Intel Encourages Adoption of ATX12VO Standard on Alder Lake-S Motherboards

[Uskompuf]

The ATX12VO power standard is a new specification for desktop power supplies which boasts greatly increased efficiency over regular desktop power supplies. The new standard requires a compatible motherboard with a 10-pin power connector along with a compatible power supply which only features 12 V rails. The standard requires that any voltage conversion above or below 12 V must be performed directly on the motherboard which increases the complexity and cost for motherboard manufacturers. Intel is interested in promoting the standard with their upcoming 600-series motherboards for Alder Lake-S however most enthusiast boards are unlikely to feature the standard. The standard may find higher adoption with entry-level motherboards for system integrators and pre-built suppliers who need to meet strict government power efficiency regulations.



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[Xzibit]

Intel's own numbers show that ATX12VO specification is more power-efficient at idle or low power loads. With a 20W load, an ATX12VO 500W 80 PLUS Gold power supply offers a power efficiency of up to 83%, compared to an ATX 500W 80 PLUS Gold unit's 64%.

 

[Final_Fighter]

This is really bad timing for this. chip shortages, and supply line issues. sounds like its only going to drive cost up more. could intel pick a worse time for this?

 

[ZoneDymo]

This is really bad timing for this. chip shortages, and supply line issues. sounds like its only going to drive cost up more. could intel pick a worse time for this?

Not entirely sure how that is related.
New motherboards have to be made anyway regardless of what the end up using.

New psu's for oem builds, again not sure how it would be a problem

 

[nguyen]

People are way more likely to reuse their PSU throughout multiple builds, so higher cost of PSU is justified.
For motherboard, especially on Intel platform where people have to change board every 2 gen, increasing the cost of motherboard is just moronic.
And the difference in power saving at idle is only a few watts even if efficiency improve by 20%
Classic Intel - stupid inside

 

[Final_Fighter]

Not entirely sure how that is related.
New motherboards have to be made anyway regardless of what the end up using.

New psu's for oem builds, again not sure how it would be a problem

lots of components that go into building a motherboard dont just magically appear at the manufactures door step. same goes for the psu manufacturer. if the standard changes than the supply line has to adjust to it. it drives cost up more than if things where moving more freely. we are literally in the middle of a labor and chip shortage thats not looking to get better anytime soon.

 

[lexluthermiester]

This is really bad timing for this. chip shortages, and supply line issues. sounds like its only going to drive cost up more. could intel pick a worse time for this?

Actually, not really. This is an excellent time for this push. 12V PSU's are much simpler and easier to make than a standard PSU's and they are proving to be more efficient. Adding 5V and 3.3V circuitry to motherboards is an inexpensive and relatively easy task. Intel is on point with this push and I think it would be very positive the industry all around.

Intel isn't pushing this for their advantage, they're pushing this because it's a good thing for everyone. Whether you like Intel or not, this is something everyone should get behind.

 

[ZoneDymo]

lots of components that go into building a motherboard dont just magically appear at the manufactures door step. same goes for the psu manufacturer. if the standard changes than the supply line has to adjust to it. it drives cost up more than if things where moving more freely. we are literally in the middle of a labor and chip shortage thats not looking to get better anytime soon.

Yeah but those, not magically appearing, parts have to get there anyway wether its going to be a traditional z790 board or a z790 with this 10volt thing.

This change does require a bit of effort on the psu manufacturers side regarding adjusting the internals but that won't be affected by any shortages really.

So personally I still see no issue with releasing anything like this at this time

If anything this should decrease the cost of motherboards and increase the cost of psus
(EDIT, got this ^ indeed backwards, my bad, ignore that part)

 

[Final_Fighter]

Actually, not really. This is an excellent time for this push. 12V PSU's are simpler and easier to make than a standard PSU's and they are proving to be more efficient. Adding 5V and 3.3V circuitry to motherboards is an inexpensive and relatively easy task. Intel is on point with this push and I think it would be very positive the industry all around.

Intel isn't pushing this for their advantage, they're pushing this because it's a good thing for everyone. Whether you like Intel or not, this is something everyone should get behind.

all im saying is that "I" believe its not a good time. the reasons i posted are why i believe that. you may be right or i may be. time will tell. i dont have a problem with the standard.

 

[lexluthermiester]

So personally I still see no issue with releasing anything like this at this time

Then you are not understanding the technical aspect of these changes. They reduce the complexity of PSU construction and thus cost, increase PSU reliability and reduce power consumption.

If anything this should decrease the cost of.motherboards and increase the cost of psus

You have that backwards. PSU's will be LESS expensive and motherboards might increase in cost to a minor degree.

This is an all win situation for everyone. Intel has no stake in the design, it's completely an open standard.

all im saying is that "I" believe its not a good time. the reasons i posted are why i believe that. you may be right or i may be. time will tell. i dont have a problem with the standard.

I hope that didn't seem like an attack. I only wanted to help with the understanding that this is a very positive change for the industry. It's a change this is both logical from a design perspective, but also a cost perspective. More efficient and less expensive equals a win for everyone.

 

[Final_Fighter]

Yeah but those, not magically appearing, parts have to get there anyway we there its going to be a traditional z790 board or a 790 with this 10volt thing.

This change does require a bit of effort on the pau manufacturers side regarding adjusting the internals but that won't be affected by any shortages really.

So personally I still see no issue with releasing anything like this at this time

If anything this should decrease the cost of.motherboards and increase the cost of psus

thats an interesting take. let me be clear tho, i dont mind the standard. i think it should have been this way long ago. on your last point, i actually think power supplys will come down in price. i mean, all the psu will be at this point is an ac to dc converter. a few capacitors and a components to control the 12v ripple and all is good. its really going to be upto the motherboard to handle anything else past this point. i can already picture some interesting mods for motherboard that switch over to this design.

Then you are not understanding the technical aspect of these changes. They reduce the complexity of PSU construction and thus cost, increase PSU reliability and reduce power consumption.

You have that backwards. PSU's will be LESS expensive and motherboard might increase in cost to a minor degree.

This is an all win situation for everyone. Intel has no stake in the design, it's completely an open standard.


I hope that didn't seem like an attack. I only wanted to help with the understanding that this is a very positive change for the industry. It's a change this is both logical from a design perspective, but also a cost perspective. More efficient and less expensive equals a win for everyone.

No worries. The way i responded to the topic set me up. Neither one of us attacked each others character and the replys have not been visceral. In fact, i believe my replies to ZoneDymo appeard much more aggressive than yours did to me. Its just they way things are when we are behind a computer. Sometimes things appear harsh and are not meant to be.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Its just they way things are when we are behind a computer. Sometimes things appear harsh and are not meant to be.

Yeah, I'm one of those. My posts sometimes come off much more aggressive than I intend them to be. No worries at all.

 

[stimpy88]

So Intel will deliver a nice little motherboard tax with this. I wonder how much it will be... New PSU, new PSU 5v convertor cards/boxes for SATA and other peripherals... I don't think this will be cheap.

 

[lexluthermiester]

So Intel will deliver a nice little motherboard tax with this.

Once again, this is an OPEN STANDARDS change. Intel has no specific profit interest in the changes proposed. No royalties, nothing but a technological power delivery improvement and simplification...

New PSU, new PSU 5v convertor cards/boxes for SATA and other peripherals... I don't think this will be cheap.

That's a fair point. However, 12v->5v adapters are easily made and should be inexpensive for those of us still using SATA based components.

 

[laszlo]

for a saving of few watts on idle &low power load i don't know if is worth it

the mobo will be hotter as it will convert high amp 12v to high amp 5v and all other voltages.....cooling it will be more complex and what you save with psu (if will be cheaper?) you will spend on mobo and connectors..

is more like re-inventing the wheel by making it more complex but in the end with the same functionality and costs...

 

[lexluthermiester]

the mobo will be hotter as it will convert high amp 12v to high amp 5v and all other voltages

Either the conversion happens in the PSU or the mobo. Motherboards have always been a better place to do voltage conversion as there's more room for components and cooling potential.

 

[Rais]

That's ankward. You strip away DC-DC from PSU to make them more efficient, and this is obvious, but then you need to make that conversion somewhere else with unknown efficiency or quality.

Nowadays less and less components uses 5V and 3,3V, and power requirement for those are really low, and i get that transition to 12V has started more than 10 years ago, but still i'm not confident of having increasing power on motherboards. If it is a matter of efficiency, we need now to measure a mobo efficiency too.

 

[Zubasa]

Either the conversion happens in the PSU or the mobo. Motherboards have always been a better place to do voltage conversion as there's more room for components and cooling potential.

Not so sure about that.... Motherboards these days are pretty crowded already, especially any where near the CPU socket.
As for cooling, the PSU has a dedicated cooling fan, IDK of any case that focus on cooling around the motherboard power connectors.

 

[R0H1T]

Classic Intel - stupid inside

Cool line, will probably reuse it later

 

[billEST]

marketing number ....... at ide a gpu is 7 to 15 W minimum ....
20 W its a nuc ....

old psu golds v550 cooler master :

efficiency 86 % at 40 W 90 % at 60 W

2.842A​	0.500A​	0.475A​	0.200A​	39.76W​	87.85%​	585 RPM​	27.9 dBA​	0.668​
12.202V​	4.983V​	3.353V​	4.978V​	45.26W​	230.2V​
2​	4.060A​	0.998A​	0.985A​	0.400A​	59.77W​	90.48%​

 

[TheLostSwede]

Not entirely sure how that is related.
New motherboards have to be made anyway regardless of what the end up using.

New psu's for oem builds, again not sure how it would be a problem

Because this will require additional parts in the boards for all the extra power conversion. Parts that are already in tight supply. In fact, a lot of upcoming boards have had to be redesigned due to the power conversion IC makers killing of certain product lines to be able to provide enough parts of their more popular products.

Actually, not really. This is an excellent time for this push. 12V PSU's are much simpler and easier to make than a standard PSU's and they are proving to be more efficient. Adding 5V and 3.3V circuitry to motherboards is an inexpensive and relatively easy task. Intel is on point with this push and I think it would be very positive the industry all around.

Intel isn't pushing this for their advantage, they're pushing this because it's a good thing for everyone. Whether you like Intel or not, this is something everyone should get behind.

See my reply above. There's a huge shortage of those parts right now, so it's actually a terrible time to make this move. Also, the board makers and the PSU makers are not onboard with this standard, so it'll most likely be BTX 2.0 in terms of popularity outside the likes of Dell and HP.

 

[ExcuseMeWtf]

Transition period will be painful regardless, but at some point gotta bite the bullet and go for it, as looking past obvious incompatibility with existing standard, it is change for the better.

 

[Zubasa]

Transition period will be painful regardless, but at some point gotta bite the bullet and go for it, as it is change for the better.

So far this seems like a solution to a problem that doesn't really exist.
All this does is moving parts of the PSU on to the motherboard.
Now instead of PSU makers having to achieve higher efficiency, the ball is just passed down to the Motherboard.

 

[R0H1T]

So far this seems like a solution to a problem that doesn't really exist.
All this does is moving parts of the PSU on to the motherboard.

Not to mention doesn't cost Intel a darn cent, all the costs will be borne by their "partners"

Unless of course they go full Atom & subsidize these parts

 

[ExcuseMeWtf]

So far this seems like a solution to a problem that doesn't really exist.
All this does is moving parts of the PSU on to the motherboard.

Motherboards already have dedicated VRMs for tighter regulation and ripple suppression than what PSU can do. It's not like they're gonna take out secondary VRM boards from PSUs and put them onto mobos next to existing VRMs, it's not how things work lol.

This might increase requirements for the existing VRM designs (and hence cost to some extent), but that's about it.