Throttlestop overclocking Desktop PCs

[m&m's]

I found my W3680 recently on EBay for $55 US. It was from a Canadian seller so the price was a little lower than the typical EBay price.

You got it for $55 USD shipped?

 

[unclewebb]

An extra $7.89 U.S. for shipping. It was money well spent.

My 5 GHz W3670 was a hair cheaper and was free shipping from China.



He still has one left. If you see a seller with 5 or 10 of these, don't be afraid to make a low ball offer.

I am having a lot of fun overclocking some old X58 hardware. When I get bored, I will be able to sell this stuff for what I paid for it, maybe more.

 

[Retrorockit]

I have a question. TS takes control of voltage with Core2Extreme LGA775 CPUs even with a locked BIOS. It's definitely a big advantage.
When you say the Dell T3500 BIOS doesn't allow Voltage control I'm not sure specifically what you mean.
I always assume the Dell locked BIOS doesn't allow this. The TDP, and TDC setting in the X58 unlocked CPU are what's confusing me. I don't expect direct control of Voltage there either.
My question is- When you raise the TDP/TDC say to 200W, does it raise the Voltage to support the OC on the unlocked Xeons as long as temperature is within limits? This is what I would hope for. Or is the BIOS locked at the default Voltage under all conditions? I wonder if the actual i7-990X would be different in this regard. There is a board level hardmod to get around this if necessary. But there goes quick and easy. I was hoping for the typical 4.4GHz overclock on these CPUs. In LGA775 TS provided all you needed for a high end result.
One of the nice things about TS overclocking is that you don't need to master a bunch of RAM speed and voltage settings to support the faster BCLK. At OCN X58 club the stuff you need to know to OC one of these makes my head spin.

 

[unclewebb]

Software voltage control was part of the Core 2 design. When Intel released the first generation Core i, simple voltage control was removed. I think it was not until the 4th Gen Haswell that voltage control returned as part of their Fully Integrated Voltage Regulator (FIVR).

When you go into the bios on a Dell T3500, there is no option available to increase the voltage going to the CPU. The EVGA Classified3 X58 board has a ridiculous number of voltage control options so you can finely adjust the voltage going to every part of the CPU. Luckily you can leave most of these voltage settings on AUTO and still get great results.

When you raise the TDP/TDC say to 200W, does it raise the Voltage to support the OC on the unlocked Xeons as long as temperature is within limits?

Adjusting TDP or TDC does not have any effect on voltage. These 2 values determine when the CPU will start to throttle (reduce) the amount of turbo boost being used. TDP controls power in Watts and TDC controls the amount of current that can flow through the CPU in amps. The 4th Gen and newer CPUs calculate an estimated power consumption value internally and then this info is used to control how much turbo boost the CPU is allowed to use. When power consumption exceeds the set TDP value, the CPU will slow down just enough to keep the calculated TDP under this limit. I will post some pics later of my overclocked W3680 to show what happens to the MHz when it starts hitting the default 130W TDP value. These power values can be increased on the unlocked W3680 and W3690.

For the 1st Gen Core i, there is no publicly documented way to report power consumption. This data is generated internally within the CPU but no way to know exactly what it is. It is more of a guessing game. If you set the TDP to 130W and the CPU is not reaching full speed then it must be throttling. If you increase the TDP and it starts running faster, then you know it must have been hitting the TDP limit. Some of the Asus X58 boards were running into throttling problems because one of these limits was not set high enough for extreme overclockers. Asus ended up releasing some special bios versions under the table to keep the overclockers happy but they never offered these on their website.

Or is the BIOS locked at the default Voltage under all conditions?

CPUs use a voltage look up table. The CPU determines what speed / load / temperature it is running at and then asks the motherboard to give it the appropriate amount of voltage so it can run stable. Intel CPUs always ask for a little extra voltage so the CPU will continue to run stable well after the warranty is over. This extra voltage allows the CPU to run stable even when it is overclocked a little. On the 6 core Xeon W3600 series, the amount of voltage needed really starts to go up significantly when you go beyond 4 GHz. On a board with no voltage control, the built in VID voltage table only seems to have values good enough to run stable at 4 GHz and not much beyond. The Intel specs list the VID Voltage range for all of these processors as 0.800V - 1.375V. I think my Xeon W3670 needs approximately 1.375V to run stable at 4 GHz. Without adjustable voltage, that is approximately where you will end up.

There is no real difference between the Xeon W series or the Core i7-990X Extreme. It is all luck of the draw. Maybe a CPU with a high VID table will give the CPU a little more voltage when used in a Dell T3500 and this will allow slightly more overclocking or maybe a CPU with a low VID voltage table will allow a user to overclock more because it is a great overclocker without needing a lot of voltage. That might be perfect for a board that does not offer voltage adjustment. The Xeon W3680 does just fine on a voltage locked or voltage unlocked board. Definitely not worth paying 2 or 3 times as much to get an Extreme Core i7.

I have seen a hard mod before and some great results when feeding a 1st Gen Core i7-920XM Extreme mobile CPU some extra voltage. I think it was svl7 on Tech Inferno that did this. Unfortunately every time I try to go to their website, my antivirus software warns me about a Miner virus so I would not recommend going there.

 

[dorsetknob]

every time I try to go to their website, my antivirus software warns me about a Miner virus so I would not recommend going there.

any people will appreciate the ^^^^^ above warning

 

[Retrorockit]

I have the hard mod in a PM at OCN. I hope that the VRM controller chip is still on the MB and not moved inside the CPU. Basically it spoofs the voltage monitoring leg of the VRM chip with a variable resistance to make it think the Voltage is low. You need to add a Voltage readout also to detect the new value. I guess without overvolting my cooling mods won't help much. Which pin to spoof varies from chip to chip. I'll see what I can find out. Maybe my W3690 will be binned a little higher, who knows.

" I have seen a hard mod before and some great results when feeding a 1st Gen Core i7-920XM Extreme mobile CPU some extra voltage. I think it was svl7 on Tech Inferno that did this. Unfortunately every time I try to go to their website, my antivirus software warns me about a Miner virus so I would not recommend going there."

Maybe I'll boot up my Linux Live DVD, unplug my HDD and risk it. 100% power down after to clear out the RAM. I'll ask my friend at OCN first. Thanks for the heads up though.

 

[unclewebb]

Here is an example of how the TDP setting controls the CPU speed. I used Prime95 to fully load the W3680 and for this test I had the maximum multiplier set to 30 so the maximum speed was approximately 4000 MHz.



In the upper left corner, the TDP is set to 130 Watts so the CPU rapidly adjusts the multiplier hundreds of times per second to keep under this limit. ThrottleStop shows the multiplier averaging 26.19. With the TDP bumped up to 160 Watts, the multiplier is allowed to increase to 28.20. Getting better. Bottom left corner has the TDP up to 190 Watts and now there is just a slight hint of throttling. An average multiplier of 29.90 is equivalent to the multi spending 90% of its time at 30 and 10% of its time at 29. Not bad. To get the full 30 multiplier across all 12 threads I had to bump the TDP up one more time to 200 Watts. Now all threads are reporting the full 30.00 multiplier and I am at a legit 4000 MHz. More power going through the CPU and more MHz equals more heat. The higher performance is confirmed by the higher core temperatures.

I think you previously mentioned the UserBenchmark so I bumped the multi in my T3500 - W3680 up to 32 for a balls to the wall run at 4266 MHz. The UserBenchmark is mostly a light duty bench for a hyper threaded 6 core CPU so it had no problem completing it. The UserBenchmark seems to like my W3680.

http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/7540614

 

[Retrorockit]

Userbenchmark.com isn't much of a stress test. But it's a great resource to see if a system supports a CPU, or GPU (or not). Also you can evaluate the performance gains of various mods. You have to click on individual builds to detect the overclocks. When I get a question at Tomshardware about a Dell mod I always go there to see what's already been done. If that had a GTX1080Ti it would be at the top of the chart! 96% ranking for that CPU. Now that's what I'm talking about! I notice it only shows the base clock speed. The LGA 775s show the TS OC. T3400 @ 4.15 GHz QX9650.
http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/3530803

I think you previously mentioned the UserBenchmark so I bumped the multi in my T3500 - W3680 up to 32 for a balls to the wall run at 4266 MHz. The UserBenchmark is mostly a light duty bench for a hyper threaded 6 core CPU so it had no problem completing it. The UserBenchmark seems to like my W3680.

If you left the OC @ 4.266Ghz and then ran Prime 95 would it crash, drop threads, or just throttle back the OC?

There is a bigger cooler U402F from the T7500. if you move the HDD to the FDD bay I've heard it fits.
The bigger fan assy. from the Precision 490 (150x50mm/ 92mm) kinda "fits". It uses the same slot in the case to install, if you trim the plastic housing down even with the top of the fan, the case cover will close. The bottom mtg. screw is moved. 256CFM. It's very quiet.
http://www.globalcomputerparts.net/us/proddetail.php?prod=JD850
I have a Thermalright Macho 120 heatsink mounted in mine. I need to figure out where to drill holes for the 10 heatpipes so I can close the cover. The original CPU cooler is now on the chipset.
Be warned. I have a box full of aftermarket CPU mounting brackets. I found some parts that work, but I have no idea what cooler(s) they came with.

Here is a seller for the unlocked 4 core W5580. $19
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Xeon...366-CPU-Processor-km-/401490804236?rmvSB=true

 

[Retrorockit]

I found a thread at OCN about overclocking unlocked Xeons newer than X58. It's 160 pages long, and as usual contains mostly FSB, and aftermarket MB overclocking. But unlocked E5 Xeons are discussed. Also some BIOS mods and technical info about how they work. So if X58 is too old for you then this might be a good place to start. But they do some comparisons of X58 vs newer platforms and it doesn't come off all that bad usually.
http://www.overclock.net/forum/8-in...-hacking-overclocking-x79-x99-beyond-x58.html

 

[m&m's]

I received my T3500 a couple of days ago.

Swapped the PSU because the DELL stock PSU only has one 6pin, changed the thermal paste, added two 70mm fans @5v, one in front of the cooler and the other one on the northbridge (perfect fit the nortbridge cooler seems to be exactly 70mm wide) which was getting hot but I heard it's kind of normal for a LGA1366 motherboard.

Looked around the BIOS and didn't find any options to change the front fans speed, they're silent but they don't ramp fast enough for my taste when the CPU gets to 75+C. Also most of the hot air is getting out from the PSU so I added a 120mm fan at the rear. Max CPU temperature I've got has been 71C since I've added the fans (would get to 78-79C before) under gaming load (not prime95 or similar).

My GTX 760 gets hotter by 6-7C in the T3500 case then it used to in my Xigmatek Midgard-W.

I have 6x2GB of 1333MHz memory but it runs @1066MHz and I have no options in the BIOS. The T3500 is supposed to support up to 1333MHz, is it because my W3550 only "officially" supports 1066MHz? I'll need something like a W3680 for my RAM to run @1333MHz?

Overall I'm satisfied, I've got a decent FPS increase in CPU limited games which was to be expected considering I still had a Phenom II X4 965.

 

[Retrorockit]

W3680,W3690 are the 6C /12T multiplier unlocked 1333 RAM chips. Some people feel that the 6 cores are too expensive and usually of no advantage for gaming. But the 32 nm architecture makes them efficient, and they overclock well. There are 45nm 4C/8T options that are unlocked also. The W3570, and W3580, and their dual CPU variants the W5580, and W55590. All support 1333 RAM. The memory controller is on the CPU so you're correct that that's where the limitation comes in. But they're all 3 channel memory so it's not as big an issue as it would be otherwise, and equal to what the Extreme series equivalents offered. Overclocking the 4 cores is unexplored so far on the T3500 and they can be had for around $20.
This CPUZ page confirms both unlocked multiplier, and dual CPU support of the W5580.
http://valid.x86.fr/top-cpu/496e746...0202020202020573535383020204020332e323047487a

 

[m&m's]

I know all of this already... Except, one thing you mentioned is false:

The memory controller is on the CPU so you're correct that that's where the limitation comes in.

Yes the memory controller is on the CPU, but it's not what limits RAM speed in this case. It's the motherboard. The memory controller on the W3550 should have no issues with 1333MHz... Intel officially supports up to DDR4-2666MHz for it's i7-8700K but people are having no issues with 4000MHz+ RAM kits...
But Dell probably locked the BIOS to the max RAM speed specified by Intel which is a shame.

 

[Retrorockit]

I think you're referring to the memory speeds people get on aftermarket MB when they adjust the FSB higher, and the memory speed goes up also. So in that regard I guess it is the MB. But in this computer it's the CPU that limits RAM speed. Another CPU would give DDR3-1333 speed. The method of overclocking being discussed here changes multiplier, and Voltage, or in some cases current, but leaves the FSB and memory timing as is. So for the purpose of this discussion what I said was true. Whether it's good or bad is up to you. I see long winded discussions about memory Voltage, and timings of all sorts in other overclocking forums. The people who work these things out are quite proud of their knowledge and hard won experience. But it could also be considered an unnecessary PITA.
Since you already know all of this why are you running a locked CPU that supports low memory speed, on a locked BIOS motherboard, and then complaining about it? For $20 you could solve the problem. It seems you've missed the whole point of this thread. Overclocking unlocked CPUs on locked BIOS computers. Memory speed isn't really part of the equation. The unlocked LGA 1366 Xeons support DDR3-1333. There's not much more to it.

The main reason I started this thread is because I found it impossible to discuss Throttlestop overclocking in other forums due to the constant exchange of QPI link, and RAM timing and assorted Voltages needed to overclock using aftermarket MB that were supposedly designed for this.

TS overclocking is very simple. Get an unlocked CPU running. Upgrade your cooling. Install Throttlestop. Then adjust your power, and multiplier until you run out of cooling, power, or speed.

Every thing else here is just to point out unlocked CPUs, or post results achieved. Or help understand Intel's changing methods and terminology to achieve this. The BIOS, and RAM timings can all be ignored. That's actually the elegance of it.

I just had some reports from a reliable source of AMD RX460, and RX480 being able to run in a T3500 with BIOS A17. So it seems the GCN3 curse has been lifted for these machines.
No idea if AMD fixed the cards, or if Dell fixed their BIOS. I don't know if older AMD R9-3xx series will work in the T3500, or if these cards will work in older Dells.

 

[m&m's]

I think you're referring to the memory speeds people get on aftermarket MB when they adjust the FSB higher, and the memory speed goes up also. So in that regard I guess it is the MB. But in this computer it's the CPU that limits RAM speed. Another CPU would give DDR3-1333 speed. The method of overclocking being discussed here changes multiplier, and Voltage, or in some cases current, but leaves the FSB and memory timing as is. So for the purpose of this discussion what I said was true. Whether it's good or bad is up to you. I see long winded discussions about memory Voltage, and timings of all sorts in other overclocking forums. The people who work these things out are quite proud of their knowledge and hard won experience. But it could also be considered an unnecessary PITA. Since you already know all of this why are you running a locked CPU that supports low memory speed, on a locked BIOS motherboard, and then complaining about it? For $20 you could solve the problem. It seems you've missed the whole point of this thread. Overclocking unlocked CPUs on locked BIOS computers. Memory speed isn't really part of the equation.

I am not referring to any FSB OC or OC at all for that matter. I'm referring to the JEDEC and XMP profiles built-in the RAM sticks. The T3500 isn't limited by the memory controller and never will. It's the motherboard which doesn't seem to be willing to read any JEDEC profiles higher than the RAM speed specified by Intel for a given CPU. In the W3550 case, it's 1066MHz but again, it's motherboard related. The memory controller on the W3550 can very well work with 1333MHz RAM sticks or higher. This is what I tried to explain to you because your statement was and still is false. The memory controller has nothing to do with it. Why am I running a W3550? Because I got it for cheap with the T3500 and whether I have a locked or unlocked CPU doesn't matter since memory controllers aren't locked. It's the motherboard which "locks" them.

The main reason I started this thread is because I found it impossible to discuss Throttlestop overclocking in other forums due to the constant exchange of QPI link, and RAM timing and assorted Voltages needed to overclock using aftermarket MB that were supposedly designed for this.

TS overclocking is very simple. Get an unlocked CPU running. Upgrade your cooling. Install Throttlestop. Then adjust your power, and multiplier until you run out of cooling, power, or speed.

Every thing else here is just to point out unlocked CPUs, or post results achieved. Or help understand Intel's changing methods and terminology to achieve this. The BIOS, and RAM timings can all be ignored. That's actually the elegance of it.

And I have no issues with the goal of your thread, I simply gave an update about the T3500 I mentioned I bought a week or so ago and taught I would mention something I found out about the motherboard. I sure wasn't hoping it would support XMP profiles, but I taught it would have no issues with all JEDEC profiles which is not the case. Then I saw your reply with a false statement, so I taught "Hey I might as well tell him". I don't know why you got so defensive. It's a tech forum, not Facebook. If you say false stuff whether it's because you misunderstand something or because you have malicious intentions (which I don't think is the case) people will notice.

On another note, I look almost daily on eBay for W3680 CPUs. If I see one selling on the cheap, I might get it.

 

[unclewebb]

Yes the memory controller is on the CPU, but it's not what limits RAM speed in this case. It's the motherboard.

The W3550 is a locked CPU so the maximum CPU multiplier and the maximum memory multiplier are both locked by Intel within the CPU. It does not matter what motherboard you run it on. At the default 133 MHz BCLK speed the maximum memory speed is 1066 MHz. You can overclock the BCLK and this will increase the memory speed but there is no way to increase only the memory speed. Some motherboards like the EVGA Classified X58 board I tried have lots of options in the bios to change the memory speed but they do not actually work when the CPU is locked. The advantage of the W3680 / W3690 is that they both support 1333 memory.

An 8th Gen 8700K is an unlocked CPU so any comparison to one of those is not valid.

 

[Retrorockit]

The memory controller is on the CPU, not the MB. The memory speed, and also memory capacity vary with the CPU chosen. The i7-990X supports 24GB RAM @ 1066 speed. The W3690 supports 24GB @1333, The locked CPU X5690 supports 288GB @ 1333. Some people claim to run 48 GB on the Xeons that support 24GB.
For $20 you could have a faster unlocked W5580 CPU that supports 144GB of DDR3 1333 RAM.
Or you can complain about the motherboard, call me a liar, and argue with Intels spec. sheets. Maybe no one will notice. OOPS too late for that.

 

[unclewebb]

@Retrorockit - Are you 100% sure that the W5580 has an unlocked multiplier? The CPU-Z entry seems legit. Just surprised that more people didn't do some simple bump the multi overclocking. Might have to go buy one to confirm. I think I can spare $20 bucks. Maybe I will get a winner like this one.

http://valid.x86.fr/81teia

 

[m&m's]

At the default 133 MHz BCLK speed the maximum memory speed is 1066 MHz.

Then how did this guy on HWBot ended up with a FSB: DRAM ratio of 2:10? It should be locked at 2:8.
http://hwbot.org/submission/1068454_honkie_wprime___1024m_xeon_w3550_2min_32sec_703ms

It could be an engineering sample or a fake that didn't get cut or some kind of hard mod?

Also there are CPU-Z screenshots of i7 950s with ratios of 2:10 which are very similar to W3550s.

 

[Retrorockit]

As I said it's an FSB overclock on an aftermarket MB. There are endless complications to this. If that's what you want to do no one is stopping you. If you want to try it on an OEM motherboard go ahead. I'm aware of a couple hardmods to raise Voltage, and unlock FSB limits. Some times when you change fsb you can run into memory timing straps that are undocumented because they were never intended to be used. There are also softmods that let you edit the RAM modules themselves, and the chips on the MB. SETfsb allows hex editing of the PLL. RW Everything is another. I'm aware of these techniques. But have very little use for them myself. Also software doesn't always report the correct timing for some overclocks. I've had posts at Geekbench showing my CPU at base speed, but they had to raise the chart to show my score. Some TS overclocks register at userbenchmark.com other don't. Sometime an overclock will display one thing if you restart before the run or just apply the settings. Does CPUZ measure the RAM speed, or calculate it from settings it detected, that may have been changed. You seem to have an obsession with RAM speed. This thread is about how to simply and easily overclock unlocked CPUs on locked BIOS computers. Modification of RAM timings is quite beside the point. In fact not having to bother with it is the point.
If you need faster memory then go figure it out for yourself. I have absolutely no obligation to figure it out for you. Why don't you look for a RAM overclocking thread.
Here's the X58 Xeon thread at OCN. All they talk about is RAM timing, Voltage, QPI links. 1352 pages of it. Enjoy!
http://www.overclock.net/forum/8-intel-general/1489955-official-x58-xeon-club-1352.html

 

[unclewebb]

@m&m's - Thanks for the info. It is possible that the Intel docs are wrong and the W3550 supports DDR3-1333.

This article shows that you need an unlocked Extreme processor to take full advantage of higher speed memory.

https://techreport.com/review/15967/exploring-the-impact-of-memory-speed-on-core-i7-performance

Anyway, @Retrorockit is right. This stuff is interesting but off topic. If I ever buy an unlocked W5580 or W5590 and manage to overclock it in my T3500, I will post about it here.

 

[Retrorockit]

@Retrorockit - Are you 100% sure that the W5580 has an unlocked multiplier? The CPU-Z entry seems legit. Just surprised that more people didn't do some simple bump the multi overclocking. Might have to go buy one to confirm. I think I can spare $20 bucks. Maybe I will get a winner like this one.

http://valid.x86.fr/81teia

I came across the W3580/70s and while researching them came across a mention that the W5580, W5590 were unlocked also. Aside form the QX9775 LGA771 they're the only unlocked dual Proc. CPUs I ever heard of. I didn't know there were 2x CPUs LGA1366 except the X5000 series. I dug around until I found a multiplier overclock on one. I think people own them and just assume they're locked. All the 2x CPU overclocks were FSB mods on an aftermarket MB.

 

[Susquehannock]

Greetings. Just signed up. Retrorockit pointed me here from another forum.

Have been running RX 480 in this T3500 for well over a year without issues. Changed over to Win10 a few weeks ago and it was a breeze.

Ordering a W5590 right now and will report back how it over clocks with TS in this T3500.

 

[Retrorockit]

I was hoping you would sign on here. You seem to know as much about the T3500 as anyone. It's looking like the bang for the buck overclocking champ. Also with 12 threads , 48GB* RAM, 3 channel memory, and dual GPU support, it has potential for some more "serious" computing .

*unofficial X58 capacity not confirmed on T3500

 

[lexluthermiester]

Is there a link to version TS 8.60 somewhere?

 

[jboydgolfer]

Is there a link to version TS 8.60 somewhere?

If I recall correctly it's not released publicly. unclewebb alluded to that in another thread iirc