Intel's Pat Gelsinger Exclaims "Intel is Back" AMD is "Over"

[Vayra86]

What tripe.

Show me CPUs that don't shut down 500W PSUs in an otherwise modest system and I'll believe this guy.

Otherwise, forget it.

What a disappointment.

How can you be disappointed when the product isn't there yet? I mean, so far Intel's only got a few bench results to speak for the last five years of CPU development. In the real world they're still surpassed royally especially on enterprise.

All I see here is hot air, not unlike what came out of that water chilled turbo CPU they used one day. We won't forget And Pat's hot air smells like old people.

 

[AusWolf]

Specifically: rich kid swinging their pocketbook around (presenting Epic as if it's meaningfully richer than Valve is just silly - they're both mega-rich corporations); the CEO ego part (yes, Newell is far less visible and loud, but he wholly embraces the way the gaming community deifies him - different personality types, similar levels of ego); the exclusivity argument isn't a direct mirroring, but Steam's de facto monopoly and the inherent threat of losing money if you don't put your game on Steam makes this more than a match for any exclusivity payments Epic has made.

What threat?

Monopoly or not, I like keeping my games in the same space. Apart from that, paying 20 quid on Steam, or anywhere else doesn't make a difference to me.

I also haven't seen any indication of Epic being opposed to PC gaming (or flip-flopping) at least since they opened the EGS. Now, two and a half years isn't a lot to go off of, but that argument goes both ways.

They're opposed to PC gaming via any different storefront than their own. They're not even bothered to innovate, or lower prices at least. They just force developers into exclusivity deals, which is outright disgusting.

I frankly have no idea what software integrates with Steam - in my experience Valve wants their own solutions or none at all. No doubt there is all kinds of stuff I don't know of though. The only integration with EGS that I've come across is GOG Galaxy (which Steam notably lacks official integration with), which works very well.

As far as I've seen, GOG Galaxy has the best integration with anything, so a big kudos to them for that.

I mean, you can argue that EGS lacks features just as you can argue that Steam's UI (and especially the overlay) are hopelessly dated and impractical. Both are true, and neither is a deal-breaker to me. They're just different. And more options = more betterer.

I like Steam especially because of its "dated" UI. Dated here means more logical, as is the case with most websites too. UI designers tend to focus on looks and lose out big time on functionality nowadays.

Anyhow, no need to turn this thread into another EGS vs Steam discussion, so I'm done. Sorry for the off.

 

[Vayra86]

This is also the same company that provided chips to Apple for years, but now that that is over they are now actively campaigning against them by promoting touchscreens and such.

The leaks of Adler Lake have me skeptical. The little cores are only found on expensive SKUs, suggesting that is a core-war gimmick, Windows 11 is likely going to be needed to get the best results, and more than anything, I would like to see some reviews that show that runaway power consumption is a thing of the past. Intel has a lot to prove, IMO. When they were dominant, they didn’t talk about “the competition,” so the fact that they are having some hard feelings suggests this will be an RX580 moment—designs pushed to the limit to get some performance credibility back. I guess we’ll find out.

Writing on the wall: We saw the exact same 650 points ST performance on the Alder Lake P cores running at 4 Ghz - the same as Ryzen.

At 5 Ghz, they are unlocked and have a 50% higher power budget.

/Alder Lake thread. They can match Ryzen IPC now at 4Ghz, which isn't bad. But its not going to change the world for MSDT, in fact, its a complete standstill because you don't want to push ADL higher because you're back in retarded TDP land again sooner rather than later. But... P cores cap out at 8. So yes the E cores are marketing cores, for MSDT. For mobile, which is their core consumer market, they may extract a lead on the Zen stack... but the Ryzen G's come with a solid IGP on top.

Net result nothing really changes, but there is fair playing ground now on price and performance. Until AMD releases something again. All is well. But in some minds apparently Intel or AMD can only crush everything or die completely... when in fact they exist for many years doing better or worse. Alder Lake is pretty meaningless to me, as a consumer. I'm fine with any CPU from the last 3-5 generations really. There are no low hanging fruits left in CPU land, not even for gaming.

 

[londiste]

/Alder Lake thread. They can match Ryzen IPC now at 4Ghz, which isn't bad.

The suspicion is that they can match Zen3 single-core performance at 4GHz which would imply it has higher IPC since Zen3 single-core tests run at 4.4-4.8GHz or so. We will have to wait and see and that Alder Lake's 4GHz might be misread by software for now.

 

[Vayra86]

The suspicion is that they can match Zen3 single-core performance at 4GHz which would imply it has higher IPC since Zen3 single-core tests run at 4.4-4.8GHz or so. We will have to wait and see and that Alder Lake's 4GHz might be misread by software for now.

10% IPC at intel versus core count at AMD sounds a lot like been there seen that since forever...

 

[zlobby]

Intel right now:

 

[Valantar]

10% IPC at intel versus core count at AMD sounds a lot like been there seen that since forever...

Then there's the upcoming 3D cache Zen3(+?) chips, and then there's Zen4. Of course these aren't arriving soon (just confirmed 3D cache CPUs for Q1 '22, I'd guess that makes Zen 4 EOY-ish), but ... meh. It's going to be close either way. It might very well be that Intel takes back the IPC and/or absolute performance crown, but they won't be resting easy. And that's fantastic!

 

[medi01]

a platform that is missing tons of features

Yeah, a ton of "checklist of shit 90%+ of users never use" stuff. Convincing.

has terrible software integration,

As in "I've heard these words, but am not sure what they mean".

a CEO with an ego

Ah. Ok. Now it seems almost totally, but not completely, not rational.

 

[londiste]

Then there's the upcoming 3D cache Zen3(+?) chips, and then there's Zen4. Of course these aren't arriving soon (just confirmed 3D cache CPUs for Q1 '22, I'd guess that makes Zen 4 EOY-ish), but ... meh. It's going to be close either way. It might very well be that Intel takes back the IPC and/or absolute performance crown, but they won't be resting easy. And that's fantastic!

Competition is fantastic

Alder Lake should be going up against Zen3+3D Cache.
AMD now basically confirmed previous leaked roadmaps where the other interesting and so far unconfirmed part is Zen4 and AM5 at Q4 2022.
Intel leaked roadmaps put Raptor Lake within a quarter of that so this should get interesting.

 

[HD64G]

Now that I know windows 11's broken CPU scheduler for Ryzen CPUs will be broken at least until AL launch, I fully understand his confidense on "AMD is over"... Let's see who will be the reviewer to test objectively. Most will know who is a shill after that launch.

 

[zlobby]

Now that I know windows 11's broken CPU scheduler for Ryzen CPUs will be broken at least until AL launch, I fully understand his confidense on "AMD is over"... Let's see who will be the reviewer to test objectively. Most will know who is a shill after that launch.

Not we don't already know who is a hardcore shill 'reviewer' and who isn't. Well, there is always room for new discoveries, though.

I can imagine how pissed @W1zzard and his crew must be, waiting for some stable build, only so that they can redo all their tests in the lasy minute.

 

[W1zzard]

I can imagine how pissed @W1zzard and his crew must be, waiting for some stable build, only so that they can redo all their tests in the lasy minute.

I'm already setting up test systems, but yeah, the situation isn't ideal.

 

[HD64G]

I'm already setting up test systems, but yeah, the situation isn't ideal.

In what platform will you test AMD CPUs for this review may I ask? I am not you ofc but I would just use the latest results you already have from previous reviews. Why bother and lose time battling with a broken for the AMD CPUs OS? AL on the other hand will need Win11 to perform optimally.

 

[W1zzard]

In what platform will you test AMD CPUs for this review may I ask? I am not you ofc but I would just use the latest results you already have from previous reviews. Why bother and lose time battling with a broken for the AMD CPUs OS? AL on the other hand will need Win11 to perform optimally.

For a fair comparison I must test on the same OS as Alder Lake? And obviously testing Alder Lake on Windows 10 makes no sense? Even though these could be interesting separate investigations

 

[zlobby]

Even though these could be interesting separate investigations

The beauty of indepenent journalism! Get busy, Busy Bee!

Competition is fantastic

Yep! Now every company will try hard to make things work in their favor, ultimately benefiting all users. If we exclude any potential bias M$ may have towards a certain company, that is.

 

[HD64G]

For a fair comparison I must test on the same OS as Alder Lake? And obviously testing Alder Lake on Windows 10 makes no sense? Even though these could be interesting separate investigations

Since win10 and win11 are underneath mostly the same OS in most ways than not, and since the fairness means to not allow any bottleneck for each platform, my view on this case is to test with the best OS for each one. As for GPUs the best is to test the one that works better with DX11 with this and the one better with DX12 with that, since there is a free of cost and easy option.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

For a fair comparison I must test on the same OS as Alder Lake? And obviously testing Alder Lake on Windows 10 makes no sense? Even though these could be interesting separate investigations

I'm all for interesting investigation.

You are implying no one would use win 10 on Aderlake, for gaming that makes sense, but actually for office, work based tests the opposite is true since most companies will take years to adopt windows 11, just as they took years moving off every other OS, shit test Xp too, no I jest

And regardless Intel , Microsoft and AMD have certainly created the perfect, benching shitfest for some poor soul, I wouldn't want to be that writer, he or she can't win here.

 

[Bubster]

No you're NOT The Terminator, You're NOT BACK yet...

 

[W1zzard]

You are implying no one would use win 10 on Aderlake, for gaming that makes sense, but actually for office, work based tests the opposite is true since most companies will take years to adopt windows 11,

They will use Windows 10 on their old hardware for eternity, but not on new Alder Lake systems. It'll sure be an interesting article running ADL on W10, but since W10 doesn't know big.LITTLE it will either schedule loads on the slow atom cores, or not schedule anything on them at all and only use the big cores.

 

[kane nas]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1448310872812650510

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

They will use Windows 10 on their old hardware for eternity, but not on new Alder Lake systems. It'll sure be an interesting article running ADL on W10, but since W10 doesn't know big.LITTLE it will either schedule loads on the slow atom cores, or not schedule anything on them at all and only use the big cores.

Maybe/ Probably, it is (W10)likely to get updated eventually, they buckle easily.

 

[W1zzard]

Maybe/ Probably, it is (W10)likely to get updated eventually, they buckle easily.

I doubt it. Every new PC will be sold with Windows 11 soon, so there's no financial incentive for anyone to backport ADL support to W10

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

I doubt it. Every new PC will be sold with Windows 11 soon, so there's no financial incentive for anyone to backport ADL support to W10

We willll see I suppose.

I doubted companies would update because of legacy apps etc but after thinking about it the powers that be tend to have opted for payed for web based applications to do, ahem help them do they're job's these days, automated IT and HR, joy, you might be right.

A few companies I have worked at had offline special concession PC's for jobs like flashing hardware so to be fair legacy is half ass covered anyway.

 

[GURU7OF9]

For a fair comparison I must test on the same OS as Alder Lake? And obviously testing Alder Lake on Windows 10 makes no sense? Even though these could be interesting separate investigations

Win 11 is specifically built for ADL so it is logical to test it on that platform. But Win11 is also known to be broken for Ryzen.
So how do you have a fair comparison if you know Win 11 is broken on AMD Ryzen ?

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

Win 11 is specifically built for ADL so it is logical to test it on that platform. But Win11 is also known to be broken for Ryzen.
So how do you have a fair comparison if you know Win 11 is broken on AMD Ryzen ?

Fingers crossed for AMDs driver squad, but to be fair it's going to be On AMD , windows 11 can't have slipped under they're radar, I'm not keen on unfair comparison but the truth tends to wash out doesn't it.
What can anyone but AMD do, the opposite (W10 benches)is also unfair.

W10(Ryzen) verses W11(Intel) also isn't fair and I am not sure it would go as you might expect, I think W11 will have optimization to be done.