Are components with high power draw an issue for you?

[kapone32]

I've had 8 card mining rigs pull less.

Shit my power guzzling Vega sits within 350/500 Watt's

I would say it's a very very small percentage of Enthusiasts that upgrade that often, most are granular upgrades afaik and that's enthusiasts, the 98% public buy now and again.

What I could not believe is that is on a test bench with no RGB fans, Multiple NVME or Capture Cards. The kicker was that it was a 1000W PSU. That new 12 pin connector is 3 8 Pin connectors. There are plenty of people with more money than sense that are thinking of being the fastest of the flock.

 

[wolf]

I don't like the idea mostly from heat perspective, but honestly this is pretty much only an issue for silly crazy top end halo components/products well beyond any semblance of value, they all have shocking price to performance value and crank up the power to make them 0-10% faster than the next best thing for bragging rights.

My gut says if you we're going to buy one of these terrible value products, the power draw is pretty far down the list of your concerns.

 

[chrcoluk]

The times we in the UK, managed to reduce my desktop power draw on desktop/browsing usage by 20 watts, well chuffed.

 

[AusWolf]

I don't like the idea mostly from heat perspective, but honestly this is pretty much only an issue for silly crazy top end halo components/products well beyond any semblance of value, they all have shocking price to performance value and crank up the power to make them 0-10% faster than the next best thing for bragging rights.

My gut says if you we're going to buy one of these terrible value products, the power draw is pretty far down the list of your concerns.

The problem is that most of current gen hardware fits the description of halo product - I'd say everything above RTX 3070, RX 6700 XT, Core i5 12th gen, Core i7 11th gen (especially K-series) and Ryzen 7 level.

If the trend continues, one will soon have to buy a Core i3 with a 50-series card to stay within a reasonable power budget.

 

[wolf]

If the trend continues

I'm really not that worried tbh, as the high end pushes higher, the low end is still trying to eek as much out of low wattage as possible, like the steam deck and it's competitors. There will generally always be parts that fit the power budget people want to aim for, and they will keep getting better as perf/watt increases.

 

[nguyen]

I'm really not that worried tbh, as the high end pushes higher, the low end is still trying to eek as much out of low wattage as possible, like the steam deck and it's competitors. There will generally always be parts that fit the power budget people want to aim for, and they will keep getting better as perf/watt increases.

There are so many ways to reduce power consumption like undervolting, FPS capping, upscaling + FPS capping (which Steam Deck also use). I don't get why people (who actually are aware of all these methods) like to complain about high power consumption LMAO.

If anyone like to have the most efficient part, just buy apple, i heard the M1 Uber Super Ultra chip has the best efficiency out there.

 

[AusWolf]

There are so many ways to reduce power consumption like undervolting, FPS capping, upscaling + FPS capping (which Steam Deck also use). I don't get why people (who actually are aware of all these methods) like to complain about high power consumption LMAO.

If anyone like to have the most efficient part, just buy apple, i heard the M1 Uber Super Ultra chip has the best efficiency out there.

Undervolting doesn't give you a low profile graphics card with no power connector. I know it's a niche market, but I love GPUs that transform HTPCs into mini gaming rigs.

Also, you first have to put your system together and run it on full power before you start tinkering in the BIOS and GPU control apps. You need to account for this when you buy a PSU - and if you do, you might as well leave everything on full power anyway.

The purpose of low power components is exactly that: low power consumption out of the box without any tinkering. I don't get why people expect everyone else to share their passion of flipping switches in the BIOS. Some people want a PC that just works and I think there's nothing wrong with that.

Apple is only an option in an Apple ecosystem, not really useful for anything else.

I'm really not that worried tbh, as the high end pushes higher, the low end is still trying to eek as much out of low wattage as possible, like the steam deck and it's competitors. There will generally always be parts that fit the power budget people want to aim for, and they will keep getting better as perf/watt increases.

Maybe. But the Steam Deck is a mobile unit where power consumption and heat are crucial. Desktop PCs are a different story. CPUs are fine, but the low/middle class of GPUs seem to be completely abandoned by both/all parties and the only really middle class GPUs consume way more power than they should. I know, iGPUs have a lot to do with this, but I don't think there's a reason why nvidia shouldn't repeat the 1050 Ti and 1650, or why the 3050 couldn't have received a little fine-tune to become a 75 W PCI-e bus powered card.

 

[nguyen]

The purpose of low power components is exactly that: low power consumption out of the box without any tinkering. I don't get why people expect everyone else to share their passion of flipping switches in the BIOS. Some people want a PC that just works and I think there's nothing wrong with that.

Exactly, I prefer to tinker around with PC hardware, getting the best balance between FPS, Efficiency, Thermal and Noise out of them instead of being locked out of the tuning part.

Even when I build PC for friends, I often overclock/undervolt their PC (CPU-RAM-GPU), gotta put my 25-year PC building experience to good use . Right now there are so many tools to tune your hardware however you want, it's kinda a waste to run your PC at stock.

 

[wolf]

Maybe. But the Steam Deck is a mobile unit where power consumption and heat are crucial. Desktop PCs are a different story. CPUs are fine, but the low/middle class of GPUs seem to be completely abandoned by both/all parties and the only really middle class GPUs consume way more power than they should. I know, iGPUs have a lot to do with this, but I don't think there's a reason why nvidia shouldn't repeat the 1050 Ti and 1650, or why the 3050 couldn't have received a little fine-tune to become a 75 W PCI-e bus powered card.

I think such parts current omission from the market is just because of the crazy frenzy that has been shortages, covid, logistics, mining etc etc, the focus has been on what is more profitable but I don't see these segments being completely abandoned forever.

I do believe in the next 0-36 months we will get some very compelling entries into the 50-200w GPU segment. Personally hoping for more low proifle options!

 

[nguyen]

I think such parts current omission from the market is just because of the crazy frenzy that has been shortages, covid, logistics, mining etc etc, the focus has been on what is more profitable but I don't see these segments being completely abandoned forever.

I do believe in the next 0-36 months we will get some very compelling entries into the 50-200w GPU segment. Personally hoping for more low proifle options!

I think HTPC are better off designed around power hungry components so that they can use normal PC parts and not expensive parts specifically designed for HTPC. I mean the 12th gen Intel NUC looks nice .

 

[Stagger_lee69]

Doesn't reply bother me. I have solar during the day and running the 3090 Ti etc., for a few hours at night is a couple of bucks a month, even with high electricity prices here in Australia compared to the U.S.

 

[BigMack70]

I don't care about power draw if the performance is there. I would have dropped my 3090 for a 3090 Ti if the Ti was 30% faster. But all that extra heat and money on an electric bill for a performance difference that's not even noticeable unless you are measuring it? No thanks. It was already obvious with the 3080 and 3090 that Ampere was pushed well past its optimum efficiency point at stock 320-350W power draws, and this just demonstrates it in hilarious fashion.

If the 4090 comes out and is 600W but 50% faster, I'll get one if I can afford it without caring about power draw.

 

[springs113]

I don't care about power draw if the performance is there. I would have dropped my 3090 for a 3090 Ti if the Ti was 30% faster. But all that extra heat and money on an electric bill for a performance difference that's not even noticeable unless you are measuring it? No thanks. It was already obvious with the 3080 and 3090 that Ampere was pushed well past its optimum efficiency point at stock 320-350W power draws, and this just demonstrates it in hilarious fashion.

If the 4090 comes out and is 600W but 50% faster, I'll get one if I can afford it without caring about power draw.

Heat kills electrical components... that heat unless vastly tamed don't just affect your gpu.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Is this something that concerns you?

Yes. I'm mostly in the heat camp, but the power usage is very worrisome as well. 400+watts for a GPU is redonkulous! Yes, I want high performance, but at these power levels? Gonna have to pass. NVidia, AMD and Intel all need to go back the drawing board and cut power usage by 65%.

 

[Solid State Brain]

What I see likely to happen if enough people complain is NVidia, AMD and Intel making a "gentlemen's agreement" and hard-capping GPU power to 225W or less for new GPUS, without any possibility of increasing it in any way on the user side.

Or worse, the European Union could be mandating some ridiculously low maximum total power consumption for personal computers (and built-in means to enforce it), perhaps using energy crisis or climate change as an excuse, and other regions to quickly follow suit.

 

[Corduroy2739]

Where going back from the old fermi days and starting all over again lol

 

[sn2x]

Not really an issue for me on the CPU side since in gaming the power difference between CPUs isn't much, and in tasks where the power is used in my case the tasks would get done so quick I don't think the high power would be an issue for me.

GPU power does matter to me though. My PSU is "only" 600w which means I probably can't use current or next-gen high end cards unless they under volt really well.

 

[AusWolf]

Exactly, I prefer to tinker around with PC hardware, getting the best balance between FPS, Efficiency, Thermal and Noise out of them instead of being locked out of the tuning part.

Even when I build PC for friends, I often overclock/undervolt their PC (CPU-RAM-GPU), gotta put my 25-year PC building experience to good use . Right now there are so many tools to tune your hardware however you want, it's kinda a waste to run your PC at stock.

I see where you're coming from, and I sort of agree-disagree. I mean, I see the benefits of undervolting, but to do that, you first have to configure your cooling and PSU size around the normal power consumption of your components. You first have to turn your PC on at stock to even start the undervolting process. If your PSU and cooling can handle it, you might as well just leave things at stock.

My real problem is that a big chunky GPU with a hundred power connectors is a big chunky GPU with a hundred power connectors whether you undervolt it or not. I don't like big chunky things (except for food and the rear side of women).

Overclocking on the other hand, is completely useless nowadays, imo. I could see the point in it 10-20 years ago when everything ran at fixed clocks and the only differentiating factor among components was clock speed. These days, you have such aggressive turbo algorithms out of the box, that overclocking will only give you a marginal, if any, benefit. You can also lose your single-threaded boost bins on your CPU if you overclock it, which is a waste.

 

[Solid State Brain]

Overclocking on the other hand, is completely useless nowadays, imo. I could see the point in it 10-20 years ago when everything ran at fixed clocks and the only differentiating factor among components was clock speed. These days, you have such aggressive turbo algorithms out of the box, that overclocking will only give you a marginal, if any, benefit. You can also lose your single-threaded boost bins on your CPU if your overclock it, which is a waste.

If you just do it TPU review-style with fixed voltages and a fixed all-core turbo ratio, it's obvious that you will lose single-thread boost performance, but this is a quick-and-fast dumb overclock.

It's also possible to tune load turbo ratios more precisely and to use adaptive voltages so that you can have measurable gains in single- and few-threads loads, but of course this requires more work.

 

[AusWolf]

If you just do it TPU review-style with fixed voltages and a fixed all-core turbo ratio, it's obvious that you will lose single-thread boost performance, but this is a quick-and-fast dumb overclock.

It's also possible to tune load turbo ratios more precisely and to use adaptive voltages so that you can have measurable gains in single- and few-threads loads, but of course this requires more work.

But even then, the results are marginal. I don't think you can get more than 10% out of any modern component, which is something you'll never notice in real life programs.

 

[Solid State Brain]

It's debatable whether 10% or even 5% (more realistically with air cooling) is something you'll never notice or care about. Often users choose one component over the other for performance differences smaller than this.

I'm just happy knowing that my 12700K can now have the same or better P-core frequencies than the 12900K at all load conditions.

 

[AusWolf]

It's debatable whether 10% or even 5% (more realistically with air cooling) is something you'll never notice or care about. Often users choose one component over the other for performance differences smaller than this.

Choosing components over small differences, and actually seeing those differences are two completely different things.

 

[nguyen]

I see where you're coming from, and I sort of agree-disagree. I mean, I see the benefits of undervolting, but to do that, you first have to configure your cooling and PSU size around the normal power consumption of your components. You first have to turn your PC on at stock to even start the undervolting process. If your PSU and cooling can handle it, you might as well just leave things at stock.

My real problem is that a big chunky GPU with a hundred power connectors is a big chunky GPU with a hundred power connectors whether you undervolt it or not. I don't like big chunky things (except for food and the rear side of women).

Overclocking on the other hand, is completely useless nowadays, imo. I could see the point in it 10-20 years ago when everything ran at fixed clocks and the only differentiating factor among components was clock speed. These days, you have such aggressive turbo algorithms out of the box, that overclocking will only give you a marginal, if any, benefit. You can also lose your single-threaded boost bins on your CPU if you overclock it, which is a waste.

IDK what you are talking about, my 3090 runs fine at stock with a 750W Gold PSU (which is the recommended PSU wattage for 3090). There is no reason to run my 3090 at stock because I can run stock clocks with -125mV on it, cutting power consumption by ~100W

These big and chunky GPUs cut down noise to a considerable degree, both Nvidia and AMD have upped their thermal solutions this generation that their 300W+ GPU run cooler and quieter than their past top dog GPUs (this force AIBs to improve their cooling solutions too).

IMO I prefer every GPU come with 2x8pin PCIe power connectors no matter their TDP since every PSU come with piggyback PCIe power connector anyways, it looks stupid to leave some cable hanging out (make me wanna cut those cable), and yeah my 3090 has 2x8pin PCIe power too

 

[AusWolf]

IDK what you are talking about, my 3090 runs fine at stock with a 750W Gold PSU (which is the recommended PSU wattage for 3090). There is no reason to run my 3090 at stock because I can run stock clocks with -125mV on it, cutting power consumption by ~100W

Well, I have a 550 W PSU, and while I could technically cut down the power consumption on a 3090 to fit my budget, I would first have to run it at stock to install Windows, the drivers and the tuning software.

These big and chunky GPUs cut down noise to a considerable degree, both Nvidia and AMD have upped their thermal solutions this generation that their 300W+ GPU run cooler and quieter than their past top dog GPUs (this force AIBs to improve their cooling solutions too).

Nothing cuts noise down more than this.

Jokes aside, how much bigger can coolers be to fit 300+ or even 400+ W power budgets? All that aluminium and copper has to come from somewhere - it isn't free.

IMO I prefer every GPU come with 2x8pin PCIe power connectors no matter their TDP since every PSU come with piggyback PCIe power connector anyways, it looks stupid to leave some cable hanging out (make me wanna cut those cable), and yeah my 3090 has 2x8pin PCIe power too
View attachment 242991

It's more elegant, but not necessary. I'd prefer to see lower/mid-tier GPUs (like the 3050 or RX 6500 XT) with no power connector at all.

 

[nguyen]

Well, I have a 550 W PSU, and while I could technically cut down the power consumption on a 3090 to fit my budget, I would first have to run it at stock to install Windows, the drivers and the tuning software.

Jokes aside, how much bigger can coolers be to fit 300+ or even 400+ W power budgets? All that aluminium and copper has to come from somewhere - it isn't free.

It's more elegant, but not necessary. I'd prefer to see lower/mid-tier GPUs (like the 3050 or RX 6500 XT) with no power connector at all.

You shouldn't really buy high-end GPU with a 550W PSU anyways, even if said high-end GPU has TDP of 250W it might have big power spikes.

3080 FE cost the same as 1080Ti FE, runs cooler and quieter while offering 85% more FPS at 4K, who cares if it use 70W more?

Well AIB like to reuse PCB designs as much as possible to cut down cost, so you will have to pay extra for GPU without power connector (like the A2000), which I don't think is worth it.