Windows 11 General Discussion

[Space Lynx]

its a bit annoying that my gtx 1070 laptop has a tpm 2.0 module... but M$ still won't support it cause its 7th gen Intel... really hope they change that... because I do like to play MMO's, and I would like a separate Windows drive for them without messing with Wine

 

[ZenZimZaliben]

Adoption of Win 11 is going to be bad. There is nearly no new features that makes me want to upgrade and it is effectively Windows 10+.

 

[Bill_Bright]

and yes, I can provide plenty of examples.

Then show us! Show us how you speak for all security analysts.

All I know is people who actually work on the "hardware security"

Folks can see through the link in my sig that I'm no stranger to hardware or security. So show us where hardware security people are terrified.

Because thus far, the one example you did provide that you pretended "mocked hardware security" clearly didn't. I guess you hoped no one would actually read it. But it, in fact proves, on several fronts, the exact opposite of your own claims.

Come on R-T-B! No one, including Microsoft, and especially not me, said hardware security is the panacea for all security woes. But evidence shows (including your own) that software alone clearly is not enough. So hardware security is yet another layer that hopefully, will thwart most bad guys and slow down most others - at least for awhile.

And again, I point out that TPM and UEFI are NOT Microsoft creations driven primarily by Microsoft. Microsoft supports them because they know folks like you and Lex are going to blame MS for something, no matter what. So it is better to be blamed for being overzealous about security than for being lax.

it's them being forced.

Microsoft is not forcing you to do anything. You don't have to upgrade to W11. And you have other options besides Windows. You can go Apple, Chromebook or Linux.

There is a difference between criticizing microsoft for yet another boneheaded set of moves and bashing Windows

Come on. That's a distinction without a difference. Microsoft is criticized because they, according to you, coded W11 to force this on us. And Windows 11 is criticized because it forces this on us. Same difference.

Also there already are plenty of workarounds. Just 2 examples include Install Windows 11 without TPM 2.0 and Secure Boot and How to Bypass Windows 11 Secure Boot & TMP 2.0 [Fixed].

Let's also not forget that W11 has not gone final yet. So you are claiming tasks with W11 will be difficult or even impossible when you don't know that. You can Dual Boot Windows 11 with Windows 10. And 3rd party encryption software designed for W11 is not even out yet and you are already bashing W11 for making it difficult or impossible to use. There is no reason to believe third party full disk encryption developers will not be able to develop user-friendly W11 versions of their software too.

 

[R-T-B]

Show us how you speak for all security analysts.

I don't.

So show us.

Visit any group that works on exploiting these systems. win-raid.com does firmware level modding. Ask them what they think.

Ask google, who commisioned me_cleaner (as well as it's author).

Ask pretty much anyone whos worked on it, ever.

I can't link a person's POV, especially when most of these people don't have a press front. But you can ask them yourself.

Come on R-T-B! No one, including Microsoft, and especially not me, said hardware security is the panacea for all security woes. But evidence shows (including your own) that software alone clearly is not enough. So hardware security is yet another layer that hopefully, will thwart most bad guys and slow down most others - at least for awhile

I believe the opposite. I think hardware security is another layer that only exists to serve the user until hijacked, at which point standard antivirus tech will cease to function, and the users only course of remiatation will be to replace the hardware.

To be honest, it's the stuff malware writers dreams are made of. But I actually have things to do, no time for this. Think what you want.

I will admit I made a mistake linking that article though. I had indeed not read it, but assumed by the title it was a similar one I had read over. My bad.

And I'm not trying to sound dismissive either, I am just very busy here. Perhaps I could've chose my initial words better but my opinion is the same.

 

[lexluthermiester]

They are more full of holes than swiss cheese, and yes, I can provide plenty of examples.

Yeah, there is this.

But by all means. Build your castle in that swamp, because the industry wanted you to.

Nice. Well said.

 

[95Viper]

Stop the bickering/arguing... make your points and move on.
Agree to dis-agree.

Thank You

EDIT: not directed at just one person...

 

[R-T-B]

Stop the bickering/arguing

That's really not the tone I was trying to have.

Sorry. Long day. I probably is grumpy...

 

[lexluthermiester]

Adoption of Win 11 is going to be bad. There is nearly no new features that makes me want to upgrade and it is effectively Windows 10+.

We'll see. They're not done with it yet. So far there have been enough changes to make it feel like something new. For example the Settings app alone is almost a whole new experience and it's growing on me. But that's just me..

 

[Shou Miko]

Just because TPM is something that is out there doesn't mean Microsoft have to make it a requirement.

It's a pain for consumers to deal with like Apple' security chip and I do agree that security is needed but I don't trust TPM or Windows bitlocker because when things go wrong you loose your stuff that's not security or Microsoft want to know what you run on your pc it's called personal computer for a reason not MC for Microsoft's Computer

 

[Zyll Goliat]

Well...I been using Win 11 for more than a 2 weeks on my old x79 platform and so far seems like everything working just fine actually system performs a bit better overall but thats not that significant 1%-2% in certain benchmarks and mostly on par on other tests....There is a plenty ways to bypass TPM so who really wants to install win11 can find the way to do that...

 

[Hugis]

I managed to get a QX9650 with a Asus Striker II Extreme ,Samsung SSD, 2*4Gb ddr3 and a AMD 4870(beta drivers) running perfectly in my man cave at work.
There are so many ways to bypass secure boot and TPM checks , if any one wants the iso of the the one im using (21996_TPMLESS_INSTALL.iso) shoot me a pm and ill chuck it in the cloud.
So far i quite like it, seems very very similar in performance to Win10 if im honest(from what ive read its win10x with some eye candy)
Sure its a beta, but it hasnt crashed or blue/black screened me yet, yeah there have been the odd glitchs (didnt like the non beta AMD drivers)
If microsoft keep the tpm shizzle in release then a lot of people wont be moving to it i guess. I'm in Dev channel and have the update to try it but cant pass the tpm query on my main PC(im happy i cant lol)

 

[lexluthermiester]

(21996_TPMLESS_INSTALL.iso)

That's the leaked dev build. We're currently on 22000.51, but that's going to change next week.

I managed to get a QX9650 with a Asus Striker II Extreme ,Samsung SSD, 2*4Gb ddr3 and a AMD 4870(beta drivers) running perfectly in my man cave at work.

How's it run on that setup? I got it running on a Sony laptop with a Core2Duo T7200(dual core 2ghz) and 4GB of RAM. It runs ok, not perfectly smooth but if I had to use it, it would be ok.

 

[Hugis]

That's the leaked dev build. We're currently on 22000.51, but that's going to change next week.

How's it run on that setup? I got it running on a Sony laptop with a Core2Duo T7200(dual core 2ghz) and 4GB of RAM. It runs ok, not perfectly smooth but if I had to use it, it would be ok.

Yeah the dev build is a bit behind now, but the QX9650 feels good for its age (only 4 cores) its @ 3.4Ghz (limited by cooling atm) Yeah its not super super quick but if you put me at it for a day to do some office work , browsing, etc i could use it as a daily driver no probs, so yeah runs like a champ really for a 14 year old CPU! Later today ill bench it a bit!!

 

[Bill_Bright]

It's a pain for consumers to deal with like Apple' security chip and I do agree that security is needed but I don't trust TPM or Windows bitlocker because when things go wrong you loose your stuff that's not security or Microsoft want to know what you run on your pc it's called personal computer for a reason not MC for Microsoft's Computer

I don't think it fair to be critical of TPM 2.0 on a modern system with W11 based on experiences with Apple's security chip.

TPM has been around for a dozen years and 2.0 for 2 years. It is not a rookie product. I think it safe to assume BitLocker has seen some refinements in W11 too. And while I certainly am not dismissing or downplaying the need for W11 to ensure we don't 'lose our stuff', lost or corrupt data is always a possibility, and likely always will be. Hence the need for regular backups.

 

[Shrek]

" I think what Windows 11 is really all about is security."

The real reason for Windows 11 (computerworld.com)

 

[Splinterdog]

That's the leaked dev build. We're currently on 22000.51, but that's going to change next week.

How's it run on that setup? I got it running on a Sony laptop with a Core2Duo T7200(dual core 2ghz) and 4GB of RAM. It runs ok, not perfectly smooth but if I had to use it, it would be ok.

TPM and Secure Boot aside, how did you mange to get it running on a Core2Duo?
Frankly, what amazes me is the CPU compatibility, or lack of, to be more accurate. I mean, first gen Ryzens will NOT run Win 11.
That decision alone is stark raving mad.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

Is it still quite easy to get virtual machine support added to win 10 pro, I'm thinking I want to try 11 virtually first.

 

[Shrek]

how did you mange to get it running on a Core2Duo?

How to INSTALL Windows 11 Error FREE on ANY PC! (fast and easy) - YouTube

 

[ShiBDiB]

Still trying to get the release build to install... enabled fTPM in BIOS and it shows enabled in windows.. Still get the system requirements not met error.

I can't imagine they don't loosen the requirements, they're gonna alienate 95% of their userbase.

 

[theFOoL]

For me I gave the preview build a look an basically no changes besides a few UI overhaul etc. Stay with 10 or as I am... WiN7

 

[lexluthermiester]

how did you mange to get it running on a Core2Duo?

It installed fine. No issues. In fact the installation took less time than a Windows 7 install would have.

I mean, first gen Ryzens will NOT run Win 11.

Um, yes they will. Along with Socket 1366 CPU's, Socket 2011 V1&2 and AM3. I've been busy. Again, microsoft's stated limitations are totally artificial. As in complete rubbish and bollocks.

That decision alone is stark raving mad.

Totally agree. Installer customizers that remove these dumbass limitations will be a thing.

 

[Shrek]

And here was me thinking the word bollocks was just used in England.

 

[lexluthermiester]

And here was me thinking the word bollocks was just used in England.

I am part British and lived there for a portion of my life..

 

[Shou Miko]

I don't think it fair to be critical of TPM 2.0 on a modern system with W11 based on experiences with Apple's security chip.

TPM has been around for a dozen years and 2.0 for 2 years. It is not a rookie product. I think it safe to assume BitLocker has seen some refinements in W11 too. And while I certainly am not dismissing or downplaying the need for W11 to ensure we don't 'lose our stuff', lost or corrupt data is always a possibility, and likely always will be. Hence the need for regular backups.

Just because something might be useful some where else doesn't mean the mr and mrs needs it in their life to make it more complicated.

I just tried Windows 11 on my gaming rig and first update and reboot I got a black screen with the mouse cursor just loading for 30mins so I booted up on my backup and cloned my Windows 10 back so up and running again.

It's a shame it didn't went better now it's time for bed have to get up in like 6hours to get ready for work and forget it's my bday

 

[theFOoL]

I am in the process of creating a WIN10GO Edition on a USB then I'll transfer it to a SSD I have with @Active Disk via USB ISO I have. Going to see if the WINpass11 will work which assume it will

Stay tuned...