CTS-Labs Posts Ryzen Windows Credential Guard Bypass Proof-of-concept Video

R-T-B · Mar 22, 2018

RejZoR said:
How do you know they are "lax"? Processors aren't something you throw together in 6 hours.

No, but outsourcing to a company known to put blatant backdoors in the chipsets they make was pretty avoidable. Heck, the PSP itself is an outsorced arm piece. All of that points to a lack of true caring at AMD.

cadaveca · Mar 22, 2018

R-T-B said:
No, but outsourcing to a company known to put blatant backdoors in the chipsets they make was pretty avoidable. Heck, the PSP itself is an outsorced arm piece.

That's why the focus is on AMD; It's not that their products are faulty, really, it is that they didn't vet their partner's products that hey integrated into their platform properly.

It's an interesting topic, to me. Like, this very clearly shows how AMD does things, and how they do business. In some ways they are an IP company, but they don't actually fully have enough of their own designs to provide a complete solution; they have to rely on other companies to complete things for them. It's kind of an "open-source" approach to hardware design, which can lead to all sorts of weird issues due to lack of communication between the separate teams at separate offices at separate companies...

HTC · Mar 22, 2018

cadaveca said:
That's why the focus is on AMD; It's not that their products are faulty, really, it is that they didn't vet their partner's products that hey integrated into their platform properly.

It's an interesting topic, to me. Like, this very clearly shows how AMD does things, and how they do business. In some ways they are an IP company, but they don't actually fully have enough of their own designs to provide a complete solution; they have to rely on other companies to complete things for them. It's kind of an "open-source" approach to hardware design, which can lead to all sorts of weird issues due to lack of communication between the separate teams at separate offices at separate companies...

That seems a bit unfair since the same is true for Intel: they also outsource chipsets to ASMedia, don't they?

eidairaman1 · Mar 23, 2018

cadaveca said:
That's why the focus is on AMD; It's not that their products are faulty, really, it is that they didn't vet their partner's products that hey integrated into their platform properly.

It's an interesting topic, to me. Like, this very clearly shows how AMD does things, and how they do business. In some ways they are an IP company, but they don't actually fully have enough of their own designs to provide a complete solution; they have to rely on other companies to complete things for them. It's kind of an "open-source" approach to hardware design, which can lead to all sorts of weird issues due to lack of communication between the separate teams at separate offices at separate companies...

Sort of like yhe Super 7 days

R-T-B · Mar 23, 2018

HTC said:
That seems a bit unfair since the same is true for Intel: they also outsource chipsets to ASMedia, don't they?

No, they don't. Mobo manufacturerers use ASMedia chips to add suplemental USB ports, but Intel designs it's own chipset and has no relationship really with ASMedia.

AMD literally had ASMedia design their entire chipset.

eidairaman1 · Mar 23, 2018

R-T-B said:
No, they don't. Mobo manufacturerers use ASMedia chips to add suplemental USB ports, but Intel designs it's own chipset and has no relationship really with ASMedia.

AMD literally had ASMedia design their entire chipset.

Yup for Ryzen, hence some shortcomings, I think AMD may go back to inhouse chipsets after the 470...

R-T-B · Mar 23, 2018

eidairaman1 said:
Yup for Ryzen, hence some shortcomings, I think AMD may go back to inhouse chipsets after the 470...

Would be smart I think. Hopefully they can do a better job than ASMedia.

eidairaman1 · Mar 23, 2018

R-T-B said:
Would be smart I think. Hopefully they can do a better job than ASMedia.

Well the 990FX was robust for its time, then some boards were Gen3'd

Who knows it would be sweet to see a Roxen or Ryxen475 Chipset lol (made up name)

lexluthermiester · Mar 23, 2018

eidairaman1 said:
Sort of like the Super 7 days

Did you mean "Super Socket 7"?

eidairaman1 · Mar 23, 2018

lexluthermiester said:
Did you mean "Super Socket 7"?

Yes I do

ikeke · Mar 23, 2018

If every time someone discovered a flaw in software/hardware would result in publishing of papers that point to "complete lack of security in said organization" all over the clickbait internet then there would be a lot of these published every day.

(Fortunatly 99,99999% of these cases are handled by adults/professionals, issues are reported to respective organizations who start working on fixes and general public learns of them usually when patch is made available.)

There is no such thing as problem-free hardware or software. There are and always will be bugs in code/design. Humans are the weak link.

john_ · Mar 23, 2018

AMD also doesn't manufacture their own chips. I mean, Global Foundries could, somehow, install backdoors in CPUs, right?

I think people forget AMD's financials. Especially before Ryzen and miners. For years people expect from AMD to be equal to everything it is doing to Intel and Nvidia because they forget that AMD financially is much much more weak compared to the other two. In the past, when Nvidia wasn't even a 1Billion per quarter company, AMD could compete with them. Today Nvidia is making from GPUs more money than AMD is doing from every business it does. No reason to do any kind of comparison with Intel here I believe.

Intel's own chips are full of vulnerabilities and Intel is a huge company that builds everything. Intel had 6-8 months to create patches and the first versions where unstable.

Nvidia's own departments messed up - if we believe Nvidia's official explanation - with the GTX 970 specs. No miscommunication between two different companies.

AMD needed to outsource chipsets, because of financial problems. If Ryzen keeps selling and if miners keep the GPU department profitable, then we will get better products from AMD. Until then we shouldn't have higher expectations from them, than the ones we have from the other two, much bigger and much more profitable companies.
They do have to be more careful, but until now they had no other option but to trust other companies.

HTC · Mar 23, 2018

R-T-B said:
No, they don't. Mobo manufacturerers use ASMedia chips to add suplemental USB ports, but Intel designs it's own chipset and has no relationship really with ASMedia.

AMD literally had ASMedia design their entire chipset.

I stand corrected.

R-T-B · Mar 23, 2018

john_ said:
AMD also doesn't manufacture their own chips. I mean, Global Foundries could, somehow, install backdoors in CPUs, right?

I mean, no, not without the high level transistor code files, no.

System Name	Pioneer
Processor	Ryzen R9 9950X
Motherboard	GIGABYTE Aorus Elite X670 AX
Cooling	Noctua NH-D15 + A whole lotta Sunon and Corsair Maglev blower fans...
Memory	64GB (4x 16GB) G.Skill Flare X5 @ DDR5-6000 CL30
Video Card(s)	XFX RX 7900 XTX Speedster Merc 310
Storage	Intel 905p Optane 960GB boot, +2x Crucial P5 Plus 2TB PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSDs
Display(s)	55" LG 55" B9 OLED 4K Display
Case	Thermaltake Core X31
Audio Device(s)	TOSLINK->Schiit Modi MB->Asgard 2 DAC Amp->AKG Pro K712 Headphones or HDMI->B9 OLED
Power Supply	FSP Hydro Ti Pro 850W
Mouse	Logitech G305 Lightspeed Wireless
Keyboard	WASD Code v3 with Cherry Green keyswitches + PBT DS keycaps
Software	Gentoo Linux x64 / Windows 11 Enterprise IoT 2024

System Name	HTC's System
Processor	Ryzen 5 5800X3D
Motherboard	Asrock Taichi X370
Cooling	NH-C14, with the AM4 mounting kit
Memory	G.Skill Kit 16GB DDR4 F4 - 3200 C16D - 16 GTZB
Video Card(s)	Sapphire Pulse 6600 8 GB
Storage	1 Samsung NVMe 960 EVO 250 GB + 1 3.5" Seagate IronWolf Pro 6TB 7200RPM 256MB SATA III
Display(s)	LG 27UD58
Case	Fractal Design Define R6 USB-C
Audio Device(s)	Onboard
Power Supply	Corsair TX 850M 80+ Gold
Mouse	Razer Deathadder Elite
Software	Ubuntu 20.04.6 LTS

System Name	PCGOD
Processor	AMD FX 8350@ 5.0GHz
Motherboard	Asus TUF 990FX Sabertooth R2 2901 Bios
Cooling	Scythe Ashura, 2×BitFenix 230mm Spectre Pro LED (Blue,Green), 2x BitFenix 140mm Spectre Pro LED
Memory	16 GB Gskill Ripjaws X 2133 (2400 OC, 10-10-12-20-20, 1T, 1.65V)
Video Card(s)	AMD Radeon 290 Sapphire Vapor-X
Storage	Samsung 840 Pro 256GB, WD Velociraptor 1TB
Display(s)	NEC Multisync LCD 1700V (Display Port Adapter)
Case	AeroCool Xpredator Evil Blue Edition
Audio Device(s)	Creative Labs Sound Blaster ZxR
Power Supply	Seasonic 1250 XM2 Series (XP3)
Mouse	Roccat Kone XTD
Keyboard	Roccat Ryos MK Pro
Software	Windows 7 Pro 64

System Name	Pioneer
Processor	Ryzen R9 9950X
Motherboard	GIGABYTE Aorus Elite X670 AX
Cooling	Noctua NH-D15 + A whole lotta Sunon and Corsair Maglev blower fans...
Memory	64GB (4x 16GB) G.Skill Flare X5 @ DDR5-6000 CL30
Video Card(s)	XFX RX 7900 XTX Speedster Merc 310
Storage	Intel 905p Optane 960GB boot, +2x Crucial P5 Plus 2TB PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSDs
Display(s)	55" LG 55" B9 OLED 4K Display
Case	Thermaltake Core X31
Audio Device(s)	TOSLINK->Schiit Modi MB->Asgard 2 DAC Amp->AKG Pro K712 Headphones or HDMI->B9 OLED
Power Supply	FSP Hydro Ti Pro 850W
Mouse	Logitech G305 Lightspeed Wireless
Keyboard	WASD Code v3 with Cherry Green keyswitches + PBT DS keycaps
Software	Gentoo Linux x64 / Windows 11 Enterprise IoT 2024

System Name	PCGOD
Processor	AMD FX 8350@ 5.0GHz
Motherboard	Asus TUF 990FX Sabertooth R2 2901 Bios
Cooling	Scythe Ashura, 2×BitFenix 230mm Spectre Pro LED (Blue,Green), 2x BitFenix 140mm Spectre Pro LED
Memory	16 GB Gskill Ripjaws X 2133 (2400 OC, 10-10-12-20-20, 1T, 1.65V)
Video Card(s)	AMD Radeon 290 Sapphire Vapor-X
Storage	Samsung 840 Pro 256GB, WD Velociraptor 1TB
Display(s)	NEC Multisync LCD 1700V (Display Port Adapter)
Case	AeroCool Xpredator Evil Blue Edition
Audio Device(s)	Creative Labs Sound Blaster ZxR
Power Supply	Seasonic 1250 XM2 Series (XP3)
Mouse	Roccat Kone XTD
Keyboard	Roccat Ryos MK Pro
Software	Windows 7 Pro 64

CTS-Labs Posts Ryzen Windows Credential Guard Bypass Proof-of-concept Video

R-T-B

cadaveca

My name is Dave

HTC

eidairaman1

The Exiled Airman

R-T-B

eidairaman1

The Exiled Airman

R-T-B

eidairaman1

The Exiled Airman

lexluthermiester

eidairaman1

The Exiled Airman

ikeke

john_

HTC

R-T-B

System Name	Steamy
Processor	Ryzen 7 2700X
Motherboard	Asrock AB350M-Pro4
Cooling	Wraith Prism
Memory	2x8GB HX429C15PB3AK2/16
Video Card(s)	R9 290X WC
Storage	960Evo 500GB nvme
Case	Fractal Design Define Mini C
Power Supply	Seasonic SS-660XP2
Software	Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores	http://hwbot.org/user/kinski/ http://valid.x86.fr/qfxqhj https://goo.gl/uWkw7n

System Name	3 desktop systems: Gaming / Internet / HTPC
Processor	Ryzen 5 5500 / Ryzen 5 4600G / FX 6300 (12 years latter got to see how bad Bulldozer is)
Motherboard	MSI X470 Gaming Plus Max (1) / MSI X470 Gaming Plus Max (2) / Gigabyte GA-990XA-UD3
Cooling	Νoctua U12S / Segotep T4 / Snowman M-T6
Memory	32GB - 16GB G.Skill RIPJAWS 3600+16GB G.Skill Aegis 3200 / 16GB JUHOR / 16GB Kingston 2400MHz (DDR3)
Video Card(s)	ASRock RX 6600 + GT 710 (PhysX)/ Vega 7 integrated / Radeon RX 580
Storage	NVMes, ONLY NVMes/ NVMes, SATA Storage / NVMe boot(Clover), SATA storage
Display(s)	Philips 43PUS8857/12 UHD TV (120Hz, HDR, FreeSync Premium) ---- 19'' HP monitor + BlitzWolf BW-V5
Case	Sharkoon Rebel 12 / CoolerMaster Elite 361 / Xigmatek Midguard
Audio Device(s)	onboard
Power Supply	Chieftec 850W / Silver Power 400W / Sharkoon 650W
Mouse	CoolerMaster Devastator III Plus / CoolerMaster Devastator / Logitech
Keyboard	CoolerMaster Devastator III Plus / CoolerMaster Devastator / Logitech
Software	Windows 10 / Windows 10&Windows 11 / Windows 10