The Curious Case of the 12-pin Power Connector: It's Real and Coming with NVIDIA Ampere GPUs

[Fluffmeister]

Turing is two years old, it's already died of boredom waiting for Big Navi to beat it to death.

 

[Chrispy_]

Turing is two years old, it's already died of boredom waiting for Big Navi to beat it to death.

Yeah, but Turing was beaten to death by Little Navi at under $400. Hell, the $375 or so that the 2060 is going for is a joke because it can't raytrace well enough to matter and it's no faster than a 5600XT which is two price tiers below it.

Even in 2019 there was no excuse for a card costing $350 to not have at least 8GB RAM, and the $350 founders edition was as rare as hen's teeth with all of the partner cards coming in at $370-$410. For a 6GB card? Ouch!

Without Navi, Nvidia would have continued to take the piss with such stellar values as the $600 2070FE. The "Super" lineup and price cuts were Nvidia's answer to Navi. They didn't upgrade all their shader counts and reduce prices out of the goodness of their hearts or charity, that's not how businesses run....

 

[Fluffmeister]

The joys of a free market, how profound.

 

[medi01]

But this time there are AMD APU's in all the consoles that matter, and the whole Radeon marketing team has been changed. So I reckon they might have something resembling a strategy.

Poor Volta was actually hilaroius.
It's not marketing team, but product development team that failed to deliver.

AMD seems to have stopped saying things just because some kids want to hear them.

offered better performance/Watt and performance/Transistor

AMD was also cramming more transistors into the same area on the same process, but running them at lower clocks (e.g. Polaris). It has changed with Vega/Navi.

The joys of a free market

Is on other side when monopolies or, often, even duopolies are involved.

 

[cucker tarlson]

4:50

AIBs are still going for 2x8-pin,3x8-pin for the overclocking versions

 

[Th3pwn3r]

I should have worded things a bit differently. What I meant was in terms of current hardware generation wise. Nvidia's offerings are ancient while AMD are brand new. It would be cool if latest gen were released from Nvidia and AMD at the same time. I'm not biased, I buy whatever performs the best with no budget for my main rig and I buy whatever offers best performance per dollar for my other machines if I choose not to use what's in storage.

 

[Vayra86]

I should have worded things a bit differently. What I meant was in terms of current hardware generation wise. Nvidia's offerings are ancient while AMD are brand new. It would be cool if latest gen were released from Nvidia and AMD at the same time. I'm not biased, I buy whatever performs the best with no budget for my main rig and I buy whatever offers best performance per dollar for my other machines if I choose not to use what's in storage.

Well the latest is that they're at least going to be about a quarter apart in release schedule, but we can also count on AMD not having AIB versions ready at launch, and you can rest assured Nvidia will open the full barrage of that close to launch.

Yeah, but Turing was beaten to death by Little Navi at under $400. Hell, the $375 or so that the 2060 is going for is a joke because it can't raytrace well enough to matter and it's no faster than a 5600XT which is two price tiers below it.

Even in 2019 there was no excuse for a card costing $350 to not have at least 8GB RAM, and the $350 founders edition was as rare as hen's teeth with all of the partner cards coming in at $370-$410. For a 6GB card? Ouch!

Without Navi, Nvidia would have continued to take the piss with such stellar values as the $600 2070FE. The "Super" lineup and price cuts were Nvidia's answer to Navi. They didn't upgrade all their shader counts and reduce prices out of the goodness of their hearts or charity, that's not how businesses run....

The whole Super line up was not so much a response to Navi, it was a response to shareholders and overall Turing reception. Initially, that is. The later tweaks were definitely responses in terms of price point. But to think Super exists because Navi is Navi... please. Nvidia doesn't need AMD to release updated cards. And SUPER is pretty competitive to Navi.

Also... let's turn this around. We can moan about 6GB, but what about die size, hm? Navi is what... 255mm2. A 2060 is twice as big. Why pay nearly 400 for something with much better yields?

 

[cucker tarlson]

nvidia releases stuff early,amd releases stuff late.
it's amd what need to haul ass

Well the latest is that they're at least going to be about a quarter apart in release schedule, but we can also count on AMD not having AIB versions ready at launch, and you can rest assured Nvidia will open the full barrage of that close to launch.

and a reference that doesn't suck

I like what nvidia are doing with FE coolers on rtx2000
it drives aib prices down.

example:
my 2070s trio is the best cooler tpu ever tested.it cost me 2560 while fe was 2400.
meanwhile 5700xt reference was 1900pln,but decent aibs were 2200 pln.
see the markup ? percentage wise it's twice as big on amd partner cards

 

[Vayra86]

example:
my 2070s trio is the best cooler tpu ever tested.it cost me 2560 while fe was 2400.
meanwhile 5700xt reference was 1900pln,but decent aibs were 2200 pln.
see the markup ? percentage wise it's twice as big on amd partner cards

Initially, FE was a tweak to push AIB prices up. Not sure what idea you are trying to sell here. The mark up exists and FE caused it. Now that the mark up is in effect we say 'oh look its almost the same price'... yeah Its also one LOCAL example of one generation. Let's go into wait mode on that one... because so far the net result of FE is certainly not that AIBs got cheaper. The price point for each tier has gone up. Maybe what you want to say is that FE sets a price guide as a hard item in the market, which keeps things somewhat under control.... except it never really did so far in any tangible way. But theoretically... yes.

All I read out of your example above here is that quality solutions are priced accordingly, both in Navi and Turing's cases. Navi stock cooler = shit value. AIB coolers = good value. Nvidia's FE which is also open air = good value, but not quite as good as the best tested one.

 

[cucker tarlson]

Initially, FE was a tweak to push AIB prices up. Not sure what idea you are trying to sell here. The mark up exists and FE caused it. Now that the mark up is in effect we say 'oh look its almost the same price'... yeah Its also one LOCAL example of one generation. Let's go into wait mode on that one... because so far the net result of FE is certainly not that AIBs got cheaper. The price point for each tier has gone up. Maybe what you want to say is that FE sets a price guide as a hard item in the market, which keeps things somewhat under control.... except it never really did so far in any tangible way. But theoretically... yes.

not a local example
msrp on fe was 500 and on trio it was 515
entry level aibs were 500

you get the idea of "what I'm selling" ?
now check 5700xt msrp
$40 premium over a $400 card for a good aib

 

[Vayra86]

not a local example
msrp on fe was 500 and on trio it was 515
entry level aibs were 500

you get the idea of "what I'm selling" ?
now check 5700xt msrp
$40 premium over a $400 card for a good aib

Yeah, so how do you defend the statement that AIB price levels are lower because of the FE? Their bottom end is priced like an FE now, which is pretty close to a top end card. So for most customers, the net result is their GPU got more expensive, not cheaper.

 

[cucker tarlson]

Yeah, so how do you defend the statement that AIB price levels are lower because of the FE?

by looking at the numbers maybe
you pay a lower % markup on best 2070s cooler than best 5700xt coolers like nitro

15 bucks on a 500 card vs 20-40 dollars on a 400 card ?

how do I make it easier for you ?

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

not a local example
msrp on fe was 500 and on trio it was 515
entry level aibs were 500

you get the idea of "what I'm selling" ?
now check 5700xt msrp
$40 premium over a $400 card for a good aib

2070super 489-699£ 5700Xt 369-469£. Scan UK now.

Since when did one price statement suit reality.

 

[cucker tarlson]

2070super 489-699£ 5700Xt 369-469£. Scan UK now.

Since when did one price statement suit reality.

I said I was comparing msrps provided in tpu reviews you may wanna start reading before our conversation blows up into a 5 page long spat

PowerColor Radeon RX 5700 XT Red Devil Review

The PowerColor Radeon RX 5700 XT Red Devil is overclocked out of the box and uses a massive triple-slot, triple-fan cooler that delivers outstanding noise levels. It's actually the quietest Radeon card we ever tested, and quieter than all NVIDIA RTX cards except for one custom-design.

www.techpowerup.com

MSI Radeon RX 5700 XT Gaming X Review

The factory-overclocked MSI Radeon RX 5700 XT Gaming X is a large triple-slot, dual-fan design with a completely new cooler that achieves the best temperatures of all Navi cards we've tested so far. Even at its low temperatures, the card runs very quietly, and idle-fan-stop is included, too.

www.techpowerup.com

Sapphire Radeon RX 5700 XT Nitro+ Review

Sapphire's Radeon RX 5700 XT Nitro+ is the company's flagship Navi card. It comes with a large triple-slot, triple-fan cooler that runs quiet and cool. Adjustable RGB lighting and fan-stop is included, too. A unique addition is the ability to control the dual BIOS switch through software.

www.techpowerup.com

40-50 dollar markup on a 400 card vs $15 for 2070 super trio

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

I said I was comparing msrps provided in tpu reviews you may wanna start reading before our conversation blows up into a 5 page long spat

PowerColor Radeon RX 5700 XT Red Devil Review

The PowerColor Radeon RX 5700 XT Red Devil is overclocked out of the box and uses a massive triple-slot, triple-fan cooler that delivers outstanding noise levels. It's actually the quietest Radeon card we ever tested, and quieter than all NVIDIA RTX cards except for one custom-design.

www.techpowerup.com

MSI Radeon RX 5700 XT Gaming X Review

The factory-overclocked MSI Radeon RX 5700 XT Gaming X is a large triple-slot, dual-fan design with a completely new cooler that achieves the best temperatures of all Navi cards we've tested so far. Even at its low temperatures, the card runs very quietly, and idle-fan-stop is included, too.

www.techpowerup.com

Sapphire Radeon RX 5700 XT Nitro+ Review

Sapphire's Radeon RX 5700 XT Nitro+ is the company's flagship Navi card. It comes with a large triple-slot, triple-fan cooler that runs quiet and cool. Adjustable RGB lighting and fan-stop is included, too. A unique addition is the ability to control the dual BIOS switch through software.

www.techpowerup.com

40-50 dollar markup on a 400 card vs $15 for 2070 super trio

You may wanna stop implying stuff about others you can't know.

I read your comments, but feel the price of one card on day one means nothing to anyone now.

So I checked up , provided facts, and there you go staying calm

Stop grabbing at one offs like they're the law too.

 

[cucker tarlson]

You may wanna stop implying stuff about others you can't know.

I read your comments, but feel the price of one card on day one means nothing to anyone now.

So I checked up , provided facts, and there you go staying calm

Stop grabbing at one offs like they're the law too.

so official msrp is a one off
but one store in one country at one given time is "the law"

good grief
you can't be taught

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

so official msrp is a one off
but one store in one country at one given time is "the law"

good grief
you can't be taught

Your use of language tut.

It was an example , your just pushing your same Nvidia best mantra with release price's, which I think ridiculous.

No need to teach or preach ,and what right anyway.

 

[Shatun_Bear]

Nvidia card prices in shops are extortionate, anyone trying to argue they're not needs to get off the green koolaid.

 

[cucker tarlson]

Nvidia card prices in shops are extortionate, anyone trying to argue they're not needs to get off the green koolaid.

they are
wasn't my point at all

my point was,the better the reference model,the harder aibs have to try to sell theirs.

 

[medi01]

Super line up was not so much a response to Navi

Denial - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Vayra86]

my point was,the better the reference model,the harder aibs have to try to sell theirs.

Thát is what I said too, in fact. But its not what you said. AIB models didn't get better because of the FE. The FE just positions itself higher in the price stack. But initially (Pascal), the FE was simply a markup - and AIBs did position their cards below it, and comparable cards to a Trio were priced royally above an FE. That is why I said the single example says nothing, because it doesn't exist in isolation.

The comparison to Navi reference is also unfair because Navi reference is pretty shit, its comparable to the initial FE, more so than the current one. The two aren't the same thing.

So we can be all 'oh my its so cheap compared to XYZ' but what really happens is 'you get what you pay for'.

 

[cucker tarlson]

The comparison to Navi reference is also unfair because Navi reference is pretty shit, its comparable to the initial FE, more so than the current one. The two aren't the same thing.

it is fair.the shittier the reference,the higher the markup on quality partner coolers.

 

[Vayra86]

it is fair.the shittier the reference,the higher the markup on quality partner coolers.

Alright, then we are in full agreement after all, let's leave it there lol

 

[cucker tarlson]

Alright, then we are in full agreement after all, let's leave it there lol

that was my point from the very beginning

 

[Saabjock]

Most people do not have a lot of room between the forward end of their videocard and the front of the case. Positioning the connector there may pose a few issues with case fitment.