EVGA NU Audio Sound Card

[W1zzard]

Inle could you give us a high res Pic of the PCB with out the PCB shielding?

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/EVGA/NU_Audio_Card_Preview/4.html

 

[user112]

the purpose of a sound card should be to add the extra jacks needed to run surrond sound directly from pc speakers+subwoofer not connect the expensive card to a more expensive receiver.

 

[bug]

the purpose of a sound card should be to add the extra jacks needed to run surrond sound directly from pc speakers+subwoofer not connect the expensive card to a more expensive receiver.

You're opening up a can of worms here.
You can't get high quality sound from an electrical noisy enclosure, no matter how expensive your sound card is (you can if you get lucky or if you're old enough, but I cinsider these special cases). The best choice will always be to use a digital out.
As the user becomes more demanding, their sound setup goes: onboard sound + plastic speakers -> dedicated sound card + better plastic speakers -> onboard or (imho) unnecessarily expensive sound card + above average speakers.
Regardless of the progression above, what each individual considers "the best" setup is a never ending discussion.

 

[user112]

no worms exist here because it's not hard to EMI-sheild devices and cables 100% from outside interference. because you can create this thing called a faraday cage around the card. we even have special films and tapes with EMI-sheilding properties in this day and age.

 

[Mescalamba]

no worms exist here because it's not hard to EMI-sheild devices and cables 100% from outside interference. because you can create this thing called a faraday cage around the card. we even have special films and tapes with EMI-sheilding properties in this day and age.

Could probably re-use that metal shield it already has? Or am I wrong? (as base for shielding)

 

[bug]

no worms exist here because it's not hard to EMI-sheild devices and cables 100% from outside interference. because you can create this thing called a faraday cage around the card. we even have special films and tapes with EMI-sheilding properties in this day and age.

Yeah, well, you can hit nails on the head with a microscope, too. Doesn't mean you're doing it the easy way

 

[Ferrum Master]

Yeah, well, you can hit nails on the head with a microscope, too. Doesn't mean you're doing it the easy way

You are exaggerating. It is not that difficult to design a card inside a PC. Look up at the measurements, noise floor. Can you see any bad things? I compared external vs internal device with similar DAC. If your assembled hardware is defective and doesn't comply with EN 55022 blame yourself. The more if you live near ar radio tower, the heck even a rouge phone wall charger near even your dedicated interfaces will suffer, You have to do checkup of your gear, no matter if its inside or outside the case, same rules apply for both. Actually external devices also induct a loop and gimp on proper multilayer board design often, it doesn't apply as rule that they all are better. I wonder during early years people were happy using EMU cards, and some still use, also Lynx2 for professional needs. Their measurements using spectrum analyzers were fine. I haven't seen on the scope anything alien in the noise floor also unless the device is defective, the limiting factor is the DAC implementation, experience and targeted cost. It is much easier to develop for newer dac like ESS as they reside even more robust internal PSRR and you can gimp on external parts, and that's the reason they appear already on motherboards. They are very immune to your stated problems, that was a serious issue years before. Maybe you can share your experience with examples.

Because respectable manufacturers states specs of their devices also noise floor(the new or shady ones hide it, look at the Kingston Mic at front page news, they hide most important parameters, look up at the Blue and there they are I wonder why lol). If it would suck in something, someone for sure would file an class action suit for claiming false advertising.

 

[bug]

@Ferrum Master It's hard to make 100% sure your card will not pick up noise in any PC setup. A rogue wire or something is all it takes. So yeah, it can be done, but it's just not the easy route.
I just got myself a Dragonfly Red instead

 

[Ferrum Master]

@Ferrum Master It's hard to make 100% sure your card will not pick up noise in any PC setup. A rogue wire or something is all it takes. So yeah, it can be done, but it's just not the easy route.
I just got myself a Dragonfly Red instead

Write a review about it... why not?

Wires are fine, just you have to use proper one for each task. Inductors also never hurt... I use them a lot. Thing is as usual - everything made by man can be broken. You can even manage to oscillate a PA system in a dedicated rack mount. Laptops also aren't the holy grail, chargers are very HF noisy, also the due to lack of space their power supply circuitry doesn't have much space to filter out voltages from SMPS caused noises, also more filtering = more power consumption and for a mobile device the decision goes to the other side towards economy, there are trade offs in every decision we make especially when we create something. USB is really also a double edged sword, seldom who fully isolates the bus from the PC, but some do. Using mainstream parts aimed for the masses takes its toll, why server/military/medical grade parts exist even in the first place? If you really are a professional you will find your solution and someone will help from the industry for sure.

If the any PC setup actually doesn't comply with the regulations by PCI-SIG, EN 55022 CISPR 22, oh well... it sucks. But I usually test things out, measure, if not, within the time of two weeks I have the right to return the merch simple as that. But PC component quality is a major theme for another thread, let's not do it here, it is known that certain manufacturers are getting worse and worse.

I really suggest you Henry W. Ott books. EMI Troubleshooting Cookbook for Product Designers and Noise Reduction Techniques in Electronic Systems(Electromagnetic Compatibility Engineering(depends on the year released) to quite the science fiction talk and back to the job how it is done... for years. It ain't something that new.

 

[Zubasa]

What I don't understand is why they keep putting a front audio header on these cards.
Connecting to the front of the case with the shitty case cable defeats the purpose of these cards.
All you get are the electrical noise from what ever else is around.

 

[Ferrum Master]

What I don't understand is why they keep putting a front audio header on these cards.
Connecting to the front of the case with the shitty case cable defeats the purpose of these cards.
All you get are the electrical noise from what ever else is around.

I don't know. In my understanding it is just idiotism. Clutter. If you really wish the function, there is a USB there. I did a mod for a fractal case, it had enough room to solder a USB hub and share USB to a simple sound interface. And voila, you have the header, no clutter with wires, just USB, the mod costs around 5$

 

[Dumbassrevealer]

Here is a measurement of Nu Audio taken on line out taken with a Audio Precision APx555 and a little bit of care with cables etc. Simply having the RMAA loopback wires droop onto the mains inlet can spoil your measurement: -120dB is one millionth of the audio signal signal, -150dB is 1/31,000,000th of the audio signal. So, you can imagine how careful you have to be to make meaningful measurements. It's also important to disable the RGB lighting if you wan the lowest noise performance from the card. The PSU is a Seasonic Prime Ultra Titanium, but the mobo, especially some power saving modes will also generate noise, more than the PSU more often than not.

It depends what you want, the ultimate audiophile experience, something that just sounds good, or not bother with any special setup measures or PC components. Whichever the case, you have accept your own personal set of compromises.

What I don't understand is why they keep putting a front audio header on these cards.
Connecting to the front of the case with the shitty case cable defeats the purpose of these cards.
All you get are the electrical noise from what ever else is around.

If there was no header people would complain just as much about that, there is no way to win.

 

[Ferrum Master]

Simply having the RMAA loopback wires droop onto the mains inlet can spoil your measurement:

Idealizing measurement conditions showing the card's capability to coop with oscillation issues and disabling RGB?? Get a life man, build a proper product next time.

 

[Dumbassrevealer]

Groan...What are you talking about 'oscillation issues'? You mean EM susceptibility?

Moving wires away from a source of uncontrolled noise is idealising the test conditions is it? Same as disabling RGB? The option is there in the GUI in case you want to use it to gain a few dB of noise floor.

Resorting to ill informed, unsubstantiated jibes is not helping anyone here. And, incidentally, I have no intention of entering a flame war with you either, the result is there, you can take it or leave it, it's what the card is capable of - facts Ferrum, not waffle.

If you can't achieve what I have, and others have with real test equipment, then you should check your system and test methodology, not to start chucking mud.

 

[Ferrum Master]

Groan...What are you talking about 'oscillation issues'? You mean EM susceptibility?

I was basing on what the reviewer saw. R channel is going haywire. What can you add about it? The card is a dud for him?, or the PWM driver screws the R channel(it looks like oscillation or interference pick your poison)? Did I say something wrong? EM is the biggest concern in a PC sound card. Also how the device interacts with consumer devices. Some are more prone to parasitic capacities some not.

Moving away from a source? Cherry picking using things that average users doesn't do? Disabling power saving, sure it does create hellish noise as the base VRM generators change frequency and the concert is much quiet. Using a proper PSU is fine to me, yeah. What did you else? Used a PCIe extender and measured the card away form the PC case also? I also do that while fixing them. You are showing results with 150dB what kinda that proves what? It works well in a isolated RF cradle? I have those also. The card doesn't work in real time usage scenario? So while gaming let them eat noise? Nobody will notice it either way.

I am not that cuckoo to buy it to give you facts, I cannot give you that. Sorry. I have the equipment to measure it for sure. Was it EM, was it resistor thermal noise, poor PCB design, ground loops, not enough power rail filtering, pick your favorite. Just tell not to post dud results in the review and claim everything is fine and dandy, because obviously it is not.

 

[Dumbassrevealer]

The review, was positive was it not? Editors Choice? I'm not the cuckoo here, Ferrum, the guy wants to kick Inle's eggs out of the nest to replace them with his own.

And, your input is based purely on opinion. And, sadly for you, your cynical way here has poisoned whatever you say about it in future. You didn't offer any advice about how to optimise a sound card, any sound card, it is just pure cynicism.

The RMAA results were good, and, any issues that Inle experience, or you did from your side of the monitor, do we have objective evidence that, in exactly the same setup, would not be experienced by another card from a different manufacturer, or, that by some optimisation of setup could not be eliminated? Your input here could have been constructive, but it wasn't.

My input is objective, that the Nu Audio card is capable of exemplary performance. And, Inle's experience, is that, regardless of what you take issue with, he found the card to sound excellent. That is what the average customer is buying the card for.

You show a GE valve box on your ID, do you not? Why not not Euler's perfect identity? Maybe because you know that there is more to sound than meets the eye anyway?

Indeed, it's possible to get more out of this card by BIOS settings, by many routes. The same is true of a GPU. What are we to do? Test Lamborghini cars on how good they are at taking shopping from the supermarket because that's your preferred test criteria? Why should we limit ourselves to your worldview?

In any case, the 'average user' RMAA result was 'Excellent'. The truth is, that this card can go way, way beyond that as I showed. Some people want to take the time, some don't. It's their choice to buy what suits them best.

 

[Ferrum Master]

RMAA result was 'Excellent'. The truth is, that this card can go way, way beyond that as I showed. Some people want to take the time, some don't. It's their choice to buy what suits them best.

You did a test using a APx555 , get a life man, now you say RMAA says it is fine. Your the cuckoo one for sure... make a better card next time. I showed my results making the same measuring scheme.

You cannot deny the fact, the charts were showing a hardware error.

So if i once made a tube Amp, now I am a dork? The moto is the message I liked to show, ain't it? Fix your product.

 

[Dumbassrevealer]

What are you talking about? I need a life because I have an APx555?

And you don't know how to set up and test an audio product? Is that my fault?

 

[Ferrum Master]

What are you talking about? I need a life because I have an APx555?

And you don't know how to set up and test an audio product? Is that my fault?

So basically you are attacking me about measurements, I didn't do, then make comments about me basing on my avatar.

This product is a dud. Broken or poorly designed, or both. I won't reply further, people can read everything them self.

 

[Dumbassrevealer]

I posted my alternative result, taken on APx555 rather than loopback using RMAA. You attacked me about it, remember?

I would have liked to enter a conversation about optimising audio in the PC environment, so everyone can benefit. You prevented that from happening, which is a shame, although not the end of the world. Unfortunately stuff like this happens all the time on forums, which is what limits their usefulness to the lowest common denominator I suppose.

About your avatar. No attack intended there, I thought that someone who knew about tubes would know about audio outside of RMAA, simple as that.

Indeed, this is a waste of time. I wish you good luck in the future.

 

[Ferrum Master]

You prevented that from happening, which is a shame, although not the end of the world.

You have no idea actually that in the result you have made such a bad press about this cards incapability to operate in normal conditions. And everyone can now read about it. Basically you created a external USB DAC, and putting in a PC it really doesn't work by specs, as it is prone to EMI as the design experience is lacking, you have you use it outside the PC. It is an absurd product then. Buy an external DAC.

Best wishes, case closed.

 

[Dumbassrevealer]

You might want to wipe the vitriol off your keyboard and monitor before it corrodes it.

Anyway, good luck in your future ventures.

 

[Mescalamba]

You have no idea actually that in the result you have made such a bad press about this cards incapability to operate in normal conditions. And everyone can now read about it. Basically you created a external USB DAC, and putting in a PC it really doesn't work by specs, as it is prone to EMI as the design experience is lacking, you have you use it outside the PC. It is an absurd product then. Buy an external DAC.

Best wishes, case closed.

Sadly, you are the not-so-clever person here.

You see, when someone (like me) buys a high end soundcard, they do everything in their power to making it perform in best possible ways.

Which means..

1) I dont have RGB at all, anywhere

2) it is sitting carefully far away from anything that could even remotely cause some issues

3) I have decent PSU, next time I get even better one (well I have one nice SeaSonic on order already)

And ofc decent pair of cans to go with it, plus all SW solutions required to make it perform.

For sure my old STX does perform really well. It could maybe do about same even without it, but I do want it to perform best. Yea and maybe some OP-AMP switched..

You are that kind of guy, that buys top end soundcard and then uses default Windows Media Player to play music.

 

[Ferrum Master]

Sadly, you are the not-so-clever person here.

You see, when someone (like me) buys a high end soundcard, they do everything in their power to making it perform in best possible ways.

Which means..

1) I dont have RGB at all, anywhere

2) it is sitting carefully far away from anything that could even remotely cause some issues

3) I have decent PSU, next time I get even better one (well I have one nice SeaSonic on order already)

And ofc decent pair of cans to go with it, plus all SW solutions required to make it perform.

For sure my old STX does perform really well. It could maybe do about same even without it, but I do want it to perform best. Yea and maybe some OP-AMP switched..

You are that kind of guy, that buys top end soundcard and then uses default Windows Media Player to play music.

For sure. I am totally with you there. Maybe also try to read from the start and then spread some toxicity?

 

[Dumbassrevealer]

Ferrum, it's you who has been toxifying this thread like an angry crop sprayer.

No one wants to play your game anymore.

Calm down, think rationally, and start talking like an engineer. Solve problems objectively, and listen to what people are saying.

I am not your enemy Ferrum.