7th Gen Core "Kaby Lake" Won't Work on 300-series Chipset Motherboards

[bug]

No it's not insanity, it's called a double standard. The things is the way you are talking right now means you are using an Intel CPU other brand GPU, most likely an Nvidia GPU. So if you were to dump Intel and go AMD nothing would change in this aspect but you want to be all irrational about it and claim CPU/GPU have to be both from the same camp when it comes to AMD. Pardon, but people are just pointing out that you aren't making any sense.

It makes sense, he's free to buy whatever he wants. I was just pointing out he's limiting his options for no apparent reason.

 

[Totally]

I know but how can no apparent reason make sense?

 

[StrayKAT]

No it's not insanity, it's called a double standard. The things is the way you are talking right now means you are using an Intel CPU other brand GPU, most likely an Nvidia GPU. So if you were to dump Intel and go AMD nothing would change in this aspect but you want to be all irrational about it and claim CPU/GPU have to be both from the same camp when it comes to AMD. Pardon, but people are just pointing out that you aren't making any sense.

I said already that it has nothing to do with Intel. This is about me waiting to make a more complete AMD machine. I'm not going to do it piecemeal. And I'm not in any particular hurry either. It'd be nice if I could do it now, but I already have two PCs.

If this isn't insanity, then it's just beyond my comprehension. Even if I was being irrational, who the hell cares? It's not anyone's business to keep track of my purchases.

 

[Totally]

I said already that it has nothing to do with Intel. This is about me waiting to make a more complete AMD machine. I'm not going to do it piecemeal. And I'm not in any particular hurry either. It'd be nice if I could do it now, but I already have two PCs.

If this isn't insanity, then it's just beyond my comprehension. Even if I was being irrational, who the hell cares? It's not anyone's business to keep track of my purchases.

I don't care about intel either, it's the logic. Like packing a pair of fruit for lunch, but anything goes orange/banana...whatev. pear/pineapple...meh. what about apples? Screw apples unless it's two apples. I guess, I'm just just crazy.

 

[StrayKAT]

I don't care about intel either, it's the logic. Like packing a pair of fruit for lunch, but anything goes orange/banana...whatev. pear/pineapple...meh. what about apples? Screw apples unless it's two apples. I guess, I'm just just crazy.

Honestly, I think I would have been ignored if I hadn't said AMD needs to get their crap together (which is true). I think that's what this may be about. Because there's plenty of people who like buying AMD cards and cpus together. What I said isn't out of the ordinary. It's the whole "ecosystem" thing.

I also have a spare freesync monitor, so it'd be nice to use an AMD card with it.

 

[Totally]

That totally went over my head, I don't fuss over shit that is true. Put it this way, you'd go with an AMD CPU if they didn't make graphics cards.

fix'd

 

[StrayKAT]

That totally went over my head, I don't fuss over shit that is true. Put it this way, you'd totally with an AMD CPU if they didn't make graphics cards.

Did you miss a word there? I'd "totally" ____ with an AMD CPU?

Not sure why anything went over your head. I even said ecosystem.. that's one word. It's no different than me liking matching memory sticks with a Corsair case. Or having a Fender guitar and amp.

 

[Prima.Vera]

Say Intel, then flush the toilet...

 

[john_]

I'm not going to migrate to AMD unless they get their graphic division's crap together. Migration for me would be an all or nothing thing, I guess.

And after they get their graphics division's crap together, you will not migrating to AMD platform because their RAM and SSD lines of products are crap.
Got it.

lol... I'm just a guy with a computer. I'm not a sheep.

Considering the reason you gave for not going AMD, well......hmmmm.....how should I put it?.....

...nevermind...

 

[Eric3988]

Gotta love the power of market share gives Intel to make non consumer friendly moves like this.

 

[Static~Charge]

I also have a spare freesync monitor, so it'd be nice to use an AMD card with it.

Now that actually makes sense.

 

[HTC]

Fugger @ XS said this about the issue in the OP: best not try it, i guess!

That said, Intel is just creating confusion where there should be none: just add a "dummy pin" and call it socket LGA1152, thereby avoiding any and all problems with compatibility!

 

[bug]

Fugger @ XS said this about the issue in the OP: best not try it, i guess!

That said, Intel is just creating confusion where there should be none: just add a "dummy pin" and call it socket LGA1152, thereby avoiding any and all problems with compatibility!

Just imagine someone less tech savvy that somehow manages to find out they need a socket 1151 CPU to go with their motherboard. They go into the local store ask for an Intel socket 1151 CPU. And then the question hits: which socket 1151?
100% agree on the unnecessary confusion. Even if I'm willing to give Intel the benefit of the doubt and assume they stuck with 1151 truly believing they could make the new CPUs work on the old mobos and that didn't pan out in the end (not saying that's waht happened, just imagining a best case scenario for Intel), having two socket 1151 out at the same time is just not smart.

 

[Rauelius]

Way to give AMD my business.

Here I was thinking...CoffeeLake's not gonna work on my Z170 board, well, I can just get a Z370, stick with my 6700k and upgrade to an 8700k in the future. But, no, it has to be arbitrarily incompatible. At least AMD plans to support AM4 till at least 2020.

So, I can get a Ryzen 5 1600x, then upgrade to a Ryzen 7 3700x when Zen+ comes out, then upgrade again to a Ryzen 7 5800x when the Zen2 comes out. All on the same x370 board I would buy today. With Intel, it seems, any plan or thought for upgradability is thrown out the window.

I, honestly, would be SHOCKED if IceLake would work on a Z370, I'll bet that the IceLake i7 9700k will only work on a Z470 board, especially if the rumors are true on it being an 8-Core/16-Thread chip.

 

[StrayKAT]

And after they get their graphics division's crap together, you will not migrating to AMD platform because their RAM and SSD lines of products are crap.
Got it.

Considering the reason you gave for not going AMD, well......hmmmm.....how should I put it?.....

View attachment 92220

...nevermind...

That I'm waiting for better availability?

*gasp* I'm such a sheep! Insult me with geeky TV show memes, please.

Maybe if I was a desperate for a computer, I'd buy whatever I can. But I'm not.


Like I said, the real reason you guys are fixated on me is because I said they need to get their crap together. Your fans who can't take any kind of criticism and are attacking me out of spite, at this point.

I'm too old for this, in any case. It's embarrassing to even be dragged into such an argument.

 

[dj-electric]

I can neither confirm or deny the title of this article. Well... i can kinda confirm it actually.
I know, it sucks

 

[Psinet]

So intelligent that you decided, for some reason, that intel WOULDNT change sockets after 2 CPUs, like they have been doing since 2009?

You also thought that coffee lake would be such a major improvement, unlike ivy bridge, haswell, broadwell, skylake, and kaby lake, that you bought a tin-plated pentium to go with this $1500 machine rather then just buying the good chip now

And, despite thinking AMD's newest platform is great, you bought an intel platform anyway, then complain when intel bends you over the barrel?

Yeah, good job there bud. Intel doesn't give 2 #$%$s! because consumers like you will blindly buy their stuff.

1. I am glad you experience so much glee from trying to put someone down, but even better would be if you chose not to be such a jerk.
   
2. Clock-for-clock/core-for-core, Coffee Lake will be up to 30% faster than Ivy Bridge for up to 15% less power. On top of that are all the platform improvements - extra cores, faster clock speeds, DDR4, M.2 NVMe, PCIE 3.0, Thunderbolt 3.0, Optane, USB 3.1 Gen 2 etc. I have all of these except the extra cores.
3. Having researched enough to know that the new chip WAS on an 1151 socket and was otherwise compatible - as stated in many respected tech publications - it was a good bet the platform would accept at least some of the Coffee Lake CPU's. It was later shown the new CPU's DO work on z270 (as demonstrated elsewhere) and even low-end Kaby Lakes could perform most of the BIOS boot quite some time ago - even with old and beta microcode and BIOS. I am sure plenty of people will be angry enough to try. As it stands, if it doesn't happen, then I will still have an awesome microPC and I will just grab a cheap, used 7700k.
4. On top of this hardware compatibility, coinciding with AMD's new release was very good reason to think Intel might try something like that to maintain loyalty.
5. Obviously I was updating ANYWAY. The specific state of the CPU market does not define whether I upgrade my entire PC - available funds, timing and a multi-component upgrade generally must come at the same time.
   
6. AMD's platform was unreleased when I made the purchases, genius. Also, the release was then fraught with updates and uncertainties. I needed a machine that would work in a production environment without the chance something kept it unworkable - even for a few days.
7. Don't be suck a jerk. I'll be sure to make a post referencing you if I ever happen to get one working.
   
   Edit: What are the baiting/trolling/flaming rules here, anyway?

 

[The Von Matrices]

We would be hearing the exact same complaints if there was a new socket incompatible with older processors. Every 2 generations, Intel makes the socket electrically incompatible with older CPU; that's nothing new. This time, they just aren't changing the number of pins, but that hardly makes a difference.

The number of pins on a socket has nothing to do with electrical compatibility. It's expensive to create a new socket just to have one more or less pin. I can't imagine how much money is saved by the motherboard makers and Intel by only having to stock one type of socket as opposed to having to convert production processes to use another. AMD did the same thing by using the same socket for Threadripper and EPYC.

And having chipsets that don't support older CPUs despite having the same socket is nothing new. Many LGA775 Core 2 motherboards did not support older Pentium 4s in the same socket. Even 15 years ago, socket 478 boards dropped support for earlier FSB400 CPUs despite using the same socket.

 

[xenocide]

Just imagine someone less tech savvy that somehow manages to find out they need a socket 1151 CPU to go with their motherboard. They go into the local store ask for an Intel socket 1151 CPU. And then the question hits: which socket 1151?
100% agree on the unnecessary confusion. Even if I'm willing to give Intel the benefit of the doubt and assume they stuck with 1151 truly believing they could make the new CPUs work on the old mobos and that didn't pan out in the end (not saying that's waht happened, just imagining a best case scenario for Intel), having two socket 1151 out at the same time is just not smart.

Yes. Because so many non-tech savvy people just casually replace their motherboards...

The lengths people go to be outraged by these kinds of business decisions are pretty funny...

 

[john_]

Like I said, the real reason you guys are fixated on me is because I said they need to get their crap together. Your fans who can't take any kind of criticism and are attacking me out of spite, at this point.

No, it's not that.

Look, when you try to pass double standards as objectivity, it's almost certain there will be a reaction. It's also healthy. When you are OK with every little marketing trick from Intel, OK with every new little incompatibility they will introduce into their platforms, so they can be certain that their customers will be forced to replace their whole cpu plus motherboard configuration, and on the other hand you don't buy AMD processors because, in this case, they don't produce the best graphics cards, a totally different part of PC hardware, that's the definition of "double standards". That's the definition of "I don't care what Intel will force on me, because I will always find an excuse to NOT go to AMD". Don't expect people to come out and embrace this logic. This logic is the foundation of monopolies. You could come out and say "I only buy Intel because I am used to it, or feel better with Intel hardware in my PC, or because I don't trust/want AMD hardware" and the reaction, if any, will be much less.

 

[StrayKAT]

No, it's not that.

Look, when you try to pass double standards as objectivity, it's almost certain there will be a reaction. It's also healthy. When you are OK with every little marketing trick from Intel, OK with every new little incompatibility they will introduce into their platforms, so they can be certain that their customers will be forced to replace their whole cpu plus motherboard configuration, and on the other hand you don't buy AMD processors because, in this case, they don't produce the best graphics cards, a totally different part of PC hardware, that's the definition of "double standards". That's the definition of "I don't care what Intel will force on me, because I will always find an excuse to NOT go to AMD". Don't expect people to come out and embrace this logic. This logic is the foundation of monopolies. You could come out and say "I only buy Intel because I am used to it, or feel better with Intel hardware in my PC, or because I don't trust/want AMD hardware" and the reaction, if any, will be much less.

Since when was even objectivity relevant here? You project that standard on to me, when I never claimed it or cared in the first place. I just said I'd like to wait to get both parts. It has nothing to do with objectivity or standards...or whatever egghead "polemical" bullshit you care about. I just want an "AMD centric machine" for kicks.

I'd understand if I badmouthed AMD and said their products sucked, but you're attacking a potential customer.. and creepy at this point. Leave me alone.

 

[john_]

We would be hearing the exact same complaints if there was a new socket incompatible with older processors. Every 2 generations, Intel makes the socket electrically incompatible with older CPU; that's nothing new. This time, they just aren't changing the number of pins, but that hardly makes a difference.

The number of pins on a socket has nothing to do with electrical compatibility. It's expensive to create a new socket just to have one more or less pin. I can't imagine how much money is saved by the motherboard makers and Intel by only having to stock one type of socket as opposed to having to convert production processes to use another. AMD did the same thing by using the same socket for Threadripper and EPYC.

And having chipsets that don't support older CPUs despite having the same socket is nothing new. Many LGA775 Core 2 motherboards did not support older Pentium 4s in the same socket. Even 15 years ago, socket 478 boards dropped support for earlier FSB400 CPUs despite using the same socket.

This time they are not waiting for two generations. Kabylake incompatible with Coffee Lake 6 core platform, Coffee Lake incompatible with Coffee/Ice/Cannon/Whatever 8 core platform. Every next generation incompatible with the previous one. And I don't think adding or replacing a pin is such a problem. The problem here is probably the fact that pins are on the motherboard, not on the processors. If pins where on the processor, you wouldn't be able to put a processor with one more extra pin for example, in the old socket, but on LGA, more or less pins on the socket wouldn't stop you from putting that incompatible processor there. Or that's what I assume, never had an LGA processor. So, probably Intel thought that there wasn't really anything they could do there, other than just make the processors incompatible in the BIOS. The wrong 1151 will not burn the CPU or the motherboard, it will just not boot, so, inconvenience for the customer, but no harm done on the hardware.

Since when was even objectivity relevant here? You project that standard on to me, when I never claimed it or cared in the first place. I just said I'd like to wait to get both parts. It has nothing to do with objectivity or standards... but just having an "AMD centric machine" for kicks.

I'd understand if I badmouthed AMD and said their products sucked, but you're attacking a potential customer.. and creepy at this point.

Well, your argument of not using an AMD processor basically was that their GPUs sucked...

Leave me alone.

Not quoting you again in this thread.

 

[CandymanGR]

This time they are not waiting for two generations. Kabylake incompatible with Coffee Lake 6 core platform, Coffee Lake incompatible with Coffee/Ice/Cannon/Whatever 8 core platform. Every next generation incompatible with the previous one. And I don't think adding or replacing a pin is such a problem. The problem here is probably the fact that pins are on the motherboard, not on the processors. If pins where on the processor, you wouldn't be able to put a processor with one more extra pin for example, in the old socket, but on LGA, more or less pins on the socket wouldn't stop you from putting that incompatible processor there. Or that's what I assume, never had an LGA processor. So, probably Intel thought that there wasn't really anything they could do there, other than just make the processors incompatible in the BIOS. The wrong 1151 will not burn the CPU or the motherboard, it will just not boot, so, inconvenience for the customer, but no harm done on the hardware.

Well, your argument of not using an AMD processor basically was that their GPUs sucked...

Not quoting you again in this thread.

I need to underline that post.
Well said.

 

[Psinet]

We would be hearing the exact same complaints if there was a new socket incompatible with older processors. Every 2 generations, Intel makes the socket electrically incompatible with older CPU; that's nothing new. This time, they just aren't changing the number of pins, but that hardly makes a difference.

The number of pins on a socket has nothing to do with electrical compatibility. It's expensive to create a new socket just to have one more or less pin. I can't imagine how much money is saved by the motherboard makers and Intel by only having to stock one type of socket as opposed to having to convert production processes to use another. AMD did the same thing by using the same socket for Threadripper and EPYC.

And having chipsets that don't support older CPUs despite having the same socket is nothing new. Many LGA775 Core 2 motherboards did not support older Pentium 4s in the same socket. Even 15 years ago, socket 478 boards dropped support for earlier FSB400 CPUs despite using the same socket.

All these people on here who think this is fine and normal are sucked in by Intel propoganda. Coffee Lake DOES work on z270 perfectly - so long as you can find a way to stop Intel stopping you.

THIS HAS NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE.

They are releasing compatible CPU's and making them incompatible via software purely for reasons of profiteering.

Unprecedented. And where is that dude who said I was a moron for thinking it would work - THEY DO WORK.
http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/in...rt-kaby-lake-but-intel-will-not-allow-it.html

 

[londiste]

Failing on GPU check sounds like they had to change something to make UHD/4K output work properly. This is the new feature on the UHD Graphics bits.