Kyle from HardOCP on the Future of the Graphics Card Industry and Hardware Reviewers

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

And did we not see an eventual battle between AMD and Nvidia at $150? With the Turing GTX 1650 Super?

The top-end cards that jumped in price is permanent, but they are subsidizing things for the rest of us! that means you can eventually get good value cards (the RTX 3050 should have launched at $200, the exact same price the 128-bit GTX 960 launched at, and the 6500 XT should have replaced the RX 560 at $129!)

Subsidized my arse, they're profiting by at least 30% so I don't see how you assume any subsidy.

Reviews or GTFO , MSRP or I am not buying. .... .

 

[Ferrum Master]

I bloody hate watching news videos.

They, internet divas can choke on that soap opera like content.

 

[Testsubject01]

So Kyle's "Magic Wishing Ball" suddenly matters after three years of silence? For all we know, Etherium 2.0 could kill the rest of the smaller coins for the next several years (NEVER BEFORE HAS A COIN THIS ESTABLISHED MADE THE TRANSITION, SO PEOPLE MAY GO OVERBOARD SELLING CARDS FOR MORE STAKE)

THE ONLY REASON WHY WE HAD 2 YEARS SUSTAINED MARKUP WAS because both crypto and Covid hit us at exactly the same time; once yearly multi-strain Covid shots become a thing, most businesses will be able to ease restrictions on part-flow (and eventually MSRPs will fall back down to 2019 levels)

The overpriced RTX 2000 series, released in 2018 – 2019.

It's amazing how people seem to already have forgotten about pricing prior to 2018 and hail the entry level RTX 3050 at $249.99 MSRP like the second coming.
The same price, GTX 1060 launched at in 2016, a proper mid-range card. Manufactures and AIB's are pressing the margins as hard as they can and won't go back, just giving up those “hard-earned” increases in profit.

 

[Makaveli]

That was the best read all morning. I miss Kyle and HardOCP. I love reading things hate Youtube.

Everytime I see a review on Youtube or other platform they have to add bells and whistles, Music and junk.

I love to read. Maybe see few pictures which is good. But other wise it's quite good.

I have worked in IT for 25 years now and I'm started to see who is going to replace me when I retire and I'm quite scared really I am. These new Techs and Adminstrators I see today right out of college cannot think for themselfs. They get into a problem and they basicly Google it look at the first thing and try it. Sometimes making things much worse. When I got into Tech there was no google no look ups No youtube. You basicly had to learn ways to fix it yourself. Those are the best because you use your brain for something. You think the basics and they try what you know and then try something new.

Back then was not much VM's around or virtualized machines. We would basicly ghost it to another PC then try all sorts of ways to fix the problem. FInd a solution write it down and remember it and then try it on the actually PC in the first place.

Over the course of IT I even ran my own business and I tell ya some of the people wanting jobs were some of the dumbest certified people I ever saw. I met many book smart people and one I was so amazed and there stupid level it got stuck in my head forever. I hired a MCSE once and 2 days in I asked her to build a PC for a server. When I checked the motherboard when she finished I asked why there was only one screw holding the thing in. She said that what the manual said to do. Lets just say she did not last long.

i've been in IT 20+ years myself and this googling to fix stuff is a big problem. And everything you have written in this post is spot on. my Computer usage predates google and youtube so you actually had to learn stuff back then.

 

[80-watt Hamster]

A lot to unpack there, given the length of the piece. I want to touch on the VCR analogy, though, since Wizz highlighted it specifically. I think GPUs already work how Kyle described VCRs, and has been for years. No, 99% of consumers didn't care what specific chip or whatever was in a VCR. What they did care about was how it performed, particularly in the early days of the tech, before it had become fully mature and commoditized. Price, featureset and quality could vary greatly between models and manufacturers, and this held true to a certain extent (IMO) almost until the dawn of DVD. But that's all external, high-level stuff. Only the biggest AV nerds really gave a crap about what's inside, and I'd argue the same is broadly true in PC graphics cards. The chip inside a graphics card is obviously much more important than any single component of a VCR (except maybe the read head), but what ultimately matters is how it performs and what it costs. Only the turbo nerds care what the bus width is, how much VRAM it's got, how the PCIe lanes are configured, or whether the new XX50 is as good as the previous generation XX60. All the other 99% of buyers care about, in VCRs or GPUs, is what they paid, how well it works, and maybe (for graphics cards) who the chipmaker was.

 

[Tom Sunday]

It's a problem that already seems to be correcting itself.

This kind of correction will be nice to see if on a continuing basis. But surely the MSRP saga will ultimately be made history, so that poor “men on the streets” like me have to pay more and helping companies to un-restrictively maximize profits. After all GPU manufacturer 'Execs' are looking for big bonuses and stock options again come December 2022. My former employer NIKE still has about 65% of the former 4x4 cubicle people sitting at home and HR has reduced WFH home people to casual-level employees. One of the Execs on the upstairs floor with windowed offices wrote a recent memo which went viral stating: ”We never thought that Covid worked out so well for us and to expunging unnecessary full-time employees! Another big money saver in salaries and office space costs to accommodate such human capital." Bottom-line…it appears that my own problems however along with my former very dear 'cubicle buddies' will not be correcting itself or ever? Most certainly there will be no money for any upgraded GPU's.

 

[Operandi]

I bloody hate watching news videos.

They, internet divas can choke on that soap opera like content.

I feel like there is a generational thing going on here...

Youtube (video) and other social media is just another form of media, it serves a different function than long form written content. It's easier for the consumer to take in the information and it allows the content creator to connect with their audience on more personal level. A lot of it is cringe inducing garbage but a lot of its quite good, just depends on the source.

I have worked in IT for 25 years now and I'm started to see who is going to replace me when I retire and I'm quite scared really I am. These new Techs and Adminstrators I see today right out of college cannot think for themselfs. They get into a problem and they basicly Google it look at the first thing and try it. Sometimes making things much worse. When I got into Tech there was no google no look ups No youtube. You basicly had to learn ways to fix it yourself. Those are the best because you use your brain for something. You think the basics and they try what you know and then try something new.

Back then was not much VM's around or virtualized machines. We would basicly ghost it to another PC then try all sorts of ways to fix the problem. FInd a solution write it down and remember it and then try it on the actually PC in the first place.

Over the course of IT I even ran my own business and I tell ya some of the people wanting jobs were some of the dumbest certified people I ever saw. I met many book smart people and one I was so amazed and there stupid level it got stuck in my head forever. I hired a MCSE once and 2 days in I asked her to build a PC for a server. When I checked the motherboard when she finished I asked why there was only one screw holding the thing in. She said that what the manual said to do. Lets just say she did not last long.

Unless you are intimately familiar with the issue Googling (searching) should always be your first course of action. The internet is just a repository of information, its what you do with that information that counts.

 

[Ferrum Master]

Youtube (video) and other social media is just another form of media

You are so wrong here. The medium itself makes you the product and by any means the show is added to add more clicks, clickbaits etc useless PoS tactics.

You can consume written text much much much more faster and you remember more. There nothing changed in human nature about that.

 

[80-watt Hamster]

You are so wrong here. The medium itself makes you the product and by any means the show is added to add more clicks, clickbaits etc useless PoS tactics.

You can consume written text much much much more faster and you remember more. There nothing changed in human nature about that.

That's a property of the platform (YouTube, not the medium (video). Every digitally delivered medium has you-are-the-product problems. Facebook for text. Instagram for images. There's nothing inherently "bad" about video, but the near-complete lack of viable alternatives to YT make that particular problem seem much worse in regard to it. Anyway, certain content (for example, watching someone talk from a script for 20 minutes interspersed with charts or something) is definitely better suited to an article, but something like a disassembly demo is much more effectively delivered via video. Though a text guide with accompanying photos or illustrations is an invaluable companion even then.

 

[Operandi]

The medium itself makes you the product and by any means the show is added to add more clicks, clickbaits etc useless PoS tactics.

Thats not unique to Youtube, Instagram, TikTok or any new form media. Its present in all the forms its just that with these the layers ambiguity are removed.

 

[Ferrum Master]

Thats not unique to Youtube, Instagram, TikTok or any new form media. Its present in all the forms its just that with these the layers ambiguity are removed.

Not to a degree that the presenter turns into subjective retarded clown just for the sake of it. The presented material gets only the second role. The show ie circus becomes more important.

I don't have instacrap, twitters nor ever used tiktoks etc... And I am not the only one. As I said, written media as a form, not some stupid video stays in memory much better and it takes faster to consume.

FFs it would take half of day of some youtube idiots if I would gather info about sports news. Like NBA, NHL, them Premier League, trades, injuries etc. With some sports sites you cover it in few minutes. Here is no different.

Kyle just want's money and controversial topics. He earns for boiling up the pot.

 

[Renald]

Ridiculously priced GPUs started with Turing, a full year before COVID. Just sayin'.

"Ridiculously priced" was like "you can get one, but it's 30% more if you don't want to wait"

Then Covid arrived, rich people got bored with nowhere to spend their money, so they started playing with BTC. Once you understand that the stock is limited and/or you have direct access to the supply chain, you're rich and entertained while people like us see price at minimum +100%, when it's available.
The snowball is rolling for a decade now, unless something happens in a legal way. Highly valued BTC is keeping price of GPU up, and lack of GPU keep BTC high. Scalpers are smoothing the process, which makes it impossible to break.

We don't need to find a complex explanation to a problem so simple.
1 year before Covid, mining Eth was not profitable unless specific cases.

 

[R-T-B]

NEVER BEFORE HAS A COIN THIS ESTABLISHED

By what metric? Bitcoin had virtually 100% market share when it went ASIC only. It has happened, people just forget.

Otherwise though I feel you are spot on.

I absolutely hate watching videos - I hate listening to people talk. I'd much rather read what's on a screen. I hope things don't forever transition to whiny, snot nosed pukes that love listening to their own voice.....

Ick....just f'ing gross.

I'm totally with you here.

 

[Operandi]

Not to a degree that the presenter turns into subjective retarded clown just for the sake of it. The presented material gets only the second role. The show ie circus becomes more important.

I don't have instacrap, twitters nor ever used tiktoks etc... And I am not the only one. As I said, written media as a form, not some stupid video stays in memory much better and it takes faster to consume.

FFs it would take half of day of some youtube idiots if I would gather info about sports news. Like NBA, NHL, them Premier League, trades, injuries etc. With some sports sites you cover it in few minutes. Here is no different.

Kyle just want's money and controversial topics. He earns for boiling up the pot.

So let me get this straight.... Your inability parse the content and determine whats good and whats garbage is the forms problem? Thats quite the stance you got there.

Youtube, Instagram, Twitter, TikTok are all just different forms of media, some of it is good some of it is bad, same as newspaper, magazines, books, papyrus, stone tablets. People consume information differently, if you don't care for particular platform don't use it but don't complain about new forms of media or ways to communicate that you don't get or simply don't like, thats pointless.

 

[r9]

I feel like there is a generational thing going on here...

Youtube (video) and other social media is just another form of media, it serves a different function than long form written content. It's easier for the consumer to take in the information and it allows the content creator to connect with their audience on more personal level. A lot of it is cringe inducing garbage but a lot of its quite good, just depends on the source.


Unless you are intimately familiar with the issue Googling (searching) should always be your first course of action. The internet is just a repository of information, its what you do with that information that counts.

Nothing wrong with Googling for stuff just have to use your brain on what makes sense and what doesn't for the given case. You can't just paste commands in PS and cmd and hope for the best.

 

[defaultluser]

Subsidized my arse, they're profiting by at least 30% so I don't see how you assume any subsidy.

Reviews or GTFO , MSRP or I am not buying. .... .

The mass-production necessary to give you such low price just isn't there yet; but may be within a year!

you can quit pretending right now that Covid hasn't had an impact in delivery times for EVERYTHING (and thus also the supply lines for all the varied parts that go into each video card)

 

[Easo]

No, prices won't go back to MSRP levels. It looks quite clear that generational increases of the same level of card, say 1060/2060/3060 will each be followed by price increase. And no, it will be above the costs of inflation. Yes, the capability increases, but that should be expected due to generational improvements otherwise what's the point? I think good times for affordable mid and high end cards are over, no matter how much the price will drop over the crypto bubble burst.

And I really think nVidia/AMD do not really care about the bad press that much. It is quite niche after all. We are buying the cards after all...

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

The mass-production necessary to give you such low price just isn't there yet; but may be within a year!

you can quit pretending right now that Covid hasn't had an impact in delivery times for EVERYTHING (and thus also the supply lines for all the varied parts that go into each video card)

I Do work , live, eat and of course I heard about shortages , as for lack of product to us yes , in general record shipments and money earned beg to differ though.

 

[RH92]

I disagree with the second point Kyle is trying to make . For sure many big tech Youtubers deserve to be called influencers but that being said fortunately for us Youtube also offers some excellent reviewers such as GamersNexus or HardwareUnboxed who rival if not set the standard in terms of principles/ethics even when compared to some of the the best critical reviewers working on written format ( especially true for the GamersNexus team ) . Hence why i find it a bit dishonest from Kyle Bennet to put all eggs in the same basket .

I mean YouTube is not any more different that traditional press , you have a majority of influencers and a few true journalists doing their job . In my opinion it boils down to the readers/content consumers , vast majority of potential readers/content consumers have not the intellectual capacity to read/consume some detailed analysis on a given subject thus this type of inviduals will naturally converge towards the influencers , the remaining small portion of individuals will naturally converge towards true reviewers .

 

[Lionheart]

This feels like pre conditioning in the disguise of a warning to us PC tech enthusiasts

 

[mechtech]

i've been in IT 20+ years myself and this googling to fix stuff is a big problem. And everything you have written in this post is spot on. my Computer usage predates google and youtube so you actually had to learn stuff back then.

Not in IT, but ya manuals, read, try do, learn, remember.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

Well regardless, you keep reviewing stuff I'll keep reading it @W1zzard and Thank you.

 

[mechtech]

I Do work , live, eat and of course I heard about shortages , as for lack of product to us yes , in general record shipments and money earned beg to differ though.

Indeed.

When this global pandemic was called and they started to shut down restaurants, etc. I was expecting a repeat of 2008, the economy to tank and be able get a full size truck for $30k new off the lot, etc. etc.

This is not what I expected. Everyone dumping everything into crypto, pricing on a ton of stuff going up 500% while people stay at home, people hoarding cleaning stuff and toilet paper, scalpers, retailers, e-tailers, even the squirrel in the backyard throwing peanuts back and demanding almonds, well maybe not the squirrel, but anyway. Then industry saying ohhh production way down, and all the way down the business food change jumping on the bandwagon, ohhh tough times.......(except for our quarterlies $$). Then see actual shipments and profits completely destroy anything previous in history. So has COVID had an effect, yes, but I think people (scalpers, etc. etc.) and people at the top have had a much more profound effect on pricing and availability of stuffs.

Hopefully the silliness loses steam sooner than later, before my wallet rusts closed, cause it's almost there.

 

[Mac the Geek]

By the way, if you're reading this, you'll have to thank Kyle for it. He's been a major source of inspiration for me back in the day, which ultimately lead to me starting TPU

I used to enjoy reading the detail in an [H] review. I like your reviews for the same reason. The only thing better than a ton of graphs is two tons of graphs.

On the editorial itself, I think everyone is missing the irony: Kyle wanted to tell everyone that videos are the future of reviews, so he wrote an essay to do it.

As for MSRP... it's largely meaningless in a time of short supply, but I think it will come back when supply catches up with demand. MSRP is a single number that indicates how "good" a manufacturer thinks a part is; as such, it promotes competition in a normal market. You can't have a price/performance metric without a standard reference price.

 

[stinger608]

So Kyle's "Magic Wishing Ball" suddenly matters after three years of silence?

Oh my God, have you been under a rock for "three years" or what?????? Have you not been aware of [H]ard Forums? You think he has been silent since shutting down HardOCP? Wow.

I'm not saying every thing he says is the gospel, but he knows his shit most of the time.