(Anti) SFF fun house

[MIRTAZAPINE]

What is the volume of that tiny HT5 baby computer vs the ceberus? Make me wanna finish up my little case build but I am broke... How you got a 5900x? These things are so rare now! The current global chip shortage is not helping it too.

I know I should complain with my workstation laptop that is about you ceberus performance but those are some nice neat tidy cabled Pc.

 

[tabascosauz]

What is the volume of that tiny HT5 baby computer vs the ceberus? Make me wanna finish up my little case build but I am broke... How you got a 5900x? These things are so rare now! The current global chip shortage is not helping it too.

I know I should complain with my workstation laptop that is about you ceberus performance but those are some nice neat tidy cabled Pc.

I don't mind, always happy to hear how you're doing

HT5: 5.3L
Cerberus: 18L or 19L depending on who you ask

Do you actually game much these days? If not, assuming AMD decides to properly release Cezanne for desktop maybe you could build a tiny PC with one, no GPU needed.

Yeah the 5900X is a unicorn, it's the hardest SKU to find here. No wonder, since the only one that's not priced out of its frickin mind. I waited patiently in the preorder queue from about Nov 9 to Feb 18.

But it's fast, silicon quality is good, it's completely stable unlike the 3700X, and I didn't pay scalpers.

You're really not missing out on too much MT perf with the 3900, aside from the performance you lose going down to a 88W PPT. AMD is running the 5900X and 5950X more conservatively out of the box, so there are big ST gains but without PBO I've not been able to actually exceed 135W PPT even in heavy benchmarks, even though PPT is still 142W limit and temps are low. Stock MT isn't much faster than 3900X.

 

[MIRTAZAPINE]

I don't mind, always happy to hear how you're doing

I guess I am fine *insert meme with dog house on fire*. Haha things are under control still.

I don't game these days, not in the mood also my old games is in my old windows install that I never brought over. I could make do with a less powerful gpu if there is video acceleration present as I consume 4k60 content alot and the RTX 2070 laptop do help it immensely without taking up the cpu.

That HT5 is almost 4 times small than the ceberus! Old bestie must be jealous you are playing with the new young girl now xD.

I guess there is no reason for me to upgrade then, I just thought in thermally constraint environment my 5900x would be better.

Nowadays I think PC building is dying hobby with the current prices I compared prices is really insane not just gpu and cpu. Memory prices too the same, the 64GB sodimm in my laptop now cost more than when I got it last year. I thought of just putting my laptop home to mine crypto and build up the itx for portable use. I have the ZS-A4DC a 3.9 litre case for so long now. There are literally no parts. Waiting for the Cezanne hopefully with good price. Judging by history it maybe an OEM only part again. I am frankly hoping for a low profile gpu that could succeed the 1650 lp which again no stock everywhere here too. I wish there is a Rtx 3050 LP to succeed that, might be putting my hopes up too high.

 

[tabascosauz]

I don't game these days, not in the mood also my old games is in my old windows install that I never brought over. I could make do with a less powerful gpu if there is video acceleration present as I consume 4k60 content alot and the RTX 2070 laptop do help it immensely without taking up the cpu.

That HT5 is almost 4 times small than the ceberus! Old bestie must be jealous you are playing with the new young girl now xD.

The HT5 is just hooked up to the TV for TV shows and movies, so pretty much all hardware requirements are very light. When I need to leave the house with the ability to hook up to a TV at someone else's place, I throw it in a bag and go.

All the heavy lifting is still done by the one in the Cerberus.

Nowadays I think PC building is dying hobby with the current prices I compared prices is really insane not just gpu and cpu. I have the ZS-A4DC a 3.9 litre case for so long now. There are literally no parts. Waiting for the Cezanne hopefully with good price. Judging by history it maybe an OEM only part again. I am frankly hoping for a low profile gpu that could succeed the 1650 lp which again no stock everywhere here too. I wish there is a Rtx 3050 LP to succeed that, might be putting my hopes up too high.

What the HECK that's an awesome case. 4L for a full-height GPU?? I swear there are too many cool little SFF cases on Taobao for me to ever keep track of. The flipped orientation of the GPU is a little weird, but hey, whatever works to get it to 4L. Given you already have a 2070 in the laptop, you could put just about anything in that tiny case. Maybe Xe will finally make a 11400 competitive with a 4650G.

I agree on the parts market. Things are looking worse by the day - looked on ca.pcpartpicker today and the only GPUs you can get are GT 1030s and low end Quadros/Radeon Pro. Damn miners and scalpers keep this up and those new Macs are only going to continue taking over at an accelerated pace.

 

[MIRTAZAPINE]

The HT5 is just hooked up to the TV for TV shows and movies, so pretty much all hardware requirements are very light. When I need to leave the house with the ability to hook up to a TV at someone else's place, I throw it in a bag and go.

All the heavy lifting is still done by the one in the Cerberus.

What do you use to watch tv show? Netflix? That sounds like a tv box on steroids. Ahh so all of bestie is in Cerberus now for the heavy lift?

What the HECK that's an awesome case. 4L for a full-height GPU?? I swear there are too many cool little SFF cases on Taobao for me to ever keep track of. The flipped orientation of the GPU is a little weird, but hey, whatever works to get it to 4L. Given you already have a 2070 in the laptop, you could put just about anything in that tiny case. Maybe Xe will finally make a 11400 competitive with a 4650G.

I agree on the parts market. Things are looking worse by the day - looked on ca.pcpartpicker today and the only GPUs you can get are GT 1030s and low end Quadros/Radeon Pro. Damn miners and scalpers keep this up and those new Macs are only going to continue taking over at an accelerated pace.

Yes! 4L with a full height gpu but it have to be 18cm long max but you have to use an external psu for that. Using a low profile gpu you could be fit a flex psu inside. Theoretically I can fit a full height gpu if I were to get get a HDplex AC-DC. I love the thickness for this case, its tiny but the aluminium is milled 2.5-3mm thick even thicker than an Ncase M1 panels! It have zero flex at all. The ZS-A4DC is the first model with the hexagon mesh rather than the round one for the new ones, I think it look better than the new. It took me 2 months to get this Taobao case pre-covid, now I don't even know. Remember my eyerobo pc case a few years back, this Zs-a4dc is like a tiny baby that came from it. Its 2 times smaller in all dimensions from 40cmx40cmx17cm to 21cmx20cmx10cm. I just wanna make a robot face plate for it haha, to make a baby robot.

Same here! Here in local Singapore, there is this PC mall call Sim Lim square, I went each shop no gpu except GT1030, GT710(worse than onboard) and Gtx 1050 left. If I don't see anything on shelves pretty much its nothing. Its frankly cheaper now to buy a prebuilt throw the rest of the parts and take the gpu than it is to buy the gpu alone. Lmao an RTX 3060ti cost more than a full intel prebuilt with Rtx 3070. I excited about the Xe GPU. Need something for the low to mid end space!

 

[tabascosauz]

Yes! 4L with a full height gpu but it have to be 18cm long max but you have to use an external psu for that. Using a low profile gpu you could be fit a flex psu inside. Theoretically I can fit a full height gpu if I were to get get a HDplex AC-DC. I love the thickness for this case, its tiny but the aluminium is milled 2.5-3mm thick even thicker than an Ncase M1 panels! It have zero flex at all. The ZS-A4DC is the first model with the hexagon mesh rather than the round one for the new ones, I think it look better than the new. It took me 2 months to get this Taobao case pre-covid, now I don't even know. Remember my eyerobo pc case a few years back, this Zs-a4dc is like a tiny baby that came from it. Its 2 times smaller in all dimensions from 40cmx40cmx17cm to 21cmx20cmx10cm. I just wanna make a robot face plate for it haha, to make a baby robot.

Same here! Here in local Singapore, there is this PC mall call Sim Lim square, I went each shop no gpu except GT1030, GT710(worse than onboard) and Gtx 1050 left. If I don't see anything on shelves pretty much its nothing. Its frankly cheaper now to buy a prebuilt throw the rest of the parts and take the gpu than it is to buy the gpu alone. Lmao an RTX 3060ti cost more than a full intel prebuilt with Rtx 3070. I excited about the Xe GPU. Need something for the low to mid end space!

Didn't you have an external brick for a G-UNIQUE though? Or am I misremembering

If HDPlex says it's in stock, it really is in stock. Was an easy and painless experience buying from their USA branch. Well made, well packaged, shipped immediately.

Dang, 2.5-3mm is like Ghost S1 territory. That's awesome, it doesn't get thicker than that. DAN-A4 is 1.5mm, M1 is 1.5mm, Cerberus is 2mm, Caselabs was 3mm. I think you can still use the HDPlex 200W DC-ATX, just don't pair it with the 200W AC-DC (grey brick inside my HT5), and use a very chunky 19V external brick lol. Perhaps another one like the one you use on your big laptop, as long as it's 19V.

I still remember the eyerobo, that case really had character I hope you kept it

GPU market is same here. Only chance is to buy a prebuilt. Which works really well if someone in your family needs an office PC

imma ask my sg friend where sim lim square is and tell her to hang out there for a day lol

 

[MIRTAZAPINE]

Didn't you have an external brick for a G-UNIQUE though? Or am I misremembering

If HDPlex says it's in stock, it really is in stock. Was an easy and painless experience buying from their USA branch. Well made, well packaged, shipped immediately.

Dang, 2.5-3mm is like Ghost S1 territory. That's awesome, it doesn't get thicker than that. DAN-A4 is 1.5mm, M1 is 1.5mm, Cerberus is 2mm, Caselabs was 3mm. I think you can still use the HDPlex 200W DC-ATX, just don't pair it with the 200W AC-DC (grey brick inside my HT5), and use a very chunky 19V external brick lol. Perhaps another one like the one you use on your big laptop, as long as it's 19V.

I still remember the eyerobo, that case really had character I hope you kept it

GPU market is same here. Only chance is to buy a prebuilt. Which works really well if someone in your family needs an office PC

imma ask my sg friend where sim lim square is and tell her to hang out there for a day lol

Yes its the G-unique 500w brick. I was curious to see how it work with the case the pico psu 8-pin connector is a tight fit to the case. I had to bend the clips of the connecting wire to plug it in, now it kinda loose than before . Look like I don't think this is a good idea to plug in and out often as it does take a good force to plug it in. Would be better if it is a regular barrel plug though or an xt60 connector. I also realised it take alot of planning for assemble in this case with its many hex screw, lol just using my imagination and putting it back I am feeling the frustration haha.

Don't mean to hijack this thread but the case picture for it metal thickness. Taobao cases don't come perfect, mine came with a couple of scratches. If not for the case thick 3mm skin it would probably came in pretty bent. Popular cheap taobao cases like the K39 which is a Velka 3 equivalent often come in bent as their pretty much thin cans and shipping boxes took many abuse. For $40 for a k39 it is not so bad for its thin metal.

Ahh the eyerobo I love the character so friendly! It is sad that GMC the case company in korea close down. I love their outrageous take to cases like bulldozer and a hifi radio. Yes I still kept it! Side panel a bit bent and the front face is abit yellowed. I would probably use it for my windows xp/98se build as it still got that cd drive bay at it mouth xD. I would love to make a modern take of the robot face with my zs-a4dc or another new case.

I decided to buy the deskmini x300 instead I just ordered it. X_X It was the last one in stock, its an apu only barebone kit, now just need an Apu. I was too late in picking up a 3000g apu their sold out on amazon, thought it might hold me out until cezanne. I am now left with the choice of 4650g or 4750g on aliexpress? Any suggestions?

You would spent the hold day in Sim Lim square IT mall lol. Frankly I always buy my stuff from newegg or amazon as online is cheaper. Since now due to covid and price increase I went there to get my stuff as prices cheaper at the mall now and with local warranty. Sim Lim have quite a variety of stuff from cameras, smartphone, networking stuff, custom speaker system, the common deskstop stuff, laptops and accessories. Pretty much all tech stuff there, only somethings I find price rather high unless you know which shops to go to and you got a good relationship with them.

 

[Chrispy_]

I'm just replying to this thread as a lazy way to sub. Not sure how I missed this last year, but it's all good stuff relevant to my interests.

I've long stopped using them now but did you spray your TJ08-E, or is that a newer revision that just looks classier and higher-quality than the dozens I've built? I always considered it a good case but lacking in the paint-finish and manufacturing tolerances department.

 

[tabascosauz]

Yes its the G-unique 500w brick. I was curious to see how it work with the case the pico psu 8-pin connector is a tight fit to the case. I had to bend the clips of the connecting wire to plug it in, now it kinda loose than before . Look like I don't think this is a good idea to plug in and out often as it does take a good force to plug it in. Would be better if it is a regular barrel plug though or an xt60 connector. I also realised it take alot of planning for assemble in this case with its many hex screw, lol just using my imagination and putting it back I am feeling the frustration haha.

Don't mean to hijack this thread but the case picture for it metal thickness. Taobao cases don't come perfect, mine came with a couple of scratches. If not for the case thick 3mm skin it would probably came in pretty bent. Popular cheap taobao cases like the K39 which is a Velka 3 equivalent often come in bent as their pretty much thin cans and shipping boxes took many abuse. For $40 for a k39 it is not so bad for its thin metal.

Ahh the eyerobo I love the character so friendly! It is sad that GMC the case company in korea close down. I love their outrageous take to cases like bulldozer and a hifi radio. Yes I still kept it! Side panel a bit bent and the front face is abit yellowed. I would probably use it for my windows xp/98se build as it still got that cd drive bay at it mouth xD. I would love to make a modern take of the robot face with my zs-a4dc or another new case.

I decided to buy the deskmini x300 instead I just ordered it. X_X It was the last one in stock, its an apu only barebone kit, now just need an Apu. I was too late in picking up a 3000g apu their sold out on amazon, thought it might hold me out until cezanne. I am now left with the choice of 4650g or 4750g on aliexpress? Any suggestions?

You would spent the hold day in Sim Lim square IT mall lol. Frankly I always buy my stuff from newegg or amazon as online is cheaper. Since now due to covid and price increase I went there to get my stuff as prices cheaper at the mall now and with local warranty. Sim Lim have quite a variety of stuff from cameras, smartphone, networking stuff, custom speaker system, the common deskstop stuff, laptops and accessories. Pretty much all tech stuff there, only somethings I find price rather high unless you know which shops to go to and you got a good relationship with them.

I'm surprised it's not a 7.4mm barrel connector on the external brick? Even the 200W HDPlex has (albeit their special easy to connect version) the 7.4mm x 5mm barrel in the box for use with external bricks.

That case looks friggin amazing, it would have made my shortlist if I had known about it and if it had maybe a bit more CPU cooler clearance......

......which is why I can't believe you went and bought a Deskmini! I mean yeah, I can understand the allure of the Deskmini because it's so small, but you already have such a nice case to build in! You get to choose from all sorts of A520 and B550 boards, can upgrade/replace every component, and don't have to use SO-DIMMs.

If you just want a PC for media consumption and light gaming, 4650G no doubt. 4750G is very expensive and honestly the only reason I would buy one would be if I was a competitive mem overclocker and wanted to maximize my chances of getting a top binned UMC for pushing DDR4-6000. If AMD put Vega 11 back into the 5750G it might be a better buy, but it just doesn't make sense unless you have money to burn on having "the best APU on the market". $337CAD for my 4650G, whereas 4750G is $500CAD+ for 2 more cores and a barely faster iGPU.

I'm just replying to this thread as a lazy way to sub. Not sure how I missed this last year, but it's all good stuff relevant to my interests.

I've long stopped using them now but did you spray your TJ08-E, or is that a newer revision that just looks classier and higher-quality than the dozens I've built? I always considered it a good case but lacking in the paint-finish and manufacturing tolerances department.

That's the way it came to me. I think I have the TJ08T-E so not the black one? Silverstone Technoloy Micro-ATX Mini-DTX, Mini-Itx Mid Tower Computer Case with Aluminum Front Panel and Steel Body TJ08T-E-USA: Amazon.ca: Computers & Tablets

The finish on the panels are actually really good. I guess they painted the T-E differently from the ubiquitous B-E version. But yeah, I agree, I didn't end up using the TJ08 for very long. Fit and finish left a lot to be desired and there was also the issue with getting the GPU and PSU to peacefully coexist in the same space. And the alignment of the frickin 5.25" bay covers, ugh.

Not that I can go back to the TJ08 anymore lol. The Cerberus is too good. The TJ08 is still in storage though.

 

[tabascosauz]

I thought I'd do some quick tests at the same memory speeds.

• Stock CPU + 1900MHz GPU + 4200 17-18-18: 1621/38.7/20.4
• 4.1 @ 1.3V + 1900MHz GPU + 4200 17-18-18: 1628/38.9/24.6
• 4.0 @ 1.208V + 2200MHz GPU + 3600 16-16-16: 1690/40.4/26.1 (+4.2%)
• 4.0 @ 1.208V + 2200MHz GPU + 4200 17-18-18: 1779/42.5/27.3 (+9.7%)
• 4.0 @ 1.208V + 2300MHz GPU + 4000 16-16-16: 1792/42.8/27.3 (+10.5%)
• Stock CPU + 2300MHz GPU + 4200 17-18-18: 1818/43.5/27.8 (+12.1%)
• 4.0 @ 1.208V + 2300MHz GPU + 4200 17-18-18: 1823/43.6/27.8 (+12.4%)

More than anything else I wanted to know more about how the power limits affect GPU performance. Unfortunately, Valley isn't really hitting the power limit. Need to test more.

The only real FPS drops I have with Genshin Impact are during adverse weather and primarily main street Mondstadt and Liyue at night-time. It appears to be the sheer number of light sources that are tanking what is usually a constant 60FPS down to about 40FPS, which doesn't seem to be a solvable problem as iirc lighting ties heavily to ROPs, which iGPU Vega has always been short of.

OCing the iGPU sucks. Latest HWInfo appears to have made the VDDCR_GFX rail visible in software, which seems to be the actual Vcore for the GPU and not the previous idiotic GPU Voltage that went up to 1.4V, but it's not modifiable. There are two areas in BIOSes where iGPU clock/voltage can be changed, one of which is under AMD OC. The AMD OC menu straight up doesn't work. The only effective setting in the regular menu is changing GPU clock to the desired speed, which has the effect of both setting GPU clock and overriding VDDCR_GFX to VSOC; the VID value in the regular menu doesn't work either. Unfortunately, there's no middle ground for VDDCR_GFX - it's either stock (~0.7-0.984V), or VSOC (in this case, 1.2V). There's no in-between, and there's no way to set anything else.

Because it's a monolithic die, temperatures and power draw also get......interesting, to say the least. The usual "GPU Temperature" sensor is pretty useless as it has no granularity to decimal point values, whereas the APU GFX sensor usually looks similar except has more precision as is expected from a CPU sensor. But both of them report wildly different max values. APU GFX falls in close to CPU SOC, whereas GPU Temperature just seems like a shittier version of Tctl/Tdie with a negative offset. According to GPU Temperature, it only ever gets to 50C in games even with 99% usage, but when the cores are running Prime95 the GPU Temperature can get up to 70C? GPU Power through VDDCR_GFX also seems irreconcilable with SMU CPU Package Power and PPT, as it draws up to 30W more than the entire CPU appears to be drawing which makes no sense.

What a gong show. At least 2300MHz works, I guess?

 

[Valantar]

I thought I'd do some quick tests at the same memory speeds.

• Stock CPU + 1900MHz GPU + 4200 17-18-18: 1621/38.7/20.4
• 4.1 @ 1.3V + 1900MHz GPU + 4200 17-18-18: 1628/38.9/24.6
• 4.0 @ 1.208V + 2200MHz GPU + 3600 16-16-16: 1690/40.4/26.1 (+4.2%)
• 4.0 @ 1.208V + 2200MHz GPU + 4200 17-18-18: 1779/42.5/27.3 (+9.7%)
• 4.0 @ 1.208V + 2300MHz GPU + 4000 16-16-16: 1792/42.8/27.3 (+10.5%)
• Stock CPU + 2300MHz GPU + 4200 17-18-18: 1818/43.5/27.8 (+12.1%)
• 4.0 @ 1.208V + 2300MHz GPU + 4200 17-18-18: 1823/43.6/27.8 (+12.4%)

More than anything else I wanted to know more about how the power limits affect GPU performance. Unfortunately, Valley isn't really hitting the power limit. Need to test more.

The only real FPS drops I have with Genshin Impact are during adverse weather and primarily main street Mondstadt and Liyue at night-time. It appears to be the sheer number of light sources that are tanking what is usually a constant 60FPS down to about 40FPS, which doesn't seem to be a solvable problem as iirc lighting ties heavily to ROPs, which iGPU Vega has always been short of.

OCing the iGPU sucks. Latest HWInfo appears to have made the VDDCR_GFX rail visible in software, which seems to be the actual Vcore for the GPU and not the previous idiotic GPU Voltage that went up to 1.4V, but it's not modifiable. There are two areas in BIOSes where iGPU clock/voltage can be changed, one of which is under AMD OC. The AMD OC menu straight up doesn't work. The only effective setting in the regular menu is changing GPU clock to the desired speed, which has the effect of both setting GPU clock and overriding VDDCR_GFX to VSOC; the VID value in the regular menu doesn't work either. Unfortunately, there's no middle ground for VDDCR_GFX - it's either stock (~0.7-0.984V), or VSOC (in this case, 1.2V). There's no in-between, and there's no way to set anything else.

Because it's a monolithic die, temperatures and power draw also get......interesting, to say the least. The usual "GPU Temperature" sensor is pretty useless as it has no granularity to decimal point values, whereas the APU GFX sensor usually looks similar except has more precision as is expected from a CPU sensor. But both of them report wildly different max values. APU GFX falls in close to CPU SOC, whereas GPU Temperature just seems like a shittier version of Tctl/Tdie with a negative offset. According to GPU Temperature, it only ever gets to 50C in games even with 99% usage, but when the cores are running Prime95 the GPU Temperature can get up to 70C? GPU Power through VDDCR_GFX also seems irreconcilable with SMU CPU Package Power and PPT, as it draws up to 30W more than the entire CPU appears to be drawing which makes no sense.

What a gong show. At least 2300MHz works, I guess?

This was really interesting! Seems that your experiences reflect mine in terms of the difficulty/impossibility of GPU OC and voltage adjustment - though you clearly made more sense of it that I did. I think you've got a bit better of a chip than me - from what I can remember I couldn't get my iGPU stable at 2300 or 2200 regardless of setting the SOC voltage to 1.2 (I think I might have tried something like 1.22 too, though I can't quite remember). 2100 seems like kind of a ceiling for mine, which runs fine at ... I want to say 1.15V that I've set VSOC to, though I'll have to double check that. So far it's been rock solid stable at 2100 at least. That might possibly be affected by the motherboard too - if yours is in the Aorus B550 it's no doubt better controlled than in the cheap ASRock I'm running. I spent a couple of hours playing Rocket League on the HTPC the other day, and I have to say that even at 1600x900 on a 55" TV, it delivers a really enjoyable experience at 80-110fps with FreeSync working very nicely. Definitely happy with the performance increase from the iGPU OC + 3800MHz RAM.

 

[tabascosauz]

This was really interesting! Seems that your experiences reflect mine in terms of the difficulty/impossibility of GPU OC and voltage adjustment - though you clearly made more sense of it that I did. I think you've got a bit better of a chip than me - from what I can remember I couldn't get my iGPU stable at 2300 or 2200 regardless of setting the SOC voltage to 1.2 (I think I might have tried something like 1.22 too, though I can't quite remember). 2100 seems like kind of a ceiling for mine, which runs fine at ... I want to say 1.15V that I've set VSOC to, though I'll have to double check that. So far it's been rock solid stable at 2100 at least. That might possibly be affected by the motherboard too - if yours is in the Aorus B550 it's no doubt better controlled than in the cheap ASRock I'm running. I spent a couple of hours playing Rocket League on the HTPC the other day, and I have to say that even at 1600x900 on a 55" TV, it delivers a really enjoyable experience at 80-110fps with FreeSync working very nicely. Definitely happy with the performance increase from the iGPU OC + 3800MHz RAM.

I have crazy amounts of vdroop on VSOC when the GPU is in play, that I can't seem to compensate for at ALL with LLC (maybe ~0.01V less droop between Normal and Turbo (second highest), if that). On the desktop it's a pretty normal amount of droop, but as soon as I'm in-game and the current starts flowing that 1.2V VSOC almost instantly drops to ~1.10V! I think I have it stable at 1.196V Turbo LLC right now, but the Radeon driver didn't quite like it when I dropped to 1.190V High LLC @ 2300MHz GPU.

This sort of behaviour also applies to Vcore, LLC is almost useless there's so much droop. But while it would be fine to have like 1.35V SET 1.20V GET on Vcore, I don't have that kind of leeway with setting much higher VSOC and waiting for droop! I'd imagine that the crazy droop can affect both IF and iGPU stability when in-game.

Overall, I don't like this new Renesas RAA229004+ISL99390 setup on a lot of B550 upper-midrange boards. I know the IR35201 on my old board had much tighter LLC, so maybe the X570I Aorus Pro Wifi with IR35201+TDA21472 would be better if it didn't have the shitty 16MB chip and its associated BIOS issues

I think your APU board has a different PWM? The mATX Steel Legend that I had for a little bit had the same UP9505S+UP1911R+SIC654 setup, just more phases. I didn't test static OCs on that board, but it might be worth testing with higher LLC.

 

[tabascosauz]

My mum has been telling me how jealous she is of my HT5 build and how unnecessarily big her desktop is. Well, she's one to talk, seeing as she's the one who kidnapped what was formerly my Haswell/R9 280X desktop in 2014 for the last 7 years. I guess I'll finally have my chunky R9 280X Vapor-X back in my hands soon.



Anywho, another small build this time. Still haven't exactly nailed down what case I'll be using this time, just collecting parts for now. Whichever is in stock, I guess.

Because my current 4650G will be going into this one (probably get a 5600G either grey market now or retail in August), not sure yet if I'll go without a CPU in my HTPC for a month or two, or make her wait a month or two.

I'll take my naked B-die kit and run it at something like 3600 16-16-16 to run some low VDIMM. Yeah, I know, it'll do 4200 17-18-18 but I don't think my E-die Tridents will fit under the L12S.

As for the board, I gave it some thought and decided on the cheap ASRock one.

• B550M-ITX/ac: specs are similar to the MSI B450I MAX in almost every way, slightly weaker VRM but that's okay for a 65W APU.
• B450I Aorus Pro Wifi: the first AM4 board I had, absolute dogshit BIOS, the dreaded Gigabyte 16MB BIOS chip and no Q-flash so no.
• B450I Gaming MAX: slightly stronger VRM which is irrelevant. In the end I couldn't shake the memory of the only MSI board I ever had, a H81 ITX board that died after 1 year of use. I've never had a motherboard that unreliable. The other ASRock board I have lasted me 7 years. Features are also about as thin as on the ASRock board as well, not much cheaper.
• Everything else: too expensive

The HDPlex 200W DC-ATX has been brilliant. But leaning towards the Lone L5 (~4.5L), so I'll need an external brick (as opposed to the internal HDPlex 200W AC-DC in my HT5). I got the 240W Dell 450-AHHE to use up some of my Dell Rewards discounts, should make for an interesting experience.

 

[MIRTAZAPINE]

I wanted to buy this cheap asrock too. It is the only asrock board that fit in my tiny case but I have putting it off in current financial times. Asrock itx have been decent boards by experience based on my prior fatal1ty AB350 itx asrock. It also have the same layout for cpu power which fit my tiny case kinda regret selling this one it supported cpu up until Ryzen 3000. That is 3 generations of cpu support from the 1000s series, hats off to asrock when the ryzen 3000 series is themselves not officially supported by AMD.

Only downside if if you like to overclock their board have a lesser headroom otherwise they are excellent boards for plug and play. My overclocking days are over so even a basic board could do to me. Also hey it more fun getting satisfaction spending less too but having it working out so good.

Lone L5? Somehow when I read that I thought the case is lonely. Look like a good case with a low profile gpu slot. I also regret not purchasing a 1650 lp when it was in stock. The 1650lp have been out of stock for months, There is the 1050ti lp still left in my local online store not sure if it worth grabbing as its like $40 more expensive than the 1650lp at msrp and being abit slower.

Because of the Chia crypto currency I have upgraded my laptop SSD which was already in badly in need of upgrade. Replace the 512GB samsung with a 2TB sabrent rocket ssd. Luckily I grab that otherwise doing school work would be tough. Again something which I should do earlier, I luck it out grabbing it before 2TB nvme became crazy priced. I also used my crucial p1 1TB ssd which was once in an external case. I thought the ssd was the problem but it turns out my laptop usb port is not friendly with it using the external ssd enclousure. Yeah laptop need a repair but I have no spare little deskstop with a webcam for work.

I could grab a 3200G as temporary cpu with my deskmini x300 with my laptop sodimm while my laptop is sending for repair....That is the only thing I can think off without breaking the bank.

 

[tabascosauz]

I wanted to buy this cheap asrock too. It is the only asrock board that fit in my tiny case but I have putting it off in current financial times. Asrock itx have been decent boards by experience based on my prior fatal1ty AB350 itx asrock. It also have the same layout for cpu power which fit my tiny case kinda regret selling this one it supported cpu up until Ryzen 3000. That is 3 generations of cpu support from the 1000s series, hats off to asrock when the ryzen 3000 series is themselves not officially supported by AMD.

Only downside if if you like to overclock their board have a lesser headroom otherwise they are excellent boards for plug and play. My overclocking days are over so even a basic board could do to me. Also hey it more fun getting satisfaction spending less too but having it working out so good.

Lone L5? Somehow when I read that I thought the case is lonely. Look like a good case with a low profile gpu slot. I also regret not purchasing a 1650 lp when it was in stock. The 1650lp have been out of stock for months, There is the 1050ti lp still left in my local online store not sure if it worth grabbing as its like $40 more expensive than the 1650lp at msrp and being abit slower.

Because of the Chia crypto currency I have upgraded my laptop SSD which was already in badly in need of upgrade. Replace the 512GB samsung with a 2TB sabrent rocket ssd. Luckily I grab that otherwise doing school work would be tough. Again something which I should do earlier, I luck it out grabbing it before 2TB nvme became crazy priced. I also used my crucial p1 1TB ssd which was once in an external case. I thought the ssd was the problem but it turns out my laptop usb port is not friendly with it using the external ssd enclousure. Yeah laptop need a repair but I have no spare little deskstop with a webcam for work.

I could grab a 3200G as temporary cpu with my deskmini x300 with my laptop sodimm while my laptop is sending for repair....That is the only thing I can think off without breaking the bank.

Well hey, you've already got the X300 Deskmini, pretty amazing setup in itself . I've already got two DDR4 kits lying around, both of which I know like the back of my hand, so it would be a waste to go Deskmini and have to buy SO-DIMMs. That, and my mother wants something with excellent build quality and also white in colour, so the Deskmini won't do. Thankfully she won't be doing OC so the 6 x 50A VRM, cigar-shaped heatsink and the 6-layer PCB should be no problemo

The Lone L5 is great because it's the only case made here in Canada - guy lives in Alberta I think, so domestic shipping. It's just that production is always so limited. If pandemic restrictions weren't in place I could spend two, three days on the road and just drive there to pick it up, get away from the rat race for a while.

If you need a CPU but also save a buck, what about a 4350G? Surely it should be a better solution than a 3200G, and the 4C/8T seemed to not be too expensive either when I bought my 4650G.

Chia didn't seem to make much of a dent on SSD prices here. The SN550 I ordered off Amazon for this build was the exact same price as when I bought my SN550 for my laptop. Thank god for that, I don't know what I would do if SSDs became like GPUs. Speaking of GPUs, some of my friends who missed getting a GPU before ETH are really going crazy now, and I can feel their pain. $589CAD GTX1660, yikes. Even the GTX1650 is something like $450 I think, and on a waiting list. $450 to be put on a waiting list for a LP GPU. Jumping jack christ.

 

[Valantar]

That ASRock board is what I've got in my HTPC, and it pairs beautifully with the 4650G IMO. Basic, but rock solid so far. Decent featureset for the price too. I actually considered going for the A520 version, but went B550 purely for memory OC reasons (I don't think I ever actually figured out if A520 supports mem oc at all?). Otherwise the A520 looks like a steal for a basic setup.

 

[MIRTAZAPINE]

Well hey, you've already got the X300 Deskmini, pretty amazing setup in itself . I've already got two DDR4 kits lying around, both of which I know like the back of my hand, so it would be a waste to go Deskmini and have to buy SO-DIMMs. That, and my mother wants something with excellent build quality and also white in colour, so the Deskmini won't do. Thankfully she won't be doing OC so the 6 x 50A VRM, cigar-shaped heatsink and the 6-layer PCB should be no problemo

The Lone L5 is great because it's the only case made here in Canada - guy lives in Alberta I think, so domestic shipping. It's just that production is always so limited. If pandemic restrictions weren't in place I could spend two, three days on the road and just drive there to pick it up, get away from the rat race for a while.

If you need a CPU but also save a buck, what about a 4350G? Surely it should be a better solution than a 3200G, and the 4C/8T seemed to not be too expensive either when I bought my 4650G.

Chia didn't seem to make much of a dent on SSD prices here. The SN550 I ordered off Amazon for this build was the exact same price as when I bought my SN550 for my laptop. Thank god for that, I don't know what I would do if SSDs became like GPUs. Speaking of GPUs, some of my friends who missed getting a GPU before ETH are really going crazy now, and I can feel their pain. $589CAD GTX1660, yikes. Even the GTX1650 is something like $450 I think, and on a waiting list. $450 to be put on a waiting list for a LP GPU. Jumping jack christ.

Ohhh if you have those ddr4 high speed sticks the choice is obvious for you then. Somehow I think those rams kits are abit overkill lol. My deskmini is still lonely inside its box, I got it because I the only ddr4 rams I got is sodimms like my laptop which this deskmini board support. I saw some people painted their deskmini white, you can consider but since you got the rams Lone L5 might be better.

"6 x 50A VRM, cigar-shaped heatsink and the 6-layer PCB should be no problemo." I can hear my laptop fans whirling up in offense when you said that . It feelings is hurt. It is asking "I am a joke to you?" xD

How many cases would you have now? Damn that is great that is local! Shipping price is a nightmare for sff cases usually.

There is no 4350G locally though. Going 4350g is putting real close to 4650g based on online price. I'll think about this.

Chia mostly make dent for nvme drives 2TB and above. Sata ssd drives is not affected much and 1TB nvme is less affected. On HDD land on the other hand anything above 5TB for 3.5 inch are gone. I grabbed 5TB seagate 2.5 inch drives instead to tide me this period, just when I thought of getting rid of SMR based drives and going all WD PMR 3.5 inch this happens. Sigh.
Gpu land here is about the same too with 1660 being around that price. Gtx 1650 raise abit but stocks are there still I think have not went down the shop yet to see only based on local online retailers.

 

[tabascosauz]

"6 x 50A VRM, cigar-shaped heatsink and the 6-layer PCB should be no problemo." I can hear my laptop fans whirling up in offense when you said that . It feelings is hurt. It is asking "I am a joke to you?" xD

Well, running a 12-core in a laptop is always an achievement lol, hats off to you. But VRM was definitely a bit of an issue for the B450 ITX boards. The ASRock board used decent dual N-fets but still discretes, the Gigabyte (that I had) didn't have the Vcore phases for 12-16 core CPUs, and the 40A PowIRs on the Asus kinda let it down.

How many cases would you have now? Damn that is great that is local! Shipping price is a nightmare for sff cases usually.

There is no 4350G locally though. Going 4350g is putting real close to 4650g based on online price. I'll think about this.

Chia mostly make dent for nvme drives 2TB and above. Sata ssd drives is not affected much and 1TB nvme is less affected. On HDD land on the other hand anything above 5TB for 3.5 inch are gone. I grabbed 5TB seagate 2.5 inch drives instead to tide me this period, just when I thought of getting rid of SMR based drives and going all WD PMR 3.5 inch this happens. Sigh.
Gpu land here is about the same too with 1660 being around that price. Gtx 1650 raise abit but stocks are there still I think have not went down the shop yet to see only based on local online retailers.

It's just the HT5 housing my HTPC, Cerberus housing my main, NCASE with my old Haswell hardware for another family member, and whatever comes next for my mum. I don't have any extra SFF cases lying around unused. I (or my wallet) would never be okay with myself if I just randomly had like a Velka 3 sitting around lol

Man it's always so wack, it's like all the undesirable market trends are somehow all concentrated in Singapore how come the chunky laptop had to go in for RMA again?

There's supposed to be a 4-core 5300G, but I don't think AMD is releasing it for the retail market with the 5600/5700G.

That ASRock board is what I've got in my HTPC, and it pairs beautifully with the 4650G IMO. Basic, but rock solid so far. Decent featureset for the price too. I actually considered going for the A520 version, but went B550 purely for memory OC reasons (I don't think I ever actually figured out if A520 supports mem oc at all?). Otherwise the A520 looks like a steal for a basic setup.

ASRock fanboy jk it's a good no-frills board and has the right socket placement too. The B550I Aorus AX places the socket too high up.

It's kinda strange how budget ITX boards featureset haven't improved. My 5-6 year old H97N-WIFI has a 2T2R 867Mbps Intel 7260 card, while these budget AM4s all have 1T1R 433Mbps Intel 3168. 1Gbe Intel LAN (I217) on my H97 (with a second Realtek NIC as well), vs 1Gbe Realtek (8111) on the AM4s. ALC892 on the H97, contrast ALC887 on the AM4s.

The A520M-ITX/ac is obscenely expensive for me, just $10 cheaper than the B550, unfortunately. IIRC A520 is okay with memory overclocking? It's just CPU ratio OC that it's not supposed to do, but BZ just hit the BCLK instead:

That reminds me, does your B550M-ITX/ac have a software VRM temp sensor?

 

[tabascosauz]

So it appears that either -

• my old 20H2 install was terminally ill
• 21H1 really did voodoo magic on iGPUs
• both

The new install performs consistently better in Valley. Before you ask, the old and new scores were consistently repeated in 3 or more runs.

• Exact same Radeon 21.4.1 drivers
• Same graphics settings in Windows
• Same Radeon settings
• No background programs aside from HWInfo
• Same 2275MHz core @ 1.2V,
• Absolutely identical memory profile with tRTP 8

More importantly, it's almost completely eliminated the remaining FPS dips in Genshin Impact. It's a night and day difference.

Thats why you should remember to clean install every year, kids

Before / 20H2:

After / 21H1:

As a refresher, old baseline score with stock 1900MHz GPU at same mem freq but looser timings:

 

[Mussels]

Whats the big deal between them? 3FPS seems like margin of error in those results, and your min FPS is only 0.3fps different

 

[tabascosauz]

Whats the big deal between them? 3FPS seems like margin of error in those results, and your min FPS is only 0.3fps different

This isn't AIDA, margin of error isn't so big lol. Deviation from run to run Valley is about 0.1FPS, up to 0.3FPS at most, Vega doesn't randomly pull free performance out of its ass. It's just a nice and consistent benchmark to test with, the game doesn't have a built-in benchmark run. Valley also quite sensitive to core stability.

Valley's min FPS is somewhat indicative of performance uplift (see result #2 and #3 above), but doesn't tell the whole difference in performance and user experience. In-game, there's a much bigger difference to FPS lows where FPS always dips in the same spots/times.

• At 1900/1600MHz or so, most of the game is in the 20-50fps region. The lows areas are almost unplayable.
• At 1900/2100MHz, the lows are somewhere in the 20ish FPS region, even though 90% of the game is 40-50fps+ at stock.
• At 2275/2100MHz on 20H2 and 21.4.1, those lows improve to 45-50fps ish, but still quite stuttery. Otherwise game sometimes falls to 50fps or so in inclement weather.
• At 2275/2100Mhz on 21H1 and 21.4.1, lows are basically eliminated and much smoother, game is pretty much 60fps at all times.

Interesting that a new Windows update and a clean install can make that much difference.

 

[tabascosauz]

L5 (4.6L) vs HT5 (5.3L):

L5 (4.6L) vs Cerberus (18.7L):

Weeeeellllllll......"big" is a bit subjective when it's still less than half the size of a NZXT H510

------------

So I finally sorted out that L12S/L12 shenanigans with Noctua. For those not in the loop, this happened when I ordered 2 x L12S and 1 x L12 Ghost S1 Edition off Amazon:

Amazon wouldn't do anything for me aside from return/refund/reorder because it was technically sold by Noctua's Canadian distributor. Technically nothing stopped me from returning/reordering............except that one of the L12S was ALREADY a replacement for the first bent L12S and I had waited already 3 weeks for them and because Amazon seems to have intentionally slowed down their shipping (after having lightning fast free shipping 2 months ago), it would take me at least 2-3 weeks before I could get a replacement through Amazon, AND no guarantee it wouldn't be bent on attempt #3

I let Noctua know and sent them all the pics and details - they quickly arranged to send me 1 x L12S and 1 x L12 Ghost S1, all the way from Austria. Via UPS, which only took 3 business days, I think. Didn't have to be out roughly an extra $70 x 2 to gamble again on Amazon before my return was processed, and was able to use the L12 that I needed in the meantime (gently un-bent it to fit, though still had some issues obviously from being originally bent).

They also wanted to see what exactly happened to the bent coolers, so there was a return label for me to send the shittier L12S and the L12 right back to Austria. Should be arriving this weekend or Monday. The leftover 3rd cooler I'll just be returning to Amazon for my money back.

The two replacement L12 and L12S are absolutely flawless. Really makes you wonder what happened to the original coolers

And as always, Noctua customer support delivers, absolute pleasure dealing with them as usual. It's just a shame those 3 coolers were in that unfortunate state to begin with.

 

[tabascosauz]

It's time for a writeup.

I wasn't entirely happy with how vendors were continuing to treat mATX as an exclusively budget form factor. Maybe I'm still salty about the Gene or the better boards being relegated to B560 instead of Z590. Or maybe I'm just pissed off about the TUF colour scheme ruining the entire aesthetic especially since the Cerberus isn't a cheap case and the 5900X isn't a cheap CPU.

But most likely: all of these are just really weak excuses for masking the fact that I really just wanted a hardware upgrade

-----------------------------------------------

Board:

Don't suppose the Unify-X needs any introduction. Until EVGA decides to show up 2+ years late with its X570S Dark, it remains the only full sized AM4 2DIMMer. I really love the aesthetic, and just didn't want a 4DIMM board if I'm literally only ever using a dual rank 2DIMM kit.

The VRM is so unbelievably overkill - it's basically impossible for the VRM to break a sweat with the 5900X. I don't think I've ever seen the VRM over 45C. Coming from ITX and mATX, there's so many fan headers everywhere..................gone are the days of having to Y-splitter two fans together and then extend them to reach a fan header halfway across the board.

M.2 heatsinks are good. Thoughtful of MSI to place two layers of thermal pads under them - if you have a single-sided drive you can leave both there, if you have a double-sided drive you remove one layer and save it for future use.

-----------------------------------------------

RAM:

On paper, there's not a lot to gain going from 2x16GB CJR @ 3600 16-19-19 to 2x16GB B-die @ 3600 14-14-14 aside from a lot of $$$. The CJR could do 3733 16-19-19 below 1.4V, and the B-die does 3600 14-14-14 tightened at 1.42V and 3800 14-15-15 tightened at 1.5V. The B-die cost 69% (giggity) more than the CJR and sure as hell doesn't provide 69% (giggity) more perf.

Howeveeeeeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrr............ever since I got MW2019 bundled with my 2060 Super that I bought in 2019, I've been plagued by this thing:

This thing is supposed to indicate "packet loss". That's horseshit, there's nothing wrong with my internet, playing a custom bot game changes nothing. Whenever the icon shows, there's very real stuttering and frame skipping. The frame skipping strictly coincides only with certain animations - firing first bullet in a mag, initating a slide, racking the bolt on a new weapon picked up, smoke grenade for the weapon drop feature, very specific point in the inspect animation.

Things I have tried to fix the very systematic stuttering:

• Changing CPUs (3700X/5900X), boards (B450I Aorus Pro Wifi, B550I Aorus AX, B550M TUF), GPUs (1070, 2060 Super)
• Changing GPU drivers, AGESA and BIOS
• Changing CPU overclocks, changing RAM overclocks
• Changing power supplies
• Purported life hacks in the config files for the game in Documents, deleting Documents folder for game
• Reinstalling shaders
• Changing game graphics settings
• Reinstalling game
• Reinstalling Windows
• Moving to a different SSD
• Running no background tasks or monitoring
• Running at full fan speed

Whether the game decides to stutter one day is completely up to chance. If it starts, there is no way to make it go away (it persists after restarting PC and restarting game), except to bear it out until it naturally goes away in about 10 minutes of gameplay.

The B-die has finally fixed all of that. No more stuttering and frame skipping. Not. One. Bit. It doesn't matter if I'm at XMP or on one of my profiles, 3600CL14 or 3733CL14 or 3800CL14.

Crazy, yeah? Who woulda thunk it?

There are also smoothness/consistency gains in other games as well, just not quite as blatant as in MW. I guess the benefits of RAM really can't be dismissed just because they aren't represented in a nice neat bar graph, unlike what some Youtube channels seem to think.

-----------------------------------------------

Case:

I think I've said too much about the Cerberus X at this point. It's a bigger Cerberus that fits high-end motherboards. ATX is good.

-----------------------------------------------

 

[Mussels]

There is absolutely weirdness to be had with borderline stable RAM

made me think of the other thread we have with WHEA errors that all come down to WD mech drives, but unstable IF can cause pretty similar weirdness

 

[tabascosauz]

There is absolutely weirdness to be had with borderline stable RAM

made me think of the other thread we have with WHEA errors that all come down to WD mech drives, but unstable IF can cause pretty similar weirdness

Since finding out, I spent long hours racking my brain for an explanation and none of them make any sense:

• I had to go the extra mile for the 3700X, but I can assure you that IF was/is stable on both CPUs.
• Couldn't have been blatantly unstable, because it always passed MT86, HCI, TM5, Prime95 Large FFT, and LinX with ease.
• Couldn't have been borderline unstable, because it wouldn't have passed those tests, also despite passing HCI at 1.35V I always ran 1.37V or 1.38V for extra safety headroom.
• Also happens at XMP.
• BZ recently claimed that similar DJR is temp sensitive like B-die; but if so, hitting 50C during CSGO when I was still in the NCASE should have destabilized and clearly never did.
• Ruled out CPU, ruled out GPU, ruled out drivers, ruled out board, ruled out PSU, ruled out AGESA/BIOS, ruled out Windows, ruled out the game, ruled out monitor, ruled out peripherals, ruled out storage.
• I made sure to stay within a range appropriate for CJR (certainly not a performance king) for all timings, and it would have been caught by any of 5 different memtests.
• Couldn't have been degradation (some reports of 1.4V being excessive for CJR), because I haven't needed to bump the voltage in almost 2 years of use, and symptoms haven't ever changed for better or worse.

All I can think of are CAD_BUS and procODT, which are different on the B-die and Unify-X. But that also doesn't make sense, because why wouldn't the stuttering happen all the time, only once in a while and only for the first 10ish minutes?

But yeah, you're right, there was some crazy fuckery going on. I don't expect to find the answer anytime soon, if at all.