AMD Ryzen 7 4700G "Renoir" Desktop Processor Pictured

[AlB80]

The most important data which is missing from the reveal is the memory support.

I want to bet on PC4-25600 non-ECC.

 

[R00kie]

if this thing isn't compatible with B450, I'm gonna cry

 

[Apocalypsee]

if this thing isn't compatible with B450, I'm gonna cry

Yep, if its not compatible with older chipset then it such a sad thing I cant put this kind of power on Deskmini A300

 

[watzupken]

I think we can take the current 3700X as a reference for the pricing of this 4700G. While the new Zen 3 chips will be out this year, the advantage of the APU is the integrated graphics, which should also command a premium over the graphicless chips.

Having said that, I feel the 4700G will be an odd chip because if AMD is to price it around a 3700X, people who buy CPU at this range typically will buy a graphic card as well. I feel people who will get this chip is because of the Vega iGPU so that they can still game on a budget. Currently, the 3200G and 3400G are sub 150 bucks APU, which makes sense for a budget gamer.

if this thing isn't compatible with B450, I'm gonna cry

AMD already mentioned that they will not provide Ryzen 4xxx support on any chipset older than X570. While there is a chance motherboard makers can still provide a BIOS update, but this is not guaranteed. This is the same when AMD decided that they will not allow PCI-E 4.0 support for X470 or older boards.

 

[Chrispy_]

Lots of special people in this thread. An 8/16 zen 2 that boosts higher than anything with an iGPU for $200. Yep, ok.

This.

It's a 3700X that trades L3 cache for Vega graphics, so it's going to be roughly the same price as a 3700X, most likely.

Don't be surprised if it's considerably more expensive than a 3700X, either.

Remember that the 3700X is cheap to produce - it is two smaller dies, only one of which is on the more expensive 7nm process. This is a single, large die on 7nm. Anyone who doesn't understand the cost implications of that needs to read up on how semiconductors are made before commenting. TL;DR production cost increases exponentially with die size.

Don't forget, this isn't some budget, cut down offering - this is fully-enabled Renoir silicon with no defects in either the CPU or graphics.

It's flawless silicon of a large die on the latest process node. Each bolded term = $$$

 

[Apocalypsee]

AMD already mentioned that they will not provide Ryzen 4xxx support on any chipset older than X570. While there is a chance motherboard makers can still provide a BIOS update, but this is not guaranteed. This is the same when AMD decided that they will not allow PCI-E 4.0 support for X470 or older boards.

Nope, they said Ryzen Desktop Processor with ZEN 3 architecture. This APU is based on Zen 2

 

[Caring1]

Nope, they said Ryzen Desktop Processor with ZEN 3 architecture. This APU is based on Zen 2

This is where it gets confusing, to me at least.
The slide says Ryzen 5 3400G and Ryzen 3 3200G aren't supported on the 5 series chipset, the Ryzen 4700G is supported, yet it is based on the same 2nd Gen Ryzen.
The way I see it, the earlier 3400G and 3200G should be compatible too.

 

[Apocalypsee]

This is where it gets confusing, to me at least.
The slide says Ryzen 5 3400G and Ryzen 3 3200G aren't supported on the 5 series chipset, the Ryzen 4700G is supported, yet it is based on the same 2nd Gen Ryzen.
The way I see it, the earlier 3400G and 3200G should be compatible too.

They put it at B550 that Ryzen 3200/3400G is not compatible but not X570. I think its a matter of 'officially supported'. You can see from the slides that most of them aren't true. A320 and B350 motherboard support Ryzen 3000 series, some reported Ryzen 1000 series works on X570 motherboards. And AMD is not (yet) locking/restricting AGESA updates on any of its chipset.

 

[Vya Domus]

If this thing will be under 350$ ill be amazed.
My take is 399$.

Doubt it, this is an APU meant for a specific segment where people just wont shell out that sort of cash.

 

[Chrispy_]

All the confusion here is simply because some moron at AMD decided to call the mobile Zen versions 2000-series when it was actually 1000-series by architecture and process node.

They've already created a 1600AF which is clearly 2nd Gen but has a 1000-moniker. At some point before all this blows up in their face they should just rename the APUs in the correct thousand-series and all of this stupidity and confusion goes away.

It's bad enough that they Called Zen+ second generation which means Zen 2 isn't second generation and screws up talking about products via the architecture/silicon.
The APU's randomly having +1000 added to the model numbers screws up talking about products via series.

All that's left is this convoluted mess where the name and the number together need to be matched to a compatibility matrix. Good luck trying to explain that fustercluck to Joe Average at the point of sale!

Doubt it, this is an APU meant for a specific segment where people just wont shell out that sort of cash.

You appear to have missed that there's more to mITX than just slapping a dual-slot GPU in there. Intel has a hugely successful line of NUCs, including premium and gaming models where 'people actually do shell out that sort of cash' and there's also a thriving market in very slim mITX cases where IGPs are required - not to mention miniSTX and nanoITX options from several popular case manufacturers.

Remember, the most popular Apple desktop PC is the Mac Mini. There is very definitely an established market for high-end compact desktops.

 

[Vya Domus]

Intel has a hugely successful line of NUCs, including premium and gaming models where 'people actually do shell out that sort of cash' and there's also a thriving market in very slim mITX cases where IGPs are required - not to mention miniSTX and nanoITX options from several popular case manufacturers.

"Hugely successful" ? Come on, be real, AMD probably outsells NUCs with their APUs by at least an order of magnitude. mITX, nanoITX, picoITX and whatever else case formats are part of an extremely niche segment. The overwhelming majority of people that buy APUs do so because of budget constraints not format constraints. Moreover, the mentality behind most of these consumers are that eventually they'll buy a dedicated GPU, small form factors just aren't on their mind.

Remember, the most popular Apple desktop PC is the Mac Mini.

And are hardly a spec of dust in the overall PC market.

 

[Turmania]

Naming is getting confusing both for cpu and motherboards.

 

[watzupken]

Nope, they said Ryzen Desktop Processor with ZEN 3 architecture. This APU is based on Zen 2

I recall the key challenge to make the new chips backward compatible is due to the 16mb EEPROM on most motherboards which is insufficient to add in new processor support. If that is the case, I am not sure if the slide above is accurate. I agree that there’s confusion because basically Renoir is based on Zen 2, and the slide did mentioned that there will be no support for Zen 3 processors with the older chipset. Well, I think no need to speculate much since the release is few months away.

 

[Apocalypsee]

I recall the key challenge to make the new chips backward compatible is due to the 16mb EEPROM on most motherboards which is insufficient to add in new processor support. If that is the case, I am not sure if the slide above is accurate. I agree that there’s confusion because basically Renoir is based on Zen 2, and the slide did mentioned that there will be no support for Zen 3 processors with the older chipset. Well, I think no need to speculate much since the release is few months away.

Motherboard manufacturer has overcome the EEPROM limitation by several method; putting larger 32MB EEPROM, removing older CPU microcode to give some space, reducing GUI to make some space so all hope is not lost. This is all speculation though, so we shall see how things going in a few months/weeks when the APU is revealed.

 

[IceShroom]

They've already created a 1600AF which is clearly 2nd Gen but has a 1000-moniker.

What are you talking about?? There is no Ryzen 5 1600AF in AMD's product list. It is something some youtuber start to call 1600 with different serial number as 1600AF.

 

[Caring1]

What are you talking about?? There is no Ryzen 5 1600AF in AMD's product list. It is something some youtuber start to call 1600 with different serial number as 1600AF.

The new R5 1600 released in 2019 has the code AF on the box, the R5 1600 released in 2017 doesn't.

 

[Chrispy_]

"Hugely successful" ? Come on, be real, AMD probably outsells NUCs with their APUs by at least an order of magnitude. mITX, nanoITX, picoITX and whatever else case formats are part of an extremely niche segment. The overwhelming majority of people that buy APUs do so because of budget constraints not format constraints. Moreover, the mentality behind most of these consumers are that eventually they'll buy a dedicated GPU, small form factors just aren't on their mind.

I guess you are blinded by your denial.

Intel makes the NUC and it has been successful enough across several generations to warrant its own dedicated silicon; The only way you can get the Intel/Vega hybrid (i7-8809G) is via the Hades Canyon NUC. That alone is enough to justify the existence of this 4700G as a premium competitor from AMD, but just to make a point that this is not a tiny market segment it includes:


Thin clients for business from every tier-1 manufacturer and several tier-2 manufacturers like Fujitsu, Shuttle, Wyse etc.

Consumer NUC clones:
- Acer Aspire Revo, Revo One/Cube/Pro/Mini/Build/Base/L-series/RL-series, and Veriton
- Asus MiniPC, ProArt, Vivomini, and ROG
- Asrock product families: Deskmini, Jupiter, Beebox, Beebox-S
- Clevo models resold via Sager, Medion, Chillblast, OriginPC, PCS, Xotic etc.
- Dell Studio Hybrid, Inspiron Micro, Alienware Alpha, Optiplex Micro
- Gigabyte Brix: These go all the way back to the original NUC and were the NUC's first real competition.
- HP Elitedesk, Prodesk, G-series, Pavillion Mini, Elite Slice, Pavillion Wave, Z2 Mini, Omen X
- Lenovo Thinkcentre M-series Nano, M-series Tiny, Ideacentre Q-series, Idecentre 620S
- MSI Trident, Creator, Prestige, Cubi
- Shuttle: Like Gigabyte, no intro necessary. They predate the NUC and compete with it at all sizes and specs.
- Zotac: Early NUC competitor. More models than Intel now, spanning more prices and specs.

For every name brand on that list there are two chinese copies from companies like Azulle, Beelink, Chuwa, Mii, Minix, Huaweii.


But feel free to keep pretending that this is a failing or invalid market segment. So what if every single PC vendor (and a few that don't usually make PCs) has a huge range of mini-PCs that are thin-format mITX or smaller, spanning multiple families and store shelves, webpages? - that doesn't mean it's successful. Clearly they are wrong and you are right; Those things do not sell, and aren't mainstream enough to matter or invest in multiple product families and refreshes over the better part of a decade.

 

[IceShroom]

The new R5 1600 released in 2019 has the code AF on the box, the R5 1600 released in 2017 doesn't.

AF in serial number dosent mean new SKU. Serial number is not SKU number. My i5 had a tray version with different serial number, does that mean that the tray version is a different SKU??

 

[Chrispy_]

What are you talking about?? There is no Ryzen 5 1600AF in AMD's product list. It is something some youtuber start to call 1600 with different serial number as 1600AF.

as @Caring1 has pointed out, it's a different SKU - by definition of the label on the box.

It's 2nd-Gen Zen+ instead of 1st-Gen Zen, it's in a different box with a different cooler, It's Pinnacle Ridge instead of Summit Ridge and it's on the 12nm LP process instead of GlobalFoundries original 14nm. The only thing it has in common with the original Ryzen 5 1600 is the microcode - for OEM compatibility as far as I understand it.

 

[IceShroom]

as @Caring1 has pointed out, it's a completely different SKU. It's 2nd-Gen Zen+ instead of 1st-Gen Zen, it's in a different box with a different cooler, It's Pinnacle Ridge instead of Summit Ridge and it's Samsung's 12nm LP instead of GlobalFoundries 14nm. The only thing it has in common with the original Ryzen 5 1600 is the microcode - for OEM compatibility as far as I understand it.

If it is new SKU why don't it have new name and new serial number. New 1600's serial number start with 1600xxxx not 2600xxxx. Also if it is second gen than no away it will boot with first gen AGESA.

Everything will looks like confusing if people start to take serial number as product name. Also AMD didn't start calling new serail number SKU as 1600AF, it is some youtuber and some people start calling that. So AMD didn't create confusion, it is created by some youtuber and some people. And because of that they are also getting more confused by the same cinfusion they created themselves.

 

[Xuper]

© 2019 AMD , So It shipped 6~7 months ago ?

 

[Vya Domus]

But feel free to keep pretending that this is a failing or invalid market segment.

I didn't say it's failing or that it's an "invalid" segment, whatever the hell that even means, don't put words in my mouth just to defend your fringe product. That's right, it's a fringe product for a fringe group of people, nothing invalid about that. Stop trying to make me believe everyone out there is buying NUCs or something and I just haven't noticed it. These things account for nothing when you put them in the same context with the number of laptops/prebuilds that are shipped and more importantly when you factor in the DIY PC segment.

APUs for premium systems are an incredibly small and insignificant portion of the market. They're primarily for cheap systems and as such that's the main target for these products, end of story. You can chose to believe otherwise and that's solely your business.

 

[Daven]

I didn't say it's failing or that it's an "invalid" segment, whatever the hell that even means, don't put words in my mouth just to defend your fringe product. That's right, it's a fringe product for a fringe group of people, nothing invalid about that. Stop trying to make me believe everyone out there is buying NUCs or something and I just haven't noticed it. These things account for nothing when you put them in the same context with the number of laptops/prebuilds that are shipped and more importantly when you factor in the DIY PC segment.

APUs for premium systems are an incredibly small and insignificant portion of the market. They're primarily for cheap systems and as such that's the main target for these products, end of story. You can chose to believe otherwise and that's solely your business.

I think people are frustrated that you are dismissing the integrated graphics market as small. Intel has been integrated graphics in all their processors up the desktop stack for years. They know that there are many use cases for single, light and multi-threaded users that have no interest in graphics beyond the 2D display of Windows OS and applications on their screen. Right now AMD doesn't have any of that market beyond the lightly threaded users and no products using the latest Zen 2.

 

[Chrispy_]

I think people are frustrated that you are dismissing the integrated graphics market as small. Intel has been integrated graphics in all their processors up the desktop stack for years. They know that there are many use cases for single, light and multi-threaded users that have no interest in graphics beyond the 2D display of Windows OS and applications on their screen. Right now AMD doesn't have any of that market beyond the lightly threaded users and no products using the latest Zen 2.

Thank you, at least you get it.

Desktops without dedicated graphics cards make up huge fraction of the market. I can't find figures but I wouldn't be surprised to hear that machines with integrated graphics are considerably more than half the total market. Both on etailers and in bricks-and-mortar retailers if you look at the listings, the "office/student/general-purpose PC that lacks a dGPU is extremely prevalent in search results and does seem to dominate the shelf space (what little is left for deesktop instead of laptops, anyway).

I didn't say it's failing or that it's an "invalid" segment, whatever the hell that even means, don't put words in my mouth just to defend your fringe product. That's right, it's a fringe product for a fringe group of people, nothing invalid about that. Stop trying to make me believe everyone out there is buying NUCs or something and I just haven't noticed it. These things account for nothing when you put them in the same context with the number of laptops/prebuilds that are shipped and more importantly when you factor in the DIY PC segment.

APUs for premium systems are an incredibly small and insignificant portion of the market. They're primarily for cheap systems and as such that's the main target for these products, end of story. You can chose to believe otherwise and that's solely your business.

I'm telling you it's not a fringe product, you're just being too narrow-minded to understand;

Both I and @dj-electric's are speculating that this will be a premium product - he guessed $399 and you immediately dismissed that with "an APU meant for a specific segment where people just wont shell out that sort of cash"

Newsflash: people buy i7 desktops without graphics cards in them ALL THE TIME and those chips are in the exact $350-400 ballpark we're both talking about. It's one of the most common product segments in the desktop market, period. AMD hasn't had much worth selling in that market for a decade, and now that they finally have something competitive you're dismissing the entire market? Jeez.

Here are all the desktop PCs selection from a large UK e-tailer: https://www.ebuyer.com/store/Computer/cat/Desktop-PC - that's 338 results and 246 of them use integrated graphics. Filter so that it's only i7 models and of the 55 i7 results, 45 of them have only IGPs.

Taking that single look at one retailer, it would seem that the integrated graphics market for desktops is 72 of the market, and of those IGP models, 22% of them are premium i7 versions with expensive CPUs in them. Feel free to look at other e-tailers/retailers but I'd be surprised if you find anywhere mainstream that has more gaming machines than office/student/mom&pop PCs.

 

[Vya Domus]

I think people are frustrated that you are dismissing the integrated graphics market as small.

What is it with you people trying to put words in my mouth ? I never said it's a small market in general, I was being very specific when I said it's a small market for small form factor premium PCs, it just is. For one thing it's kind of a stretch to say that just because Intel ships almost all of their chips with integrated graphics that this means they are of great importance to most people. They aren't, we both know a considerable chunk of laptops/prebuilds do have dedicated graphics.

You think people really buy 9900Ks to use them just with their iGPUs ? Come one, be realistic. Premium APUs are hardly a thing because the kind of people that would want that, they'd probably afford to use a dedicated GPU even in really small form factors. It's exceedingly rare that your use case absolutely prohibits the use of a dedicate GPU.

And to top it all off, 8 cores isn't really "premium" nowadays, that's kind of middle of the road. You can't really ask a lot for an 8 core Zen 2 chip with what is an aging GPU by now. Intel sure did try to ask a lot for that but they try to ask a lot for everything, including for things like NUCs which are severely overpriced for what they can do. Many manufactures have shown that you can build crazy small PCs with dedicated graphics.