• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Samsung To Reduce DRAM Output Growth in Favor of Maintaining Prices, Says Bloomberg

Joined
Jan 27, 2015
Messages
454 (0.13/day)
System Name Marmo / Kanon
Processor Intel Core i7 9700K / AMD Ryzen 7 5800X
Motherboard Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Pro WiFi / X570S Aorus Pro AX
Cooling Noctua NH-U12S x 2
Memory Corsair Vengeance 32GB 2666-C16 / 32GB 3200-C16
Video Card(s) KFA2 RTX3070 Ti / Asus TUF RX 6800XT OC
Storage Samsung 970 EVO+ 1TB, 860 EVO 1TB / Samsung 970 Pro 1TB, 970 EVO+ 1TB
Display(s) Dell AW2521HFA / U2715H
Case Fractal Design Focus G / Pop Air RGB
Audio Device(s) Onboard / Creative SB ZxR
Power Supply SeaSonic Focus GX 650W / PX 750W
Mouse Logitech MX310 / G1
Keyboard Logitech G413 / G513
Software Win 11 Ent
So basically when I picked up Corsair 2x16GB DDR4 2666 from Amazon for £200 (believe it was a labelling error) last November, that was like a last sight of an extinct animal. Unless the regulators do something or some new players join the market and stir things up, the DRAM price will never come down again.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2013
Messages
6,186 (1.53/day)
Location
Over here, right where you least expect me to be !
System Name The Little One
Processor i5-11320H @4.4GHZ
Motherboard AZW SEI
Cooling Fan w/heat pipes + side & rear vents
Memory 64GB Crucial DDR4-3200 (2x 32GB)
Video Card(s) Iris XE
Storage WD Black SN850X 4TB m.2, Seagate 2TB SSD + SN850 4TB x2 in an external enclosure
Display(s) 2x Samsung 43" & 2x 32"
Case Practically identical to a mac mini, just purrtier in slate blue, & with 3x usb ports on the front !
Audio Device(s) Yamaha ATS-1060 Bluetooth Soundbar & Subwoofer
Power Supply 65w brick
Mouse Logitech MX Master 2
Keyboard Logitech G613 mechanical wireless
Software Windows 10 pro 64 bit, with all the unnecessary background shitzu turned OFF !
Benchmark Scores PDQ
this is the same sh*t that opec does with OIL, so why is it such a surprise to everyone ?

and btw, due to the "capitalism 101" clause, the other mfgr's wont jack up production, simply because they LIKE/WANT/NEED the high prices to remain in effect to bolster their bottom lines, especially going into the holiday season when most (at least in the US) consumers spend way more moolah than they should on stuff they cant afford nor actually NEED.

That way they can put the ram "on sale" for ~10-15% off, to make you think you're getting a good deal, and unfortunately, 90+% of people fall for it too :D
 
Joined
Jul 16, 2016
Messages
58 (0.02/day)
System Name "size does matter"
Processor i7-6700k
Motherboard Fatal1ty Gaming Z170 Gaming-ITX
Cooling Scythe big shuriken 2
Memory Crucial Ballistix Sport 8GBx2
Video Card(s) GTX 1080 Ti Turbo (gigabyte blower) got it form 320 eur form ex miner with 2 year warranty left
Storage toshiba q300 pro 512GB (waiting for that samsung 960 pro m.2)
Display(s) 4K Samsung LU28E590DS
Case Silverstone SG13 (you can fit exactly 2 of these in bitfinex Prodigy or Fractal Nano S "m-itx" case)
Power Supply silverstone SFX SX500-LG
Software win 10 pro
I never tought I would say this one day, but here it is - lets hope that China with a stolen IP will save us
 

FordGT90Concept

"I go fast!1!11!1!"
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
26,259 (4.46/day)
Location
IA, USA
System Name BY-2021
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X (65w eco profile)
Motherboard MSI B550 Gaming Plus
Cooling Scythe Mugen (rev 5)
Memory 2 x Kingston HyperX DDR4-3200 32 GiB
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon RX 7900 XT
Storage Samsung 980 Pro, Seagate Exos X20 TB 7200 RPM
Display(s) Nixeus NX-EDG274K (3840x2160@144 DP) + Samsung SyncMaster 906BW (1440x900@60 HDMI-DVI)
Case Coolermaster HAF 932 w/ USB 3.0 5.25" bay + USB 3.2 (A+C) 3.5" bay
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC1150, Micca OriGen+
Power Supply Enermax Platimax 850w
Mouse Nixeus REVEL-X
Keyboard Tesoro Excalibur
Software Windows 10 Home 64-bit
Benchmark Scores Faster than the tortoise; slower than the hare.
What Samsung does is 100% legal and actually fairly normal. Just like with Nvidia and RTX, they've decided to sell less items for a higher price. I don't understand why people here are reacting so negatively.
Because they collectively decide to inflate the price of DRAM. The market appears to have no competition.
 
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Messages
1,162 (0.20/day)
Location
I live in Norway
Processor R9 5800x3d | R7 3900X | 4800H | 2x Xeon gold 6142
Motherboard Asrock X570M | AB350M Pro 4 | Asus Tuf A15
Cooling Air | Air | duh laptop
Memory 64gb G.skill SniperX @3600 CL16 | 128gb | 32GB | 192gb
Video Card(s) RTX 4080 |Quadro P5000 | RTX2060M
Storage Many drives
Display(s) AW3423dwf.
Case Jonsbo D41
Power Supply Corsair RM850x
Mouse g502 Lightspeed
Keyboard G913 tkl
Software win11, proxmox
this is the same sh*t that opec does with OIL, so why is it such a surprise to everyone ?

and btw, due to the "capitalism 101" clause, the other mfgr's wont jack up production, simply because they LIKE/WANT/NEED the high prices to remain in effect to bolster their bottom lines, especially going into the holiday season when most (at least in the US) consumers spend way more moolah than they should on stuff they cant afford nor actually NEED.

That way they can put the ram "on sale" for ~10-15% off, to make you think you're getting a good deal, and unfortunately, 90+% of people fall for it too :D

Opec lowered prices, other countries complain cause they can't compete at 25$ a barrel while most opec countries can happily do so with a 100% profit margin whilst many western oil nations have a 100% loss per barrel.
Quite different story, Opec is political, Dram is just companies doing their thing :)
 
Joined
Jun 15, 2016
Messages
1,042 (0.34/day)
Location
Pristina
System Name My PC
Processor 4670K@4.4GHz
Motherboard Gryphon Z87
Cooling CM 212
Memory 2x8GB+2x4GB @2400GHz
Video Card(s) XFX Radeon RX 580 GTS Black Edition 1425MHz OC+, 8GB
Storage Intel 530 SSD 480GB + Intel 510 SSD 120GB + 2x500GB hdd raid 1
Display(s) HP envy 32 1440p
Case CM Mastercase 5
Audio Device(s) Sbz ZXR
Power Supply Antec 620W
Mouse G502
Keyboard G910
Software Win 10 pro
Joined
Jun 28, 2016
Messages
3,595 (1.17/day)
So, now they are just straight up openly admitting they're price fixing DRAM... :/
They're selling a product at a price they want. We call this phenomenon "capitalism". It's good.
Price fixing is when multiple (competing) companies agree to sell for some price (or prices).

Samsung has just around 50% market share.
 
Joined
Feb 1, 2013
Messages
1,266 (0.29/day)
System Name Gentoo64 /w Cold Coffee
Processor 9900K 5.2GHz @1.312v
Motherboard MXI APEX
Cooling Raystorm Pro + 1260mm Super Nova
Memory 2x16GB TridentZ 4000-14-14-28-2T @1.6v
Video Card(s) RTX 4090 LiquidX Barrow 3015MHz @1.1v
Storage 660P 1TB, 860 QVO 2TB
Display(s) LG C1 + Predator XB1 QHD
Case Open Benchtable V2
Audio Device(s) SB X-Fi
Power Supply MSI A1000G
Mouse G502
Keyboard G815
Software Gentoo/Windows 10
Benchmark Scores Always only ever very fast
Apparently, these investors do not buy RAM.
 
Joined
Oct 2, 2004
Messages
13,791 (1.87/day)
They're selling a product at a price they want. We call this phenomenon "capitalism". It's good.
Price fixing is when multiple (competing) companies agree to sell for some price (or prices).

Samsung has just around 50% market share.

Or when one deliberately retards the production in order to keep high prices and they even brag about it. How is that not "price fixing"?!
 
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
14,091 (3.82/day)
Location
Sunshine Coast
System Name H7 Flow 2024
Processor AMD 5800X3D
Motherboard Asus X570 Tough Gaming
Cooling Custom liquid
Memory 32 GB DDR4
Video Card(s) Intel ARC A750
Storage Crucial P5 Plus 2TB.
Display(s) AOC 24" Freesync 1m.s. 75Hz
Mouse Lenovo
Keyboard Eweadn Mechanical
Software W11 Pro 64 bit
They're selling a product at a price they want. We call this phenomenon "capitalism". It's good.
Price fixing is when multiple (competing) companies agree to sell for some price (or prices).
So by your definition, they are price fixing, one company limits production, and the other colluding manufacturers have agreed to maintain the high prices, even if they do ramp up production, in fact, they now have an excuse to raise prices further.
 
Joined
Mar 10, 2015
Messages
3,984 (1.12/day)
System Name Wut?
Processor 3900X
Motherboard ASRock Taichi X570
Cooling Water
Memory 32GB GSkill CL16 3600mhz
Video Card(s) Vega 56
Storage 2 x AData XPG 8200 Pro 1TB
Display(s) 3440 x 1440
Case Thermaltake Tower 900
Power Supply Seasonic Prime Ultra Platinum
I never tought I would say this one day, but here it is - lets hope that China with a stolen IP will save us

Never wish for that.
 
Joined
Jun 28, 2016
Messages
3,595 (1.17/day)
Or when one deliberately retards the production in order to keep high prices and they even brag about it. How is that not "price fixing"?!
First of all: this is not how prices work :-D
Samsung limits production and keeps high prices. There's no implication in either way. They could make twice as much RAM and set even higher prices.

Second: no, this is not "price fixing". A company can make how much they want (can) and ask how much they want.
How do you know which price is "right" aka not too high or too low? Why do you think the price Samsung asks now is too high? Maybe their price is the only proper one? Maybe everyone else are dumping? :)

Third: Samsung has 50% market share. Other manufacturers may still sell their stuff at lower prices. Or they may follow Samsung and get higher margins.
The important fact is: that's still not "price fixing".
For this situation to be illegal, these companies would have to meet unofficially (in conspiracy) and make an agreement that they'll keep the prices high and improve margins. So to prosecute anyone, you'd need a proof of this cooperation. Just the fact that everyone suddenly sells stuff for twice as much as they used to is not enough, because this can happen in a legal way as well.

I'm accenting the "conspiracy" element, because it's vital as well. We have institutions and groups that are officially controlling volume and prices on some goods (like OPEC).
Also, most countries have limits on quantity and prices for agricultural products (and other as well).
This is not "price fixing" aka a crime. This is just fixing prices aka improving profits.

In many countries creating cartels like OPEC is illegal. This is also true for the whole EU, so, for example, no EU country would be able to join OPEC.
However, OPEC is not seen as a criminal organisation as such. OPEC's HQ is in Vienna. :)
might aswell make them $1000 per 8gb stick, no one is going to buy memory at these prices anyway
Wrong. Almost everyone will buy RAM at the price it's currently available for.
Sure, a gamer who builds his own rig can delay some decisions. But that's what... few % of the market?

Also, isn't Samsung still the only dependable source of RAM for AMD Ryzen owners (at least those that OC)?
In that case there is a group that won't have a choice.
So by your definition, they are price fixing, one company limits production, and the other colluding manufacturers have agreed to maintain the high prices, even if they do ramp up production, in fact, they now have an excuse to raise prices further.
No. They would have to cooperate - meet and decide for how much they'll sell. If Samsung raises prices and everyone else just follow, that is not price fixing.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Apr 12, 2013
Messages
7,528 (1.77/day)
might aswell make them $1000 per 8gb stick, no one is going to buy memory at these prices anyway
Except system builders, phone makers, OEM, ODM, HPC, servers, data centers, cloud, streaming services, govt (backed) universities etc.
 
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Messages
21,453 (3.40/day)
System Name Pioneer
Processor Ryzen R9 9950X
Motherboard GIGABYTE Aorus Elite X670 AX
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 + A whole lotta Sunon and Corsair Maglev blower fans...
Memory 64GB (4x 16GB) G.Skill Flare X5 @ DDR5-6000 CL30
Video Card(s) XFX RX 7900 XTX Speedster Merc 310
Storage Intel 905p Optane 960GB boot, +2x Crucial P5 Plus 2TB PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSDs
Display(s) 55" LG 55" B9 OLED 4K Display
Case Thermaltake Core X31
Audio Device(s) TOSLINK->Schiit Modi MB->Asgard 2 DAC Amp->AKG Pro K712 Headphones or HDMI->B9 OLED
Power Supply FSP Hydro Ti Pro 850W
Mouse Logitech G305 Lightspeed Wireless
Keyboard WASD Code v3 with Cherry Green keyswitches + PBT DS keycaps
Software Gentoo Linux x64 / Windows 11 Enterprise IoT 2024
They're selling a product at a price they want. We call this phenomenon "capitalism". It's good.

When properly regulated, it can be good. This is not a case of that.

Also, isn't Samsung still the only dependable source of RAM for AMD Ryzen owners (at least those that OC)?

Not really, no?
 
Joined
Jun 28, 2016
Messages
3,595 (1.17/day)
When properly regulated, it can be good. This is not a case of that.
How would you like this regulation to be implemented? Korean government should impose a limit price for Samsung? It's the other Korea! :-D
 
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Messages
21,453 (3.40/day)
System Name Pioneer
Processor Ryzen R9 9950X
Motherboard GIGABYTE Aorus Elite X670 AX
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 + A whole lotta Sunon and Corsair Maglev blower fans...
Memory 64GB (4x 16GB) G.Skill Flare X5 @ DDR5-6000 CL30
Video Card(s) XFX RX 7900 XTX Speedster Merc 310
Storage Intel 905p Optane 960GB boot, +2x Crucial P5 Plus 2TB PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSDs
Display(s) 55" LG 55" B9 OLED 4K Display
Case Thermaltake Core X31
Audio Device(s) TOSLINK->Schiit Modi MB->Asgard 2 DAC Amp->AKG Pro K712 Headphones or HDMI->B9 OLED
Power Supply FSP Hydro Ti Pro 850W
Mouse Logitech G305 Lightspeed Wireless
Keyboard WASD Code v3 with Cherry Green keyswitches + PBT DS keycaps
Software Gentoo Linux x64 / Windows 11 Enterprise IoT 2024
How would you like this regulation to be implemented? Korean government should impose a limit price for Samsung? It's the other Korea! :-D

I would think a large near monopoly (in this case, pretty much a three company cartel) should have some price limit or some required transparency and oversight yes. That's not happening here at all.

Just because North Korea does it globally doesn't make it wrong in every single case.
 
Joined
Jun 28, 2016
Messages
3,595 (1.17/day)
I would think a large near monopoly (in this case, pretty much a three company cartel) should have some price limit or some required transparency and oversight yes. That's not happening here at all.
How will you estimate the price limit? Is RAM too expensive? How do you evaluate "too expensive"?

Who will impose these regulations? Korea is the world's supplier of RAM and RAM is vital. You want Korean gov to take control over this business? Seriously?
Or maybe we'll start a global organization that's sole purpose would be to tell those few public companies headquartered in a democratic country, how they should do their business? :)
Screw it. Let's just bomb them and take whatever is left by force.

But then, honestly, isn't clean water more vital than RAM? So maybe we'll make a global organization that will control how everyone use water and if your favourite supplier isn't charging too much? I guess we can't bomb everyone. Or can we...?




Samsung is a public company, they publish financial statements, forecasts, plans.
They've just literally said: we want to make less RAM, but sell it for more, so that this move doesn't hurt our financial result.
CAN A COMPANY BE ANY MORE TRANSPARENT?
 
Joined
Apr 3, 2010
Messages
800 (0.15/day)
Location
US
System Name Desktop
Processor AMD Ryzen 5 5600X [3.7GHz/4.6GHz][6C/12T]
Motherboard ASUS TUF Gaming X570-PRO [X570]
Cooling Cooler Master Hyper 212 RGB Black Edition
Memory G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB [DDR4 3600][2x16GB][16-19-19-39@1.35V]
Video Card(s) ASUS KO GeForce RTX 3060 Ti V2 OC Edition 8GB GDDR6 [511.65]
Storage [OS] Samsung 970 Evo 500GB | [Storage] 980 1TB | 860 Evo 1TB | 850 Evo 500GB | Seagate Firecuda 2TB
Display(s) LG 27GL850 [27"][2560x1440@144Hz][Nano IPS][LED][G-SYNC Compatible][DP]
Case Corsair Obsidian 750D
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC S1200A High Definition Audio CODEC
Power Supply EVGA SuperNOVA 1000 G1+ [+12V: 83.3A 999.6W][80 Plus Gold]
Mouse Logitech M570 Trackball
Keyboard Corsair Gaming K55 RGB
Software Microsoft Windows 10 Pro [21H1][64-bit]
What would make this illegal is if, instead of hoping Micron and SK Hynix will follow their lead, they were actually planning this together.
 
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Messages
21,453 (3.40/day)
System Name Pioneer
Processor Ryzen R9 9950X
Motherboard GIGABYTE Aorus Elite X670 AX
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 + A whole lotta Sunon and Corsair Maglev blower fans...
Memory 64GB (4x 16GB) G.Skill Flare X5 @ DDR5-6000 CL30
Video Card(s) XFX RX 7900 XTX Speedster Merc 310
Storage Intel 905p Optane 960GB boot, +2x Crucial P5 Plus 2TB PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSDs
Display(s) 55" LG 55" B9 OLED 4K Display
Case Thermaltake Core X31
Audio Device(s) TOSLINK->Schiit Modi MB->Asgard 2 DAC Amp->AKG Pro K712 Headphones or HDMI->B9 OLED
Power Supply FSP Hydro Ti Pro 850W
Mouse Logitech G305 Lightspeed Wireless
Keyboard WASD Code v3 with Cherry Green keyswitches + PBT DS keycaps
Software Gentoo Linux x64 / Windows 11 Enterprise IoT 2024
How will you estimate the price limit? Is RAM too expensive? How do you evaluate "too expensive"?

I would assume when it bucks market trends, but I am not an economy expert by any means, I just know an unhealthy state of affairs when I see it.

They've just literally said: we want to make less RAM, but sell it for more, so that this move doesn't hurt our financial result.

To which the regulators should watch closely to make sure no backdoor meetings went on with competitors (they have done this before, you know).

Samsung isn't the only guilty body here. Complacent regulators are just as bad.

What would make this illegal is if, instead of hoping Micron and SK Hynix will follow their lead, they were actually planning this together.

Yes, and given their history of doing just that, not watching them like a hawk would be a fools errand. It's also probably what's happening, sadly. But you know, that's ok! Because capitalism.
 
Joined
Feb 18, 2012
Messages
2,715 (0.58/day)
System Name MSI GP76
Processor intel i7 11800h
Cooling 2 laptop fans
Memory 32gb of 3000mhz DDR4
Video Card(s) Nvidia 3070
Storage x2 PNY 8tb cs2130 m.2 SSD--16tb of space
Display(s) 17.3" IPS 1920x1080 240Hz
Power Supply 280w laptop power supply
Mouse Logitech m705
Keyboard laptop keyboard
Software lots of movies and Windows 10 with win 7 shell
Benchmark Scores Good enough for me
When I bought my MB in 2015 it came with a free stick of Avexir 8GB DDR4 2133 memory, I miss those days.
Today's motherboards come with a free SATA cable.
 
Joined
Sep 15, 2011
Messages
6,722 (1.40/day)
Processor Intel® Core™ i7-13700K
Motherboard Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Elite AX
Cooling Noctua NH-D15
Memory 32GB(2x16) DDR5@6600MHz G-Skill Trident Z5
Video Card(s) ZOTAC GAMING GeForce RTX 3080 AMP Holo
Storage 2TB SK Platinum P41 SSD + 4TB SanDisk Ultra SSD + 500GB Samsung 840 EVO SSD
Display(s) Acer Predator X34 3440x1440@100Hz G-Sync
Case NZXT PHANTOM410-BK
Audio Device(s) Creative X-Fi Titanium PCIe
Power Supply Corsair 850W
Mouse Logitech Hero G502 SE
Software Windows 11 Pro - 64bit
Benchmark Scores 30FPS in NFS:Rivals
Top