New PT Data: i9-9900K is 66% Pricier While Being Just 12% Faster than 2700X at Gaming

[Vayra86]

I can see where you're coming from, however if games & other applications, which can utilize more cores, are to be mainstream/better than they currently are ~ users need access to cheap(er) cores. There's also the fact that the 9900k isn't the flagship for desktops, at least I don't consider MSDT as flagship.

That's what I have serious a problem with, the market leader today can charge whatever they want & basically get away with it. The likes of Apple, Intel, Nvidia et al can charge obscene amounts of money, exploit slave labour, hazardous working conditions, economies of scale & even trade wars to basically suck out a disproportionate amount of money from the normal user that it's insane, thinking about the piles of cash they have. You're saying Intel is undercharging, how do you explain their ever increasing profits then?

Lastly I see this phrase often times repeated these days, what's "entitled to" supposed to mean in this case? Shouldn't corporations be held accountable to a particular standard, are they entitled to "free money" or no/less scrutiny in perpetuity?

Companies are not 'accountable' for the pricing of their product stack. That's just the choice they make, and the market determines whether they stick or they don't.

There are way too many people on this forum and elsewhere that suffer from this disease called 'entitlement'. What it means? 'I used to buy this sort of CPU for amount X a number of years ago, so I should be able to do the same today' is one example of it. Entitlement means ignoring every circumstance but your own desires to convince yourself of some twisted truth.

That is exactly what happens on GPU since Pascal and the mining craze and it also happens Intel CPUs because there are cheaper alternatives. Ignoring the fact that Intel still has a performance crown and charges premium for it, because 'I used to be able to buy an i7 in the Haswell days and that was the best Intel had, too'. For GPU: entitlement is why people end up ignoring obvious 'too good to be true' situations and buy cheap knock-offs that turn out to be fakes or half broken cards. And get mad at Nvidia for exploiting their current position. Realistically, though, if you want to get what you want at a lower price, you need to simply not buy something. Restraint is fast becoming a rare quality these days. And whenever you say such a thing, a bunch of people will respond with 'but others will buy it anyway so what's the point' - thát is entitlement (or 'fear of missing out'). Others buy it, so why should I miss out? Why can they have what I can't?

Accountability applies to responsibilities. Entitlement applies to desire. And none of us 'need' this hardware to live. Intel has no 'responsibility' to provide us with a product that is reasonably priced for anyone's (realistic or not) standards.

Ironically, you don't even 'need' an Intel 9900K to play games, not even remotely close. You can suffice with far cheaper alternatives and still have a rig that lasts 5 years+. Spoiler: its still not going to be a 2700X as the optimal choice - not even when perf/dollar is your concern. This whole topic title is wrong on so many levels.

 

[Deleted member 178884]

Just a BAD troll

Nice troll yourself there, The funny thing with this launch is it displays most people's ignorance, congrats on taking a 8c8t over a 8c16t. It is a fail, The funny thing is all of this nonsense and ignorance is coming from ignorant fanboys, I've bought what's best for my needs for years, I've owned plenty of amd and intel systems from the early 2000s in particular. There's no better time than now to go with amd - You'd be a fool to buy a 9700k over a 2700x at this stage, I guess your wife won't be happy when she sees zen 3 drop and intel throws out another chipset since the 9900k will be the last supported cpu for z370/90 - any new cpus will be on yet another chipset. How about actually wait for benchmarks rather than pre ordering hardware?

 

[SIGSEGV]

Who would have guess, a niche and expensive product will get less popularity among people.

Shocking.

lol, niche? luxury? not really, it's just a piece of silicon and beyond silly to say that because Intel charges a ton of money then you label it with luxury and niche...
I found it very hilarious, so silly and beyond my comprehension...haha

Imagine if they would make a poll without false choices?
i7-9700K, i5-9600K, i7-8700K, i7-8700 and i5-8600K are all better choices for gaming and overall than 2700/X.

lol, FALSE!
I believe you don't have any single AMD rig setup. lol

 

[Deleted member 178884]

but with that and the Price only beeing 50$ deferent

"only 50$ different" - Unless you've got the best available graphics card paired with that 9700k then your compromising performance and you should put the 50$ saved from a ryzen setup into a 1080 ti or above or even a vega 64 and a freesync monitor.

lol, niche? luxury? not really, it's just a piece of silicon and beyond silly to say that because Intel charges a ton of money then you label it with luxury and niche...
I found it very hilarious, so silly and beyond my comprehension...haha

"luxury" yet chances are he's going to pair a 9900k with a 2080 ti nvlink and a 1080p 240hz monitor to play csgo, a real gamer would work out they're having their wallet eaten unnecessarily - it's fair enough if you've got disposable income though, but most people don't making it a complete joke.

lol, FALSE!
I believe you don't have any single AMD rig setup. lol

I'd take this all with a pinch of salt - Chances are people here are being paid to regurgitate trash, the 8700k is a better buy than any 9 series processor if they absolutely must use intel - intel done amd a favor by moving to 8 cores - AMD can laugh now since intel's basically done them a favor with poor pricing since it's showing the value of ryzen to fools - even the title of this thread shows the truth and reality of intel - premium for performance.

 

[JalleR]

"only 50$ different" - Unless you've got the best available graphics card paired with that 9700k then your compromising performance and you should put the 50$ saved from a ryzen setup into a 1080 ti or above or even a vega 64 and a freesync monitor.

I kinda do, she is using my old 1080ti and i also have the 2666 DDR4 all ready, so i will need to use more Money on the ryzen setup, for optimal performance.

BTW the "Happy wife, happy life Intel 4 Life " was just a for fun play on words, but maybe this thread is to heated for that my bad.

 

[Deleted member 178884]

I kinda do, she is using my old 1080ti and i also have the 2666 DDR4 all ready, so i will need to use more Money on the ryzen setup, for optimal performance.

Fair enough.

BTW the "Happy wife, happy life Intel 4 Life " was just a for fun play on words, but maybe this thread is to heated for that my bad.

It's definitely heated it's amd vs intel after all, I never take sides myself since I'd rather not downgrade myself to a fanboy and people are forgetting there's no way AMD is sitting and sleeping through this launch - they've got something under their sleeve, 12 cores for am4 perhaps.

 

[HTC]

Fair enough.

It's definitely heated it's amd vs intel after all, I never take sides myself since I'd rather not downgrade myself to a fanboy and people are forgetting there's no way AMD is sitting and sleeping through this launch - they've got something under their sleeve, 12 cores for am4 perhaps.

Seriously doubt this. Perhaps with Zen 2 on 7nm but not with Zen + on 12 nm.

 

[Deleted member 178884]

Seriously doubt this. Perhaps with Zen 2 on 7nm but not with Zen + on 12 nm.

I don't. Let's face it - the 9900k will beat the 2700x in multi thread and single thread - AMD will win in value ultimately but they need to respond with something, a 10c isn't supposed to be possible for zen meaning it will need to be a 12 core cpu and in the process they'd throw a serious punch at intel - the time is most likely planned for the 9th gen launch - they could still price this 12 core at £400-500 and I'd still be excellent value for those who need that many cores.

 

[dj-electric]

lol, niche? luxury? not really, it's just a piece of silicon and beyond silly to say that because Intel charges a ton of money then you label it with luxury and niche...

That's the definition of every expensive CPU in the past 20 years, including Intel's 18 core and AMD's 999$ FX 9590.
"It is just a piece of silicon" That costs a lot of money and is not intended for a large audience.

On a side note - This thread turned into the biggest sewage tsunami since... ever. Can't recall a worse time to "discuss" matters on TPU. Sad. People on both sides completely lost their damn mind.

 

[Deleted member 178884]

That costs a lot of money and is not intended for a large audience.

Then tell us, Why did they put a £600 cpu on a MAINSTREAM platform? That's like grabbing a 7900x and shoving it into z370 - it's a HEDT cpu not intended for a mainstream platform - the entire point is it being available to a LARGE audience that's what the mainstream is for.

 

[Vayra86]

Then tell us, Why did they put a £600 cpu on a MAINSTREAM platform? That's like grabbing a 7900x and shoving it into z370 - it's a HEDT cpu not intended for a mainstream platform - the entire point is it being available to a LARGE audience that's what the mainstream is for.

It is available to a large audience, because it has moved to a cheaper class of motherboards/chipsets that are optimized for mainstream users.

FX 9590 launch price - and btw, I've highlighted some fun similarities.

Perspective, ey? I guess Intel could have easily went for 800 bucks.

Small detail, on top of all that: FX 9590 wasn't even the fastest CPU available.

 

[dj-electric]

Then tell us, Why did they put a £600 cpu on a MAINSTREAM platform? That's like grabbing a 7900x and shoving it into z370 - it's a HEDT cpu not intended for a mainstream platform - the entire point is it being available to a LARGE audience that's what the mainstream is for.

Nobody said that LGA1151 should be limited to XXX$. It is up to Intel\AMD to decide what CPUs they put in their sockets and how much they charge for it. Just like it is our choice to purchase such CPU or not.

People being mad at certain CPUs being expensive is like being mad a designer handbag costs 9999$. Nobody is forcing you to buy it. If 2700X fits your budget and needs - go ahead, that's exactly what it was intended for.

 

[JalleR]

Fair enough.
It's definitely heated it's amd vs intel after all, I never take sides myself since I'd rather not downgrade myself to a fanboy and people are forgetting there's no way AMD is sitting and sleeping through this launch - they've got something under their sleeve, 12 cores for am4 perhaps.

Me2, fan boys is the worst, totally ignoring/hating any kind of success from a Company you don’t like is just stupid, and that is just another way of slowing Down or stopping great technology being developed.

im not totally agreeing with you on the comment "There's no better time than now to go with amd" because when the Athlon 64 came back in the days it was the same scenario ore even better for AMD" so lets hope that AMD can keep the steam up, but i can't wait for Zen3 because it is now the 4690k in my wife’s PC is starting to get to small even at 4,3Ghz


But even the BIGGEST Intel fan boy needs to be grate full for Zen, if zen wasn’t here the 9 and even the 10 series Intel would only be 6 cores at best, Especially with the 10nm problems Intel have

 

[Deleted member 178884]

Nobody said that LGA1151 should be limited to XXX$. It is up to Intel\AMD to decide what CPUs they put in their sockets and how much they charge for it. Just like it is our choice to purchase such CPU or not.

Well the 8c16t HEDT skylake-x refresh processor costs LESS, and it has 44 pci lanes.
Yes it's not for gamers but it shows how poorly priced this 9900k is.

 

[HTC]

I don't. Let's face it - the 9900k will beat the 2700x in multi thread and single thread - AMD will win in value ultimately but they need to respond with something, a 10c isn't supposed to be possible for zen meaning it will need to be a 12 core cpu and in the process they'd throw a serious punch at intel - the time is most likely planned for the 9th gen launch - they could still price this 12 core at £400-500 and I'd still be excellent value for those who need that many cores.

What i'm saying is the current Zen + chip layout doesn't support it on 12nm. Moving to 7nm will change things due to the shrink of the CCX's size and thus it should be possible to fit more then 2 CCXs (or have CCXs with more then 4 cores): this would enable over 8 cores for AM4 socket.

Remember: it's supposed to fit the AM4 socket. Unless ofc they changed this plan which means it could be possible to achieve, even on 12 nm.

Supposedly, the 7nm shrink will enable the usage of more then 2 CCXs and / or other changes, such as have the CCX be composed of only the cores while having an "extra CCX" with everything else, meaning up to 3 or 5 CCX total. This is just one of many theories floating around, and i'm not saying i agree with it, just yet.

 

[coozie78]

I kinda do, she is using my old 1080ti and i also have the 2666 DDR4 all ready, so i will need to use more Money on the ryzen setup, for optimal performance.

BTW the "Happy wife, happy life Intel 4 Life " was just a for fun play on words, but maybe this thread is to heated for that my bad.

Not flaming here but your $50 difference in price is a little disingenuous, how can you fairly compare a full AMD build with an Intel one when you already have the RAM for the Intel build? By the time you factor in memory and CPU cooler the Intel build would be far more expensive...Like I said, not flaming, just pointing out your comment was inaccurate/unfair.

And I got the joke BTW.

 

[Deleted member 178884]

im not totally agreeing with you on the comment "There's no better time than now to go with amd" because when the Athlon 64 came back in the days it was the same scenario ore even better for AMD" so lets hope that AMD can keep the steam up, but i can't wait for Zen3 because it is now the 4690k in my wife’s PC is starting to get to small even at 4,3Ghz

I can't agree with you here, People need to support the underdog when possible to help the market even out - with competition we all benefit, whether your a die hard intel fanboy or amd fanboy or neither. AMD will keep the steam up - they've got the ultimate technology on HEDT - Infinity fabric, intel can't compete with it no matter what - the thread ripper yields are too good for what they are and it's cheap whilst intel struggles to produce.

But even the BIGGEST Intel fan boy needs to be grate full for Zen, if zen wasn’t here the 9 and even the 10 series Intel would only be 6 cores at best, Especially with the 10nm problems Intel have

Actually i'd still likely be a 4c8t 9900k 14nm+++++

Remember: it's supposed to fit the AM4 socket. Unless ofc they changed this plan which means it could be possible to achieve, even on 12 nm.

AM4 is here to stay - I guess we will have to see the response.

It is available to a large audience, because it has moved to a cheaper class of motherboards/chipsets that are optimized for mainstream users.

FX 9590 launch price - and btw, I've highlighted some fun similarities.

Perspective, ey? I guess Intel could have easily went for 800 bucks.

Small detail, on top of all that: FX 9590 wasn't even the fastest CPU available.

The fx 9590 was a failure, It's a poor example. We'll see sales figures with this 9900k - I still think it's a joke to sell a mainstream processor at this price though, But we'll see.

People being mad at certain CPUs being expensive is like being mad a designer handbag costs 9999$. Nobody is forcing you to buy it. If 2700X fits your budget and needs - go ahead, that's exactly what it was intended for.

Comparing a handbag to technology? Get outta here, Well of course nobodys forcing me to buy it - My point is this is basically a HEDT chip being shoved onto the mainstream along with it's pricing - I guess it'll continue to rise since people do vote with their wallets but time will tell.

 

[dj-electric]

Well the 8c16t HEDT skylake-x refresh processor costs LESS, and it has 44 pci lanes.

I read 589$ there, not 489$. It does not cost less by any means.

 

[Deleted member 178884]

On a side note - This thread turned into the biggest sewage tsunami since... ever. Can't recall a worse time to "discuss" matters on TPU. Sad. People on both sides completely lost their damn mind.

Don't worry - it's bound to happen - if it get's out of hand, please @ a moderator who is online who can make amendments to this thread, the moderators on TPU are amazing though : )

I read 589$ there, not 489$.

Well - I am putting it in terms of UK pricing - the UK got screwed over since the 9900k is £600 here - the 9800x is unlikely to have messed up pricing.

 

[HTC]

AM4 is here to stay - I guess we will have to see the response.

IMO, the response will come with Zen 2 chips and whatever the flagship will be called, meaning it will come a while later, whenever Zen 2 chips are launched.

What i wish for is for AMD to somehow manage to have the infinity fabric not directly tied to the RAM speed but be in a divider instead: this could bring extra speed to the IF, even with slower RAM. I'm thinking along the lines of an extra 1 / 8th or 1 / 6th speed VS RAM speed, via a divider of some sort. This would make IF run with 2400 MHz ram @ 2700-2800 MHz and with 3200 MHz RAM @ 3600-3733 MHz which, due to how RyZen currently works, would be quite a nice boost to performance, even if not changing anything else, VS current Zen +.

As for the topic @ hand, i don't think anyone has mentioned it yet but the I9-9900K has one particular advantage over the 2700X: it has IGP.

 

[Deleted member 178884]

As for the topic @ hand, i don't think anyone has mentioned it yet but the I9-9900K has one particular advantage over the 2700X: it has IGP.

I should hope people don't use an IGPU with a £600 processor, this excludes 4k blu ray since you need an IGPU to use blu ray still.

 

[dj-electric]

I should hope people don't use an IGPU with a £600 processor, this excludes 4k blu ray since you need an IGPU to use blu ray still.

The IGP is a processing unit capable of giving very serious boost to encoding and decoding features, just like it does in programs like Handbrake

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Quick_Sync_Video

 

[Deleted member 178884]

I read 589$ there, not 489$. It does not cost less by any means.

I have the feeling you pre ordered, I hope you enjoy that purchase and it benefits you more than a 8700k will.

 

[dj-electric]

I have the feeling you pre ordered, I hope you enjoy that purchase and it benefits you more than a 8700k will.

I work for media, and do not have to purchase hardware, Thankfully. Otherwise would probably use something like a 2600 CPU.

 

[Deleted member 178884]

The IGP is a processing unit capable of giving very serious boost to encoding and decoding features, just like it does in programs like Handbrake

True Ryzen lacks this, But we'll have to see what AMD do in response - they may sit back or hold it all till zen 3 to dethrone intel - since they're already surviving with ryzen.

I work for media, and do not have to purchase hardware, Thankfully.

Well awesome! - That's an awesome job right there.