Possible 3rd Gen AMD Ryzen "Matisse Refresh" XT SKU Clock Speeds Surface

[kapone32]

Steve has been given the most Golden Sample CPU ever no doubt, Intel is notorious for seeding the very best CPUs for biggest reviewers. Remember Steve from HardwareUnboxed with his 5.2Ghz 24/7 8700K? No-one on Overclock.net owners club could get near that without insane voltages, the average overclock was 4.9-5ghz.

That does not surprise me in the least.

 

[Shatun_Bear]

That does not surprise me in the least.

AMD probably does it, but Intel seem experts in this type of practice and have a long history of doing it. I remember comparing my OC results of two different 6700K's to reviews, I was always 100-200mhz short with ~0.25 extra voltage needed on top.

 

[kapone32]

AMD probably does it, but Intel seem experts in this type of practice and have a long history of doing it. I remember comparing my OC results of two different 6700K's to reviews, I was always 100-200mhz short with ~0.25 extra voltage needed on top.

Exactly and on another scenario I remember about 5 years ago asking a friend at my local PC shop "Why don't I ever hear you guys recommend AMD products" and he told me 2 things that raised my eyebrows.

A. They get bonuses for selling Intel CPUs based on an agreement with the parent company.
B. When new CPUs are released 25% to 30% of the floor staff would get a free I7 and the rest get 25% off buying any Intel CPU/MB they sell.

I am not saying AMD cannot do the same but to me that is unfair and justifies what we see on any post about Intel and the amount of fervor it creates. A funny thing about AMD though. I remember so many reviews for Ryzen saying that they needed 1.4 volts to get a stable 4.0+ GHZ OC. I cannot tell you how many Ryzen builds I have done in the last 3 years but all of them would give me a -100 MHZ vs boost on all core OC with between 1.22 to 1.30 volts (Ryzen3 not included). I can't wait to run the 3300X through it's paces (B550 first) and if the 3600XT is under $300 CAD it (3300X) is going to be going into my Gigabyte Gaming 7 X470 sitting around waiting for a CPU.

I'm talking absolute stability with safe voltages (1.42/1.38/1.32), not the ability to get into windows barely. Most of 1st gen does 3800-3900, 3900-4000 for 2nd gen and about 4150-4300 for 3rd.

My 1700 would do 3.9 GHZ @ 1.3 but the boost clock on that CPU was 3700 MHZ anyway. I will say though that you seem to be referencing launch conditions before the AGESA updates that have helped Ryzen to boost higher. Even the lowly 3000G will happily run at 4 GHZ happily (not using the stock cooler). There have been a few posts specifically about Ryzen boost and those threads show that AMD has improved it;s boost behaviour over time.

 

[Ravenas]

Refreshes aren’t really needed at this target group in my opinion. AMD is already leading the performance per dollar by wide margins across their architecture sans 39xx series. The only XT needed is with those chips.

 

[Super XP]

This should give it a significant enough boost to close the gap or equalize with Intel's offering (in games) if these leaks are true. Those really looking for Zen 2 CPUs should be glad they have more choices now.

That makes total sense. This will also give X370 chipset motherboard owners another upgrade option to look forward too. Seeing how ZEN3 won't work on those older chipsets.

Refreshes aren’t really needed at this target group in my opinion. AMD is already leading the performance per dollar by wide margins across their architecture sans 39xx series. The only XT needed is with those chips.

AMD has an opportunity to replace some of its existing ZEN2 CPUs with faster versions on a more mature node, gaining better performance per watt & dollar. I see nothing wrong with this strategy, it also gives X370 chipset motherboard owners faster option to upgrade too, as I explained above.

 

[Ravenas]

That makes total sense. This will also give X370 chipset motherboard owners another upgrade option to look forward too. Seeing how ZEN3 won't work on those older chipsets.


AMD has an opportunity to replace some of its existing ZEN2 CPUs with faster versions on a more mature node, gaining better performance per watt & dollar. I see nothing wrong with this strategy, it also gives X370 chipset motherboard owners faster option to upgrade too, as I explained above.

I disagree with the thought process. Why focus on giving customers more performance per dollar on already performance per dollar kings if the performance won't significantly boost above power hungry and outdated Intel products?

 

[Super XP]

If these refreshes are true, A) great much needed increase in speed. B) the launch of Zen3, is probably next year.

ZEN3 is scheduled for a 2020 release. AMD has said this over and over again,

I disagree with the thought process. Why focus on giving customers more performance per dollar on already performance per dollar kings if the performance won't significantly boost above power hungry and outdated Intel products?

This all probably has to do with what deal or arrangement AMD & TSMC have agreed upon.
Here's 3 reasons AMD is probably releasing such offerings, which IMO is a strategic move & a very smart move.
1) AMD is responding to Intel's latest release, basically sticking it to Intel before the humongous IPC increase ZEN3 is going to have over ZEN2 clock for clock. lol
2) AMD knows they messed up the whole Socket AM4 debacle, by not supporting the x370 chipset, even though they clearly said they will support Socket AM4 to 2020. These faster processors now give better upgrade options to those that are on X370.
3) AMD has been working on ZEN2 mobile, tweaking it and now they are taking that and putting it onto the desktop. If you have a faster more efficient ZEN2 version, the logical choice is to go with that.

And on a side note, you can't think that way with regards to Intel, because any breathing room AMD gives Intel is not a good idea, as soon as Intel has something solid to work with, they will come out stronger than what they did back when they released Core design and almost put AMD out of business.

 

[Ravenas]

ZEN3 is scheduled for a 2020 release. AMD has said this over and over again,


This all probably has to do with what deal or arrangement AMD & TSMC have agreed upon.
Here's 3 reasons AMD is probably releasing such offerings, which IMO is a strategic move & a very smart move.
1) AMD is responding to Intel's latest release, basically sticking it to Intel before the humongous IPC increase ZEN3 is going to have over ZEN2 clock for clock. lol
2) AMD knows they messed up the whole Socket AM4 debacle, by not supporting the x370 chipset, even though they clearly said they will support Socket AM4 to 2020. These faster processors now give better upgrade options to those that are on X370.
3) AMD has been working on ZEN2 mobile, tweaking it and now they are taking that and putting it onto the desktop. If you have a faster more efficient ZEN2 version, the logical choice is to go with that.

And on a side note, you can't think that way with regards to Intel, because any breathing room AMD gives Intel is not a good idea, as soon as Intel has something solid to work with, they will come out stronger than what they did back when they released Core design and almost put AMD out of business.

AMD doesn’t need a refresh to “stick it to Intel”. They have been sticking it to Intel for last 5 years in a gaming desktop environment that Intel started to ignore because it was an uncompetitive environment. This wasn’t because AMD developed some amazing R&D path, rather because they finally committed to going fabless (which even Intel is considering now). Apple pushed TSMC to become the premier fab, other companies are just further growth for TSMC

As to whether they have contracted space with TSMC, probably so. Is the refresh part of that contract obligation? We can’t answer that, however, Apple and Nvidia both operate in this environment so there may be an increasing amount of limited space due to both of the prior companies approaching new launches.

As for making up promises to last gen AMD platforms, true and good for AMD.

Still, those things considered, I don’t see the point of a refresh sans 39xx models.

 

[Super XP]

AMD doesn’t need a refresh to “stick it to Intel”. They have been sticking it to Intel for last 5 years in a gaming desktop environment that Intel started to ignore because it was an uncompetitive environment. This wasn’t because AMD developed some amazing R&D path, rather because they finally committed to going fabless (which even Intel is considering now). Apple pushed TSMC to become the premier fab, other companies are just further growth for TSMC

As to whether they have contracted space with TSMC, probably so. Is the refresh part of that contract obligation? We can’t answer that, however, Apple and Nvidia both operate in this environment so there may be an increasing amount of limited space due to both of the prior companies approaching new launches.

As for making up promises to last gen AMD platforms, true and good for AMD.

Still, those things considered, I don’t see the point of a refresh sans 39xx models.

Fair enough.
Since we are on the topic, another logical explanation could be a response to Intel's 10th Gen Comet Lake CPUs which have launched recently.

 

[Ruru]

So they are making a good product even better? Nothing to complain IMO. Remember the fact that Comedy Lakes are just Skylake 5.0 with moar cores and 14nm+++++++ cpus.

 

[Super XP]

So they are making a good product even better? Nothing to complain IMO. Remember the fact that Comedy Lakes are just Skylake 5.0 with moar cores and 14nm+++++++ cpus.

That's basically my point, solid products already out, and now going to release even better products just to spice up the CPU industry a bit, till the ZEN3 monster comes.

 

[CoolRonZ]

Ya i bought a 3600x over a 3600 just for the little better boost and borderlands 3 also essentially paid the price difference. so ya the 300mhz over my 3600x sounds interesting. like going from a 920 C0 to a 920 D0/930... personally im interested in a 3800XT or an 8 core Zen3 part, but no hurry for me. For the 3 games I own that get 3 FPS better just doesn't make sense for me to need more honestly. And I dont play CS:GO... lol

 

[heflys20]

That's basically my point, solid products already out, and now going to release even better products just to spice up the CPU industry a bit, till the ZEN3 monster comes.

I guess they just wanted to piss on Intel's cornflakes. I'm hoping AMD lowers prices slightly when these updates release; but, looking at the performance vs dollar of these recent Intel releases, who am i kidding?

 

[AusWolf]

Nice clock bumps, but who cares when Ryzen 3 is just around the corner?

 

[Octopuss]

Plenty of people.

 

[Super XP]

Nice clock bumps, but who cares when Ryzen 3 is just around the corner?

You probably mean ZEN3 which would be Ryzen 4000 series, because Ryzen 3 is already out for some time now.

 

[BiggieShady]

I guess they just wanted to piss on Intel's cornflakes.

Nah, it's just the part of the binning process with increasing yields as 7nm node matures, when the top bin starts giving you 200MHz over the baseline, you just make new SKUs, simple as that

 

[matar]

3950 XT with 5GHZ boost will be a dream...

 

[heflys20]

Nah, it's just the part of the binning process with increasing yields as 7nm node matures, when the top bin starts giving you 200MHz over the baseline, you just make new SKUs, simple as that

Very true. Should've thought of that.

 

[wolfsen]

Have you ever seen zen 2 part in wild that boosts to 4800? Cmon guys, theres legendary 1700x on forums with 4150 all core on air but not this. It's not happening.
Also, ryzens clocks aren't the biggest issue, you can learn it from ln2 benchmarks at 5000+ all core, it's still behind Intel in games bc of IF limitations.
Also min framerate aren't dependent on max boost clocks bc it shows what's happening when game puts tonna load on 1 or multiple cores. At this moments cpu clock is far lower max boost values

Boost frequency is determined by BIOS, even with the best possible chip and cooling, you will never boost higher than what your BIOS decided. Howether, you can see a lot more Ryzen CPUs reaching 4.4-4.5ghz on all cores while the first ones were barrely reaching 4.2ghz which means that the silicon really improved and that a new BIOS can probably make them boost higher.

I disagree with the thought process. Why focus on giving customers more performance per dollar on already performance per dollar kings if the performance won't significantly boost above power hungry and outdated Intel products?

Why wouldn't you make new CPUs that you can sell a bit higher at almost no cost by simply binning the best chips from your production instead of selling them at the same price ? 3600x and 3800x were made for this same reason.

 

[Patriot]

ZEN3 is scheduled for a 2020 release. AMD has said this over and over again,

Zen 3 Epyc Milan by late 2020

Ryzen before end of... 2021, hence refresh.

Ryzen 4000 will launch this year... as Zen 2 APU.

 

[Super XP]

Zen 3 Epyc Milan by late 2020

Ryzen before end of... 2021, hence refresh.

Ryzen 4000 will launch this year... as Zen 2 APU.

Lets get the confusion out in the open so even you can understand what's going to happen in late 2020.

ZEN3 Vermeer Desktop CPUs (NON APUs) and Radeon RX RDNA2 GPUs (Big Navi) coming October 2020. Lets not confuse ZEN2 Desktop APUs with discrete ZEN3 Desktop CPUs without integrated graphics OK. Not sure why people continually misinterperate information lol

June 10, 2020
Next Gen Ryzen 4000 Vermeer desktop ZEN3 & RDNA2 Big Navi graphics coming in October 2020

AMD's Next-Gen Ryzen 4000 'Vermeer' Desktop CPUs With Zen 3 & Radeon RX 'Big Navi' Graphics Cards With RDNA 2 Coming In October 2020

AMD's next-gen Zen 3 based Ryzen 4000 'Vermeer' Desktop CPUs & RDNA 2 GPU based Radeon RX Big Navi graphics cards are coming in October.

wccftech.com

June 9, 2020
Supermicro's new generation of CPUs and GPUs grab 4 business opportunities in the 2nd half of the year - AMD Zen 3 & RDNA2

超微新一代CPU、GPU搶下半年商機 4檔按讚 - 財經

處理器大廠美商超微（AMD）下半年將發表新一代Zen 3架構中央處理器（CPU）及RDNA 2架構繪圖處理器（GPU），近期開始增加對台積電7奈米投片，下半年投片量將逐季拉升，搶攻中國十一長假及年底聖誕節等傳統終端個人電

www.chinatimes.com

January 2020
Dr. Lisa Su confirms AMD Zen 3 CPUs will definitely be released in 2020
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/em3ljn

 

[Patriot]

I am not sure why people continually misinterpret information.

Lisa Su has always been incredibly careful in her wording in order to give maximum flexibility to AMD and yet remain true.

She has said Zen 3 will launch by end of 2020, and only 1 product has to launch for that to be true.
Roadmaps given in june show that is Epyc not Ryzen.
Chinese links that cant differentiate between Supermicro a server vendor and AMD may have old information or AMD may manage to get the desktop launch off.
Either way, Saying Zen 3 launches in 2020, and Ryzen 4000 launches in 2020 Does not mean Zen3 based Ryzen launches in 2020... Stop hearing what you want to hear and listen to what has been said.

 

[ARF]

Zen 3 Epyc Milan by late 2020

Ryzen before end of... 2021, hence refresh.

Ryzen 4000 will launch this year... as Zen 2 APU.

These slides are old.
AMD confirmed back in August 2019 that the DESIGN phase of Zen 3 was complete.

AMD Designing Zen 4 for 2021, Zen 3 Completes Design Phase, out in 2020

AMD Designing Zen 4 for 2021, Zen 3 Completes Design Phase, out in 2020

AMD in its 2nd generation EPYC processor launch event announced that it has completed the design phase of its next-generation "Zen 3" CPU microarchitecture, and is currently working on its successor, the "Zen 4." AMD debuted its "Zen 2" microarchitecture with the client-segment 3rd generation...

www.techpowerup.com

 

[Super XP]

I am not sure why people continually misinterpret information.

Lisa Su has always been incredibly careful in her wording in order to give maximum flexibility to AMD and yet remain true.

She has said Zen 3 will launch by end of 2020, and only 1 product has to launch for that to be true.
Roadmaps given in june show that is Epyc not Ryzen.
Chinese links that cant differentiate between Supermicro a server vendor and AMD may have old information or AMD may manage to get the desktop launch off.
Either way, Saying Zen 3 launches in 2020, and Ryzen 4000 launches in 2020 Does not mean Zen3 based Ryzen launches in 2020... Stop hearing what you want to hear and listen to what has been said.

We will have to agree to disagree.
You are getting confused with ZEN2 APUs and ZEN3 Desktop CPUs.

By the end of 2020, we will see what takes place.
AMD has a performance lead, releasing ZEN3 in 2021 as you suggest is silly.

Here's more confirmation reported by a trusted source.

AMD Confirms Zen 3 and RDNA2 by Late-2020

AMD in its post Q1-2020 earnings release disclosures stated that the company is "on track" to launching its next-generation "Zen 3" CPU microarchitecture and RDNA2 graphics architecture in late-2020. The company did not reveal in what shape or form the two will debut. AMD is readying "Zen 3"...

www.techpowerup.com