• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

AMD Backpedals, Zen 3 Support Coming to B450 and X470

btarunr

Editor & Senior Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 9, 2007
Messages
47,244 (7.54/day)
Location
Hyderabad, India
System Name RBMK-1000
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5700G
Motherboard ASUS ROG Strix B450-E Gaming
Cooling DeepCool Gammax L240 V2
Memory 2x 8GB G.Skill Sniper X
Video Card(s) Palit GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER GameRock
Storage Western Digital Black NVMe 512GB
Display(s) BenQ 1440p 60 Hz 27-inch
Case Corsair Carbide 100R
Audio Device(s) ASUS SupremeFX S1220A
Power Supply Cooler Master MWE Gold 650W
Mouse ASUS ROG Strix Impact
Keyboard Gamdias Hermes E2
Software Windows 11 Pro
AMD backpedaled on dropping support for its future "Zen 3" processors on AMD 400-series chipset motherboards. The company will work with its motherboard partners in integrating "Zen 3" processor support on certain beta versions of motherboard BIOSes. AMD also detailed how it plans to go about it. The said BIOS will be a one-way ticket to using "Zen 3" processors while losing support for all older microarchitectures.

The way it works is the motherboard manufacturer will integrate the Zen 3-only AGESA with a firmware that can squeeze into a 16 MB ROM. They may also choose to conserve ROM space in areas such as the UEFI setup program, which may not correspond with the motherboard's original feature-set. This is essentially similar to how MSI integrated "Zen 2" support on some of its older motherboards with 16 MB ROMs, by slimming down its UEFI setup program.



Since the BIOS will chop support for all older processors, to prevent motherboard RMA chaos for manufacturers, they will set up a system that issues BIOS updates only to customers upon verifying that they actually own a "Zen 3" processor. The way we imagine this works would be similar to game bundles (retailer issues a BIOS update token along with the processor, or a scratch card next to the case badge inside the PIB). Flashing a 400-series chipset motherboard will be a delicate process. You will have to use the USB BIOS flashback feature (which luckily is well proliferated on the AM4 motherboard ecosystem). Alternatively, you should be able to begin the BIOS flashing process with an older processor installed, and immediately switch over to the newer Zen 3 processor once the flashing process is complete.

Also, the beta BIOS updates won't be immediately available, but rather when "Zen 3" processors are readily available in all the markets AMD serves. AMD reiterates, that "Zen 3" will be the final microarchitecture 400-series chipsets support, recommending that the processors will work best with a 500-series chipset motherboard for best performance and support for the latest features.

Controversy erupted when AMD revealed in its B550 chipset slide deck that 400-series (and older) chipsets won't support "Zen 3," which users felt betrayed AMD's promise of platform support running into 2020. In the absence of B550, many value-conscious buyers paired their brand new 3rd generation Ryzen processors with some of the more premium B450 chipset motherboards, in hopes of an upgrade path to "Zen 3."

View at TechPowerUp Main Site
 
Joined
May 2, 2020
Messages
397 (0.24/day)
Location
Antares
System Name BloodRage
Processor R5 2600X PBO enabled
Motherboard Gigabyte Aorus B450 Elite
Cooling Arctic Esports Duo
Memory 16GB Corsair Vengeance 3000
Video Card(s) MSI VENTUS OC 2060 Super
Storage 120GB PNY SATA + 1TB WD Blue M.2
Display(s) Samsung CRG5 144hz QD
Case CiT cheap chassis
Audio Device(s) Creative Audigy FX
Power Supply Superflower Leadex III Gold 650w
Mouse Razer Basilisk
Keyboard Red Dragon Kumara
Software Win 10
Good to see AMD fixing their mistake.
 

bug

Joined
May 22, 2015
Messages
13,780 (3.96/day)
Processor Intel i5-12600k
Motherboard Asus H670 TUF
Cooling Arctic Freezer 34
Memory 2x16GB DDR4 3600 G.Skill Ripjaws V
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 1060 SC
Storage 500GB Samsung 970 EVO, 500GB Samsung 850 EVO, 1TB Crucial MX300 and 2TB Crucial MX500
Display(s) Dell U3219Q + HP ZR24w
Case Raijintek Thetis
Audio Device(s) Audioquest Dragonfly Red :D
Power Supply Seasonic 620W M12
Mouse Logitech G502 Proteus Core
Keyboard G.Skill KM780R
Software Arch Linux + Win10
With all that talk, AMD was about to do what their fans accuse Intel of: removing CPU support for no good reason.
At least they reversed their stance quickly. But not quick enough for people not to notice where their heart truly is ;)
 

SL2

Joined
Jan 27, 2006
Messages
2,454 (0.36/day)
But not quick enough for people not to notice where their heart truly is ;)
Dunno about that. I mean, how official was that reddit post to begin with? Yeah he worked for AMD, but I have no more info than that.

This wasn't a simple yes/no question. AMD really had to give it a thought if it was feasible, and to what extent.
 

bug

Joined
May 22, 2015
Messages
13,780 (3.96/day)
Processor Intel i5-12600k
Motherboard Asus H670 TUF
Cooling Arctic Freezer 34
Memory 2x16GB DDR4 3600 G.Skill Ripjaws V
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 1060 SC
Storage 500GB Samsung 970 EVO, 500GB Samsung 850 EVO, 1TB Crucial MX300 and 2TB Crucial MX500
Display(s) Dell U3219Q + HP ZR24w
Case Raijintek Thetis
Audio Device(s) Audioquest Dragonfly Red :D
Power Supply Seasonic 620W M12
Mouse Logitech G502 Proteus Core
Keyboard G.Skill KM780R
Software Arch Linux + Win10
Joined
Mar 22, 2019
Messages
461 (0.22/day)
Location
Western NY, USA
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 3700x
Motherboard Asus ROG Strix X470-F Gaming
Cooling Scythe Ninja 5
Memory G.Skill Ripjaws V 16GB (2 x 8GB) (F4-3600C16D-16GVKC) @ 3733 MHz 16-19-19-19-36-56
Video Card(s) MSI RTX 2060 Super Armor OC 8GB
Storage 1x Samsung 970 EVO 500GB / 3x Crucial MX500 / 4 HDDs
Display(s) Dell 23" LCD S2316M
Case Rosewill Rise Glow
Power Supply CORSAIR RM650
Mouse Cooler Master MS120
Keyboard Cooler Master MS120
Software Windows 10 Pro x64
I had a VERY strong feeling this was going to be the case.
I even posted that in another thread last week:
I still have hope that MB manufacturers will offer support for 4000 Series CPUs on B450 and X470 motherboards via BIOS updates.
 
Joined
Dec 3, 2014
Messages
348 (0.10/day)
Location
Marabá - Pará - Brazil
System Name KarymidoN TitaN
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5700X
Motherboard ASUS TUF X570
Cooling Custom Watercooling Loop
Memory 2x Kingston FURY RGB 16gb @ 3200mhz 18-20-20-39
Video Card(s) MSI GTX 1070 GAMING X 8GB
Storage Kingston NV2 1TB| 4TB HDD
Display(s) 4X 1080P LG Monitors
Case Aigo Darkflash DLX 4000 MESH
Power Supply Corsair TX 600
Mouse Logitech G300S
I Have a question, legit one, might be stupid but if anyone can answer...

My Mobo has Dual Bios (2 16mb chips), a lot of Mobos do. I Can have 2 complete different versions of bions on those 2.
Why not create an option to update the second bios to ZEN3 while using the #1 BIOS for ZEN/ZEN+/ZEN2?
and if you try to boot BIOS#1 with ZEN3 it detects and tryies the BIOS#2...

Is that not possible? too risky? legit question.
 
Joined
Dec 29, 2010
Messages
3,809 (0.75/day)
Processor AMD 5900x
Motherboard Asus x570 Strix-E
Cooling Hardware Labs
Memory G.Skill 4000c17 2x16gb
Video Card(s) RTX 3090
Storage Sabrent
Display(s) Samsung G9
Case Phanteks 719
Audio Device(s) Fiio K5 Pro
Power Supply EVGA 1000 P2
Mouse Logitech G600
Keyboard Corsair K95
I Have a question, legit one, might be stupid but if anyone can answer...

My Mobo has Dual Bios (2 16mb chips), a lot of Mobos do. I Can have 2 complete different versions of bions on those 2.
Why not create an option to update the second bios to ZEN3 while using the #1 BIOS for ZEN/ZEN+/ZEN2?
and if you try to boot BIOS#1 with ZEN3 it detects and tryies the BIOS#2...

Is that not possible? too risky? legit question.

It's going to be up to board p[artners to do the soft lifting to make it work. There are too many if ands or buts which is why they said no. But really it is going to come down to the board partners to sort it all out.
 

bug

Joined
May 22, 2015
Messages
13,780 (3.96/day)
Processor Intel i5-12600k
Motherboard Asus H670 TUF
Cooling Arctic Freezer 34
Memory 2x16GB DDR4 3600 G.Skill Ripjaws V
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 1060 SC
Storage 500GB Samsung 970 EVO, 500GB Samsung 850 EVO, 1TB Crucial MX300 and 2TB Crucial MX500
Display(s) Dell U3219Q + HP ZR24w
Case Raijintek Thetis
Audio Device(s) Audioquest Dragonfly Red :D
Power Supply Seasonic 620W M12
Mouse Logitech G502 Proteus Core
Keyboard G.Skill KM780R
Software Arch Linux + Win10
I Have a question, legit one, might be stupid but if anyone can answer...

My Mobo has Dual Bios (2 16mb chips), a lot of Mobos do. I Can have 2 complete different versions of bions on those 2.
Why not create an option to update the second bios to ZEN3 while using the #1 BIOS for ZEN/ZEN+/ZEN2?
and if you try to boot BIOS#1 with ZEN3 it detects and tryies the BIOS#2...

Is that not possible? too risky? legit question.
You don't need an option for that, you can already flash anything you want on your BIOS copies. Typically one copy is used as backup/failsafe, but they don't care which BIOS version they hold. But you'll loose the backup/failsafe if the other copy doesn't support your current CPU.
 

TheLostSwede

News Editor
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Messages
17,656 (2.41/day)
Location
Sweden
System Name Overlord Mk MLI
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard Gigabyte X670E Aorus Master
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 SE with offsets
Memory 32GB Team T-Create Expert DDR5 6000 MHz @ CL30-34-34-68
Video Card(s) Gainward GeForce RTX 4080 Phantom GS
Storage 1TB Solidigm P44 Pro, 2 TB Corsair MP600 Pro, 2TB Kingston KC3000
Display(s) Acer XV272K LVbmiipruzx 4K@160Hz
Case Fractal Design Torrent Compact
Audio Device(s) Corsair Virtuoso SE
Power Supply be quiet! Pure Power 12 M 850 W
Mouse Logitech G502 Lightspeed
Keyboard Corsair K70 Max
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores https://valid.x86.fr/yfsd9w
I Have a question, legit one, might be stupid but if anyone can answer...

My Mobo has Dual Bios (2 16mb chips), a lot of Mobos do. I Can have 2 complete different versions of bions on those 2.
Why not create an option to update the second bios to ZEN3 while using the #1 BIOS for ZEN/ZEN+/ZEN2?
and if you try to boot BIOS#1 with ZEN3 it detects and tryies the BIOS#2...

Is that not possible? too risky? legit question.

Maybe, on some boards it's possible, but not on all. You also can't manually select which one to boot from on most boards. Your board doesn't appear to have such a switch. Normally only really high-end models have that.
 
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Messages
5,556 (0.96/day)
System Name Cyberline
Processor Intel Core i7 2600k -> 12600k
Motherboard Asus P8P67 LE Rev 3.0 -> Gigabyte Z690 Auros Elite DDR4
Cooling Tuniq Tower 120 -> Custom Watercoolingloop
Memory Corsair (4x2) 8gb 1600mhz -> Crucial (8x2) 16gb 3600mhz
Video Card(s) AMD RX480 -> RX7800XT
Storage Samsung 750 Evo 250gb SSD + WD 1tb x 2 + WD 2tb -> 2tb MVMe SSD
Display(s) Philips 32inch LPF5605H (television) -> Dell S3220DGF
Case antec 600 -> Thermaltake Tenor HTCP case
Audio Device(s) Focusrite 2i4 (USB)
Power Supply Seasonic 620watt 80+ Platinum
Mouse Elecom EX-G
Keyboard Rapoo V700
Software Windows 10 Pro 64bit
With all that talk, AMD was about to do what their fans accuse Intel of: removing CPU support for no good reason.
At least they reversed their stance quickly. But not quick enough for people not to notice where their heart truly is ;)

you should really look into the problem before running your mouth, would make you look a tad more intelligent.
I recommened Gamers Nexus.
 
Joined
Mar 10, 2015
Messages
3,984 (1.12/day)
System Name Wut?
Processor 3900X
Motherboard ASRock Taichi X570
Cooling Water
Memory 32GB GSkill CL16 3600mhz
Video Card(s) Vega 56
Storage 2 x AData XPG 8200 Pro 1TB
Display(s) 3440 x 1440
Case Thermaltake Tower 900
Power Supply Seasonic Prime Ultra Platinum
It's going to be up to board p[artners to do the soft lifting to make it work. There are too many if ands or buts which is why they said no. But really it is going to come down to the board partners to sort it all out.

My understanding was that it was only an issue based on UEFI rom size.
 

TheLostSwede

News Editor
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Messages
17,656 (2.41/day)
Location
Sweden
System Name Overlord Mk MLI
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard Gigabyte X670E Aorus Master
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 SE with offsets
Memory 32GB Team T-Create Expert DDR5 6000 MHz @ CL30-34-34-68
Video Card(s) Gainward GeForce RTX 4080 Phantom GS
Storage 1TB Solidigm P44 Pro, 2 TB Corsair MP600 Pro, 2TB Kingston KC3000
Display(s) Acer XV272K LVbmiipruzx 4K@160Hz
Case Fractal Design Torrent Compact
Audio Device(s) Corsair Virtuoso SE
Power Supply be quiet! Pure Power 12 M 850 W
Mouse Logitech G502 Lightspeed
Keyboard Corsair K70 Max
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores https://valid.x86.fr/yfsd9w
You don't need an option for that, you can already flash anything you want on your BIOS copies. Typically one copy is used as backup/failsafe, but they don't care which BIOS version they hold. But you'll loose the backup/failsafe if the other copy doesn't support your current CPU.
How do you, as the end user, flash the secondary chip, if there's no switch to select which one to flash?
Normally it seems to be a matter you being able to flash the primary chip, but not the secondary one. I haven't had my secondary one kick in for so long that I don't even remember if gets flashed automagically or doesn't get updated at all.
 

bug

Joined
May 22, 2015
Messages
13,780 (3.96/day)
Processor Intel i5-12600k
Motherboard Asus H670 TUF
Cooling Arctic Freezer 34
Memory 2x16GB DDR4 3600 G.Skill Ripjaws V
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 1060 SC
Storage 500GB Samsung 970 EVO, 500GB Samsung 850 EVO, 1TB Crucial MX300 and 2TB Crucial MX500
Display(s) Dell U3219Q + HP ZR24w
Case Raijintek Thetis
Audio Device(s) Audioquest Dragonfly Red :D
Power Supply Seasonic 620W M12
Mouse Logitech G502 Proteus Core
Keyboard G.Skill KM780R
Software Arch Linux + Win10
That's not reddit. I was referring to when some AMD guy said the opposite of what that pic says, which started this whole shit storm.
You lost me.
 
Joined
Dec 29, 2010
Messages
3,809 (0.75/day)
Processor AMD 5900x
Motherboard Asus x570 Strix-E
Cooling Hardware Labs
Memory G.Skill 4000c17 2x16gb
Video Card(s) RTX 3090
Storage Sabrent
Display(s) Samsung G9
Case Phanteks 719
Audio Device(s) Fiio K5 Pro
Power Supply EVGA 1000 P2
Mouse Logitech G600
Keyboard Corsair K95
My understanding was that it was only an issue based on UEFI rom size.

The main issue is that the early Ryzens do not support ROM over 16mb. These cpus will see a 32MB ROM as two 16MB partitions if you will. That's why I suspect it will come down to how much lifting board partners are going to put into it. There's way too many variables times the cpus out there, times the MB models.
 

bug

Joined
May 22, 2015
Messages
13,780 (3.96/day)
Processor Intel i5-12600k
Motherboard Asus H670 TUF
Cooling Arctic Freezer 34
Memory 2x16GB DDR4 3600 G.Skill Ripjaws V
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 1060 SC
Storage 500GB Samsung 970 EVO, 500GB Samsung 850 EVO, 1TB Crucial MX300 and 2TB Crucial MX500
Display(s) Dell U3219Q + HP ZR24w
Case Raijintek Thetis
Audio Device(s) Audioquest Dragonfly Red :D
Power Supply Seasonic 620W M12
Mouse Logitech G502 Proteus Core
Keyboard G.Skill KM780R
Software Arch Linux + Win10
How do you, as the end user, flash the secondary chip, if there's no switch to select which one to flash?
Normally it seems to be a matter you being able to flash the primary chip, but not the secondary one. I haven't had my secondary one kick in for so long that I don't even remember if gets flashed automagically or doesn't get updated at all.
I'm not sure. I'm running Z170, I haven't flashed in a while...
 
Joined
Mar 22, 2019
Messages
461 (0.22/day)
Location
Western NY, USA
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 3700x
Motherboard Asus ROG Strix X470-F Gaming
Cooling Scythe Ninja 5
Memory G.Skill Ripjaws V 16GB (2 x 8GB) (F4-3600C16D-16GVKC) @ 3733 MHz 16-19-19-19-36-56
Video Card(s) MSI RTX 2060 Super Armor OC 8GB
Storage 1x Samsung 970 EVO 500GB / 3x Crucial MX500 / 4 HDDs
Display(s) Dell 23" LCD S2316M
Case Rosewill Rise Glow
Power Supply CORSAIR RM650
Mouse Cooler Master MS120
Keyboard Cooler Master MS120
Software Windows 10 Pro x64
I Have a question, legit one, might be stupid but if anyone can answer...

My Mobo has Dual Bios (2 16mb chips), a lot of Mobos do. I Can have 2 complete different versions of bions on those 2.
Why not create an option to update the second bios to ZEN3 while using the #1 BIOS for ZEN/ZEN+/ZEN2?
and if you try to boot BIOS#1 with ZEN3 it detects and tryies the BIOS#2...

Is that not possible? too risky? legit question.
It can be done on some motherboards BUT you will need to have the know how to flash the back up (2nd BIOS ROM) separately from the main BIOS ROM.
I did exactly that on a Gigabyte P55A board.
I had a BIOS version that I modified on the main ROM and the original untouched BIOS on the backup ROM.
Mine required using a DOS flash utility and using the correct software switches to flash the back up BIOS.
It did NOT have a physical switch to do that.
 

TheLostSwede

News Editor
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Messages
17,656 (2.41/day)
Location
Sweden
System Name Overlord Mk MLI
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard Gigabyte X670E Aorus Master
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 SE with offsets
Memory 32GB Team T-Create Expert DDR5 6000 MHz @ CL30-34-34-68
Video Card(s) Gainward GeForce RTX 4080 Phantom GS
Storage 1TB Solidigm P44 Pro, 2 TB Corsair MP600 Pro, 2TB Kingston KC3000
Display(s) Acer XV272K LVbmiipruzx 4K@160Hz
Case Fractal Design Torrent Compact
Audio Device(s) Corsair Virtuoso SE
Power Supply be quiet! Pure Power 12 M 850 W
Mouse Logitech G502 Lightspeed
Keyboard Corsair K70 Max
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores https://valid.x86.fr/yfsd9w
My understanding was that it was only an issue based on UEFI rom size.
Well, sort of. I mean, the board makers are also going to have to be willing and it's possible and this is pure speculation, that they approached AMD and said hey, we didn't put large enough flash chips for the UEFI on these boards, so we don't want to support them for your next gen CPUs. Obviously the way it is now, it's down to each board makers to decide which boards may or may not get support, which sort of absolves AMD and the board makers.
 
Joined
Mar 10, 2015
Messages
3,984 (1.12/day)
System Name Wut?
Processor 3900X
Motherboard ASRock Taichi X570
Cooling Water
Memory 32GB GSkill CL16 3600mhz
Video Card(s) Vega 56
Storage 2 x AData XPG 8200 Pro 1TB
Display(s) 3440 x 1440
Case Thermaltake Tower 900
Power Supply Seasonic Prime Ultra Platinum
The main issue is that the early Ryzens do not support ROM over 16mb.

Not necessarily a problem when an early Ryzen is not what is going back in to the board.
 
Joined
Dec 29, 2010
Messages
3,809 (0.75/day)
Processor AMD 5900x
Motherboard Asus x570 Strix-E
Cooling Hardware Labs
Memory G.Skill 4000c17 2x16gb
Video Card(s) RTX 3090
Storage Sabrent
Display(s) Samsung G9
Case Phanteks 719
Audio Device(s) Fiio K5 Pro
Power Supply EVGA 1000 P2
Mouse Logitech G600
Keyboard Corsair K95
Not necessarily a problem when an early Ryzen is not what is going back in to the board.

You are not getting it. The early boards were not made with 32MB ROMS cuz the cpus only addressed up to 16MB. Board partners are going to have to make news bios per MB per needs.
 
Joined
Oct 2, 2015
Messages
3,145 (0.94/day)
Location
Argentina
System Name Ciel / Akane
Processor AMD Ryzen R5 5600X / Intel Core i3 12100F
Motherboard Asus Tuf Gaming B550 Plus / Biostar H610MHP
Cooling ID-Cooling 224-XT Basic / Stock
Memory 2x 16GB Kingston Fury 3600MHz / 2x 8GB Patriot 3200MHz
Video Card(s) Gainward Ghost RTX 3060 Ti / Dell GTX 1660 SUPER
Storage NVMe Kingston KC3000 2TB + NVMe Toshiba KBG40ZNT256G + HDD WD 4TB / NVMe WD Blue SN550 512GB
Display(s) AOC Q27G3XMN / Samsung S22F350
Case Cougar MX410 Mesh-G / Generic
Audio Device(s) Kingston HyperX Cloud Stinger Core 7.1 Wireless PC
Power Supply Aerocool KCAS-500W / Gigabyte P450B
Mouse EVGA X15 / Logitech G203
Keyboard VSG Alnilam / Dell
Software Windows 11
Oh no, get ready for another round of broken BETA BIOS that no one will ever fix.
 
Joined
Feb 18, 2005
Messages
5,847 (0.81/day)
Location
Ikenai borderline!
System Name Firelance.
Processor Threadripper 3960X
Motherboard ROG Strix TRX40-E Gaming
Cooling IceGem 360 + 6x Arctic Cooling P12
Memory 8x 16GB Patriot Viper DDR4-3200 CL16
Video Card(s) MSI GeForce RTX 4060 Ti Ventus 2X OC
Storage 2TB WD SN850X (boot), 4TB Crucial P3 (data)
Display(s) 3x AOC Q32E2N (32" 2560x1440 75Hz)
Case Enthoo Pro II Server Edition (Closed Panel) + 6 fans
Power Supply Fractal Design Ion+ 2 Platinum 760W
Mouse Logitech G602
Keyboard Razer Pro Type Ultra
Software Windows 10 Professional x64
I'm 100% sure this won't turn out to be a s**tshow like everything BIOS-related with AMD before (AGESA stability, MSI 16MB BIOS limits, RX 5600 XT memory OC).
 
Top