• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 Ti Founders Edition

Joined
Feb 20, 2019
Messages
8,339 (3.91/day)
System Name Bragging Rights
Processor Atom Z3735F 1.33GHz
Motherboard It has no markings but it's green
Cooling No, it's a 2.2W processor
Memory 2GB DDR3L-1333
Video Card(s) Gen7 Intel HD (4EU @ 311MHz)
Storage 32GB eMMC and 128GB Sandisk Extreme U3
Display(s) 10" IPS 1280x800 60Hz
Case Veddha T2
Audio Device(s) Apparently, yes
Power Supply Samsung 18W 5V fast-charger
Mouse MX Anywhere 2
Keyboard Logitech MX Keys (not Cherry MX at all)
VR HMD Samsung Oddyssey, not that I'd plug it into this though....
Software W10 21H1, barely
Benchmark Scores I once clocked a Celeron-300A to 564MHz on an Abit BE6 and it scored over 9000.
Just imagine if Samsung said: 1280x720 is enough for mobile users, we should convince them if they want more resolutions, they should pay more and do not complain about higher prices
Or if Qualcomm said same thing about processors
or if Apple said 4" is enough, people should not convince themselves to use bigger screen, bigger screens are more expensive, their production is costly.
do you see now how your poor your point is?
I've had a 4K screen for gaming for most of this decade and ignoring the fact that it's been costly to keep it up to date with higher-tier graphics cards, I do not think that many games justify the extra resolution. You can still see polygon edges, 2D shader effects, and plenty of textures aren't really 4K assets even in AAA 2020 titles.

What 4K gives us is less aliasing and slightly crisper fine detail in the distance, but it sure as hell isn't a make-or-break feature, even in ridiculously pretty games like HZD. I prefer to run games at 1080p60 with everything cranked to the max, rather than 4K60 and hope that my hardware can maintain that minimum 16ms frametime for EVERY frame without fail or spend half an hour messing around with graphics settings to see what I need to disable to get stutter-free 4K60 gameplay.

IMO the sweet spot right now is 1440p144Hz and that's what my main desktop runs. 1440p is much closer to 1080p than it is to 4K, but the extra fluidity of 100Hz+ is well worth the drop in resolution.
 
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
Messages
4,378 (0.67/day)
Location
Hurst, Texas
System Name The86
Processor Ryzen 5 3600
Motherboard ASROCKS B450 Steel Legend
Cooling AMD Stealth
Memory 2x8gb DDR4 3200 Corsair
Video Card(s) EVGA RTX 3060 Ti
Storage WD Black 512gb, WD Blue 1TB
Display(s) AOC 24in
Case Raidmax Alpha Prime
Power Supply 700W Thermaltake Smart
Mouse Logitech Mx510
Keyboard Razer BlackWidow 2012
Software Windows 10 Professional
Nope. Please re-read - though there were a few details I left out: a core tenet of this approach is checking real-world power draws, in other words the numbers for the GPU you're planning to buy. Not generic numbers, not FE numbers (unless you're buying the FE), not total system power numbers. If you plan to OC, obviously factor that in, but the vast majority don't OC, and besides, the 20% total overhead is typically sufficient to account for that. Getting a higher end CPU doesn't make that much of a difference - CPU power draws scale far less than GPU power draws, except for the past two generations of Intel chips, of course (though even those are far from their peak draws while gaming). But again, the 20% headroom accounts for that.

USB devices generally consume little power, and are unlikely to be in heavy use while the PC is under heavy load, like a game being run. The same goes for drives - and as I said, the average gaming PC today has a single SSD and possibly a HDD. HDD peak power draw happens only during spin-up, so the chances of that happening during gaming is ... tiny. In-use power for a 7200rpm 3.5" HDD is <10W. But more importantly: cumulative power numbers adds a lot of invisible headroom. Gaming never stresses both CPU and GPU to their maximum power draw, let alone the rest of the system. So if you have a peak 90W CPU and a peak 150W GPU, you're never going to see 240W from those two components while gaming. Games don't load the whole PC 100%. So in real-world usage scenarios those additional 20% are already on top of built-in headroom.

That is definitely above average, if not uncommon. As I said, most PC builds these days have a single SSD, and maybe an HDD. Two years ago HDDs were ubiquitous, but not today. Mice and keyboards consume maybe a few watts each - they need to be USB 2.0 compliant, which means 2.5W max, though typically much less unless they have excessively bright RGB. Desktop USB-C ports output a maximum of 15W (5V3A) - that's all the specification allows for without an external PSU. And your HDD again might peak at 20W, but is more likely to be idling at 1-3W or running at 5-10W while the PC is being stressed.


The thing is, even with your additional numbers, you get nowhere near 650W. Not even close. The 3070 is a 220W (240W peak) GPU. Add a ~150W CPU, ~25W for the motherboard and RAM, 20W for a couple of drives, 20W for a few fans and an AIO pump, and another 10W for peripherals, and you get 465W, or 558W with a 20% margin. And again, that system will never, ever consume 465W. Never. That's not how PCs work. Every single component is never under full stress at the same time, even for a millisecond, let alone long enough for it to trip the PSU's OCP. And remember, that's with a 150W CPU, not a 95W or 65W one. There is, in other words, plenty of headroom built into these numbers already. For any other 3070 than the FE, exchange 240W in the calculation with its peak power draw. It really isn't hard.

Not true fs2020 will max cpu and gpu it's the new furmark + prime95 for torturing your comp
 
Joined
Jun 18, 2015
Messages
578 (0.17/day)
I've had a 4K screen for gaming for most of this decade and ignoring the fact that it's been costly to keep it up to date with higher-tier graphics cards, I do not think that many games justify the extra resolution. You can still see polygon edges, 2D shader effects, and plenty of textures aren't really 4K assets even in AAA 2020 titles.

What 4K gives us is less aliasing and find detail in the distance, but it sure as hell isn't a make-or-break feature and I prefer to run games at 1080p60 with everything cranked to the max, rather than 4K60 and hope that my hardware can maintain that minimum 16ms frametime for EVERY frame without fail or spend half an hour messing around with graphics settings to see what I need to disable to get stutter-free 4K60 gameplay.

IMO the sweet spot right now is 1440p144Hz and that's what my main desktop runs. 1440p is much closer to 1080p than it is to 4K, but the extra fluidity of 100Hz+ is well worth the drop in resolution.
Anything higher than 720 for mobile is not noticable as well, but competition and high demand in phone market had the phone devices develop so quick and fast even that most phones now have features specs that is way higher than what actually this device need. Same thing would've been done in PC world too, All peoples would've been using 4k 144hz mintors by now if the market wasnt dominated by (until recently) Intel and Nvidia. We've been using the same Intel CPU technology for almost 10 yeras. And Nvidia has been giving almost the same FPS per Dollar for almost five years. These two firms are the only reason that PCs are not evolving the same way they were evolving before or the same way mobile devices are evolving.
Only CPUs and GPUs are preventing evoluition of the PC. Moore's law has been present in almost all parts, Monitors, 4k 120hz monitors now are not more expensive that what 1080p 120hz was 10 years ago. Same thing can be said for HDDs, SSDs, etc.
 
Joined
Feb 23, 2019
Messages
6,106 (2.87/day)
Location
Poland
Processor Ryzen 7 5800X3D
Motherboard Gigabyte X570 Aorus Elite
Cooling Thermalright Phantom Spirit 120 SE
Memory 2x16 GB Crucial Ballistix 3600 CL16 Rev E @ 3600 CL14
Video Card(s) RTX3080 Ti FE
Storage SX8200 Pro 1 TB, Plextor M6Pro 256 GB, WD Blue 2TB
Display(s) LG 34GN850P-B
Case SilverStone Primera PM01 RGB
Audio Device(s) SoundBlaster G6 | Fidelio X2 | Sennheiser 6XX
Power Supply SeaSonic Focus Plus Gold 750W
Mouse Endgame Gear XM1R
Keyboard Wooting Two HE
Didn't even bother to check availability at launch. A lot of prebuilds are listed at various online retailers. They all have "Nvidia 3060 Ti" listed, no AIB partner mentioned so I guess you don't really know which card you will get. I guess stores decided to scalp actual customers prevent scalping by focusing on prebuilds.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2019
Messages
415 (0.22/day)
Location
NYC, NY
I waited on line at Microcenter from 8:10AM till open at 9AM.

There were 20 people ahead of me (at least).

They snapped up the FE cards, but I managed to get the FTW3.

They had more than enough 3rd party cards including Eagle, Aorus, MSI trio, etc.
 
Joined
May 2, 2017
Messages
7,762 (2.78/day)
Location
Back in Norway
System Name Hotbox
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X, 110/95/110, PBO +150Mhz, CO -7,-7,-20(x6),
Motherboard ASRock Phantom Gaming B550 ITX/ax
Cooling LOBO + Laing DDC 1T Plus PWM + Corsair XR5 280mm + 2x Arctic P14
Memory 32GB G.Skill FlareX 3200c14 @3800c15
Video Card(s) PowerColor Radeon 6900XT Liquid Devil Ultimate, UC@2250MHz max @~200W
Storage 2TB Adata SX8200 Pro
Display(s) Dell U2711 main, AOC 24P2C secondary
Case SSUPD Meshlicious
Audio Device(s) Optoma Nuforce μDAC 3
Power Supply Corsair SF750 Platinum
Mouse Logitech G603
Keyboard Keychron K3/Cooler Master MasterKeys Pro M w/DSA profile caps
Software Windows 10 Pro
Not true fs2020 will max cpu and gpu it's the new furmark + prime95 for torturing your comp
Nah - FS2020 is far more taxing than the average game, and it does spawn a lot of threads, but all of those threads don't load their cores to 100%, and definitely not with power-hungry workloads. It is - like most games, just to a higher degree - limited by a couple of high performance threads, it just scales slightly better than average with more cores. It's more important to have a few fast cores than many cores, which speaks against it loading all threads with heavy workloads.
 
Joined
Feb 23, 2019
Messages
6,106 (2.87/day)
Location
Poland
Processor Ryzen 7 5800X3D
Motherboard Gigabyte X570 Aorus Elite
Cooling Thermalright Phantom Spirit 120 SE
Memory 2x16 GB Crucial Ballistix 3600 CL16 Rev E @ 3600 CL14
Video Card(s) RTX3080 Ti FE
Storage SX8200 Pro 1 TB, Plextor M6Pro 256 GB, WD Blue 2TB
Display(s) LG 34GN850P-B
Case SilverStone Primera PM01 RGB
Audio Device(s) SoundBlaster G6 | Fidelio X2 | Sennheiser 6XX
Power Supply SeaSonic Focus Plus Gold 750W
Mouse Endgame Gear XM1R
Keyboard Wooting Two HE
Anyone from Europe can verify if Nvidia has the FE listed on their local site? Here it is not even listed.
 
Joined
Jan 27, 2015
Messages
1,746 (0.48/day)
System Name Legion
Processor i7-12700KF
Motherboard Asus Z690-Plus TUF Gaming WiFi D5
Cooling Arctic Liquid Freezer 2 240mm AIO
Memory PNY MAKO DDR5-6000 C36-36-36-76
Video Card(s) PowerColor Hellhound 6700 XT 12GB
Storage WD SN770 512GB m.2, Samsung 980 Pro m.2 2TB
Display(s) Acer K272HUL 1440p / 34" MSI MAG341CQ 3440x1440
Case Montech Air X
Power Supply Corsair CX750M
Mouse Logitech MX Anywhere 25
Keyboard Logitech MX Keys
Software Lots
Nah - FS2020 is far more taxing than the average game, and it does spawn a lot of threads, but all of those threads don't load their cores to 100%, and definitely not with power-hungry workloads. It is - like most games, just to a higher degree - limited by a couple of high performance threads, it just scales slightly better than average with more cores. It's more important to have a few fast cores than many cores, which speaks against it loading all threads with heavy workloads.

I've seen this type of thread before and I know what happens. Some poor slob buys into the napkin math and a couple months later there are posts about system rebooting and funny electrical smells, traced back to the PSU.

Tellling people they're fine with under-rated PSUs based on not having a hard drive, not adding SSDs, not having anything connected to their USB ports, not having a PCI-e network adapter and so on assumes they don't or will never have those use cases. The recommended numbers are for a person to be able to fully utilize the connectivity in their PC without fear of instability. Adding say WiFi 6 and a backup USB drive should not result in a failing rig and $100 wasted on the wrong PSU.

And that manufacturer rec is this :

Capture.JPG
 
Joined
Nov 5, 2020
Messages
26 (0.02/day)
I waited on line at Microcenter from 8:10AM till open at 9AM.

There were 20 people ahead of me (at least).

They snapped up the FE cards, but I managed to get the FTW3.

They had more than enough 3rd party cards including Eagle, Aorus, MSI trio, etc.

Microcenter near me still has a few left in stock. Hopefully that means the scalpers aren’t that interested.
 
Joined
Dec 31, 2009
Messages
19,371 (3.54/day)
Benchmark Scores Faster than yours... I'd bet on it. :)
I've seen this type of thread before and I know what happens. Some poor slob buys into the napkin math and a couple months later there are posts about system rebooting and funny electrical smells, traced back to the PSU.

Tellling people they're fine with under-rated PSUs based on not having a hard drive, not adding SSDs, not having anything connected to their USB ports, not having a PCI-e network adapter and so on assumes they don't or will never have those use cases. The recommended numbers are for a person to be able to fully utilize the connectivity in their PC without fear of instability. Adding say WiFi 6 and a backup USB drive should not result in a failing rig and $100 wasted on the wrong PSU.

And that manufacturer rec is this :
You're aware that these recommendations always estimate high, right (err on the side of caution)? They have to consider that most users have average to potato level PSUs as well as some consideration (not to your level) of peripheral attachment and power use. That said, I thought any Type-A USB ports pull off the 5vSB and not the 12V rail anyway... Type-C may be 12v? Hubs will (molex or sata powered).

Also, TPU threads we always tell them QUALITY PSUs... so no, sir, we don't often (ever?) see people come back claiming the PSU we suggested underpowered their rig. You're welcome to show a thread where that happened... maybe there is one, but it certainly isn't a theme as you want to portray.

That chart, lol... I'm running a 10980XE overclocked to 4.6 GHz and a Strix RTX 3080 at stock (320W). I have mouse/asus led keyboard/BT cans/Xbox controller/flight stick/media card reader/charger for cans/5 total fans/pump/4x RAM/2 M.2/1 SSD/2 HDD... I'm running on a quality 750W PSU without issue. I pull a bit over 600W FROM THE WALL (so ~550W actual) while gaming. I ran AIDA64 and looped 3DMark w/o issue as well peaking around 625W (actual). Most systems could run with a quality 550W PSU and a 3060Ti even with overclocking. 3060Ti is 100W less and likely so is any other CPU you put against mine while overclocked. ;)
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jan 27, 2015
Messages
1,746 (0.48/day)
System Name Legion
Processor i7-12700KF
Motherboard Asus Z690-Plus TUF Gaming WiFi D5
Cooling Arctic Liquid Freezer 2 240mm AIO
Memory PNY MAKO DDR5-6000 C36-36-36-76
Video Card(s) PowerColor Hellhound 6700 XT 12GB
Storage WD SN770 512GB m.2, Samsung 980 Pro m.2 2TB
Display(s) Acer K272HUL 1440p / 34" MSI MAG341CQ 3440x1440
Case Montech Air X
Power Supply Corsair CX750M
Mouse Logitech MX Anywhere 25
Keyboard Logitech MX Keys
Software Lots
You're aware that these recommendations always estimate high, right (err on the side of caution)? They have to consider that most users have average to potato level PSUs as well as some consideration (not to your level) of peripheral attachment and power use. That said, I thought any Type-A USB ports pull off the 5vSB and not the 12V rail anyway... Type-C may be 12v? Hubs will (molex or sata powered).

Also, TPU threads we always tell them QUALITY PSUs... so no, sir, we don't often (ever?) see people come back claiming the PSU we suggested underpowered their rig. You're welcome to show a thread where that happened... maybe there is one, but it certainly isn't a theme as you want to portray.

That chart, lol... I'm running a 10980XE overclocked to 4.6 GHz and a Strix RTX 3080 at stock (320W). I have mouse/asus led keyboard/BT cans/Xbox controller/flight stick, media card reader/charger for cans/5 total fans/pump/4x RAM/2 M.2/1 SSD/2 HDD... I'm running on a quality 750W PSU without issue. I pull a bit over 600W FROM THE WALL (so ~550W actual). I ran AIDA64 and looped 3DMark w/o issue as well pulling around 650W (actual).

A quick search reveals that there are many current threads about PSUs on 3060 Ti and most people are recommending 600W+ for 3060 Ti (mfr rec also). A few people are saying you can try it with a 550W and worst case have to upgrade.

But if you want to jump into those threads and recommend a 500W psu like the person I was responding to, you go right ahead.
 

rtwjunkie

PC Gaming Enthusiast
Supporter
Joined
Jul 25, 2008
Messages
14,019 (2.34/day)
Location
Louisiana
Processor Core i9-9900k
Motherboard ASRock Z390 Phantom Gaming 6
Cooling All air: 2x140mm Fractal exhaust; 3x 140mm Cougar Intake; Enermax ETS-T50 Black CPU cooler
Memory 32GB (2x16) Mushkin Redline DDR-4 3200
Video Card(s) ASUS RTX 4070 Ti Super OC 16GB
Storage 1x 1TB MX500 (OS); 2x 6TB WD Black; 1x 2TB MX500; 1x 1TB BX500 SSD; 1x 6TB WD Blue storage (eSATA)
Display(s) Infievo 27" 165Hz @ 2560 x 1440
Case Fractal Design Define R4 Black -windowed
Audio Device(s) Soundblaster Z
Power Supply Seasonic Focus GX-1000 Gold
Mouse Coolermaster Sentinel III (large palm grip!)
Keyboard Logitech G610 Orion mechanical (Cherry Brown switches)
Software Windows 10 Pro 64-bit (Start10 & Fences 3.0 installed)
Once again TPU falls in the trap of nvidia and participate in the fraud of announcing an unavailable product at a fake MSRP.
Shame!
All W1zz can do is list the MSRP. Should he list a Wishful Thinking price as well? Real prices will depend on the market and will vary by region and sales platform. The one commonality is the MSRP from Nvidia
 
Joined
Dec 31, 2009
Messages
19,371 (3.54/day)
Benchmark Scores Faster than yours... I'd bet on it. :)
A quick search reveals that there are many current threads about PSUs on 3060 Ti and most people are recommending 600W+ for 3060 Ti (mfr rec also). A few people are saying you can try it with a 550W and worst case have to upgrade.

But if you want to jump into those threads and recommend a 500W psu like the person I was responding to, you go right ahead.
Sorry... you're moving the goal posts a bit.

You said...
Some poor slob buys into the napkin math and a couple months later there are posts about system rebooting and funny electrical smells, traced back to the PSU.

..and I replied those threads don't exist as frequently as you say they do (if they even do). That's all.

FTR, I'd probably run some systems with a 500W PSU and 3060Ti, especially at stock speeds... 5600x? yup... locked Intel or i5's... yuppers.
 
Joined
May 2, 2017
Messages
7,762 (2.78/day)
Location
Back in Norway
System Name Hotbox
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X, 110/95/110, PBO +150Mhz, CO -7,-7,-20(x6),
Motherboard ASRock Phantom Gaming B550 ITX/ax
Cooling LOBO + Laing DDC 1T Plus PWM + Corsair XR5 280mm + 2x Arctic P14
Memory 32GB G.Skill FlareX 3200c14 @3800c15
Video Card(s) PowerColor Radeon 6900XT Liquid Devil Ultimate, UC@2250MHz max @~200W
Storage 2TB Adata SX8200 Pro
Display(s) Dell U2711 main, AOC 24P2C secondary
Case SSUPD Meshlicious
Audio Device(s) Optoma Nuforce μDAC 3
Power Supply Corsair SF750 Platinum
Mouse Logitech G603
Keyboard Keychron K3/Cooler Master MasterKeys Pro M w/DSA profile caps
Software Windows 10 Pro
You're aware that these recommendations always estimate high, right (err on the side of caution)? They have to consider that most users have average to potato level PSUs as well as some consideration (not to your level) of peripheral attachment and power use. That said, I thought any Type-A USB ports pull off the 5vSB and not the 12V rail anyway... Type-C may be 12v? Hubs will (molex or sata powered).

Also, TPU threads we always tell them QUALITY PSUs... so no, sir, we don't often (ever?) see people come back claiming the PSU we suggested underpowered their rig. You're welcome to show a thread where that happened... maybe there is one, but it certainly isn't a theme as you want to portray.
Motherboard-side USB-C is still just 5V, AFAIK there's no provision for USB-PD output support from host devices - or there might be, but it's never been implemented. 5V3A is the standard there. GPUs with USB-C seem to provide 9V3A, as that's the VirtualLink spec. I find it a bit odd that they didn't just add 12V3A to that, given the availability of 12V on the GPU, but I guess they didn't deem it necessary.

Other than that: yes, PSU quality is paramount. And quality is far more important than the rated wattage. We've all seen enough "800W" units blow up under 400W loads to know that.
I've seen this type of thread before and I know what happens. Some poor slob buys into the napkin math and a couple months later there are posts about system rebooting and funny electrical smells, traced back to the PSU.

Tellling people they're fine with under-rated PSUs based on not having a hard drive, not adding SSDs, not having anything connected to their USB ports, not having a PCI-e network adapter and so on assumes they don't or will never have those use cases. The recommended numbers are for a person to be able to fully utilize the connectivity in their PC without fear of instability. Adding say WiFi 6 and a backup USB drive should not result in a failing rig and $100 wasted on the wrong PSU.

And that manufacturer rec is this :

View attachment 177902
Again, you dont' actually seem to read what I'm writing. I'm putting this in a spoiler tag to spare the rest of the readers here the OT discussion.
a) that table is 100% CYA, representing numbers designed around making it extremely unlikely that someone should blame Nvidia for telling them to buy a too-weak PSU for their GPU. It also factors in people buying utter crap PSUs because they don't know any better. I take for granted that people do know better, as I tell them as much. You should never skimp on your PSU. Period.
b) Who uses PCIe network adapters? In my experience people either buy motherboards with it built in, or use USB adapters. Regardless if it's m.2, PCIe or USB, it doesn't use more than a few watts (it's all the same base hardware anyway).
c) My formula explicitly accounts for storage devices (and fans, pumps, motherboards, RAM, etc.). If you see it as likely you'll add more in the future, feel free to add another 5-20W to your numbers, though the 20% margin makes that safe for most people. After all, most SSDs consume <5W, and most HDDs consume <20W for a couple of seconds during spin-up and ~5-10W in use. That's not a massive addition by any means.

Adding a PCIe WiFi 6 card and an external backup HDD to your PC does essentially nothing to its overall power draw. External bus powered HDDs pull less than 5W (they're mostly 5400rpm 2.5" drives - 3.5" drives need external 12V power after all, and the bus powered ones need to work on 5W-limited USB ports), PCIe network cards are a few watts - let's be generous and say 10. If 15W is the difference between your PSU being stable and not, you're not even close to following my recommendations. Unless, I guess, your calculations told you that you needed a 90W PSU, as that's how low you'd need to go for the 20% margin to be exceeded by that additional load.

An example: A user has an i5-9400, a stock power GTX 1060, 2x8GB of DDR4-3200 and a 1TB SATA SSD. Two case fans + a 240mm AIO. With my formula that's 100W (134W load minus 44W idle, + 10W for CPU idle power) + 125W + ~25W for the motherboard and RAM + 5W for the SSD, 20W for four fans and another 5W for the AIO pump = 280W. Add the 20% margin and you're at 310W. That's not a lot at all, and there are no quality PSU options that low, so their closest option is a 450W unit, with a 550W likely costing the same and having better availability (and likely a higher efficiency rating). That's of course complete and utter overkill, and leaves them tons of headroom - the PC will literally never exceed 50% PSU load! - but that's reality. They can add whatever upgrades they want. But if they want to go SFF with a custom PSU or external power brick, they can also feel safe that that will be entirely sufficient, despite the scaremongering from Nvidia that the 1060 needs a 400W PSU. If, on the other hand, there were high quality 300W PSUs out there, I would say that those are sufficient, while cautioning that it's too tight to allow for any upgrades in the future that add noticeable power draw. 350W would be entirely fine. Again, as long as the PSU is of decent quality - but that's a base necessity no matter what.

On the other end, if someone has a higher end build - let's say an i7-9700K, AIB RTX 2060S, 2x8GB of DDR4-3600 and a 1TB SAT SSD, with the same cooling. That's (180W-41W+10W=) 150W + 205W + 30W mobo/RAM + the same 25W for cooling and 5W for an SSD. That adds up to 415W, or 498W with a 20% margin. If they plan to OC, just replace 180W for the CPU with 237W and go from there. They could in other words still get by just fine with a 500-550W PSU at stock, and the 20% margin would let them upgrade to, say, a stock-clocked RTX 2080 (226W according to TPU) without even getting close to the rating of the PSU (still just 436W), or an aftermarket one (likely more like 460W) with still little risk. Why? Because that PC will never consume 415W under load. That number is made by adding up the peak power numbers of every single component, a scenario that will never happen in the real world unless you work very hard to make it happen. Games don't stress your CPU to 100% power draw, nor your drives, peripherals, or anything else. In the vast majority of scenarios, games stress your GPU 100%, 1-2 CPU cores 80-100%, and the rest of the system is relatively relaxed, with bursty drive loads and continuous, irrelevantly small loads from RAM and peripherals.

I'm not saying this formula is idiot-proof - nothing is! - but it does the job as long as you know what you're planning and those plans don't include massive upgrades. Which most people don't plan for, or have the funds for.
 
Joined
Jul 8, 2019
Messages
169 (0.08/day)
This seems like a great replacement for my 1080 8GB, similar wattage and a good chunk more performance.

It's hurting me inside how power hungry modern GPU's are tho :(
200W is power hungry? Whaaat. You must be dinosaur then.
 
Joined
May 2, 2017
Messages
7,762 (2.78/day)
Location
Back in Norway
System Name Hotbox
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X, 110/95/110, PBO +150Mhz, CO -7,-7,-20(x6),
Motherboard ASRock Phantom Gaming B550 ITX/ax
Cooling LOBO + Laing DDC 1T Plus PWM + Corsair XR5 280mm + 2x Arctic P14
Memory 32GB G.Skill FlareX 3200c14 @3800c15
Video Card(s) PowerColor Radeon 6900XT Liquid Devil Ultimate, UC@2250MHz max @~200W
Storage 2TB Adata SX8200 Pro
Display(s) Dell U2711 main, AOC 24P2C secondary
Case SSUPD Meshlicious
Audio Device(s) Optoma Nuforce μDAC 3
Power Supply Corsair SF750 Platinum
Mouse Logitech G603
Keyboard Keychron K3/Cooler Master MasterKeys Pro M w/DSA profile caps
Software Windows 10 Pro
A quick search reveals that there are many current threads about PSUs on 3060 Ti and most people are recommending 600W+ for 3060 Ti (mfr rec also). A few people are saying you can try it with a 550W and worst case have to upgrade.

But if you want to jump into those threads and recommend a 500W psu like the person I was responding to, you go right ahead.
I would definitely not recommend against that. A 500W PSU would handle that setup perfectly fine as long as the PSU is of decent quality. It would never get even close to 100% load unless it was paired with an overclocked 10700K/10900K or a HEDT CPU.
 
Joined
Jul 8, 2019
Messages
169 (0.08/day)
Right now people are somehow convinced they MUST game at 4K

Rightfully so. Just as people expected to game at 1080p 60fps ultra when consoles did 1080p 30fps, now consoles do 4k30fps, so we expect 4k60fps going mainstream.
 
Joined
Jan 27, 2015
Messages
1,746 (0.48/day)
System Name Legion
Processor i7-12700KF
Motherboard Asus Z690-Plus TUF Gaming WiFi D5
Cooling Arctic Liquid Freezer 2 240mm AIO
Memory PNY MAKO DDR5-6000 C36-36-36-76
Video Card(s) PowerColor Hellhound 6700 XT 12GB
Storage WD SN770 512GB m.2, Samsung 980 Pro m.2 2TB
Display(s) Acer K272HUL 1440p / 34" MSI MAG341CQ 3440x1440
Case Montech Air X
Power Supply Corsair CX750M
Mouse Logitech MX Anywhere 25
Keyboard Logitech MX Keys
Software Lots
Motherboard-side USB-C is still just 5V, AFAIK there's no provision for USB-PD output support from host devices - or there might be, but it's never been implemented. 5V3A is the standard there. GPUs with USB-C seem to provide 9V3A, as that's the VirtualLink spec. I find it a bit odd that they didn't just add 12V3A to that, given the availability of 12V on the GPU, but I guess they didn't deem it necessary.

Other than that: yes, PSU quality is paramount. And quality is far more important than the rated wattage. We've all seen enough "800W" units blow up under 400W loads to know that.

Again, you dont' actually seem to read what I'm writing. I'm putting this in a spoiler tag to spare the rest of the readers here the OT discussion.
a) that table is 100% CYA, representing numbers designed around making it extremely unlikely that someone should blame Nvidia for telling them to buy a too-weak PSU for their GPU. It also factors in people buying utter crap PSUs because they don't know any better. I take for granted that people do know better, as I tell them as much. You should never skimp on your PSU. Period.
b) Who uses PCIe network adapters? In my experience people either buy motherboards with it built in, or use USB adapters. Regardless if it's m.2, PCIe or USB, it doesn't use more than a few watts (it's all the same base hardware anyway).
c) My formula explicitly accounts for storage devices (and fans, pumps, motherboards, RAM, etc.). If you see it as likely you'll add more in the future, feel free to add another 5-20W to your numbers, though the 20% margin makes that safe for most people. After all, most SSDs consume <5W, and most HDDs consume <20W for a couple of seconds during spin-up and ~5-10W in use. That's not a massive addition by any means.

Adding a PCIe WiFi 6 card and an external backup HDD to your PC does essentially nothing to its overall power draw. External bus powered HDDs pull less than 5W (they're mostly 5400rpm 2.5" drives - 3.5" drives need external 12V power after all, and the bus powered ones need to work on 5W-limited USB ports), PCIe network cards are a few watts - let's be generous and say 10. If 15W is the difference between your PSU being stable and not, you're not even close to following my recommendations. Unless, I guess, your calculations told you that you needed a 90W PSU, as that's how low you'd need to go for the 20% margin to be exceeded by that additional load.

An example: A user has an i5-9400, a stock power GTX 1060, 2x8GB of DDR4-3200 and a 1TB SATA SSD. Two case fans + a 240mm AIO. With my formula that's 100W (134W load minus 44W idle, + 10W for CPU idle power) + 125W + ~25W for the motherboard and RAM + 5W for the SSD, 20W for four fans and another 5W for the AIO pump = 280W. Add the 20% margin and you're at 310W. That's not a lot at all, and there are no quality PSU options that low, so their closest option is a 450W unit, with a 550W likely costing the same and having better availability (and likely a higher efficiency rating). That's of course complete and utter overkill, and leaves them tons of headroom - the PC will literally never exceed 50% PSU load! - but that's reality. They can add whatever upgrades they want. But if they want to go SFF with a custom PSU or external power brick, they can also feel safe that that will be entirely sufficient, despite the scaremongering from Nvidia that the 1060 needs a 400W PSU. If, on the other hand, there were high quality 300W PSUs out there, I would say that those are sufficient, while cautioning that it's too tight to allow for any upgrades in the future that add noticeable power draw. 350W would be entirely fine. Again, as long as the PSU is of decent quality - but that's a base necessity no matter what.

On the other end, if someone has a higher end build - let's say an i7-9700K, AIB RTX 2060S, 2x8GB of DDR4-3600 and a 1TB SAT SSD, with the same cooling. That's (180W-41W+10W=) 150W + 205W + 30W mobo/RAM + the same 25W for cooling and 5W for an SSD. That adds up to 415W, or 498W with a 20% margin. If they plan to OC, just replace 180W for the CPU with 237W and go from there. They could in other words still get by just fine with a 500-550W PSU at stock, and the 20% margin would let them upgrade to, say, a stock-clocked RTX 2080 (226W according to TPU) without even getting close to the rating of the PSU (still just 436W), or an aftermarket one (likely more like 460W) with still little risk. Why? Because that PC will never consume 415W under load. That number is made by adding up the peak power numbers of every single component, a scenario that will never happen in the real world unless you work very hard to make it happen. Games don't stress your CPU to 100% power draw, nor your drives, peripherals, or anything else. In the vast majority of scenarios, games stress your GPU 100%, 1-2 CPU cores 80-100%, and the rest of the system is relatively relaxed, with bursty drive loads and continuous, irrelevantly small loads from RAM and peripherals.

I'm not saying this formula is idiot-proof - nothing is! - but it does the job as long as you know what you're planning and those plans don't include massive upgrades. Which most people don't plan for, or have the funds for.


You're correct, I do not and will not read that.
 
Joined
Feb 20, 2019
Messages
8,339 (3.91/day)
System Name Bragging Rights
Processor Atom Z3735F 1.33GHz
Motherboard It has no markings but it's green
Cooling No, it's a 2.2W processor
Memory 2GB DDR3L-1333
Video Card(s) Gen7 Intel HD (4EU @ 311MHz)
Storage 32GB eMMC and 128GB Sandisk Extreme U3
Display(s) 10" IPS 1280x800 60Hz
Case Veddha T2
Audio Device(s) Apparently, yes
Power Supply Samsung 18W 5V fast-charger
Mouse MX Anywhere 2
Keyboard Logitech MX Keys (not Cherry MX at all)
VR HMD Samsung Oddyssey, not that I'd plug it into this though....
Software W10 21H1, barely
Benchmark Scores I once clocked a Celeron-300A to 564MHz on an Abit BE6 and it scored over 9000.
Anyone from Europe can verify if Nvidia has the FE listed on their local site? Here it is not even listed.
Listed and out of stock as expected.
1606938311125.png
 
Joined
Jan 27, 2015
Messages
1,746 (0.48/day)
System Name Legion
Processor i7-12700KF
Motherboard Asus Z690-Plus TUF Gaming WiFi D5
Cooling Arctic Liquid Freezer 2 240mm AIO
Memory PNY MAKO DDR5-6000 C36-36-36-76
Video Card(s) PowerColor Hellhound 6700 XT 12GB
Storage WD SN770 512GB m.2, Samsung 980 Pro m.2 2TB
Display(s) Acer K272HUL 1440p / 34" MSI MAG341CQ 3440x1440
Case Montech Air X
Power Supply Corsair CX750M
Mouse Logitech MX Anywhere 25
Keyboard Logitech MX Keys
Software Lots
Sorry... you're moving the goal posts a bit.

You said...

..and I replied those threads don't exist as frequently as you say they do (if they even do). That's all.

FTR, I'd probably run some systems with a 500W PSU and 3060Ti, especially at stock speeds... 5600x? yup... locked Intel or i5's... yuppers.

The reason they don't exist in quantity is because people recommending significantly underpowered PSUs isn't happening. I'm not going to dig through years of posts to find when they did, but the recent ones people aren't doing that.

To note, I'm now repeating myself because you didn't get that from previous post.

Also, I did not say they happened frequently (that's you again constructing straw man arguments). I said I've seen them before. Frankly, most people have better sense than to say its ok to get a 450W-500W PSU for these types of setups, but it did here and yes that's you defending it and saying pretty much the same thing.

As I stated (now the third time), people making those recs in those threads are not recommending 100W under mfr spec PSUs.

If you want to do that, go ahead. Valatar is using napkin math to justify saying you can use 450W-500W PSUs with 200W-240W GPUs. If that is your thinking too, go for it man, make those recommendations. Lets see how that turns out.

That's a shame. You might learn something. :)

Unlikely. I'm a software engineer in controls industrial engineering. I work around electronics and controls (electrical) engineers all the time. I've been doing this for 25 years.

People should get what the engineers recommend, not what you threw up into this thread.
 
Joined
Jul 8, 2019
Messages
169 (0.08/day)
How on earth a 500W won't suffice, on a 200W GPU, when a whole system will take at max 400W under worst case scenario, like prime95+furmark? Even a crappy group regulated PSU will have 400W on 12V, with 500W overall rating. We of course aren't talking about these aliexpress gpu for 10usd, that have 250W on 12V when they have 500W overall. We are talking about an entry level psu 80+ certified, or 80+ bronze certified. This will do fine with 500W of power. A good quality 500W psu will whitstand that gpu with ease, going 500W on 12V and even more. Nvidia can't take into account these worthless 10usd psus, becasue in that case, they should recommend a 700-900W psu for such gpu -since such crappy psus can outpust 300-400W at most on 12V.
It's not upto nvidia to cover for user imbecilic choice which is an unprobable edge case, affecting less than 1% of users, who are braindead and bought a 10usd psu for 400 usd gpu...
 
Joined
Jan 27, 2015
Messages
1,746 (0.48/day)
System Name Legion
Processor i7-12700KF
Motherboard Asus Z690-Plus TUF Gaming WiFi D5
Cooling Arctic Liquid Freezer 2 240mm AIO
Memory PNY MAKO DDR5-6000 C36-36-36-76
Video Card(s) PowerColor Hellhound 6700 XT 12GB
Storage WD SN770 512GB m.2, Samsung 980 Pro m.2 2TB
Display(s) Acer K272HUL 1440p / 34" MSI MAG341CQ 3440x1440
Case Montech Air X
Power Supply Corsair CX750M
Mouse Logitech MX Anywhere 25
Keyboard Logitech MX Keys
Software Lots
How on earth a 500W won't suffice, on a 200W GPU, when a whole system will take at max 400W under worst case scenario, like prime95+furmark? Even a crappy group regulated PSU will have 400W on 12V, with 500W overall rating. We of course aren't talking about these aliexpress gpu for 10usd, that have 250W on 12V when they have 500W overall. We are talking about an entry level psu 80+ certified, or 80+ bronze certified. This will do fine with 500W of power. A good quality 500W psu will whitstand that gpu with ease, going 500W on 12V and even more. Nvidia can't take into account these worthless 10usd psus, becasue in that case, they should recommend a 700-900W psu for such gpu -since such crappy psus can outpust 300-400W at most on 12V.
It's not upto nvidia to cover for user imbecilic choice which is an unprobable edge case, affecting less than 1% of users, who are braindead and bought a 10usd psu for 400 usd gpu...

This would be my rig with a 10600K and a 3070, assuming no overclocking and leaving power limits intact on the 10600K (fat chance). Also RAM OC will draw more power.

Doesn't matter though, at stock 400 and 450W PSUs would fail.

To use a 500W PSU at all, you'd have to be perfectly balanced on all rails. Not likely.

Power unlock or use OC ram, or possibly even plug a high charge rate phone into an usb-c, and you're DOA with 500W.

Edit: 10600K can surge to 180W for 7 seconds even stock, 125W is average max over 28s by default and the power limit for 7s tau is 225W.


1606944590489.png
 
Joined
Jul 8, 2019
Messages
169 (0.08/day)
If someone is scared he/she can buy 550W and be safe. Transient power spikes are not to be accounted for calculating PSU wattage -some gpu can have a transient power spike doubling the power for few miliseconds, but PSUs can handle that. Only the worst PSUs will trip over such spikes, causing reset or if it doesnt have any meaningful protection, a burnt cap or other piece of electronics.
Recommended PSU wattage is complete bollocks on that calculator -it's for really bad PSUs. The minimal PSU wattage is more realistic.
And who the hell use blu ray drive in PCs nowadays? That's 30W less. Same for 3 USB devices beside keyboard and mice? What for? You are heating your tea with some usb heater? One usb drive i can understand. I mean i can stretch that scenario even more, adding more HDD, but we should talk about typical pcs. Blu ray drive is extremely uncommon. 70W for motherboard? That must be really high end motherboard, because i've never seen such power draw from my B450 motherboard -it takes 50W max. It isn't a christmas tree mind you.
 
Joined
Dec 31, 2009
Messages
19,371 (3.54/day)
Benchmark Scores Faster than yours... I'd bet on it. :)
lol, I'd gladly run that listed machine on a quality 500W single rail PSU... I'd even stress test it... and maybe overclock some.

550W leaves proper headroom for quiet operation and expansion... but hell yeah.. especially at stock speeds. I don't 'play' P95 and stress tests... so long as it passes them when I overclock. It's on.

Anyway, 3060ti thread.... thats a 3070 listed, lol
 
Top