Subtle micro-stutter, input lag, floaty mouse feel - computer feels off

[fatehasfans]

Re installed windows, deleted all mouse files? So you didn't do a CLEAN install? Is Windows fully up to date? Why are you using a 1200Watt PSU? Water cooled? LOLZ, I assume its the CPU(assuming you do have one) cause you don't say what you are using here.

Hi there,

I've reinstalled Windows (clean) and not just Windows 10, I've tried 7 also. I've tried a lower Watt PSU, the issue is still there and the reason I use a 1200 is because my friend gave it to me. Yes, the CPU is water cooled.

The problem is still very much there. When I look at other videos of people playing games on inferior setups they have buttery smooth gameplay whereas I have small very subtle-micro stuttering and slight input lag. I get on with it but it has cost me, I now accept I can't compete at the level I want because of it. Better than nothing I suppose but when you spent lots of money on upgrading and moving forward with newer technology you expect improvements not steps backward

If anyone has any suggestions please let me know, thanks.

 

[nuggdoctor]

Are you running you pc through power strips or are you plugged dirctly into the wall? it also sounds like you may have a windows setting on that would make it react likes its in safe mode. If your power delivery is off then the whole pc will suffer.

 

[SomeOne99h]

Go to this thread and read:

[Feature Request] Set Message-Signaled Interrupts

Requesting ability to enable message-signaled interrupts on GPU and related devices (sound, USB-C) after driver installation is complete. On each driver install, Nvidia resets a registry key which disables MSI and forces devices to fall back to legacy INTx mode, presumably for compatibility...

www.techpowerup.com

Download

NVCleanstall v1.17.0 Download

NVCleanstall lets you customize the NVIDIA GeForce Driver package by removing components that you don't need (or want). This not only keeps things ti

www.techpowerup.com

Then try to enable Message-Signaled Interrupts. Or you could just do it the easy and fast way. Get "MSI_util_v3.exe" posted by Solaris17 in that thread (NOT MSI Mode Utility.exe that was posted by TikiThorsen) and then enable the setting in the fly, without the need to reinstall graphics drivers and all of that. But you need to restart for the settings to take effect. (You will see a tab about priority, don't change that.)

The post:

[Feature Request] Set Message-Signaled Interrupts

Requesting ability to enable message-signaled interrupts on GPU and related devices (sound, USB-C) after driver installation is complete. On each driver install, Nvidia resets a registry key which disables MSI and forces devices to fall back to legacy INTx mode, presumably for compatibility...

www.techpowerup.com

 

[Byter]

I have a similar issue. My mouse feels delayed and "on ice". You can't spot it with bare eyes but it's there when you try it yourself. I tried most of the things listed here and still no success. If anybody has any idea please lmk!

 

[jrm523]

I have a 1080TI and have been struggling with this as well. I have tried many drivers over the last year and have done a fresh reinstall of windows. With my particular case, it seems to be significant when YCbCr422 10-bit color is selected. I notice when 422 is selected that my GPU spikes to 25% just to move the mouse. RGB 8 bit and YCbCr422 8 bit work fine. :/

*edit* I just tried enabling hardware scheduling and it fixed my issue once and for all! Wow!

 

[Papahyooie]

I may be wrong, but I swear this person is creating multiple accounts, and posting these "puzzles" of mysterious latency and framerate issues. There have been like 30 of them over the past several months to a year. They always follow the same speech patterns, none of the issues are ever identifiable, and when solutions are suggested, they either don't do what you ask and ignore it, you never get the info back that was requested to help, or some random wrench gets thrown in that makes the suggestion not applicable, and the topic spider-webs. If it doesn't get much attention, new members show up and say they have the same problem.

Again, I'm not trying to flame, I could be totally wrong, and I'm sorry for the off-topic. But a mod might want to look into it. I don't suppose it really hurts anything if that's what he's doing, but this isn't a place for ARGs and puzzle games.

 

[Hachi_Roku256563]

A DOUBLE NECRO DARN that is impressive

 

[fatehasfans]

Are you running you pc through power strips or are you plugged dirctly into the wall? it also sounds like you may have a windows setting on that would make it react likes its in safe mode. If your power delivery is off then the whole pc will suffer.

It's plugged directly into the wall.

I may be wrong, but I swear this person is creating multiple accounts, and posting these "puzzles" of mysterious latency and framerate issues. There have been like 30 of them over the past several months to a year. They always follow the same speech patterns, none of the issues are ever identifiable, and when solutions are suggested, they either don't do what you ask and ignore it, you never get the info back that was requested to help, or some random wrench gets thrown in that makes the suggestion not applicable, and the topic spider-webs. If it doesn't get much attention, new members show up and say they have the same problem.

Again, I'm not trying to flame, I could be totally wrong, and I'm sorry for the off-topic. But a mod might want to look into it. I don't suppose it really hurts anything if that's what he's doing, but this isn't a place for ARGs and puzzle games.

I think you need a tinfoil hat.

 

[Spoon30]

I'm following this thread too, there's been no fix so far, so I'd imagine that the necros are warranted?

 

[oobymach]

Have you tried enabling message signaled interrupts like someone said above?

Download msi util v3 from here.

Run as admin, check the box for msi for your gpu and hit apply in the top right. Restart. If you're using an MSI motherboard go into bios during the restart and save and exit without making changes, this will cut latency a bit for your gpu. To confirm it is in msi mode run the util again after restart and your gpu should have a negative number under irq.

To reduce it further go into nvidia control panel, 3d settings, global settings, find low latency mode and select on or ultra and apply.

Mouse input lag is probably either your mouse or the software for it, there are some really good mice and some really bad mice out there, I like logitech because they are great performers for me.

Also how is your power profile setup? Go to Control Panel\Power Options\Select a high performance one and Change Plan Settings\Change advanced power settings

Go to usb setting, disable selective suspend

Go to pci express, turn off link state power management

Does that improve things?

 

[Mussels]

Did you... check the settings on your monitor itself?

 

[phanbuey]

i bet it's something plugged into the system or some driver just being a pain.

 

[Vayra86]

I may be wrong, but I swear this person is creating multiple accounts, and posting these "puzzles" of mysterious latency and framerate issues. There have been like 30 of them over the past several months to a year. They always follow the same speech patterns, none of the issues are ever identifiable, and when solutions are suggested, they either don't do what you ask and ignore it, you never get the info back that was requested to help, or some random wrench gets thrown in that makes the suggestion not applicable, and the topic spider-webs. If it doesn't get much attention, new members show up and say they have the same problem.

Again, I'm not trying to flame, I could be totally wrong, and I'm sorry for the off-topic. But a mod might want to look into it. I don't suppose it really hurts anything if that's what he's doing, but this isn't a place for ARGs and puzzle games.

Well... I think its too easy to write this off as some random troll. I recognize what you're saying, at the same time, most of the time, there IS something off about the whole build/setup.

And 9 out of 10 times this is a PEBKAC problem. The thing is, there are so many software and hardware systems all getting regular updates, and many of them even doing it in idle cpu time, its pretty difficult to identify what's what sometimes. If you can't separate A from B in troubleshooting, its easy to get some sort of latency issue.

I have a 1080TI and have been struggling with this as well. I have tried many drivers over the last year and have done a fresh reinstall of windows. With my particular case, it seems to be significant when YCbCr422 10-bit color is selected. I notice when 422 is selected that my GPU spikes to 25% just to move the mouse. RGB 8 bit and YCbCr422 8 bit work fine. :/

*edit* I just tried enabling hardware scheduling and it fixed my issue once and for all! Wow!

Example 1.

 

[AusWolf]

Old topic, but I see it's still active, so...

Some random things I can think of:

• You didn't mention what CPU you have. Is it strong enough to run your games, background apps and Windows services at the same time?
• You didn't mention what input devices you have. Since the problem is input related, it's kind of important. If they're wireless, try connecting the dongle to the motherboard's USB 2.0 (black) ports, or the ones physically the nearest to your desk with the least obstruction between the PC and your input devices. If they're bluetooth, try reconnecting them. It might be worth trying a traditional wired keyboard and mouse as well.
• Also, how old are your mouse and keyboard? The sensor and buttons might be dirty, and/or weakened by their age, or just generally old designs not suited for modern gaming.
• Are your drivers (not only graphics) up to date?
• Are you using any background apps? If so, what are them?
• Try checking your Windows power settings for USB (selective suspend off), PCI Express (power savings off) and wireless (maximum power) suggested above.

 

[SweetPhilosophy]

Hey OP, I have the same issue-ish and didn't find a fix yet What I'd suggest you doing would be to disable all RGB and see if the problem persists. If you replaced all hardware and the problem persists try to think about the common ground between all of the hardware. Are you using the same storage? Are you using the same peripherals (even headset, headphone or speakers, as well as any usb hubs, extensions, etc)? Is the problem still occurring when using other OS (such as linux) or when booting the Windows in minimal safe mode?
Unlike OP, I have measured my stutters and have a video with one happening so it's definitely something wrong with my pc or drivers, and not me, so I believe OP saying he has a legit issue with the build.
Edit:
FPS drop caused by the stutter can be seen in the last 2 graphs here:

http://imgur.com/a/ySiFaH0

A slow-mo of a stutter occurring (between 0:33 and 0:35):

- for me it is really hard to capture it on a video because the frames of the recording ar not synchronized with the game's output frames (60 vs 165, also tried with changing the monitor refresh rate but it's the same), so I was lucky to get this yesterday

 

[Vayra86]

Hey OP, I have the same issue-ish and didn't find a fix yet What I'd suggest you doing would be to disable all RGB and see if the problem persists. If you replaced all hardware and the problem persists try to think about the common ground between all of the hardware. Are you using the same storage? Are you using the same peripherals (even headset, headphone or speakers, as well as any usb hubs, extensions, etc)? Is the problem still occurring when using other OS (such as linux) or when booting the Windows in minimal safe mode?
Unlike OP, I have measured my stutters and have a video with one happening so it's definitely something wrong with my pc or drivers, and not me, so I believe OP saying he has a legit issue with the build.
Edit:
FPS drop caused by the stutter can be seen in the last 2 graphs here:

http://imgur.com/a/ySiFaH0

A slow-mo of a stutter occurring (between 0:33 and 0:35):

- for me it is really hard to capture it on a video because the frames of the recording ar not synchronized with the game's output frames (60 vs 165, also tried with changing the monitor refresh rate but it's the same), so I was lucky to get this yesterday

To me that looks like a game state change or something network related more so than a stutter that originates from your PC.

I'd chalk this up to the game. The moment your stutter occurs, I see some models on screen dissappear, exactly at 0:33.

Keep in mind game code is not a static thing. Depending on what happens in the game, you can have cpu load spikes as game logic is worked through. And if the game is online, you have an additional factor on top in network latency and communication. If the game has to wait for all clients to deliver some data, you can easily get a stutter.

Load spikes like that one - what you have here is a simple, good old game issue: single thread performance limit.

 

[phanbuey]

League doesn't stutter like that on my POS walmart laptop with a R5 3500U in battery saver mode, it's one of the least demanding games out there. There's definitely something going on specific to that build or that NIC/ network interface.

 

[SweetPhilosophy]

To me that looks like a game state change or something network related more so than a stutter that originates from your PC.

I'd chalk this up to the game. The moment your stutter occurs, I see some models on screen dissappear, exactly at 0:33.

Keep in mind game code is not a static thing. Depending on what happens in the game, you can have cpu load spikes as game logic is worked through. And if the game is online, you have an additional factor on top in network latency and communication. If the game has to wait for all clients to deliver some data, you can easily get a stutter.

Load spikes like that one - what you have here is a simple, good old game issue: single thread performance limit.

View attachment 195488

Unfortunately this happens on all games I play, doesn't matter if they are single player or multi player. Even more so that this was not happening on my old rig which was significantly slower than what I have now (you can check on my profile the specs)
Edit:

League doesn't stutter like that on my POS walmart laptop with a R5 3500U in battery saver mode, it's one of the least demanding games out there. There's definitely something going on specific to that build or that NIC/ network interface.

Thank you

 

[Vayra86]

Unfortunately this happens on all games I play, doesn't matter if they are single player or multi player. Even more so that this was not happening on my old rig which was significantly slower than what I have now (you can check on my profile the specs)
Edit:

Thank you

Be that as it may, I would focus your solution on that CPU spike, because like it or not, that is why you get that stutter.

Maybe its not the game but stuff happening concurrently, you mentioned RGB lighting, if it has a relation to game code, then certainly that can be a performance killer. USB is slow, especially if 2.0. The last place I'd look in any case, is hardware itself or 'a problem with my computer'. Its the combination of elements that causes stutter, not the elements by themselves.

The easiest way to figure this out:
Return to stock settings on everything.
Build your setup back up one piece at a time. If you used framerate tweaks or other non-stock settings in game or gpu settings, consider those all as separate pieces to analyze until you're back to where you want to be.

In this specific case you may want to swap all RGB peripherals with simpler stuff, just a standard mouse and kb. And uninstall the devices too, including the 3rd party software. Those are generally a cause for issues - shitty code, cheap programmers and tons of legacy.

 

[phanbuey]

Simplifying is the way to go -- unplug everything - even case USB headers for the front, everything that you can from the MB, uninstall everything you don't need, kill all the startup stuff and see if the stutter is still there.

There was someone here recently that had stutter that was coming from faulty USB header on the case...

 

[AusWolf]

To me that looks like a game state change or something network related more so than a stutter that originates from your PC.

I'd chalk this up to the game. The moment your stutter occurs, I see some models on screen dissappear, exactly at 0:33.

Keep in mind game code is not a static thing. Depending on what happens in the game, you can have cpu load spikes as game logic is worked through. And if the game is online, you have an additional factor on top in network latency and communication. If the game has to wait for all clients to deliver some data, you can easily get a stutter.

Load spikes like that one - what you have here is a simple, good old game issue: single thread performance limit.

View attachment 195488

I agree.

To OP and @SweetPhilosophy: There is always some kind of stutter in all games on all platforms. If your PC is strong enough, you won't notice them, but they are there. Look at frametime pages in hardware reviews. You won't see any single game on any single hardware that produces a static framerate. In the example above, when a game asks for assets to be added/removed, or levels to be loaded, your CPU load will spike. Even if your CPU is strong enough to handle the load, executing code takes time, resulting in a frametime spike. You can reduce it with a stronger CPU, but you can't eliminate it entirely. It's just the nature of things.

My general rule of thumb: More GPU-bound scenarios usually result in lower, but more stable framerates, while more CPU-bound ones look like stutters, as it mostly affects adding assets and loading times. More powerful graphics cards and older / less demanding games create more CPU-bound scenarios. Again, I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[Mussels]

Hey OP, I have the same issue-ish and didn't find a fix yet What I'd suggest you doing would be to disable all RGB and see if the problem persists. If you replaced all hardware and the problem persists try to think about the common ground between all of the hardware. Are you using the same storage? Are you using the same peripherals (even headset, headphone or speakers, as well as any usb hubs, extensions, etc)? Is the problem still occurring when using other OS (such as linux) or when booting the Windows in minimal safe mode?
Unlike OP, I have measured my stutters and have a video with one happening so it's definitely something wrong with my pc or drivers, and not me, so I believe OP saying he has a legit issue with the build.
Edit:
FPS drop caused by the stutter can be seen in the last 2 graphs here:

http://imgur.com/a/ySiFaH0

A slow-mo of a stutter occurring (between 0:33 and 0:35):

- for me it is really hard to capture it on a video because the frames of the recording ar not synchronized with the game's output frames (60 vs 165, also tried with changing the monitor refresh rate but it's the same), so I was lucky to get this yesterday

your PC specs are so close to mine they should be almost the same in performance (my 3090 is undervolted to 3080 performance)

in that video you can easily see the lag occurs at the same time those models disappear, so thats a good focal point: loading and unloading assets
disconnect your mech drives, keep preferably just the OS drive with league on it and see what happens. that stutter reminds me of my good old WD green drives and their hardware power down timers lagging out my PC every time they woke up

 

[SomeOne99h]

SweetPhilosophy,
Here is something easy and quick to try before doing the other ways:
-Go to the motherboard's bios and disable all of your HDDs. and then see from there? One of your storage devices seems to put your system that way.

If the problem still exists, I will do this myself:
-I will UNPLUG all of the storage devices, except that 1x 1TB M2 SSD, and then install both OS and games on it. And then see from there?

-Take a look at the motherboard manual and look at the storage section. Maybe you did something wrong.
-Get a tool from the vendor of your storage devices to scan for storage health.

 

[Mussels]

and i'm gunna state something else semi obvious:
Reset your BIOS, leave it defaults other than XMP (fan/boot settings allowed)
reinstall NV driver with clean install option
uninstall the bloaty crap you want but dont need - RGB software, overclocking software, anything that runs in the tray icons and boots with windows. one of em could be fucky, and if nothing else its a good chance to clean up - you'll lose em all if you have to reinstall windows anyway

 

[Vayra86]

I wonder if the penny dropped

This is what a gamer PC tray should look like. You can get even less, but PowerToys is one of those productivity things I really like. And it doesn't cost anything if you don't use desktop zoning.

Rivatuner, Afterburner, Windows sound options, Defender, NV settings, Realtek and Network.
Everything else is clutter.

And guess what... even this is not a 100% stutter free gaming experience. 98%? Close enough.

Another sanity check is what your idle PC looks like in task manager. This is how it should be: