How long can the "right" PSU last?

[Shou Miko]

I was more thinking about if you need like 500-650watt for the whole system and you end up buying like 750-850watt wouldn't that be matter not to really pushing it to 100% all the time under load?

 

[TRIPTEX_CAN]

@Bill_Bright Moah fans.. all the HDDS

 

[Bill_Bright]

I was more thinking about if you need like 500-650watt for the whole system and you end up buying like 750-850watt wouldn't that be matter not to really pushing it to 100% all the time under load?

I'm a little confused. You said in your last post, "Doesn't help if you buy a bigger watts psu then needed...".

Now you seem to be saying it does help.

You definitely want to buy a supply that is bigger than you need. Some headroom is always advisable - especially when the load is constantly varying as happens with computer loads.

@TRIPTEX_CAN - well your screen shot must not show everything because I'm a little off still, but clearly your CPU clocks and voltages are making a HUGE difference. Plus the extra drives and fans. If your numbers there are correct, the 670W you mentioned above would be too light. In fact, the 750W you had before would be too light when the system was really taxed.

https://outervision.com/b/oMgqws

 

[TRIPTEX_CAN]

@Bill_Bright I had picked the wrong fans.

This 750w just isn't enough for heavy use even if it was new I think it would struggle. https://outervision.com/b/ZAjTfR

 

[AlienIsGOD]

Had a corsair hx 1000 last a solid 8 years, only replaced it cause I wanted a gold efficiency rated psu. It still runs in a friends machine with my old i5 2400

 

[Bill_Bright]

I think it would struggle

All PSUs weaken with age. While it is not common for all components inside your computer to demand peak power at the same time, it can happen and must be planned for. So it is certainly possible there could be times when your 750W was stressed.

 

[claylomax]

I'm still using my Antec Signature 650w from 2009.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Yeah, I've got a couple old Antecs chugging along too. They used to be my go-to brand.

 

[Shou Miko]

I'm a little confused. You said in your last post, "Doesn't help if you buy a bigger watts psu then needed...".

Now you seem to be saying it does help.

You definitely want to buy a supply that is bigger than you need. Some headroom is always advisable - especially when the load is constantly varying as happens with computer loads.

@TRIPTEX_CAN - well your screen shot must not show everything because I'm a little off still, but clearly your CPU clocks and voltages are making a HUGE difference. Plus the extra drives and fans. If your numbers there are correct, the 670W you mentioned above would be too light. In fact, the 750W you had before would be too light when the system was really taxed.

https://outervision.com/b/oMgqws

I am not talking like "yeee" 1000watt/1kw for that matter just like a couple of 100watts more so there will always be a headroom so you never max it out.

 

[FreedomEclipse]

No one can ever tell. I have had a HX1050 as well as an AX8 60 go bad on me. Neither of those were cheap PSUs back in the day. The AX series still aren't cheap either.

Both PSUs weren't being run anywhere close to their limits at the time also

 

[Bill_Bright]

just like a couple of 100watts more so there will always be a headroom so you never max it out.

I always buy an extra 100w or so because in 3 or 4 years, I might buy a bigger graphics card or put that PSU in a different computer.

Really, the only thing you hurt by buying too big is your wallet.

 

[eidairaman1]

I was more thinking about if you need like 500-650watt for the whole system and you end up buying like 750-850watt wouldn't that be matter not to really pushing it to 100% all the time under load?

Its a buffer, a psu will only use what is needed. I got the one I did for future upgrades, a PSU and case are the 2 things that shouldnt need upgrading on every build.

Im hoping to grab a TR 3950X or 3970WX with Navi+ next year. To me 16GB is plenty of ram.

 

[Bill_Bright]

a PSU and case are the 2 things that shouldnt need upgrading on every build.

I agree 100% but will go one further. A quality PSU and quality case form the foundation for a computer that will support years of "evolving" upgrades - not just total rebuilds - and that's a very good thing.

HOWEVER - because the case may be sitting in your computer room for years, aesthetics matter. For that reason, I avoid cases with fancy facades that may go "out of style" next year. I like plain, "classic but elegant", timeless cases - most recently those from Fractal Design. Plus, a plain front is so easy to keep clean compared to many cases that have all sorts of cracks and crevices, ridges and indentations to collect dust.

 

[TRIPTEX_CAN]

I was happy to get 10 years out of that PSU. I also bought my case at roughly the same time and instead of replacing it Ill be modding it to keep things interesting. Id be happy to have it forever until it physically no longer supports the hardware I install into it.

Im planning on painting it and modifying the side panel to keep pace with asthetics and trend... because that's important.

 

[phill]

I've still got my original AX 1200 units that powered my X58 rigs, they have been solid. Some have been used for mining so 800w constant pull and now they are sat crunching with WCG It's using about 120w at the moment

They have been completely solid PSUs, very happy. When I bought some 1200i's I was less than amused because all of the ones I bought, died.. Very unimpressed.. Not bought another Corsair PSU since... I've gone with EVGA G+/P2/T2 units.

I did have a PC & Cooling 1200w unit, but that died for some reason, I've no idea why.. I'm glad it never took my X58 system with it, I would have been very upset...

That said now, anything after 5 years, I'd probably put in something that will just plod along, so low usage. I never take a chance with PSUs, Gold being the minimum standard I'll aim for...

 

[Bill_Bright]

I never take a chance with PSUs, Gold being the minimum standard I'll aim for...

Just remember that being "Gold" does not, in any way, suggest the supply is more reliable or even of better "quality" than Silver, Bronze or White. 80 PLUS certs are not certs for quality, just efficiency.

 

[phill]

Just remember that being "Gold" does not, in any way, suggest the supply is more reliable or even of better "quality" than Silver, Bronze or White. 80 PLUS certs are not certs for quality, just efficiency.

Nothing is guaranteed in life but if you go with a decent brand and not middle of the road units, hopefully you'll get a good one. No complaints at all from me about EVGA at all with the units I have. I'm waiting on a few more units to be delivered so I can comment on those when I do

 

[John Naylor]

You're welcome to your opinion Bill, I'm not gonna argue with you. im certainly not interested in helping you understand warrantees.

Agreed ... for a time EVGA was offering a 10 year warranty on the B / B1 series PSUs. While it's certainly true that a longer warranty will be put on a higher quality component, after ll better quality parts should last longer. But let's face it warrantees are basically insurance policies. All quality levels fall on a curve, if you want to compete say and match your competitors $100 product with 5 year warranty, take your 3 year warranty $70 product and add $15 to the price to cover the greater anticipated failure rate.

Nothing is guaranteed in life but if you go with a decent brand and not middle of the road units, hopefully you'll get a good one. No complaints at all from me about EVGA at all with the units I have. I'm waiting on a few more units to be delivered so I can comment on those when I do

My son is on his 2nd G2 1000. It was the only thing in the PC that you could hear as fan noise was loud. After doing some seraching, it disn't seem to affect all units tho a significant portion of them ... well of course it's significant if you have one . It does after 18 months and the RMA replacement is again the noisiest thing on the PC. But like anything else.... Does EVGA make a) great PSUs b) good PSUs c) average PSUs or d) Crappy PSUS... again the two correct answers are e) They don't make any PSUs and f) the ones they do selll incluse a thru d

Doesn't help if you buy a bigger watts psu then needed so it can actually last a longer time because it will never be under 90-100% load?

I am not sure where I picked this up.

Yes it is a good idea, a PSU is most efficient at 50% load, so year, the PSU will be a) more efficient b) will produce less heat c) will produce less noise and heat. I just add up all the component wattages (with OC) ... simple math, don't need an online calculator and than multiply 1.25 to 1.50

No one can ever tell. I have had a HX1050 as well as an AX8 60 go bad on me. Neither of those were cheap PSUs back in the day. The AX series still aren't cheap either.

Both PSUs weren't being run anywhere close to their limits at the time also

The HX850 was a great one ... HX1050 and 1150 mot so much.

Yeah, I've got a couple old Antecs chugging along too. They used to be my go-to brand.

I consider the Antec CP 850 as probably the best Pricce / Performance buy on a PSU that I ever made.

All PSUs weaken with age. While it is not common for all components inside your computer to demand peak power at the same time, it can happen and must be planned for. So it is certainly possible there could be times when your 750W was stressed.

I have every system plugged into a "kil-o-watt" meter

http://www.p3international.com/products/P4400.html

OEM is more important than brand name. Every brand out there has good and bad units.
Knowledge is power, know what you're actually buying.

Not quite ... OEM name isn't worth much without knowing what platform the OEM used. Like vendors, OEMs make products to fit various price niche's from ow budget to enthusiast... for example.... if the OEM is Superflower, are we talking Golden Green or Leadex Platinum ... just like if you were buying Seasonic , are we talking Focus Gold of Focus Gold Plus ?

The Antec blew and killed the system. The Seasonic box continued to work properly for years afterward.
That's proof enough for me. It hasn't happened again since I quit Antec. Once bitten, twice shy.

You should be aware that 1) Antec doesn't make PSUs and 2) Seasonic makes a lage portion of Antec PSUs.

Antec Neo Eco 400/620, Antec High Current Gamer 400-620 , Antec High Current Gamer 750M/850M, Antec TruePower Classic. Antec EDGE 550-750, Antec EDGE 850 and others... also made many other solid PSUs XFX XTR2 Corsair AX 760-860, XFX XTS2 , XFX XTI , XFX ProSeries 1050/1250 , XFX XTR 1050, Corsair HX650

The Antec High Current Gamer (M) 400-620 is the same PSU as the SeasonicM12II Bronze

 

[jboydgolfer]

Doesn't help if you buy a bigger watts psu then needed so it can actually last a longer time because it will never be under 90-100% load?

I am not sure where I picked this up.

The longest lasting psu ive owned was Just under its rated wattage. Id guess it used > 80% most of the time. But id not buy based on any experience that is anecdotal, since if i were to, id always buy low wattage , cheaper psu's , as they have lasted the longest for me.

 

[John Naylor]

Couple of things to consider:

1. The higher the % of rated, the more noise

2. The higher the % of rated, the more heat

3. The higher the % of rated, the less efficiency and the greater your power bill. The extra cost to go bigger can pay for itself with power savings.

4. The higher the % of rated, the more electrical noise and less voltage stability, which in turn means the greater the chance that your OC will be impacted (not in a good way).

 

[sixor]

2008, ocz silentstream 600w, killed by a 4830 with a c2d stock

2008 corsair vx550, heavy oced 3570k and 965be with 4830 gtx460 270x 580x, still strong, with 3xhdd + 3xssd

 

[Bill_Bright]

All blanket statements are wrong.

1. The higher the % of rated, the more noise

Maybe. Depends on the fan and how it is controlled. If it is already spinning full speed at 70% load, it is not going to spin faster (thus louder) at 90% load. And of course, there are passively cooled PSUs too.

2. The higher the % of rated, the more heat

Maybe. 90% percent efficiency is 90% efficiency. Period. If your computer demands 300W, and your supply is rated at 90%, that supply will pull from the wall 333W and waste the same amount of energy (in the form of heat) regardless if the supply is a 500W supply @ 2/3 load or 1000W supply at 1/3 load. It is the exact same 33W of wasted energy.

3. The higher the % of rated, the less efficiency and the greater your power bill. The extra cost to go bigger can pay for itself with power savings.

Maybe. 80 PLUS white, for example is rated at 80% efficiency whether running at 20%, 50% or 100% loads.

As for greater power bills, you are talking cents per year! A Gold rated supply is rated at 90% efficiency with 50% load and 87% efficiency at 100% load. That's just 3% difference!

That means if your computer demands 300W, the supplies will pull from the wall 345W for the 87% supply vs 333W for the 90% supply. 12W difference and that is only when the computer is up and running and demanding that much power. Most computers sit near idle (or even off!) more hours per day so it would take years to "pay for itself" in energy savings.

But don't take my word for it. Use this Electricity Bill Calculator yourself. Check your power company to see what they charge. For me, OPPD charges 10.06 cents/kWh. I think 10 hours per day, 365 days per year is more than fair to make the point. That works out to a budget busting $4.41 cents per year savings. Now is that Gold supply really going to pay for itself over a quality Bronze any time soon? Nope.

4. The higher the % of rated, the more electrical noise and less voltage stability,

Oh? Says what? With two PSUs running at identical efficiencies (or even 5% different efficiencies) what says the one running at 80% loads will be less stable and produce more noise than the PSU running at 60%? I would like to see your source for that.

Even a PSU running at 100% of its rated load "should" be totally stable with total noise and ripple values properly suppressed to within specified tolerances. The problem there is, of course, there is no wiggle room left. So I'll give you that with 100% loads. But that's not what you said.

 

[Aquinus]

For reference, I just looked, and if I had the right PSU, you have a 5-year warranty.

When I bought my Seasonic 1000w Platinum, the 8 year warranty is what screamed to me "quality." You don't put a warranty like that on a product unless you're damn sure it's going to last and so far, mine has. I also knew that I was going to be demanding a lot from it since when I bought it, I was running two 6870s in crossfire and I knew that I wanted to overclock all of it. It paid off because not only has it lasted almost 7 years, it's still going to be good for my upgrade to a Vega 64.

Maybe. 90% percent efficiency is 90% efficiency. Period. If your computer demands 300W, and your supply is rated at 90%, that supply will pull from the wall 333W and waste the same amount of energy (in the form of heat) regardless if the supply is a 500W supply @ 2/3 load or 1000W supply at 1/3 load. It is the exact same 33W of wasted energy.

Maybe is a good word to put there because efficiency actually varies depending on how much load you're putting on the PSU as well as its capacity. Generally speaking, efficiency tends to drop off when you're dealing with <20% of capacity or >80% of capacity with 50% typically being a sweet spot. So, a 1000w at 300w might actually have worse efficency than it would on a 500w supply with the same 80-plus rating. Big keyword is might.

Efficiency doesn't really say anything about what the PSU can output, but it say something about how much heat it's going to emit when running under load. I just wanted to point that out. I agree with just about everything you said, but I wanted to add a little bit of clarity on this particular point.

 

[Vayra86]

I am not talking like "yeee" 1000watt/1kw for that matter just like a couple of 100watts more so there will always be a headroom so you never max it out.

I like my PSUs in major overkill wattages. Its not like it costs you that much more and if you consider a quality PSU will last 10 years, there are several reasons to do so:

- Silence. PSUs that can easily supply the required power run less hot, which means idle fan or low RPM. PSU fans tend to be quite noisy, and can easily drown out case/CPU fan. Very often overlooked.
- Future plans. Who knows what I'll want for my next build, maybe SLI will get back in fashion, just to name an item that would require more power.
- Degradation. Headroom counters degradation and makes it more likely the PSU will last under sustained loads later in its life. Hitting peak load is nice for shitty OEM boxes, but not in my rig. If you scale on hitting peak load, you're doing it wrong.

Running my ~400W rig on an EVGA G2 750W. No regrets. Its way too much, but for 10-15 bucks over the price of a 'sufficient' 550-500W unit, why not? 30-40% headroom is very nice to have.

 

[ArbitraryAffection]

To the original question: Honestly I keep PSUs as long as their warranty period. That's as long as the manufacturer is confident in the unit's ability to operate. Most decent units have at least 7 years.