AMD Ryzen 9 3000 is a 16-core Socket AM4 Beast

[efikkan]

Exactly. But who then gives you the right to go and call that person a liar and a cheat? Feel free to take it with a boatload of salt, say that you don't believe it's real, but you can't call someone a liar if you don't have the facts to prove them wrong. This is in part with what's wrong with the internet.

I'm sorry I can't share the information I have, but I've been trying to tell all the naysayers in this thread that he's not way off, in fact the details he released in December are very close to what will launch. I don't understand why that is so impossible to comprehend.

I'm going to give you a last chance to read my posts and apologize for your adolescent behavior. Even if I were wrong, there is no excuse for behaving like this, and if I were, any grown up should be able to make a serious argument for their case.

We're not going to descend into a philosophical discussion about truth really is here, but any reasonable person understands the distinction between speculation and fact. Just like no-one can know the outcome of a soccer match before it's played, but do a qualified guess, and even be right, it still doesn't change the fact that the result was not known in advance.

Please keep this discussion on topic from now on.

Until the final specs are actually set, AMD, Nvidia and Intel operate with targets, and these are ranges, not specific clock speeds and exact prices, since this depends on the final yields. This is set after the final stepping has gone through qualification. There are many leaks that can contain true information, like bigger architectural changes etc., but no-one can know the final clocks/price etc. until they are set, and you can use this knowledge to discredit many false "leaks". False leaks will accelerate disappointment when they eventually come crushing down.

Oh, XMP will work, that much is guaranteed. You just need to pair the sticks with a mobo that can also run them at those speeds.

The sticks are guaranteed, but not the motherboard or the memory controller. Many Skylake/Kaby Lake CPUs struggle to remain over 3000 MHz over time.

 

[TheLostSwede]

My apologies, misunderstanding on my side.

Back to the discussion then. Are there official memory supported speeds for the Ryzen 3000 series? As far as i have seen AMD was always a little ahead of Intel concerning officially supported memory speeds. My guess would be DDR4 3200 support since the Ryzen 2000s have 2933 support.

I'm sure there will be, I don't know that number yet. However, it will work with much faster memory than that this time around.
Apparently AMD is kind of crap when it comes to memory validation, they mostly leave that up to the motherboard makers.
So there's at least a detail that those of you considering getting Ryzen 3000 should consider, get memory that's on QVL, as with current boards, as those modules should work the best, anything else is down to luck.

 

[bug]

Some days it feels like it.

Oh, I have, trust me. Look at when I joined here though. I've known the owner of this site since before it started. In fact, I told him I thought the name was a bit pants...

Isn't that kind of the point of leaks, they can't really be verified. Again, not surprised, but I don't get the continuous counter arguments when someone is trying to let you know that they know something you don't and maybe you should just sit this one out.
I'm trying my best to share some details here, without getting people in trouble. At least I know what I will be spending my money on later this year.

So you're saying I could get something noticeably better than my 6600k for $300 or less?

 

[TheLostSwede]

I'm going to give you a last chance to read my posts and apologize for your adolescent behavior. Even if I were wrong, there is no excuse for behaving like this, and if I were, any grown up should be able to make a serious argument for their case.

We're not going to descend into a philosophical discussion about truth really is here, but any reasonable person understands the distinction between speculation and fact. Just like no-one can know the outcome of a soccer match before it's played, but do a qualified guess, and even be right, it still doesn't change the fact that the result was not known in advance.

Please keep this discussion on topic from now on.

Until the final specs are actually set, AMD, Nvidia and Intel operate with targets, and these are ranges, not specific clock speeds and exact prices, since this depends on the final yields. This is set after the final stepping has gone through qualification. There are many leaks that can contain true information, like bigger architectural changes etc., but no-one can know the final clocks/price etc. until they are set, and you can use this knowledge to discredit many false "leaks". False leaks will accelerate disappointment when they eventually come crushing down.


The sticks are guaranteed, but not the motherboard or the memory controller. Many Skylake/Kaby Lake CPUs struggle to remain over 3000 MHz over time.

I should apologise to you?
You're the one going around doing the name calling. You're the one making a fool of yourself. You've already decided on your point of view and you have no intention of changing that. So what happens when the products launch and it turns out that you're wrong? Are you going to apologise to everyone you've called a liar then?

You just keep going back to the same bad logic that you have decided in your head is the only way things can be.
Once again, Ryzen 3000 was supposed to launch sometime after CES, say February/March, but was delayed due to the X570 chipset and motherboards not being ready for prime time. So obviously AMD would have already worked out all the CPU details by December and was ready to make an initial announcement at CES and tell their customers about pricing, etc. at the show. This seems to be an impossible concept for you to grasp, why?

Until you can prove that his information is false, you can't say that. I'm trying to tell you that he's within spitting distance. No more than 5-10% here or there. Obviously you don't care about someone trying to confirm things either, as who am I? How can I possibly know anything about this, I'm just some dude on a forum.

So you're saying I could get something noticeably better than my 6600k for $300 or less?

Depends on how many cores you want...

 

[Aerpoweron]

So you're saying I could get something noticeably better than my 6600k for $300 or less?

Define what "better" means for you.

For pure gaming i don't think you will notice anything, especially with a 60Hz monitor. But if you stream and play i guess there will be a reasonably priced 6 or 8 core Ryzen 3000 for you

 

[eidairaman1]

How to undermine a product 101: overhype it, to get dissapponted later.

16 cores is a given, 5Ghz not at all.


That's getting high clocks Prescott ways.

43 idle, 55 gaming, worst case power virus 75

Define what "better" means for you.

For pure gaming i don't think you will notice anything, especially with a 60Hz monitor. But if you stream and play i guess there will be a reasonably priced 6 or 8 core Ryzen 3000 for you

Considering Ryzen 1000 and 2000 did it just fine

 

[medi01]

43 idle, 55 gaming, worst case power virus 75

That's not the point (and it tells very little about actual performance). It was built for high clocks (aiming at even higher clocks) to make up for IPC lower than previous gen.

 

[storm-chaser]

Until the final specs are actually set, AMD, Nvidia and Intel operate with targets, and these are ranges, not specific clock speeds and exact prices, since this depends on the final yields. This is set after the final stepping has gone through qualification. There are many leaks that can contain true information, like bigger architectural changes etc., but no-one can know the final clocks/price etc. until they are set, and you can use this knowledge to discredit many false "leaks". False leaks will accelerate disappointment when they eventually come crushing down.

Are you trying to make the claim that AMD doesn't even know what the final clocks will be? Like AMD is there rolling the dice crossing fingers and just hoping for 5.0Ghz... praying for 5.0Ghz... And I'm sure precision boost operates in much the same way? Luck of the draw with qualification, "final stepping" and all? Since AMD is operating in "ranges" with no set goals, lol. AMD might as well open casinos instead of chip fab plants with this kind of logic.

 

[Shatun_Bear]

Come on.
His videos, on top of being free, are at around 50k-ish views typically, I doubt one could get non-negligable income from that.

I meant through Patreon, which is what 'supports' him to make the videos. He gets $2300 a month, which is a decent wage in itself. So whatever you say, he has to be held to some standards as people are paying for this stuff.

 

[eidairaman1]

Time to wait till the parts arrive.

 

[Shatun_Bear]

Are you trying to make the claim that AMD doesn't even know what the final clocks will be? Like AMD is there rolling the dice crossing fingers and just hoping for 5.0Ghz... praying for 5.0Ghz... And I'm sure precision boost operates in much the same way? Luck of the draw with qualification, "final stepping" and all? Since AMD is operating in "ranges" with no set goals, lol. AMD might as well open casinos instead of chip fab plants with this kind of logic.

It's a new process node, their first CPU on 7nm, of course they absolutely do not know what final clocks will be until relatively close to launch. They will have targets and ranges of course, but like the guy above stated, that's not what the Adored charlatan claimed in his vids, hence the hype and excitement he created. I mean he could have claimed 'AMD are targetting 4.5-4.8Ghz boost' back in Dec last year, which would have been believable instead of exact clocks and prices 8 months before release.

 

[storm-chaser]

Sure I get the argument it's like GM can produce the Corvette ZR1 but until it's track tested, the top speed remains unknown. Unless they pre program a limiter into the ECU.

Sure, binning takes place near the end of production, but targets are there long in advance.

 

[Jism]

Are you trying to make the claim that AMD doesn't even know what the final clocks will be? Like AMD is there rolling the dice crossing fingers and just hoping for 5.0Ghz... praying for 5.0Ghz... And I'm sure precision boost operates in much the same way? Luck of the draw with qualification, "final stepping" and all? Since AMD is operating in "ranges" with no set goals, lol. AMD might as well open casinos instead of chip fab plants with this kind of logic.

Before they actualise the chips design onto a wafer they do have certain expectations and TSMC proberly will show them what ranges to expect. It's not like they are doing a gamble like this before ramping up a design to be converted into a working CPU.

The reason why the 2700x and such never passed 4.4GHz (if you where lucky) is purely due to the silicon's limitation. They have opted for a power efficient chip and thats what they got. They knew upon the 2nd revision what to aim for and how to get the clocks up. Add some sauce of efficiency on it and you can pack alot more cores then the first generation without exceeding the power enveloppe.

This looks very promissing, as my 2700x is not even at my system for - 3 months or so, and already releasing a big tank with 16 cores and 32 threads. Right now i'm very saturated

 

[EarthDog]

I think many people would be surprised at how much an initial goal changes once the chips are cut and yields figured out with all their parameters for each SKU in place. While it isn't night and day, its still a bit premature, unless you are in the know, to guess at it. That said, by now, surely they have an idea of where the plinko chip falls.... most of us however, have no idea where exactly that will be.

 

[storm-chaser]

In theory, as the manufacturing process is improved with every nm jump, we should see less and less of a need for binning as time goes forward. Is that correct?

Put it another way, will we get to a point where manufacturing process is so good that binning will become a thing of the past?

 

[efikkan]

In theory, as the manufacturing process is improved with every nm jump, we should see less and less of a need for binning as time goes forward. Is that correct?

Put it another way, will we get to a point where manufacturing process is so good that binning will become a thing of the past?

No, quite to the contrary. With smaller and more advanced nodes leakage and small defects become a larger problem.
Binning is very much needed, as the quality of the chips are not consistent.

Also, each node jump have changes in materials, sizes of gates, wires etc. This needs more tweaking and calibration for the next nodes.

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

So just saying; manage your expectations.

It’s not about my expectations. AMD needs 5.0GHz+ or much better IPC or they won’t be keeping up with Intel. I still think it’s totally possible and that first edition Zen is limited architecturally to current clocks. I think the latest snippet that we’ve seen about Zen 2 managing high-speed memory differently might be a clue (if true). Looks like IF has been holding back faster DRAM, so it’s quite possible IF was failing the CCX when it was clocked higher. There’s a reason they went to chiplets, and I think it was to solve clock scaling. What AMD actually does doesn’t rally matter that much to me, I’m just having fun speculating about the engineering.

 

[TheMadDutchDude]

I am getting more and more itchy to grab a new CPU and board...

I have some A2 B-die here that should be good for 4500+ MHz with relative ease; so I'll be looking to see what it can do.

 

[Frick]

It's comical, the true fanboys don't get called out, yet, people that have at least a half a clue (in this case more, a full clue) are called fanboys. TPU members are AMAZING!

It just shows TPu is just regular and to be honest pretty low level computer dudes (with a bunch of exceptions of course), and because they're avarage dudes from the streets fact and opinion are interchangeable and "knowledge" is an almost ethereal term and it is distrusted. It's not a TPU problem. "I reject your reality and substitute my own" is a fun catchphrase, but I doubt it was ever meant to be a moral philosophy you actually should adhere to.

And technically everything about Zen 2 is rumor, up to the point of reviews hitting the homes of avarage computer dudes, the unwashed streets of Soho (or whereever gangs of computer dudes roam).



Anywhoo. Me I'm mostly interested in the sub €200 market. I've started the process of ripping my DVD's and my little Haswell i3 is definitely showing its age. High end parts are fun and all but .. eh.

 

[Shatun_Bear]

Once again, Ryzen 3000 was supposed to launch sometime after CES, say February/March, but was delayed due to the X570 chipset and motherboards not being ready for prime time. So obviously AMD would have already worked out all the CPU details by December and was ready to make an initial announcement at CES and tell their customers about pricing, etc. at the show. This seems to be an impossible concept for you to grasp, why?

Hold on, so are you claiming that Ryzen 3000 CPUs were ready to hit retail in February (or March), the month when Lisa Su demonstrated an engineering sample at CES and claimed they are still working on increasing performance? Because this sounds like total BS as well.

I mean it is very simple. If word from the horses mouth is 'we're still in engineering sample stage' then that is a timeline you'd expect for a launch several months later. Yet here we have a random poster on the internet claiming chips were actually ready to hit retail whilst Su was standing on stage indicating the opposite?! Because you claim the launch was only delayed by the mobos.

Please tell me I have read your claims wrong.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Hold on, so are you claiming that Ryzen 3000 CPUs were ready to hit retail in February (or March), the month when Lisa Su demonstrated an engineering sample at CES and claimed they are still working on increasing performance? Because this sounds like total BS as well.

I mean it is very simple. If word from the horses mouth is 'we're still in engineering sample stage' then that is a timeline you'd expect for a launch several months later. Yet here we have a random poster on the internet claiming chips were actually ready to hit retail whilst Su was standing on stage indicating the opposite?! Because you claim the launch was only delayed by the mobos.

Please tell me I have read your claims wrong.

No, that's not what I'm claiming. What I'm saying is, that was the original plan. However, something clearly went pear shaped and at least one of the issues was the lack of chipset. AMD actually considered launching the CPUs without a new chipset.

It's indeed very simple, if in December they'd set out the planned SKU and pricing, but had a change of heart, they could easily change the story at CES. It's not hard to do, simply go up on stage and say, hey, here's an engineer sample, rather than saying hey, here's our new chip which will launch in a couple of months. That's not very hard to do.

I didn't claim it was only the motherboards, that's the part of the story I know. If there's more to it, then it's information I don't have.

You really like to twist and turn things, no? But whatever, you're not in the industry, so you don't know what's been going, nor what's going on.

And technically everything about Zen 2 is rumor, up to the point of reviews hitting the homes of avarage computer dudes, the unwashed streets of Soho (or whereever gangs of computer dudes roam).

It used to be Tottenham Court Road, Soho was a bit too scary for the computer dudes, but actually just a stones throw away...
Used to work in that neighbourhood, twice in fact. Sadly there aren't much left of interest, as most of the electrics and computer shops are closed. I didn't work in a shop though.

 

[Shatun_Bear]

No, that's not what I'm claiming. What I'm saying is, that was the original plan. However, something clearly went pear shaped and at least one of the issues was the lack of chipset. AMD actually considered launching the CPUs without a new chipset.

It's indeed very simple, if in December they'd set out the planned SKU and pricing, but had a change of heart, they could easily change the story at CES. It's not hard to do, simply go up on stage and say, hey, here's an engineer sample, rather than saying hey, here's our new chip which will launch in a couple of months. That's not very hard to do.

I didn't claim it was only the motherboards, that's the part of the story I know. If there's more to it, then it's information I don't have.

You really like to twist and turn things, no? But whatever, you're not in the industry, so you don't know what's been going, nor what's going on.

So now you're changing your story? I think this is all a big wind up to you.

You first claimed Ryzen 3000 was intended to launch in Feb/March but AMD held back because of mobo chipset delay. Then it was pointed out to you Lisa Su could only show an early engineering sample in Feb, your window for the intended launch. So any launch then, intended or otherwise, was impossible.

So now you're saying actually something went 'pear shaped' with the CPUs themselves to scupper these plans.

So in this world of fiction of yours, AMD had set out every Ryzen CPU and APU in December with all the base/boost clocks and prices for the complete line-up, which explains your undying belief in AdoredTV's fake chart, as these CPUs were ready to release in Feb/March. But sometime between Dec and Feb, these plans all went pear shaped shaped so Lisa Su was asked to stand up on stage at CES and pretend that the CPUs are all in eng. sample stage still, and will launch 'summer 2019' now instead.

I mean just read that back to yourself and ponder whether it sounds plausible considering there were little or no Zen 2 engineering samples before Dec 2018. If launch was planned for Feb/March we would have seen several engineering samples in September, October or earlier.

 

[TheLostSwede]

So now you're changing your story? I think this is all a big wind up to you.

You first claimed Ryzen 3000 was intended to launch in Feb/March but AMD held back because of mobo chipset delay. Then it was pointed out to you Lisa Su could only show an early engineering sample in Feb, your window for the intended launch. So any launch then, intended or otherwise, was impossible.

So now you're saying actually something went 'pear shaped' with the CPUs themselves to scupper these plans.

So in this world of fiction of yours, AMD had set out every Ryzen CPU and APU in December with all the base/boost clocks and prices for the complete line-up, which explains your undying belief in AdoredTV's fake chart, as these CPUs were ready to release in Feb/March. But sometime between Dec and Feb, these plans all went pear shaped shaped so Lisa Su was asked to stand up on stage at CES and pretend that the CPUs are all in eng. sample stage still, and will launch 'summer 2019' now instead.

I mean just read that back to yourself and ponder whether it sounds plausible considering there were little or no Zen 2 engineering samples before Dec 2018. If launch was planned for Feb/March we would have seen several engineering samples in September, October or earlier.

Huh, I didn't change anything, you're clearly reading things whichever way you want.

Lisa Su showed the sample in early January, CES is usually in the first or second week of January, not February. So who's making crap up now?
Again, read what I wrote, it's easy to call anything an engineering sample, if you have never shown i to anyone outside the company before, no?

I never said something went pear shaped with the CPUs, again, your interpretation. I said "something clearly went pear shaped and at least one of the issues was the lack of chipset" which if you could read, implies that there might have been other issues than the lack of the chipset, but I don't know if this is/was the case or not.

I never mentioned the APUs, I have no knowledge about them. Please stop trying to add things in to the discussion that I have not talked about.
I also never said I have undying belief in AdoredTV's charts. I had information about Ryzen 3000 before he posted his chart. I can't share that information here though, since that might cause issues for people I'm friends with and I don't do that to friends. I have a file on my desktop from the 4th of October 2018 with full chipset specs for X570. I can share that once we pass Computex if you'd like.
I have no reason to rely on on AdoredTV, I work in the tech industry and have done for most of my life, I have my own connections and sources.

I don't know what you do for a living, but tell me something, plans never change in your job? I don't know how many times plans have changed in my various jobs that I've had since I started working. Products are delayed last minute, product specs change last minute, etc. Shit, I worked for a company that launched a product on Kickstarter, two months before the planned shipping date and with a finished product, we scrapped it, as it was crap and started over from scratch and delayed everything six months, although it ended up being a year in the end due to various reason. So yes, I do believe AMD did exactly this. Something changed in their plans and they changed the presentation at CES accordingly.

Considering how late the motherboard makers got CPU samples for Ryzen 1000, yes, it's very plausible. In fact, they only got their final ES samples this past week. AMD did a tour of the board makers in Taiwan this week and handed out samples and did some testing with the board makers. Can I prove this to you? No. But I know it happened. You can believe it or not. I'm guessing part of the reason for that is that they didn't want too many details to leak before the launch. Has the board makers had CPUs before that? Yes, they've had chips since last year, just not at the correct clock speeds. It's a great way to prevent leaks. Taiwan and China and leaky sieves when it comes to these things and let's assume the AdoredTV charts are right and AMD has a corker of a product, would they want that to leak ahead of the launch? Most likely not, as they want it to be a big surprise. I know for a fact that much of the rumours are true, but go on, feel free to doubt it, but I do hope you'll come back here an apologise in public once the products launch, if it turns out you were wrong.

 

[efikkan]

Whenever there is a launch of a new platform like this, there are months of internal testing(1), then early engineering samples to third parties (mostly motherboard makers, BIOS developers, etc.)(2), and then after the (assumed) final stepping is ready, a large scale testing effort from many partners(3), including OEMs, game developers, important enterprise customers(if applicable) etc. These are usually identical with the final product in silicon, clocks are usually close or identical.

I don't recall what the early roadmaps said about the launch of Zen 2, but if in fact it was delayed it happened way before December. By the signs the public have seen of the lacking ramp-up of Zen 2, it couldn't have launched in February, even if the node was ready. The ramp-up seems to have started around February and we are now in (3), which should indicate we are soon approaching the launch window.

I think the rumors about a launch at CES was a mix of wishful thinking and too much reading between the lines. It was pretty clear from that Lisa said that they were far away from launch, and the reason why she didn't want to commit to a date is because she knew there was still some uncertainty.

And BTW; chipset specs shouldn't change after tapeout, which happens ~1 year ahead of launch.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Whenever there is a launch of a new platform like this, there are months of internal testing(1), then early engineering samples to third parties (mostly motherboard makers, BIOS developers, etc.)(2), and then after the (assumed) final stepping is ready, a large scale testing effort from many partners(3), including OEMs, game developers, important enterprise customers(if applicable) etc. These are usually identical with the final product in silicon, clocks are usually close or identical.

I don't recall what the early roadmaps said about the launch of Zen 2, but if in fact it was delayed it happened way before December. By the signs the public have seen of the lacking ramp-up of Zen 2, it couldn't have launched in February, even if the node was ready. The ramp-up seems to have started around February and we are now in (3), which should indicate we are soon approaching the launch window.

I think the rumors about a launch at CES was a mix of wishful thinking and too much reading between the lines. It was pretty clear from that Lisa said that they were far away from launch, and the reason why she didn't want to commit to a date is because she knew there was still some uncertainty.

And BTW; chipset specs shouldn't change after tapeout, which happens ~1 year ahead of launch.

Let me be like you two, show me proof. Can you verify any of the stuff you just wrote? Links? Sources?

You two are speculating a lot, which you're free to do, but at the same time, you then need to accept that others have the same right.

I know for a fact that certain things have happened, I don't know why and I don't have all the details. I know what to expect from Ryzen 3000 in terms of clock speeds and even performance to a degree. I have seen hardware. What I can't do, is share exact details of that here, since I've given my word not to do so and it's something I stand by. If you chose to believe me or not, is up to you. We only have a few weeks to go, but I hope you two are at least big enough as people that you can admit that you have called people names for the wrong reasons once the product launch.

You're also following the Intel way when it comes to how you explain how things are done and yes, this is how they do things, I know that very well. However, AMD doesn't do things in the same logical way and the motherboard makers have to take a much larger share of the workload when it comes to develop the platforms compared to when they work with Intel. So don't bet on your believes being the only way things are done.