Aio vs custom cooling

[Valantar]

And yet many of them come with 5-6 years warranty? I mean if cheap, shitty stuff lasts so long then really is it actually that cheap/shitty

Lasting for a long time doesn't mean performing well. Doing both is the measure of a good fan. Even cheap sleeve bearings these days can last for 10+ years if run at reasonable speeds in a vertical orientation (sleeve bearings aren't necessarily fans of horizontal fan mounting due to the pressures on the bearing). Brushless DC motors run essentially forever if they're not stressed much and aren't gunked up with dirt and dust. So making a fan that you can stick a 5+ year warranty on is relatively easy. Making one that also delivers good airflow through a radiator, i.e. has sufficient static pressure to push through it while still moving a good amount of air, requires complex design and modelling work. And doing that, while also staying quiet? That's something only the best fans manage. That's where costs are cut, not in the possible lifespan of the fan.

Hi,
Last I looked corsair for an example used ML series fans on their newer aio's
ML series are very good fans not cheap I have many non rgb twin packs they were nicely priced too.
Most older were SP series not the greatest but still most these aio's go for quiet not high rpm and noisy


I've heard good things about that aio

Corsair AIOs are pretty expensive though, and AFAIK only their higher end models use ML fans. The ML fans are good, but loud, so they only hit 2/3 on the great fan checklist. Arctic hands down beats Corsair with the Liquid Freezer series and their P12/P14 fans - those are really close to Noctua levels of performance, and thanks to slightly thicker radiators than most and good cold plates they also perform very well. The EK AIOs are also excellent - largely thanks to far superior cold plates to most - but their Vardar fans are pretty loud.

Nr 1 not true

Nzxt kraken x63 and Cooler Master MasterLiquid ML360R RGB has a pump that is silnet you don't notice them at max rpm

My PowerCooler rx 6700 xt red devil stays at below 70c when gaming (depends on the game) and below 60c when not gaming, i don't need to cool it, it's also very silent (silent bios).

I7 10700kf at lower vcore then my i5 10600k at 4.9ghz, i can run my i7 at 5.0ghz but even with a 360mm aio im getting mid 90's or avarage in the early 90's in prime 95 small fft. Custom water cooling a silent pump + Reservoirs alone costs more than a arctic freezer II 360mm aio and it performs really good, although i feel my Nzxt kraken X63 and Cooler Master MasterLiquid ML360R RGB has a more silent pump, i can't see why you wan't to buy what's equal to 3x arctic freezer II 360mm aio's to get a decent custom water cooling for a cpu, unless your rendering every week or have an i9 or ryzen 9 with 12 or 16 cores you want to max out with a rx 6900xt or rtx 3900 xt and 3-4 high res,high hz monitors

You're arguing here against something that isn't in the OP's question, nor really relevant to this discussion. Literally everyone here has been plenty clear that custom water cooling is really expensive. If someone is willing to pay for the benefits (and hassle) it brings, that's on them. But that's entirely irrelevant to how and why custom water cools better than (most) AIOs. I mean, you say so yourself.

Me, I went custom water for a) silence, and b) size. Once I get my loop bled, I'll have a full loop in a >15l case with a 280mm rad, two fans in the whole system, cooling a 5800X and Fury X (soon to be replaced by a 6800XT or 6900XT). An AIO couldn't do that. I could fit a large GPU in my case and use an AIO instead - and if I was starting from scratch today I likely would - but that's a relative rarity among SFF cases, and I already had the custom loop gear, so that point is moot. I could get a similarly small setup with a modular AIO like those from Alphacool, but ... that's just a custom loop in disguise.

I did several water builds earlier this year ranging from dirt cheap to expensive.

First, let it be known that you can indeed build a good full custom loop for very little as long as you don't mind waiting a little bit for overseas parts from places like ebay, aliexpress, banggood, ect.

Example: my folding rig:

Vinyl Hose (I swear it's identical the EK stuff) from HW store: $8.
Bykski CPU block, ebay: $20
240mm aluminum radiators, ebay: $17
AE-YOLOWIN-WP, Aliexpress: $15
Generic GPU block, ebay: $15
Multipack fittings, ebay: $15
Barrow Reservoir, ppcs: $15
1 gallon distilled water, grocery store: $2

Total: $107, and you could shave off even more money if you glue on the cheapest of all water blocks from banggood.com.

Second, it's possible to take old AIOs and mod the hell out of them because they actually use plastic barbs. I was very happy to take some 3/8" vinyl hose and a mason jar and improve an old H50 (copper rad) that still had a working pump. Now it has a reservoir and clear tubing for less than $10.

In my main rig I spent much more on more extravagant stuff like a 1080mm copper rad, dual D5s, full cover blocks, ect, easily over $500.

It's very true that you can get stuff very cheap if you go those routes, though it has a few downsides:
- I'd expect that pump to fail quite soon.
- Generic GPU blocks typically cool only the GPU itself, leaving VRAM and VRMs passively cooled, which can be a problem.
- You've not got any corrosion inhibitor or growth inhibitors listed, so (especially with an alu rad) it seems likely that you'd need significant maintenance on that loop rather soon.
If that's something you're willing to live with though, that's a great solution. And spending more time to save money is after all a huge part of DIY to begin with, so it makes perfect sense. One just has to find the right balance.

 

[xtreemchaos]

heres mine what ive put together on a shoestring.
cpublock new £60.
gpublock and backplate 2/h £60 off ebay.
d5 £50 s/h off ebay.
rad hand me down off customer.
fittings all from china £30 or less for the lot thay are very well made.
pipe 1 new 50cm at £5 off ebay and made up the rest by using bits left over from customers builds
res i brought two from china and made a big one out the 2 £30.
dont laugh i get a good feeling from doing things on the cheap, ok laugh kindly .

 

[Mussels]

daaaamn, getting an EK block that cheap is awesome

 

[R0H1T]

That's something only the best fans manage. That's where costs are cut, not in the possible lifespan of the fan.

I meant to quote the entire post, anyway the point is you really think AIO's are all that bad ~ even the best ones from the likes of Corsair, Arctic, NZXT? And yeah some of them perform really good at their respective prices! Lasting 5 years, or more, is nothing to be scoffed at.

 

[xtreemchaos]

agreed the guy had sold his 1080 and wanted rid so did a buy it now.

daaaamn, getting an EK block that cheap is awesome

ps it come with a EK service kit as well i havnt used the kit yet cos the orings ect are still in good order.

 

[gasolin]

#26

Arctic P12 and P14

I think it's to expensive for my to go custom water cooling, i know it can perform better, but how and why would you spend 3x (or more) the price of a good artic freezer II 360mm aio (if you have a gpu that cools above avarage), normally it's not close to being enought to get custom water cooling for a cpu + gpu for that price of 300 euros (price of 3x arctic 360mm aio's)

 

[ThrashZone]

Oh i forgot, and because AIOs look like this eventually and you cant tell without destroying them

My photo, from a thermaltake 120mm AIO on a 'dead' system i refurbished


Not the socket directly, i mean the mobo would move where the socket is and the AIO would no longer reach, or it'd hit VRM heatsinks, RAM and so on.

Hi,
That's mainly why 5 year warranty is the best item for aio's out of all water cooling options
This type of stuff happens in custom loops as well but warranties are way more complicated.

Otherwise stick with a nice realiable air cooler ;-)

 

[freeagent]

I've been running WCG for the last few days.. no need for an AIO.. I could see the want for a loop, but AIO? Nah..

 

[plastiscɧ]

Hey guys! Your ROG victim aka me wants to add his mustard as well.

My overpriced AIO cooling solution is named ROG Ryujin 240 and cost about 200€ with fans from Noctua, bringing 2000r/pm. I customized mine with Noctua Industrial fans (2*3000r/pm for ~45€ each) just for security cus i have made the xp needing it sometimes over 2000r/pm i live in warm times here, near to the hell.

the fans can be VERY loud but only from 1500-3000r/pm - thats not that often the case.
the pump is non existent for my ears. never was!

it has got several sensors and a display to show some useful stats as well.
My CPU runs @ 53-53-53-53-52-51-50-49 and it's max temp is listed with 100°C via intel. My cooling never let this happen. Max @83°C no matter whats happening.

 

[Valantar]

I meant to quote the entire post, anyway the point is you really think AIO's are all that bad ~ even the best ones from the likes of Corsair, Arctic, NZXT? And yeah some of them perform really good at their respective prices! Lasting 5 years, or more, is nothing to be scoffed at.

I mean, come on. Seriously? I think I know why you didn't quote the whole post: because you can't possibly have read the whole post. This is literally the first sentence of my post:

To the extent that it does (that depends on the water loop as well as the AIO - some current AIOs are excellent (Arctic, EK in particular)), there are some reasons:

So please, read before you write. That makes things easier on all of us.

And no, Corsair and NZXT don't make particularly good AIOs. They use off-the-shelf Asetek designs, so they are decidedly middle-of-the-road. They used to be among the best Asetek-made ones, but these days we have other solutions, and Arctic and EK AIOs are in a class of their own.

#26

Arctic P12 and P14

I think it's to expensive for my to go custom water cooling, i know it can perform better, but how and why would you spend 3x (or more) the price of a good artic freezer II 360mm aio (if you have a gpu that cools above avarage), normally it's not close to being enought to get custom water cooling for a cpu + gpu for that price of 300 euros (price of 3x arctic 360mm aio's)

Am I right in guessing that "#26" is referencing my post #26 above? (Please use the quote/reply function though. Please.) I mean ... have people here just stopped reading today? I assume your vague statement of "Arctic P12 and P14" on a line of its own is supposed to alert me of these fans' existence. But ... the post you're referring to literally contains this:

Arctic hands down beats Corsair with the Liquid Freezer series and their P12/P14 fans - those are really close to Noctua levels of performance, and thanks to slightly thicker radiators than most and good cold plates they also perform very well.

So ... what are you trying to say? As I said in my very first post in this thread, there are some great AIOs out there today. Not many, but especially two manufacturers make really good ones, which perform on par with a good custom loop. But those are clearly an exception, and most AIOs are noticeably outperformed by custom loops. That obviously doesn't make the average AIO bad by any means, it's just not quite as good. Which is what this thread is supposed to be about - how and why custom water loops outperform AIOs. Not which is the best value.

You're entirely within your rights to think custom loops are too expensive - I do too, frankly, though I'm already invested so the future price for me is far less - but that has no bearing on why and how custom loops perform better, which was the OP's question. I entirely agree that the value proposition of custom water loops is terrible. It's an ultra-premium segment, where you easily pay 2-3-4x the price for a few % better performance and some premium features. But they still generally also perform better than AIOs.

 

[freeagent]

Hey full loop guys, how often do you top up your loop? Every 6 months or so? Would you run your loop for 5 years without touching it?

 

[ThrashZone]

Hey full loop guys, how often do you top up your loop? Every 6 months or so? Would you run your loop for 5 years without touching it?

Hi,
I switched to distilled water and biocide and inhibitor+ and it's not a completely sealed loop so I get evaporation so I top off every couple weeks
Crap ek d5 reservoirs leak at base if completely sealed

But with hardware upgrades it never make it 6 months without messing with them
I use quick disconnect to help manage upgrades separating cpu and gpu from the loop so draining and filling in minimized.

 

[Valantar]

Hey full loop guys, how often do you top up your loop? Every 6 months or so? Would you run your loop for 5 years without touching it?

I've run a custom loop since 2017, and at the most it sat for ~2 years without being touched (from I got my H200i till I moved last year). It's worth mentioning that some screws on my GPU block were loose in that time, and while it didn't leak (even passed pressure testing after a rebuild) I had some very slow evaporation leading to the levels in the reservoir sinking perhaps 2cm over those two years. I never topped it up after the initial fill/bleed. I'm using EK's "ZMT" supposedly zero-maintenance, zero permeation neoprene tubing though. Since then the loop has been rebuilt, I've removed the pump/res combo in favor of a CPU block with a DDC mount, added QDCs, and I'm currently moving the loop over to my new Meshlicious, so things are changing. I've installed a little EK flow indicator as a "reservoir" (read: bubble catcher) in the loop now, but I don't envision needing to top it up for quite a while once I get it bled.

I've used EK Cryofuel and ... I think it was an Aquatuning fluid? Can't quite remember.

 

[freeagent]

Awesome!

Thanks fellas

 

[ThrashZone]

I've run a custom loop since 2017, and at the most it sat for ~2 years without being touched (from I got my H200i till I moved last year). It's worth mentioning that some screws on my GPU block were loose in that time, and while it didn't leak (even passed pressure testing after a rebuild) I had some very slow evaporation leading to the levels in the reservoir sinking perhaps 2cm over those two years. I never topped it up after the initial fill/bleed. I'm using EK's "ZMT" supposedly zero-maintenance, zero permeation neoprene tubing though. Since then the loop has been rebuilt, I've removed the pump/res combo in favor of a CPU block with a DDC mount, added QDCs, and I'm currently moving the loop over to my new Meshlicious, so things are changing. I've installed a little EK flow indicator as a "reservoir" (read: bubble catcher) in the loop now, but I don't envision needing to top it up for quite a while once I get it bled.

I've used EK Cryofuel and ... I think it was an Aquatuning fluid? Can't quite remember.

Hi,
Yeah I sheded some tears over acid green so I pass on anything that starts with CRY in it's name lol

 

[plastiscɧ]

Hi,
I switched to distilled water and biocide and inhibitor+ and it's not a completely sealed loop so I get evaporation so I top off every couple weeks
Crap ek d5 reservoirs leak at base if completely sealed

But with hardware upgrades it never make it 6 months without messing with them
I use quick disconnect to help manage upgrades separating cpu and gpu from the loop so draining and filling in minimized.

to be honest; destilled water is mandatory in any "machines" even in a steamed iron u should use it not in a car only to clean your windows.

 

[freeagent]

We had a cheap plastic kettle for about 5-7 years. We used it often.. and did very little maintenance. The top edge where the lid sits, the element, is all calcified.. looks a bit gross. Luckily I received a new one for Fathers day

I honestly don't think even tap water is good to drink. If it did that to my kettle, imagine what your pineal gland looks like

 

[jaggerwild]

Custom cooling is Real cooling, AIO'S are not. Aios are a money grab made as cheap as possible.

 

[freeagent]

They have their place. When I was rocking the H100 when they were new, I slapped 120x38s on it immediately and it outperformed my D14.. by a fair amount.. until permeation kicked in.

 

[ThrashZone]

to be honest; destilled water is mandatory in any "machines" even in a steamed iron u should use it not in a car only to clean your windows.

Hi,
Yes it's the easiest fluid to use just need biocide and inhibitor additives so not growth and parts material clashed occur
Most premixes are really a waste I've tried quite a few all have negatives and costs plus shipping aren't cheap either.

They have their place. When I was rocking the H100 when they were new, I slapped 120x38s on it immediately and it outperformed my D14.. by a fair amount.. until permeation kicked in.

Best thing about aio's is looks
Large piece of aluminum one can't even see the build
Worst thing can be the crapware the manages it lol

 

[plastiscɧ]

I honestly don't think even tap water is good to drink

I depends where u live and your house related physical interior should not be 100s of ages old. (old tubes in the house, beware of lead).

but i drink tap water only. this the most controlled viand we have here. it's stronger controlled than mineralwater ever was.


but it is not suitable for mechanics and machines interior

 

[gasolin]

I mean, come on. Seriously? I think I know why you didn't quote the whole post: because you can't possibly have read the whole post. This is literally the first sentence of my post:

So please, read before you write. That makes things easier on all of us.

And no, Corsair and NZXT don't make particularly good AIOs. They use off-the-shelf Asetek designs, so they are decidedly middle-of-the-road. They used to be among the best Asetek-made ones, but these days we have other solutions, and Arctic and EK AIOs are in a class of their own.

Am I right in guessing that "#26" is referencing my post #26 above? (Please use the quote/reply function though. Please.) I mean ... have people here just stopped reading today? I assume your vague statement of "Arctic P12 and P14" on a line of its own is supposed to alert me of these fans' existence. But ... the post you're referring to literally contains this:

So ... what are you trying to say? As I said in my very first post in this thread, there are some great AIOs out there today. Not many, but especially two manufacturers make really good ones, which perform on par with a good custom loop. But those are clearly an exception, and most AIOs are noticeably outperformed by custom loops. That obviously doesn't make the average AIO bad by any means, it's just not quite as good. Which is what this thread is supposed to be about - how and why custom water loops outperform AIOs. Not which is the best value.

You're entirely within your rights to think custom loops are too expensive - I do too, frankly, though I'm already invested so the future price for me is far less - but that has no bearing on why and how custom loops perform better, which was the OP's question. I entirely agree that the value proposition of custom water loops is terrible. It's an ultra-premium segment, where you easily pay 2-3-4x the price for a few % better performance and some premium features. But they still generally also perform better than AIOs.

So which manufacturers makes good aio's ?

What is the difference between a good aio and custom water cooling in temps, i don't often see aio's (no matter brand) compared to a good custom water cooling

 

[plastiscɧ]

So which manufacturers makes good aio's ?

What is the difference between a good aio and custom water cooling in temps, i don't often see aio's (no matter brand) compared to a good custom water cooling

ASUS rog ryujin 240 is mine. and i am just happy about not having that "wet contructionsite" inside my case.
3 vents. 2 main and one for the CPU package

it's def. called a "premium" one. and i agree

the video is in portugese language but who cares. u can get a quite good overview

 

[freeagent]

Best thing about aio's is looks
Large piece of aluminum one can't even see the build
Worst thing can be the crapware the manages it lo

I totally agree. In those days I was on 1366 with a hexacore that loved vcore and she was a runner..

I got a good 8-9 months of heavy testing out of it, and it was just after the 10th or 12th month I noticed a drop in capacity.

I rode that downward spiral right to the end.. until it couldn't even cool my brothers 7700K.

I probably wouldn't buy another AIO, though lately I really did consider it more than a few times because 12 cores is not easy to cool when you want to OC..

 

[damric]

It's very true that you can get stuff very cheap if you go those routes, though it has a few downsides:
- I'd expect that pump to fail quite soon.
- Generic GPU blocks typically cool only the GPU itself, leaving VRAM and VRMs passively cooled, which can be a problem.
- You've not got any corrosion inhibitor or growth inhibitors listed, so (especially with an alu rad) it seems likely that you'd need significant maintenance on that loop rather soon.
If that's something you're willing to live with though, that's a great solution. And spending more time to save money is after all a huge part of DIY to begin with, so it makes perfect sense. One just has to find the right balance.

- Pump's been running 24/7 for months, but I do have a backup because I bought 2 since I was skeptical. Honestly I'm more worried about my expensive dual D5s failing in my main rig, but eventually all things do fail.
- Old mobo/RAM sinks FTW
- I experimented much on additives after researching what chemicals are used in these AIOs, and also industrial and automotive cooling, as well as what I use for my outdoor fountain pumps. I now use a settled of 99.9% silver and a small amount of titanium dioxide for my folding rig. You can see the white residue from the first time I was a bit overzealous with the TiO2. I finally figured out to do a pre-mix gallon with a tiny amount since a little drop goes a long way, and a little more will give the coolant a milky pastel look. Adding a few drops of food coloring can give it a color if desired, but also propylene glycol is the main ingredient of food coloring. Having any mixed metals can lead to galvanic corrosion, but that can take years. I can count many metals in the loop including copper, nickel, aluminum, titanium, cobalt, and silver. On the plus side, metal ions in the distilled water are natural biocides. I got a 1/2lb bag of the TiO2 from bulkapothecary.com for $7.

My main rig is just pure distilled and two silver kills. No algae yet, and I'm in a very hot and humid climate where algae wants to grow everywhere including the side of your house if you don't treat it.

Also I built that bench-case out of $15 of aluminum angle and my daughter spray painted it neon pink
The acrylic motherboard tray I found on amazon also for cheap, like $15.
Also found the g1/4 temperature LCD on ebay for $5, and cheap plastic spinner flow sensor for $10.