, 2016

cdawall said:
No bill there isn't a dangerous capacitor on the input side the mains are too low of a voltage to overcome the resistance of the human body. The X cap in the filter winding is the only cap in the power supply that hold a charge longer than a couple of seconds. It is also not going to kill anyone.

This myth of death to us all in powersupply form perpetuates from CRT repairmen. Those had capacitor banks that would legitimately kill people.

By the time someone pulls a psu pcb from the case the caps will be fully discharged.

I was actually reading an article over at Overclock.net that states this exact argument: http://www.overclock.net/a/capacitor-safety-in-power-supplies

And, it really stands to reason.

natr0n said:
zip tie it to the other one. wrap it first with electrical tape around it and the other one for grip for the zip tie to hold on to.

for the gap just use electrical tape(wrap it around a popsicle stick or something) like a shim between should work out fine

Actually, that might work pretty good.
I have some nonconductive 1/4" thick rubber sheets that would probably work pretty well between the two. :rockout:

Bill_Bright · Dec 23, 2016

cdawall said:
No bill there isn't a dangerous capacitor on the input side the mains are too low of a voltage to overcome the resistance of the human body.

Oh come on! If you put your paws on the input side of the PSU, it is the exact same thing as sticking two metal objects into a wall outlet then grabbing them with both hands. This is exactly why we don't want little kids sticking things in wall outlets.

@stinger608 - Good article. But I am not really concerned about the charge in the caps either - in terms of the user getting electrocuted. It is the AC coming into the supply from the wall outlet that can kill you. It is highly unlikely a PSU that is unplugged from the wall will kill you, unless you already have heart problems.

cdawall · Dec 23, 2016

stinger608 said:
I was actually reading an article over at Overclock.net that states this exact argument: http://www.overclock.net/a/capacitor-safety-in-power-supplies

And, it really stands to reason.

Actually, that might work pretty good.
I have some nonconductive 1/4" thick rubber sheets that would probably work pretty well between the two.

I was looking for that link lol read it years ago.

Bill_Bright said:
Oh come on! If you put your paws on the input side of the PSU, it is the exact same thing as sticking two metal objects into a wall outlet then grabbing them with both hands. This is exactly why we don't want little kids sticking things in wall outlets.

120@15A from a wall outlet isn't killing people unless you take a fork and stab it into your chest then put that in the outlet and lick a ground. Even household 230 isn't going to kill people...

infrared · Dec 23, 2016

Bill said:
- Good article. But I am not really concerned about the charge in the caps either - in terms of the user getting electrocuted. It is the AC coming into the supply from the wall outlet that can kill you. It is highly unlikely a PSU that is unplugged from the wall will kill you, unless you already have heart problems.

Nobody in their right mind would take apart a PSU that is still connected to the mains! wtf!

You've been on about caps all this time and now you've changed tack. :wtf:

Edit: I don't mean the above to be offensive... You've bought up a few good points in various posts, but you also exaggerate and include a lot of outright BS, which discredits everything you've said. Also, you need to be able to say "oh yeah, fair dos" or something to that effect once someone accurately debunks something you said, instead of twisting the topic to try to save face, you'll get a lot more respect from people.

stinger608 · Dec 23, 2016

Bill_Bright said:
@stinger608 - Good article. But I am not really concerned about the charge in the caps either - in terms of the user getting electrocuted. It is the AC coming into the supply from the wall outlet that can kill you. It is highly unlikely a PSU that is unplugged from the wall will kill you, unless you already have heart problems.

I realize that actually. I work with electricity up to 440 3 phase all the time. That really wasn't the reason for this discussion, although, it's good that you mention this for anyone reading that doesn't know any better.

The main reason for this discussion was how long to allow a power supply to sit prior to opening it up and removing the circuit board. I mainly wanted opinions regarding this and if anyone has done this type of work.

Bill_Bright · Dec 23, 2016

infrared said:
Nobody in their right mind would take apart a PSU that is still connected to the mains! wtf!

You just don't get it!

There are people out there who have no clue what they are doing who open up power supplies, turn them on then jam meter probes in there.

cdawall said:
120@15A from a wall outlet isn't killing people... .Even household 230 isn't going to kill people...

OMG!!!!! Wow! Talk about being naïve!

Can I be killed by 110V?

The truth is over 90% of the deaths that result from electrocution happen in residential homes and you guessed it, the voltage involved was none other than 110 volts.

What if I stuck my finger in an electrical outlet?

According to the U.S. Consumer Product Safety commission, each year approximately 4,000 people find themselves in the emergency room seeking treatment for injuries caused by accidents involving electrical outlets. About a third to one-half of these patients are children who decided to stick some kind of metal object (like a paper clip or spoon handle) or their finger into the outlet. This number may seem high, but these people are actually the lucky ones. There are hundreds of folks that never make it to the emergency room.

sneekypeet · Dec 23, 2016

The topic, we are losing it! Back onto the topic and questions at hand as we all know Stinger is not silly enough to attempt this sort of a project without due diligence! Fair public warning to everyone!

Steevo · Dec 23, 2016

Get some two part epoxy, mix up and put a dab under it with a Popsicle stick, push down and let it set for a day before using it and don't worry about it. No need to touch anything that isn't plastic or already insulated.

stinger608 · Dec 23, 2016

sneekypeet said:
we all know Stinger is not silly enough to attempt this sort of a project without due diligence!

I don't know about all that Sneeky. :laugh:

You've got a lot of confidence in me brother.

Steevo said:
Get some two part epoxy, mix up and put a dab under it with a Popsicle stick, push down and let it set for a day before using it and don't worry about it. No need to touch anything that isn't plastic or already insulated.

Now that is actually a great idea @Steevo :toast:

I just happen to have some two part epoxy on hand!

cdawall · Dec 23, 2016

I don't feel like stinger will fall ill to licking the main caps and electrical plug while working on it.

stinger608 · Dec 23, 2016

cdawall said:
I don't feel like stinger will fall ill to licking the main caps and electrical plug while working on it.

Ah, ya never know man. :laugh:

They actually look pretty tasty.

stinger608 · Dec 25, 2016

Naturally, I was testing all the caps and coils with my tester and of course, there is no voltage.

I believe there is enough of the plastic mounting bracket left that I can use it again to hold the coil in place. Straighten out some of the metal and this puppy should be good to go.

silentbogo · Dec 25, 2016

stinger608 said:
Naturally, I was testing all the caps and coils with my tester and of course, there is no voltage.

I believe there is enough of the plastic mounting bracket left that I can use it again to hold the coil in place. Straighten out some of the metal and this puppy should be good to go.

GLHF

stinger608 · Dec 25, 2016

I actually found all of the plastic bracket pieces and was able to super glue them back together.

From what it looked like, the coil was simply epoxied to the bracket. So, that is what I have done with it.

Once I fixed the bracket I just epoxied the coil to the bracket. I'll know for sure in a couple of hours as the epoxy that I used has a setup time of 3 hours to fully cure.

In the mean time, I am straightening all of the metal to the power supply case.

stinger608 · Dec 26, 2016

First, sorry for the double post.

Anyhow, I have this power supply powering up an ole DFI LanParty motherboard.

Take a look at this first image and see if the voltages seem about right?

And here is a couple of images showing the power supply and it running.

eidairaman1 · Dec 26, 2016

with vdroop and the minimum the system is pulling, seems to be ok, monitor for loading and BSODs

infrared · Dec 26, 2016

I bet if you checked it with a multimeter you'd find those voltages aren't totally accurate

EarthDog · Dec 26, 2016

Like infra said... get a MM on those parts to confirm readings.

stinger608 · Dec 26, 2016

eidairaman1 said:
monitor for loading and BSODs

I didn't have a hard drive installed or anything other than 1 gig of ram and an 8800GT video card.

I was just more testing to ensure that the power supply actually worked as it should.

Is there any software that allows a person to see what a power supply is doing in a full system?

I have a couple of systems that I could install it in to get better tests while getting under load and what not, if there is such a software.

silentbogo · Dec 27, 2016

Voltages are kind of low for a PSU without load.
Either your motherboard shows skewed values, or something ain't right.
Double check your idle voltages before you do any high-load testing.

In order to eliminate the first possibility, use a multimeter, as already pointed out by @infrared and @EarthDog.
Just do the force start on a PSU (short green to ground), and check readings on 12V, 5V, 3.3V and 5VSB.

R-T-B · Dec 27, 2016

Wait a second, that's my PSU I sold you! It's a sexy EVGA Titanium! Those don't grow on trees you know?

You wrecked it! You... PSU abuser.... I think I need to send you to PSU jail. :laugh:

Seriously... where did this happen in the mail? I didn't pack it too poorly, did I? This was you sending it after I sent it?

System Name	All the cores
Processor	2990WX
Motherboard	Asrock X399M
Cooling	CPU-XSPC RayStorm Neo, 2x240mm+360mm, D5PWM+140mL, GPU-2x360mm, 2xbyski, D4+D5+100mL
Memory	4x16GB G.Skill 3600
Video Card(s)	(2) EVGA SC BLACK 1080Ti's
Storage	2x Samsung SM951 512GB, Samsung PM961 512GB
Display(s)	Dell UP2414Q 3840X2160@60hz
Case	Caselabs Mercury S5+pedestal
Audio Device(s)	Fischer HA-02->Fischer FA-002W High edition/FA-003/Jubilate/FA-011 depending on my mood
Power Supply	Seasonic Prime 1200w
Mouse	Thermaltake Theron, Steam controller
Keyboard	Keychron K8
Software	W10P

System Name	Brightworks Systems BWS-6 E-IV
Processor	Intel Core i5-6600 @ 3.9GHz
Motherboard	Gigabyte GA-Z170-HD3 Rev 1.0
Cooling	Quality case, 2 x Fractal Design 140mm fans, stock CPU HSF
Memory	32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4 3000 Corsair Vengeance
Video Card(s)	EVGA GEForce GTX 1050Ti 4Gb GDDR5
Storage	Samsung 850 Pro 256GB SSD, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB SSD
Display(s)	Samsung S24E650BW LED x 2
Case	Fractal Design Define R4
Power Supply	EVGA Supernova 550W G2 Gold
Mouse	Logitech M190
Keyboard	Microsoft Wireless Comfort 5050
Software	W10 Pro 64-bit

System Name	All the cores
Processor	2990WX
Motherboard	Asrock X399M
Cooling	CPU-XSPC RayStorm Neo, 2x240mm+360mm, D5PWM+140mL, GPU-2x360mm, 2xbyski, D4+D5+100mL
Memory	4x16GB G.Skill 3600
Video Card(s)	(2) EVGA SC BLACK 1080Ti's
Storage	2x Samsung SM951 512GB, Samsung PM961 512GB
Display(s)	Dell UP2414Q 3840X2160@60hz
Case	Caselabs Mercury S5+pedestal
Audio Device(s)	Fischer HA-02->Fischer FA-002W High edition/FA-003/Jubilate/FA-011 depending on my mood
Power Supply	Seasonic Prime 1200w
Mouse	Thermaltake Theron, Steam controller
Keyboard	Keychron K8
Software	W10P

System Name	m1dg3t \| DeathBox \| HairPi 3
Processor	3570k @ 4.0 1.15v BIOS \| q9550 @ 3.77 1.325v BIOS
Motherboard	Asrock z77e iTX \| p5q Dlx 2301 BIOS
Cooling	Custom Water \| D-14 & HR-03gt \| Passive HSF
Memory	Samsung MV-3V4G3D 4g x 2 @ 1866 1.35v \| OcZ RpR 2g x 4 @ 1067 2.2v
Video Card(s)	MSi 7950 tf3 @1000 / 1350 \| Asus 5870 V2 @ 900 / 1275
Storage	Adata sx900 256Gb / WD 2500 HHTZ \| WD 1001 FALS x 2
Display(s)	BenQ gw2750hm \| 46" Sharp Quatron
Case	BitFenix Prodigy - m0dd3d \| Antec Fusion Remote MAX
Audio Device(s)	Onboard Toslink > Yamaha HTR 6290 \| Xonar HDAV1.3 > Yamaha DSP z7
Power Supply	Ocz mXp700w \| Ocz zx850w \| Cannakit 5v 2.5a
Mouse	Logitech G700s \| Logitech G9x - Cable Repaired
Keyboard	TT Meka G1 - Black w Cherry Blacks\| Logitech G11
Software	Win7 Home \| Xp sp3 & Vista ultimate \| Raspbian
Benchmark Scores	Epeen!! Who needs epeen??

System Name	Dean Machine/2020 Ryzenfall
Processor	Intel 4790K/AMD Ryzen 5800X
Motherboard	MSI 1150 Gaming mATX/Asus ROG STRIX B550-F Gaming Wifi
Cooling	Cooler Master Hyper 212 LED/SilverStone AH240 AIO
Memory	16 gigs Crucial Ballistix Tactical Tracer/32 gigs G.Skill TridentZ NEO DDR4
Video Card(s)	Gigabyte 1660 Super/EVGA GTX 1080 FTW Hybrid Gaming
Storage	Crucial SSD 256 and 2TB spinner/Dual Samsung 980 Pro M2 NVME 4.0
Display(s)	Overlord 27" 2560 x 1440
Case	Corsair Air 540
Audio Device(s)	On board
Power Supply	Seasonic modular 850 watt Platinum/EVGA T2-850 Titanium
Software	Windows 10 Pro/Windows 10 Pro

System Name	Box of Distraction
Processor	Ryzen 7 1800X
Motherboard	Crosshair VI Hero
Cooling	Custom watercooling
Memory	G.Skill TridentZ 2x8GB @ 3466MHz CL14 1T
Video Card(s)	EVGA 1080Ti FE. WC'd & TDP limit increased to 360W.
Storage	Samsung 960 Evo 500GB & WD Black 2TB storage drive.
Display(s)	Asus ROG Swift PG278QR 27" 1440P 165hz Gsync
Case	Phanteks Enthoo Pro M
Audio Device(s)	Phillips Fidelio X2 headphones / basic Bose speakers
Power Supply	EVGA Supernova 750W G3
Mouse	Logitech G602
Keyboard	Cherry MX Board 6.0 (mx red switches)
Software	Win 10 & Linux Mint
Benchmark Scores	https://hwbot.org/user/infrared

System Name	EVA-01
Processor	Intel i7 13700K
Motherboard	Asus ROG Maximus Z690 HERO EVA Edition
Cooling	ASUS ROG Ryujin III 360 with Noctua Industrial Fans
Memory	PAtriot Viper Elite RGB 96GB @ 6000MHz.
Video Card(s)	Asus ROG Strix GeForce RTX 3090 24GB OC EVA Edition
Storage	Addlink S95 M.2 PCIe GEN 4x4 2TB
Display(s)	Asus ROG SWIFT OLED PG42UQ
Case	Thermaltake Core P3 TG
Audio Device(s)	Realtek on board > Sony Receiver > Cerwin Vegas
Power Supply	be quiet DARK POWER PRO 12 1500W
Mouse	ROG STRIX Impact Electro Punk
Keyboard	ROG STRIX Scope TKL Electro Punk
Software	Windows 11

System Name	Compy 386
Processor	7800X3D
Motherboard	Asus
Cooling	Air for now.....
Memory	64 GB DDR5 6400Mhz
Video Card(s)	7900XTX 310 Merc
Storage	Samsung 990 2TB, 2 SP 2TB SSDs, 24TB Enterprise drives
Display(s)	55" Samsung 4K HDR
Audio Device(s)	ATI HDMI
Mouse	Logitech MX518
Keyboard	Razer
Software	A lot.
Benchmark Scores	Its fast. Enough.

System Name	WS#1337
Processor	Ryzen 7 5700X3D
Motherboard	ASUS X570-PLUS TUF Gaming
Cooling	Xigmatek Scylla 240mm AIO
Memory	4x8GB Samsung DDR4 ECC UDIMM
Video Card(s)	MSI RTX 3070 Gaming X Trio
Storage	ADATA Legend 2TB + ADATA SX8200 Pro 1TB
Display(s)	Samsung U24E590D (4K/UHD)
Case	ghetto CM Cosmos RC-1000
Audio Device(s)	ALC1220
Power Supply	SeaSonic SSR-550FX (80+ GOLD)
Mouse	Logitech G603
Keyboard	Modecom Volcano Blade (Kailh choc LP)
VR HMD	Google dreamview headset(aka fancy cardboard)
Software	Windows 11, Ubuntu 24.04 LTS

System Name	PCGOD
Processor	AMD FX 8350@ 5.0GHz
Motherboard	Asus TUF 990FX Sabertooth R2 2901 Bios
Cooling	Scythe Ashura, 2×BitFenix 230mm Spectre Pro LED (Blue,Green), 2x BitFenix 140mm Spectre Pro LED
Memory	16 GB Gskill Ripjaws X 2133 (2400 OC, 10-10-12-20-20, 1T, 1.65V)
Video Card(s)	AMD Radeon 290 Sapphire Vapor-X
Storage	Samsung 840 Pro 256GB, WD Velociraptor 1TB
Display(s)	NEC Multisync LCD 1700V (Display Port Adapter)
Case	AeroCool Xpredator Evil Blue Edition
Audio Device(s)	Creative Labs Sound Blaster ZxR
Power Supply	Seasonic 1250 XM2 Series (XP3)
Mouse	Roccat Kone XTD
Keyboard	Roccat Ryos MK Pro
Software	Windows 7 Pro 64

System Name	Pioneer
Processor	Ryzen R9 9950X
Motherboard	GIGABYTE Aorus Elite X670 AX
Cooling	Noctua NH-D15 + A whole lotta Sunon and Corsair Maglev blower fans...
Memory	64GB (4x 16GB) G.Skill Flare X5 @ DDR5-6000 CL30
Video Card(s)	XFX RX 7900 XTX Speedster Merc 310
Storage	Intel 905p Optane 960GB boot, +2x Crucial P5 Plus 2TB PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSDs
Display(s)	55" LG 55" B9 OLED 4K Display
Case	Thermaltake Core X31
Audio Device(s)	TOSLINK->Schiit Modi MB->Asgard 2 DAC Amp->AKG Pro K712 Headphones or HDMI->B9 OLED
Power Supply	FSP Hydro Ti Pro 850W
Mouse	Logitech G305 Lightspeed Wireless
Keyboard	WASD Code v3 with Cherry Green keyswitches + PBT DS keycaps
Software	Gentoo Linux x64 / Windows 11 Enterprise IoT 2024

Inside the PSU!

where the hell are my stars

where the hell are my stars

Dedicated TPU Cruncher & Folder

where the hell are my stars

Dedicated TPU Cruncher & Folder

not-so supermod

Dedicated TPU Cruncher & Folder

where the hell are my stars

Dedicated TPU Cruncher & Folder

Dedicated TPU Cruncher & Folder

Moderator

Dedicated TPU Cruncher & Folder

Dedicated TPU Cruncher & Folder

The Exiled Airman

Dedicated TPU Cruncher & Folder

Moderator