AMD Radeon VII Retested With Latest Drivers

[notb]

And one more point: FineWine in general refers to graceful aging of AMD cards, especially in contrast with that nVidia does with its customers.
Not about some magic dust coming into play later on or AMD purposefully crippling it at launch (the way certain other company does)

Man, it's you again on your vendetta against Nvidia. I hoped you would give up after R VII launch.

FineWine doesn't refer to "graceful aging of AMD cards". It refers to AMD not being able to provide proper drivers at the time of launch. So with Nvidia you get that extra 10% the first day, and with AMD you have to wait.

Basically, you just said that instead of getting $1000 today you'd rather get by monthly installments over a year, because then you'd have the sense of earning money.

Also, I would love to learn a way to revoke your rating rights, because you're just running around giving a -1 to anyone who doesn't share your love for Radeon chips. It undermines the already little sense that ranking system has.

 

[medi01]

5 generations ago

Remind us about 5 generations we had between 290x release and today.

 

[EarthDog]

Ive heard that the crashing was fixed!

Seems like those who were begging for a retest for performamce issues didnt leave the wine in the casket long enough.

Edit: Hilarious this gets downvoted. Another polarizing toxic fanboy goes on ignore at tpu. I wonder if there is a max amount of users one can ignore here...lol

 

[medi01]

vendetta

You just need to stop projecting. It isn't hard.

It refers to AMD not being able to provide proper drivers at the time of launch. So with Nvidia you get that extra 10% the first day, and with AMD you have to wait.

I mean, just how shameless can it become, seriously?
You got what performance upfront, when 960 beat 780Ti ($699), come again?

AMD perf improves over time, nVidia falls behind not only behind AMD, but behind own newer cards.
As card you bought gets older, NV doesn't give a flying sex act.
It needs quite a twisting to turn this into something positive.

What's rather unusual this time, is AMD being notably worse at perf/$ edge, at least with game list picked up at TP.

290x was slower than 780Ti at launch, but it cost $549 vs $699, so there goes "I get 10% at launch" again.

 

[cucker tarlson]

AMD perf improves over time, nVidia falls behind not only behind AMD, but behind own newer cards.

factually wrong.

Ive heard that the crashing was fixed!

Seems like those who were begging for a retest for performamce issues didnt leave the wine in the casket long enough.

Edit: Hilarious this gets downvoted. Another polarizing toxic fanboy goes on ignore at tpu. I wonder if there is a max amount of users one can ignore here...lol

as one guy in the adoredtv thread said, you can "speak only positively of amd or piss off".I guess that involves disproved theories too as long as they're flattering to amd or harmng to nvidia.who cares if it's a debunked theory from 5 years ago.if it's an option to leave venomous comments and binge-downvote people they're taking that opportunity.

 

[bug]

Remind us about 5 generations we had between 290x release and today.

200 series -> 300 series -> 400 series -> 500 series -> Vega

 

[cucker tarlson]

200 series -> 300 series -> 400 series -> 500 series -> Vega

Fury and another rx480 refresh (rx590) in between them.

 

[las]

You mean, when you buy 780Ti, you expect it to be beaten by 960 later on, right?


Why the hell not!
You might discover interesting things, if you check how results were changing over time in TP charts.
Fury used to beat 980Ti only at 4k at launch (and even then, barely) at 1440p it was about 10% behind:
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/R9_Fury_X/31.html

And were are we now:
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/Radeon_RX_Vega_64/31.html

From 10% behind to several % ahead. Not bad, is it?

And one more point: FineWine in general refers to graceful aging of AMD cards, especially in contrast with that nVidia does with its customers.
Not about some magic dust coming into play later on or AMD purposefully crippling it at launch (the way certain other company does)

Haha, you seem to forget that AMD called Fury X an overclockers dream, while 980 Ti performs ~20% faster out of the box for custom cards and easily gains 10-20% more performance on top of that. A fully overclocked 980 Ti custom card completely wrecks a Fury X today. 2GB more VRAM also helps with this.

Performance per watt on recent AMD top-end cards have been a disaster too. Vega 64 does not beat 1080 while pulling 100% more power.

Radeon VII is just as bad.

The only reason why 290 series aged well, was because 390 series were a rebrand and AMD kept optimizing them to try and keep up with Nvidia. Notoriously bad performance per watt on both series.

Once again, 7970 was the last good AMD top-end GPU.

 

[SIGSEGV]

Given how many new titles are coming out using Unreal Engine 4, and how much AMD is lagging behind in those titles, I'd focus on optimizations for UE4 next.

hahaha....

factually wrong.

but I hate their (NVIDIA) approach to reduce performance through a driver update to older GPU.
That's beyond my comprehension.

 

[medi01]

factually wrong.

In your green face, from page 1:

Haha, but excuses...

It isn't needed to lose your face over it, Huang is not worth it.

200 series -> 300 series -> 400 series -> 500 series -> Vega

Fury and another rx480 refresh (rx590) in between them.

200 series cannot count as "between", could they?
Should I count 500 series twice? I don't know why, but there might be green reasons.
I would count rebrands as, what they are, zero.

Now, if you'd stop twisting reality, we'd have to mention:

=> Polaris => Vega => Vega 7nm

That's all the released we had between 290x and now. On the green side of things:

=> Pascal => [.... Volta never materialized in consumer market....] => Tesla

 

[las]

In your green face, from page 1:

It isn't needed to lose your face over it, Huang is not worth it.

Excuses? It's a fact that 980 Ti wrecks Fury X today.

Every single person with knowledge of GPU's knows that 980 Ti reference performs MUCH worse than custom cards out of the box (yet even reference can make Fury X look weak post OC).

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Gigabyte/GTX_980_Ti_G1_Gaming/33.html
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/GTX_980_Ti_Lightning/26.html

35-40% OC gain in the end, over 980 Ti reference. Completely wrecks Fury X at the end of the day.

Meanwhile Fury X can gain 3% from OC, bumps up the powerusage like crazy tho. OVERCLOCKERS DREAM!!!

 

[notb]

AMD perf improves over time, nVidia falls behind not only behind AMD, but behind own newer cards.

But is this important? With Nvidia you get a lot more performance up front.
Imagine the amount of "finewine" that has to happen until Radeon VII matches Turing on efficiency. They would have to make it run on happy thoughts (which, I imagine, you have in spades).

And sure, since Nvidia optimizes for their newest architecture, an older product may become a little slower.
It would look exactly the same with AMD, if they actually changed the architecture from time to time.
But since they're still developing GCN, it's inevitable that older cards will get better over time.
We may see this change when they switch to a new architecture (if we live long enough, that is...).

As card you bought gets older, NV doesn't give a flying sex act.

They made it very good at launch. I'm fine with that. I buy every product as is. I have no guarantee of future improvements and I don't assume they will happen.

What other durable goods you buy become better during their lifetime? Why do you think this is what should be happening?
Does your shoes become better? Furniture? Cars?

When my car is recalled for repair, I'm quite mad that they haven't found it earlier. These are usually issues that shouldn't go through QC.
I imagine this is what you think: "what a lovely company it is: I already paid them for the car, but they keep fixing all these fatal flaws!".

It needs quite a twisting to turn this into something positive.

Seriously, you'll lecture me on twisting?

 

[EarthDog]

I hate their (NVIDIA) approach to reduce performance through a driver update to older GPU.
That's beyond my comprehension.

I thought this was that part that was bunked... I dont recall where but I do recall seeing this wasn't true after it was brought up years ago.

AMD has done a solid job with their drivers (though this release was quite awkward at best for some) and results do improve with time in some titles (as it does with nvidia)...not all. This is also in part due to the stagnant GCN arc that prevailed for several generations.

Anyway, I'm happy the issues from day1 are mitigated....time will tell about performance improvements..

 

[medi01]

But is this important?

In the goddamn context of "is FineWine real", IT'S THE FREAKING POINT, not simply "important".

Imagine the amount of "finewine" that has to happen until Radeon VII matches Turing on efficiency.

That doesn't make FineWine "a myth".
Last time I've checked on a rather AMD unfriendly TP, power gap was 25%, so uh, well, there is that.

But you are missing the point, for FineWine(tm) to work, it just needs to get better over time, there are no particular milestones it needs to beat.

There is no price parity between 2080 and VII, the latter comes with 3 games and twice the RAM.

And sure, since Nvidia optimizes for their newest architecture, an older product may become a little slower.

I'm glad 960 beating $699 780Ti is justifiable.

They made it very good at launch.

That's a dead horse, why not just leave it there?
290x was a bit behind, but was $549 vs $699, there was nothing "but better" about it, you paid 25%+ for about 10% more perf at launch, which gradually disappeared.

 

[notb]

but I hate their (NVIDIA) approach to reduce performance through a driver update to older GPU.
That's beyond my comprehension.

This is an accusation you could take to court and become a millionaire. Can you prove it?

 

[ValenOne]

Many on that list are AMD games. FC5,AC, and a couple more I can’t be arsed to install and confirm.

From https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/Radeon_VII/

Assassin's Creed Origins (NVIDIA Gameworks, 2017)

Battlefield V RTX (NVIDIA Gameworks, 2018)

Civilization VI (2016)

Darksiders 3 (NVIDIA Gameworks, 2018), old game remaster, where's Titan Fall 2.

Deus Ex: Mankind Divided (AMD, 2016)

Divinity Original Sin II (NVIDIA Gameworks, 2017)

Dragon Quest XI (Unreal 4 DX11, large NVIDIA bias, 2018)

F1 2018 (2018), Why? Microsoft's Forza franchise is larger than this Codemaster game.

Far Cry 5 (AMD, 2018)

Ghost Recon Wildlands (NVIDIA Gameworks, 2017), missing Tom Clancy's The Division

Grand Theft Auto V (2013)

Hellblade: Senuas Sacrif (Unreal 4 DX11, NVIDIA Gameworks)

Hitman 2

Monster Hunter World (NVIDIA Gameworks, 2018)

Middle-earth: Shadow of War (NVIDIA Gameworks, 2017)

Prey (DX11, NVIDIA Bias, 2017 )

Rainbow Six: Siege (NVIDIA Gameworks, 2015)

Shadows of Tomb Raider (NVIDIA Gameworks, 2018)

SpellForce 3 (NVIDIA Gameworks, 2017)

Strange Brigade (AMD, 2018),

The Witcher 3 (NVIDIA Gameworks, 2015)

Wolfenstein II (2017, NVIDIA Gameworks), Results different from https://www.hardwarecanucks.com/for...a-geforce-rtx-2080-ti-rtx-2080-review-17.html when certain Wolfenstein II map exceeded RTX 2080'

 

[medi01]

This is an accusation you could take to court and become a millionaire.

Nope:

Apple: Yes, we're slowing down older iPhones

From https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/Radeon_VII/

Assassin's Creed Origins (NVIDIA Gameworks, 2017)

Battlefield V RTX (NVIDIA Gameworks, 2018)

Civilization VI (2016)

Darksiders 3 (NVIDIA Gameworks, 2018), old game remaster, where's Titan Fall 2.

Deus Ex: Mankind Divided (AMD, 2016)

Divinity Original Sin II (NVIDIA Gameworks, 2017)

Dragon Quest XI (Unreal 4 DX11, large NVIDIA bias, 2018)

F1 2018 (2018), Why? Microsoft's Forza franchise is larger than this Codemaster game.

Far Cry 5 (AMD, 2018)

Ghost Recon Wildlands (NVIDIA Gameworks, 2017), missing Tom Clancy's The Division

Grand Theft Auto V (2013)

Hellblade: Senuas Sacrif (Unreal 4 DX11, NVIDIA Gameworks)

Hitman 2

Monster Hunter World (NVIDIA Gameworks, 2018)

Middle-earth: Shadow of War (NVIDIA Gameworks, 2017)

Prey (DX11, NVIDIA Bias, 2017 )

Rainbow Six: Siege (NVIDIA Gameworks, 2015)

Shadows of Tomb Raider (NVIDIA Gameworks, 2018)

SpellForce 3 (NVIDIA Gameworks, 2017)

Strange Brigade (AMD, 2018),

The Witcher 3 (NVIDIA Gameworks, 2015)

Wolfenstein II (2017, NVIDIA Gameworks), Results different from https://www.hardwarecanucks.com/for...a-geforce-rtx-2080-ti-rtx-2080-review-17.html when certain Wolfenstein II map exceeded RTX 2080'

I colored things.
and wow

From https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/Radeon_VII/

Assassin's Creed Origins (NVIDIA Gameworks, 2017)

Battlefield V RTX (NVIDIA Gameworks, 2018)

Civilization VI (2016)

Darksiders 3 (NVIDIA Gameworks, 2018), old game remaster, where's Titan Fall 2.

Deus Ex: Mankind Divided (AMD, 2016)

Divinity Original Sin II (NVIDIA Gameworks, 2017)

Dragon Quest XI (Unreal 4 DX11, large NVIDIA bias, 2018)

F1 2018 (2018), Why? Microsoft's Forza franchise is larger than this Codemaster game.

Far Cry 5 (AMD, 2018)

Ghost Recon Wildlands (NVIDIA Gameworks, 2017), missing Tom Clancy's The Division

Grand Theft Auto V (2013)

Hellblade: Senuas Sacrif (Unreal 4 DX11, NVIDIA Gameworks)

Hitman 2

Monster Hunter World (NVIDIA Gameworks, 2018)

Middle-earth: Shadow of War (NVIDIA Gameworks, 2017)

Prey (DX11, NVIDIA Bias, 2017 )

Rainbow Six: Siege (NVIDIA Gameworks, 2015)

Shadows of Tomb Raider (NVIDIA Gameworks, 2018)

SpellForce 3 (NVIDIA Gameworks, 2017)

Strange Brigade (AMD, 2018),

The Witcher 3 (NVIDIA Gameworks, 2015)

Wolfenstein II (2017, NVIDIA Gameworks), Results different from https://www.hardwarecanucks.com/for...a-geforce-rtx-2080-ti-rtx-2080-review-17.html when certain Wolfenstein II map exceeded RTX 2080'

I colored things.
And wow.

Isn't Hitman an AMD title though?

 

[cucker tarlson]

In your green face, from page 1:

great.you've successfully proved that changing the testing suite changes the result.great sleuthing.

and 980ti is still a faster card

by 6% in pcgh's review (and this is stock)

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Radeon-VII-Grafikkarte-268194/Tests/Benchmark-Review-1274185/2/

by even more in computerbase ranglist-no 980ti here but Fury X does very poorly

https://www.computerbase.de/thema/grafikkarte/rangliste/

also,calm down,you're having a fanboy tantrum all over this thread.

 

[medi01]

I'm too small a person to admit I was wrong....

No problem.

by 6% in pcgh's review

In FineWine discussion that doesn't matter, contrast to previous pcgh results does.

 

[notb]

I'm glad 960 beating $699 780Ti is justifiable.

Well, after a product is launched, one company starts to develop new, much faster successor and the other company starts to think how the already launched product works.
It's good we have a choice, right?

But I agree with you in this case: Maxwell was awesome.

290x was a bit behind, but was $549 vs $699, there was nothing "but better" about it, you paid 25%+ for about 10% more perf at launch, which gradually disappeared.

So what? I will replace the card at some point. I'll get a new one with a new "10% more performance at launch". I will keep having faster cards.

And you generally pay more (in %) than the performance difference is. It has to be that way, because the market just wouldn't work (convergence).

 

[cucker tarlson]

No problem.

what are you even doing ? and why ?

 

[londiste]

Imagine the amount of "finewine" that has to happen until Radeon VII matches Turing on efficiency. They would have to make it run on happy thoughts

It kind of does, when undervolted. The problem is that Radeon VII is a full process node ahead. Also, there is probably a reason AMD overvolts things out-of-box.
I don't think I have ever seen an attempt to seriously undervolt a Turing GPU for comparison though.

Isn't Hitman an AMD title though?

Glacier engine used to favor AMD a lot back in Absolution and initially in Hitman, it was one of AMD's DX12 showcases. Eventually, the results pretty much evened out in DX12. Not sure about DX11. When developing Hitman 2 they dropped DX12 renderer and kept going with DX11.

 

[jabbadap]

Heh that escalated quickly and I don't have any popcorn ...

So drivers are stable now, good. How is the noise @W1zzard any improvements on that department? I.E. changes in fan profile etc.

 

[las]

Nothing escalated, everyone can see that 980 Ti beats Fury X with ease, hence no Fine Wine here.

Trying to prove that Fury X can perform on par with a 980 Ti reference was fun tho. Remember the 30-40% OC headroom next time.

I'm out xD

 

[trog100]

it seems to me that nvidea make better graphics card than amd which leaves those in camp having a difficult time justifying exactly why they are in red camp..

ether way all this toxicity is getting rather boring..

trog