Microsoft Confirms Xbox Series X Specs - 12 TFLOPs, Custom APU With Zen 2, RDNA 2, H/W Accelerated Raytracing

[Bytales]

And still no Support for mouse nad Keyboard.

 

[Valantar]

Just wondering: Aside from RDNA2, what features does the Series X bring that doesn't exist in the PC GPU market today?
Or is RDNA2 the big thing here?

Well, yes. Consoles are never feature leaders when compared to PC hardware (at least not in the past couple of decades). It'll mainly be a major performance increase from current gen consoles while adding high-end features like VRS and RTRT. Also, things like variable refresh rate should be better implemented this time around (Xbone X/S have it, but poorly implemented). The CPU performance increase is also a major change to baseline game designs for cross-platform games, going from 7 Jaguar cores (8th is reserved for the OS/system) at low clock speeds to (likely) 7 Zen2 cores at higher clock speeds - the IPC change alone is something like 300%, with the clock speed bump likely increasing that by another 30-40% on top. Which in sum will allow for higher refresh rates, much better graphics, and more CPU-driven functionality in games (like improved NPC/enemy AI, physics, whatever else you can throw a fast CPU thread at), as well as the potential for very realistic lighting, reflections, etc.

And still no Support for mouse nad Keyboard.

Xbox One has (limited) mouse and keyboard support. It's up to game developers to allow it in games though.

 

[ARF]

"Criminal"? How? It's not like it's anticompetitive; it is how the console market has always operated, everyone does it and it's a perfectly viable business model. Hardware is sold as a loss leader to allow for profits through software licencing (FIY, this is also done in a lot of other industries, from movie tickets being sold at a loss with profits made on candy and drinks, to TVs sold at a loss with profits made on accessories, cables, insurance, etc. Don't get me started on capsule coffee makers.).

It is anti-competitive because forces AMD to bleed money. You know there is such type of practice in the automotive industry where suppliers are blackmailed by the big players, so they supply at unrealistically low prices.

It is not a perfectly viable business model because AMD is under threat of going under.

You remember how Intel was fined $1.3B for damaging AMD's sales and profits?!



Why do we need these consoles specs 8-9 MONTHS before the actual launch, while we don't have any confirmation of real RDNA 2.0 videocards? Which are about to debut much, much earlier?!

At least some benchmarks with performance results from the Navi 21?!

NO?!

 

[Valantar]

It is anti-competitive because forces AMD to bleed money. You know there is such type of practice in the automotive industry where suppliers are blackmailed by the big players, so they supply at unrealistically low prices.

It is not a perfectly viable business model because AMD is under threat of going under.

You remember how Intel was fined $1.3B for damaging AMD's sales and profits?!

This isn't relevant here whatsoever. Yes, obviously console makers will negotiate with AMD on price, but AMD is under no circumstances selling console SoCs at a loss. Period. Consoles are sold at a loss - to MS or Sony, but those losses are on their bottom lines, not their parts suppliers. How does this work? Let's make up some numbers for an example $500 retail price console:
- $250 SoC
- $100 SSD
- $30 BD drive
- $20 PSU
- $40 motherboard (including chipset, network controllers, WiFi, etc.)
- $20 case
- $10 assembly
- $?? software development (ongoing cost, so hard to include, but it's definitely there)
- $?? long-term support, RMA handling, etc.
- $?? marketing
- $?? developer support

So, here we have a theoretical console at $470 BOM cost, plus significant support and development costs, yet it's sold at $500 - a figure that also needs to include distributor and retailer profit margins - in other words, the console maker is not getting $500 for this, the number is likely below $450. This is the console maker's loss alone. That theoretical $250 SoC? The price obviously includes all costs to the SoC maker as well as their profit margins. That $250 price likely includes 20-30% profit margins for AMD, even after amortized R&D costs. Selling a console at a loss does not in any way imply that the parts suppliers are selling their parts at a loss - why would they? Wouldn't they then rather refuse the contract? Your thinking here makes no sense at all. The same obviously applies to the third-party OEMs making the flash and controller for the SSD, the PSU, the BD drive, etc., etc. - they are all making a profit. Only the console maker, the one assembling all the parts and selling them as a finished product, is losing anything. This is a calculated risk on their part - they might go bust by doing this after all - but they aim to make back any losses (and then some!) through the licensing costs for selling games for their platform, which is paid by game distributors per copy of any licensed game sold. Game license fees are typically $10, so at a $470 BOM and $450 price to distributors, MS can break even at two games sold per console (not counting what is required to finance development, marketing and support costs), with anything more being profit to them. But the important part is that regardless of whether the console maker makes or loses money, all their parts suppliers are getting paid, including profit margins - barring, of course, the console maker defaulting on their debt as part of going bankrupt. Which isn't likely to happen with any of the current ones.

The Semi-custom department at AMD, which is responsible for console SoCs, has been one of their most profitable departments over the past decade, and a significant reason for their survival through times when both CPU and GPU departments have had significant losses.

Tl;dr: your point here is complete nonsense and doesn't apply to this situation whatsoever. A console maker selling a console at a loss does not mean that parts suppliers are selling parts at a loss.

Why do we need these consoles specs 8-9 MONTHS before the actual launch, while we don't have any confirmation of real RDNA 2.0 videocards? Which are about to debut much, much earlier?!

At least some benchmarks with performance results from the Navi 21?!

NO?!

These products operate in entirely different markets with very different competitive landscapes. AMD is the only major high-performance player in consoles, as such they don't have to worry about competitors one-upping them by revealing features and broad specifications early. This also lets them give console makers some freedom in talking about specs for upcoming consoles to drum up interest for an upcoming generation - also a necessity given the long lifespans of consoles (5+ years) compared to PC GPUs (2-3 years) and the general unwillingness for most console gamers to upgrade (compared to the frenzied hardware fetishization in the PC gaming space).

On the other hand, in the PC space AMD is the perennial underdog, competing against a much larger and wealthier competitor that also has a performance and feature advantage currently. This means that tipping their hand too early is just feeding information to the competition, allowing them to adjust their product stack to compete at time of launch, minimizing any advantage AMD might gain from a new launch. Why would they give Nvidia early information so that they can adjust, rather than launch as "unexpectedly" as possible? AMD has zero to gain from leaking specs for upcoming GPUs early - they risk hurting sales of their current products while also giving Nvidia time to either adjust pricing of current produtcs or adjust specs/pricing/marketing of their upcoming products to better compete with what AMD is launching. The current timing would be especially terrible for this considering that Nvidia is expected to present consumer Ampere within a month - why not wait at least until Nvidia makes a public presentation so that AMD is then the one who can adjust?

 

[ARF]

AMD might not be selling at a loss but they are definitely not selling with a profit either. Their quarter results which are quite bad in the profit section indicate that.
You also didn't add the RAM cost which if HBM will be pretty high as well.

And I don't believe that Nvidia has no information about AMD's future products. If anyone knows best, it is exactly Nvidia.
They don't do anything because it's in their interest to sell the RTX lines at overinflated prices.

And how does Navi 21 interfere with the much lower specced and lower performance Navi 10!
Those are cards for completely different market segments.

Navi 10 is bad, while Navi 21 is expected to fix its problems.

The current timing would be especially terrible for this considering that Nvidia is expected to present consumer Ampere within a month - why not wait at least until Nvidia makes a public presentation so that AMD is then the one who can adjust?

There is no Ampere launch within a month. The chips were cancelled and new ones haven't been taped out yet,
Ampere is a 2021 thing if released ever.

 

[INSTG8R]

Navi 10 is bad, while Navi 21 is expected to fix its problems.

Sorry what’s “bad” about Navi 10?

 

[ARF]

Sorry what’s “bad” about Navi 10?

Performance per watt (7nm vs 16/12nm Nvidia and still behind), price not corresponding to the performance level, heat, driver problems, lack of any new features like ray-tracing, etc.
Should I list even more?

 

[INSTG8R]

Performance per watt (7nm vs 16/12nm Nvidia and still behind), price not corresponding to the performance level, heat, driver problems, lack of any new features like ray-tracing, etc.
Should I list even more?

Please do. I’d like to know what’s wrong with my recent purchase thats an upgrade from Vega in performance and power consumption.

 

[kapone32]

And still no Support for mouse nad Keyboard.

Why would you want to use mouse and keyboard on a console?

 

[ARF]

Please do. I’d like to know what’s wrong with my recent purchase thats an upgrade from Vega in performance and power consumption.

• Noisy in gaming
• Overclocking is complicated
• Driver bugs
• High temperatures
• No support for raytracing acceleration
• No idle fan stop
• High multi-monitor power draw
• CrossFire no longer supported

AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT Review

The AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT is based on AMD's all-new Navi 10 GPU featuring the RDNA architecture. We thoroughly test the card's gaming performance and look at power, heat, noise, overclocking, and clock frequency stability, too, sometimes with surprising results.

www.techpowerup.com

• Large increase in power consumption, power efficiency lost
• Memory overclocking limited by adjustment range
• Memory not overclocked
• No hardware-accelerated raytracing

XFX Radeon RX 5700 XT THICC III Ultra Review

The XFX RX 5700 XT THICC III Ultra is a brand new triple-fan design from the company, which runs higher clocks, too. XFX listened to criticism and improved the memory cooling plate, reducing temperatures and noise levels significantly, which makes the THICC III one of the quietest RX 5700 XT...

www.techpowerup.com

• High price
• Large increase in power consumption, power efficiency lost
• No hardware-accelerated raytracing

Sapphire Radeon RX 5700 XT Nitro+ Special Edition Review

Sapphire's RX 5700 XT Nitro+ Special Edition is the fastest air-cooled Radeon RX 5700 XT on the market. It has what no other card has: overclocked memory. Noise levels and thermals of the adjustable RGB fans are impressive. Does it beat the PowerColor Red Devil?

www.techpowerup.com

• Price seems a bit high
• Large increase in power consumption, power efficiency lost
• Memory overclocking limited by adjustment range
• Memory not overclocked
• No hardware-accelerated raytracing

ASRock Radeon RX 5700 XT Taichi OC+ Review

The ASRock RX 5700 XT Taichi OC+ is the fastest factory overclocked Navi card we've tested so far. We measured it to run almost 2 GHz real clock on average in our real-life, mixed gaming load. Temperatures are good, too, and the cooler includes idle-fan-stop.

www.techpowerup.com

Asus blames AMD for overheating ROG Strix RX 5700 Series cards

Asus blames AMD for overheating ROG Strix RX 5700 Series cards

In an unusual move, Asus shifted blame for its overheating ROG STRIX 5700 series graphics cards to AMD, claiming the GPU maker's mounting pressure guidelines delivered inadequate mounting force.

www.notebookcheck.net

Gamers are ditching Radeon graphics cards over driver issues

Gamers are ditching Radeon graphics cards over driver issues

As I planned and was beginning to run our next big graphics card benchmark test, I felt I had to shift gears to discuss AMD's driver woes...

www.techspot.com

AMD is Investigating Black Screen Driver Issues on Radeon Cards

AMD is Investigating Black Screen Driver Issues on Radeon Cards

AMD is aware of problems with black screens and Radeon GPU driver crashes and is currently investigating the problem.

www.extremetech.com

 

[kapone32]

Performance per watt (7nm vs 16/12nm Nvidia and still behind), price not corresponding to the performance level, heat, driver problems, lack of any new features like ray-tracing, etc.
Should I list even more?

Lack of new features like what? PCI_E 4.0, 7nm, Faster than the Vega 64 with less power draw, cheaper than the 2070. Oh but no ray tracing but I was talking about Navi. When you talk about price to performance I could buy 3 5700XTs for the price of 1 2080TI or 2 5700XTs for the price of 1 2080 Super and those are the only cards faster than the 5700Xt. Nvidia is much bigger and richer than AMD and does not have to split it's resources between CPUs and GPUs so Navi to me is great and ray tracing may be nice but not yet mainstream.

 

[Valantar]

AMD might not be selling at a loss but they are definitely not selling with a profit either. Their quarter results which are quite bad in the profit section indicate that.

...those results are a) most likely before mass production of SoCs for the XSX and PS5 started, and on the tail end of a console generation - when sales typically drop significantly. How many people do you think are buying the PS4 or XOX/XOS today? Not many. Thus MS and Sony aren't ordering many chips from AMD for the current generation, thus AMD don't have large profits in that sector currently. This will obviously change dramatically within the next year as the next generation ramps up.

You also didn't add the RAM cost which if HBM will be pretty high as well.

Well, sorry if my completely made-up numbers meant to illustrate a broad point about cost distribution and third party components supply skipped a point. I don't see how it makes a difference to what I was arguing whatsoever - I could have just said "let's assume a $500 retail console has a $250 SoC and a total BoM of $470" and left it at that.

That being said, there is no chance in hell that next-gen consoles are getting HBM. Zero. Zilch. Nada. Never going to happen. HBM is way too expensive for consoles, and two of its main advantages (space savings and power savings) don't matter much in that scenario. A 250W console can afford to spend 20W more than "necessary" on memory, and has a large motherboard capable of fitting heaps of GDDR6 channels.

And I don't believe that Nvidia has no information about AMD's future products. If anyone knows best, it is exactly Nvidia.
They don't do anything because it's in their interest to sell the RTX lines at overinflated prices.

Who cares? Believing that Nvidia likely has well-placed sources (even if this runs the risk of industrial espionage if taken far enough, which is rather illegal) does not in any way make for an argument that AMD (or whoever who is competing with whoever else, really) should go around divulging information of not-yet-ready-for-market products ahead of time. Period. Seriously, what do they stand to gain from this? Nothing at all.

And how does Navi 21 interfere with the much lower specced and lower performance Navi 10!
Those are cards for completely different market segments.

Not necessarily. Do you think AMD will only be launching a single RDNA2 GPU this year? I think there will be a fuller stack this year than last year. And a lot of people considering buying an RX 5700XT might consider holding off and saving up another $100-200 to get the next tier up if they know it's coming, which is a loss to AMD today with only the potential (not sure in any way) of future profits to show for it. Your logic here is very poor.

Navi 10 is bad, while Navi 21 is expected to fix its problems.

...no. Navi 10 is a significant improvement from GCN in any guise. It's far more efficient (even beyond the node change - a 210W 5700 XT matches a 295W Radeon VII on the same 7nm node, after all, and with 20 fewer CUs to boot - they have driven GPU prices down (I'd like more, but we're moving in the right direction at least). They haven't caught up to Nvidia, true, but expecting that to happen in a single generation (particularly when Nvidia has many times the R&D budget of AMD) is entirely unrealistic. RDNA (1) is a very good architecture, and hopefully RDNA2 will improve upon this again.

There is no Ampere launch within a month. The chips were cancelled and new ones haven't been taped out yet,
Ampere is a 2021 thing if released ever.

Source?

 

[kapone32]

• Noisy in gaming
• Overclocking is complicated
• Driver bugs
• High temperatures
• No support for raytracing acceleration
• No idle fan stop
• High multi-monitor power draw
• CrossFire no longer supported

AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT Review

The AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT is based on AMD's all-new Navi 10 GPU featuring the RDNA architecture. We thoroughly test the card's gaming performance and look at power, heat, noise, overclocking, and clock frequency stability, too, sometimes with surprising results.

www.techpowerup.com

• Large increase in power consumption, power efficiency lost
• Memory overclocking limited by adjustment range
• Memory not overclocked
• No hardware-accelerated raytracing

XFX Radeon RX 5700 XT THICC III Ultra Review

The XFX RX 5700 XT THICC III Ultra is a brand new triple-fan design from the company, which runs higher clocks, too. XFX listened to criticism and improved the memory cooling plate, reducing temperatures and noise levels significantly, which makes the THICC III one of the quietest RX 5700 XT...

www.techpowerup.com

• High price
• Large increase in power consumption, power efficiency lost
• No hardware-accelerated raytracing

Sapphire Radeon RX 5700 XT Nitro+ Special Edition Review

Sapphire's RX 5700 XT Nitro+ Special Edition is the fastest air-cooled Radeon RX 5700 XT on the market. It has what no other card has: overclocked memory. Noise levels and thermals of the adjustable RGB fans are impressive. Does it beat the PowerColor Red Devil?

www.techpowerup.com

• Price seems a bit high
• Large increase in power consumption, power efficiency lost
• Memory overclocking limited by adjustment range
• Memory not overclocked
• No hardware-accelerated raytracing

ASRock Radeon RX 5700 XT Taichi OC+ Review

The ASRock RX 5700 XT Taichi OC+ is the fastest factory overclocked Navi card we've tested so far. We measured it to run almost 2 GHz real clock on average in our real-life, mixed gaming load. Temperatures are good, too, and the cooler includes idle-fan-stop.

www.techpowerup.com

Asus blames AMD for overheating ROG Strix RX 5700 Series cards

Asus blames AMD for overheating ROG Strix RX 5700 Series cards

In an unusual move, Asus shifted blame for its overheating ROG STRIX 5700 series graphics cards to AMD, claiming the GPU maker's mounting pressure guidelines delivered inadequate mounting force.

www.notebookcheck.net

Gamers are ditching Radeon graphics cards over driver issues

Gamers are ditching Radeon graphics cards over driver issues

As I planned and was beginning to run our next big graphics card benchmark test, I felt I had to shift gears to discuss AMD's driver woes...

www.techspot.com

AMD is Investigating Black Screen Driver Issues on Radeon Cards

AMD is Investigating Black Screen Driver Issues on Radeon Cards

AMD is aware of problems with black screens and Radeon GPU driver crashes and is currently investigating the problem.

www.extremetech.com

Where do you get the large increase in power consumption? vs what?

 

[ARF]

Source?

Igors Lab: No, NVIDIA’s Ampere GPUs Are Not Launching In March

Igors Lab: No, NVIDIA's Ampere GPUs Are Not Launching In March

We have been covering leaks and rumors about Ampere GPUs pretty much non-stop for the past few weeks so it's only fair we cover a dissenting voice as well. The venerable Igor of Igor's Lab (a very reliable source I might add) has stated that he does not expect NVIDIA to launch/announce Ampere...

wccftech.com

NVidia Ampere GPUs from RTX 3050 to RTX 3090 Ti - Personal View Talks

 

[INSTG8R]

Lack of new features like what? PCI_E 4.0, 7nm, Faster than the Vega 64 with less power draw, cheaper than the 2070. Oh but no ray tracing but I was talking about Navi. When you talk about price to performance I could buy 3 5700XTs for the price of 1 2080TI or 2 5700XTs for the price of 1 2080 Super and those are the only cards faster than the 5700Xt. Nvidia is much bigger and richer than AMD and does not have to split it's resources between CPUs and GPUs so Navi to me is great and ray tracing may be nice but not yet mainstream.

Thanks kapone i think you summed it up nicely his negatives that I either A: Don’t care(RT) or B:haven’t experienced or don’t see them as negative. I’m impressed tho that he did make a pretty thorough list. My Nitro+ has been nothing but a great upgrade over my V64 Nitro+ in every metric, performance, power consumption, temperatures all improvements over Vega. I just can’t comment on the driver issues.

 

[kapone32]

Thanks kapone i think you summed it up nicely his negatives that I either A: Don’t care(RT) or B:haven’t experienced or don’t see them as negative. I’m impressed tho that he did make a pretty thorough list. My Nitro+ has been nothing but a great upgrade over my V6$ Nitro+ in every metric, performance, power consumption, temperatures all improvements over Vega. I just can’t comment on the driver issues.

I have wanted to pull the trigger on Navi but I can't seem to pull myself away from my Watercooled Vega 64s. I am patiently waiting for big Navi.

 

[Valantar]

• Noisy in gaming
• Overclocking is complicated
• Driver bugs
• High temperatures
• No support for raytracing acceleration
• No idle fan stop
• High multi-monitor power draw
• CrossFire no longer supported

AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT Review

The AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT is based on AMD's all-new Navi 10 GPU featuring the RDNA architecture. We thoroughly test the card's gaming performance and look at power, heat, noise, overclocking, and clock frequency stability, too, sometimes with surprising results.

www.techpowerup.com

• Large increase in power consumption, power efficiency lost
• Memory overclocking limited by adjustment range
• Memory not overclocked
• No hardware-accelerated raytracing

XFX Radeon RX 5700 XT THICC III Ultra Review

The XFX RX 5700 XT THICC III Ultra is a brand new triple-fan design from the company, which runs higher clocks, too. XFX listened to criticism and improved the memory cooling plate, reducing temperatures and noise levels significantly, which makes the THICC III one of the quietest RX 5700 XT...

www.techpowerup.com

• High price
• Large increase in power consumption, power efficiency lost
• No hardware-accelerated raytracing

Sapphire Radeon RX 5700 XT Nitro+ Special Edition Review

Sapphire's RX 5700 XT Nitro+ Special Edition is the fastest air-cooled Radeon RX 5700 XT on the market. It has what no other card has: overclocked memory. Noise levels and thermals of the adjustable RGB fans are impressive. Does it beat the PowerColor Red Devil?

www.techpowerup.com

• Price seems a bit high
• Large increase in power consumption, power efficiency lost
• Memory overclocking limited by adjustment range
• Memory not overclocked
• No hardware-accelerated raytracing

ASRock Radeon RX 5700 XT Taichi OC+ Review

The ASRock RX 5700 XT Taichi OC+ is the fastest factory overclocked Navi card we've tested so far. We measured it to run almost 2 GHz real clock on average in our real-life, mixed gaming load. Temperatures are good, too, and the cooler includes idle-fan-stop.

www.techpowerup.com

Asus blames AMD for overheating ROG Strix RX 5700 Series cards

Asus blames AMD for overheating ROG Strix RX 5700 Series cards

In an unusual move, Asus shifted blame for its overheating ROG STRIX 5700 series graphics cards to AMD, claiming the GPU maker's mounting pressure guidelines delivered inadequate mounting force.

www.notebookcheck.net

Gamers are ditching Radeon graphics cards over driver issues

Gamers are ditching Radeon graphics cards over driver issues

As I planned and was beginning to run our next big graphics card benchmark test, I felt I had to shift gears to discuss AMD's driver woes...

www.techspot.com

AMD is Investigating Black Screen Driver Issues on Radeon Cards

AMD is Investigating Black Screen Driver Issues on Radeon Cards

AMD is aware of problems with black screens and Radeon GPU driver crashes and is currently investigating the problem.

www.extremetech.com

So, let me see...

• You're complaining that cards that AMD's partners (not AMD themselves) have overclocked are less efficient than stock. I shouldn't have to tell you, this is how overclocking works, and it's exactly the same for Nvidia cards. If this bothers you, don't buy an overclocked card.
• You're complaining that a bog-standard blower design is hot and loud. Okay, sure, the reference design is less than ideal (even if the reasoning behind using a blower is acceptable it's less and less relevant to real-world uses). Get a better ventilated open air card with better thermals then (and not an OC version if that bothers you).
• "High temperatures" is not something that can be leveled as a general complaint of a GPU. Get a card with a good cooling solution then. Same goes for noise. Turing blower designs are also hot and loud.
• Driver bugs - largely overstated, and a lot of what was bad at launch was fixed within a few weeks of launch. Still some stuff there, true, and some persistent issues that should have been dealt with long ago, but it's nowhere near as bad as the media would like it to be. Media want sensations to drive traffic, and love to overstate problems as this is a major source of said traffic.
• You're complaining that a blower card doesn't have idle fan stop. No blower cards do, as they lack the access to open air to allow for passive heat dissipation.
• No support for ray tracing ... well, there's something to that, though one could respond by saying the competition at a similar (or even higher) price isn't delivering useable RT either (at least not without DLSS upscaling). It's a missing feature, but that doesn't detract from the card's overall performance or efficiency, and the games that might have made use of said feature number in the low, low double digits. Anyhow, catching up on a new and revolutionary feature in one generation is rather decent, no?
• Nvidia has a similar high multi monitor power draw bug.
• CrossFire no longer supported - so what? Games don't support CF or SLI any more, as there are no people using setups like that, and the technology is inherently problematic. Nvidia only supports SLI on its highest tier SKUs.

There's nothing wrong with Navi 10. Yes, overclocking and general tuning in Radeon Software needs serious improvement, including fan controls. And no, AMD didn't catch up with Nvidia entirely, but it's a damn sight better than what they had before, and they're making major architectural improvements. You don't seem to have a very good grasp on reality if you're expecting more than that.

Igors Lab: No, NVIDIA’s Ampere GPUs Are Not Launching In March

Igors Lab: No, NVIDIA's Ampere GPUs Are Not Launching In March

We have been covering leaks and rumors about Ampere GPUs pretty much non-stop for the past few weeks so it's only fair we cover a dissenting voice as well. The venerable Igor of Igor's Lab (a very reliable source I might add) has stated that he does not expect NVIDIA to launch/announce Ampere...

wccftech.com

NVidia Ampere GPUs from RTX 3050 to RTX 3090 Ti - Personal View Talks

Check your sources. The Igor's lab article WCCFTech "bases" their wild speculations on says nothing of Ampere being a 2021 product, but rather speculates whether Gamescom (late August) would be a more logical expectation. It even explicitly states that "even if AMD takes the crown with Big Navi [at Computex], it might only last for two months".

Thanks kapone i think you summed it up nicely his negatives that I either A: Don’t care(RT) or B:haven’t experienced or don’t see them as negative. I’m impressed tho that he did make a pretty thorough list. My Nitro+ has been nothing but a great upgrade over my V64 Nitro+ in every metric, performance, power consumption, temperatures all improvements over Vega. I just can’t comment on the driver issues.

I have wanted to pull the trigger on Navi but I can't seem to pull myself away from my Watercooled Vega 64s. I am patiently waiting for big Navi.

Same here - I considered replacing my Fury X with a 5700XT, but I've held off as I want my next GPU to last as long as this one (nearly five years now!), so I want a higher performance tier. For that kind of longevity, I also want RT - I don't see it as a necessity today or even next year, but when the new consoles arrive with RT, it's going to start being a necessary feature, and waiting until 2025 for my PC to keep up feature-wise with my consoles isn't an option. So I've held off, but Big Navi is 99% sure going into my PC this year. Hopefully in a relatively short form factor card (hoping for HBM!) and obviously with a water block. Can't go back once I went custom loop - never seeing a 275W GPU exceed 55C is rather amazing.

 

[kapone32]

So, let me see...

• You're complaining that cards that AMD's partners (not AMD themselves) have overclocked are less efficient than stock. I shouldn't have to tell you, this is how overclocking works, and it's exactly the same for Nvidia cards. If this bothers you, don't buy an overclocked card.
• You're complaining that a bog-standard blower design is hot and loud. Okay, sure, the reference design is less than ideal (even if the reasoning behind using a blower is acceptable it's less and less relevant to real-world uses). Get a better ventilated open air card with better thermals then (and not an OC version if that bothers you).
• "High temperatures" is not something that can be leveled as a general complaint of a GPU. Get a card with a good cooling solution then. Same goes for noise. Turing blower designs are also hot and loud.
• Driver bugs - largely overstated, and a lot of what was bad at launch was fixed within a few weeks of launch. Still some stuff there, true, and some persistent issues that should have been dealt with long ago, but it's nowhere near as bad as the media would like it to be. Media want sensations to drive traffic, and love to overstate problems as this is a major source of said traffic.
• You're complaining that a blower card doesn't have idle fan stop. No blower cards do, as they lack the access to open air to allow for passive heat dissipation.
• No support for ray tracing ... well, there's something to that, though one could respond by saying the competition at a similar (or even higher) price isn't delivering useable RT either (at least not without DLSS upscaling). It's a missing feature, but that doesn't detract from the card's overall performance or efficiency, and the games that might have made use of said feature number in the low, low double digits. Anyhow, catching up on a new and revolutionary feature in one generation is rather decent, no?
• Nvidia has a similar high multi monitor power draw bug.
• CrossFire no longer supported - so what? Games don't support CF or SLI any more, as there are no people using setups like that, and the technology is inherently problematic. Nvidia only supports SLI on its highest tier SKUs.

There's nothing wrong with Navi 10. No, AMD didn't catch up with Nvidia entirely, but it's a damn sight better than what they had before, and they're making major architectural improvements. You don't seem to have a very good grasp on reality if you're expecting more than that.

Check your sources. The Igor's lab article WCCFTech "bases" their wild speculations on says nothing of Ampere being a 2021 product, but rather speculates whether Gamescom (late August) would be a more logical expectation. It even explicitly states that "even if AMD takes the crown with Big Navi, it might only last for two months".



Same here - I considered replacing my Fury X with a 5700XT, but I've held off as I want my next GPU to last as long as this one (nearly five years now!), so I want a higher performance tier. For that kind of longevity, I also want RT - I don't see it as a necessity today or even next year, but when the new consoles arrive with RT, it's going to start being a necessary feature, and waiting until 2025 for my PC to keep up feature-wise with my consoles isn't an option. So I've held off, but Big Navi is 99% sure going into my PC this year. Hopefully in a relatively short form factor card (hoping for HBM!) and obviously with a water block. Can't go back once I went custom loop - never seeing a 275W GPU exceed 55C is rather amazing.

Everything you just said has me excited! Once you Watercool a GPU there is no turning back. I love seeing my Vegas idle at 2 or 3 degrees above room temps and going into the 60s while gaming but back to 25 C 10 minutes after a session.

 

[Valantar]

Everything you just said has me excited! Once you Watercool a GPU there is no turning back. I love seeing my Vegas idle at 2 or 3 degrees above room temps and going into the 60s while gaming but back to 25 C 10 minutes after a session.

Yeah, it's rather amazing. My loop lives in a rather airflow-starved NZXT H200i, and is arguably undersized for the thermal load (95W 1600X + 275W Fury X across 120mm + 240mm ~30mm thick rads), but it works extremely well. While gaming the CPU runs barely above 60C and the GPU normally around 50-52, with idle (with very low fan speeds on the front 240mm and the rear 120mm fan stopped) temps around 35-40 CPU and 30 GPU. If given just a tad more airflow I know this would drop even more. Still, I'm more than happy with it (it's so quiet too!), and I'm very much looking forward to getting a new GPU in there. I'm probably more eager for Big Navi to arrive than @ARF seems to be (and for it to kick butt), but thankfully I know how to temper my expectations with a dose of realism.

 

[kapone32]

Yeah, it's rather amazing. My loop lives in a rather airflow-starved NZXT H200i, and is arguably undersized for the thermal load (95W 1600X + 275W Fury X across 120mm + 240mm ~30mm thick rads), but it works extremely well. While gaming the CPU runs barely above 60C and the GPU normally around 50-52, with idle (with very low fan speeds on the front 240mm and the rear 120mm fan stopped) temps around 35-40 CPU and 30 GPU. If given just a tad more airflow I know this would drop even more. Still, I'm more than happy with it (it's so quiet too!), and I'm very much looking forward to getting a new GPU in there. I'm probably more eager for Big Navi to arrive than @ARF seems to be (and for it to kick butt), but thankfully I know how to temper my expectations with a dose of realism.

That sounds very good I was never a fan of water cooling but I was always into AIOs. When I got my first Eisbaer it started my journey into watercooling everything.

 

[INSTG8R]

I have wanted to pull the trigger on Navi but I can't seem to pull myself away from my Watercooled Vega 64s. I am patiently waiting for big Navi.

I decided for 1440 this is more than enough card and the uplift or Vega is worth it We saw the “rumour mill card” I don’t need that, but perhaps I’ll change my mind when it gets here.

 

[Valantar]

I decided for 1440 this is more than enough card and the uplift or Vega is worth it We saw the “rumour mill card” I don’t need that, but perhaps I’ll change my mind when it gets here.

Yeah, the RX 5700 XT is an excellent 1440p card for now and the coming years. And given that 4k gaming is still rather silly, the only real reason for a faster card is 1440p120 or longevity, both of which play into my choice of holding off. But the 5700 XT is still very compelling.

 

[INSTG8R]

Yeah, the RX 5700 XT is an excellent 1440p card for now and the coming years. And given that 4k gaming is still rather silly, the only real reason for a faster card is 1440p120 or longevity, both of which play into my choice of holding off. But the 5700 XT is still very compelling.

Gets me where I wanna be I have a Freesync 2 HDR 144hz monitor to pair it with so I'm very pleased with the combo.

 

[ARF]

Yeah, the RX 5700 XT is an excellent 1440p card for now and the coming years. And given that 4k gaming is still rather silly, the only real reason for a faster card is 1440p120 or longevity, both of which play into my choice of holding off. But the 5700 XT is still very compelling.

You think 2160p gaming is silly. Why?

 

[INSTG8R]

You think 2160p gaming is silly. Why?

For me I don’t see the GFX horsepower needed to get a decent 4K experiences is worth it. 1440 is the “sweet spot” I’ll enjoy 4K on my TV