Are components with high power draw an issue for you?

[lexluthermiester]

To add something new to the mix of debate here;

NVIDIA's new AD102-based GeForce RTX 4090: 600W+ power usage CONFIRMED

NVIDIA's next-gen GeForce RTX 4090 'confirmed' to have TBP of 600W, 'further along' than other cards, could be 'first' to launch.

www.tweaktown.com

With the 30x0 series RTX cards, I'm not too concerned with the power draw. 300ish watts is within reason. But 600watts? No, that is insane and ridiculous. 300w should be considered to be the ceiling of GPU power draw.

@ NVidia?
WTF are you thinking? Are your collective heads lodged firmly in your bum? Do BETTER! We want powerful GPU's, not space heaters.

 

[dayne878]

I put it isn't an issue but the more I'm reading the comments the more I considered more things.

I run my computer currently 24/7. Most of the time it's idle, so not huge (I assume) power draw, but the heat does concern me, even at idle. The room I'm in gets about 10 degrees cooler than the rest of the house during the height of summer, even with air conditioning, because it's a room above the garage/surrounded by attic that might be under-insulated and so it gets hot fast. But I think a part of that is the computer running with a CPU at 30-40C even at idle all day long. That has to have an impact.

I run it 24/7 for work currently, and for a plex server. But soon I'll be getting a work laptop and I don't use plex that much so I'm going to start turning the desktop off at night to save 8-10+ hours of electricty per day, possibly reduce the temperature of the room and maybe save a little bit of money.

That said, I don't think my computer alone is what makes my electric bill so high. I also have a chest freezer and an older (from like 2003) top-freezer refrigerator in my garage, which again gets hot in the summer, and then the refrigerator and normal appliances in the house, on top of an "instant" hot water heater which primarily uses electricity to heat the water. So I would kind of be hypocritical to say I'm doing it solely to save electricity when I'm obviously wasting energy running cold appliances in a hot (during summer in Michigan) garage and those appliances probably use more energy than my computer.

I probably should get a meter to track my computer electricity usage, but I figure I'll see it in changes in my bill soon enough.

 

[ghazi]

Wow, people care more either about themselves ("I don't care") or noise, rather than environment...
Ok I understand that the increase in power draw include more heat, thus more fans, thus more noise and in the end power draw determines your bill.

But do you freaking need to spend 300W on overclocking you dGPU memory to gain useless +5% FPS when you already have 300FPS ??
300Wh is an entire machine for many of us.

You can be selfish or blind to environmental problems, fine.
But noise ! Noise guys !!! You care more about a freaking fan than the (only) planet (we have)

Put a freaking headset with noise cancelling and don't tick the box "I care more about the noise of my GPU than Earth".
*Screaming inside*

Friend, you are not doing a single thing to save the environment by lowering the collective electricity usage of your country by less than a billionth of one percent. This is in large part a scam to divert attention from major industrial pollution. Kind of like how everything we buy is wrapped in plastic, which has caused entire parts of the sea to die and become anoxic, and is disrupting the endocrine system and other chemistry of every human being and living thing with horrific effects that nobody can get funding to study... but you should be banned from getting plastic bags at the supermarket or when you take out food, possibly the most useful application of plastic to normal folks... pay no attention to the other 99% of it. Same thing as how the EVs output thousands of kg of terrible toxic waste in both production and disposal, and typically run on electricity generated from fossil fuels, but somehow your measly tax dollars have to subsidize the richest man in the world's perpetually unprofitable EV business because it's mandatory to save the environment. I think you need to readjust your priorities, and yes, cut out the virtue signaling also. Your damage to "the earth" is practically identical to those you're looking down on and scolding, and you're blaming common working people for something caused principally by major industries, whose executives love to shift the blame off of the exact way you're doing while they fly their private jets. There are enough far bigger problems to spend a lifetime on.

Now, as someone who used to run an FX turd at almost 1.6 volts 24/7 for kicks, I certainly cannot profess to give a damn about power consumption. My power bill went down by something like $20 when I replaced that system. Do I really mind? We could all go full Kaczynski you know. The problem truly arises when a component at stock draws so much power that it becomes impractical for end users, and when companies lose sight of efficiency improvements. Part of why Ampere gets the hate it does for power draw is because many of its configurations are barely more efficient than Pascal. If the 3090 took 40% more power than the 2080 Ti but was 80% faster instead of 40% faster, well, it's another story. And again, keep in mind SLI is dead! If now we get a new tier of GPUs taking 500W+ and costing $1500, when 10 years ago this niche was fulfilled by running two 250W+ GPUs costing $700 each... no real difference is there? Granted, I'm also pissed at how expensive silicon has become.

But right now with 5800X + 6900 XT, I kind of have the opposite problem. The 5800X power draw is fine but the heat can't be removed from it quickly enough, and the 6900 XT has a ridiculously low power limit (given the tier of card at least) because I didn't wait to buy the worthless XTXH scam that nobody knew was coming and AMD had to lock down the card in drivers to throttle if I try flashing the BIOS. Now that's another load of BS for you...

But nonetheless, I will continue to troll NVIDIA + Intel users for their housefires.

 

[Renald]

Friend, you are not doing a single thing to save the environment by lowering the collective electricity usage of your country by less than a billionth of one percent. This is in large part a scam to divert attention from major industrial pollution. Kind of like how everything we buy is wrapped in plastic, which has caused entire parts of the sea to die and become anoxic, and is disrupting the endocrine system and other chemistry of every human being and living thing with horrific effects that nobody can get funding to study... but you should be banned from getting plastic bags at the supermarket or when you take out food, possibly the most useful application of plastic to normal folks... pay no attention to the other 99% of it. Same thing as how the EVs output thousands of kg of terrible toxic waste in both production and disposal, and typically run on electricity generated from fossil fuels, but somehow your measly tax dollars have to subsidize the richest man in the world's perpetually unprofitable EV business because it's mandatory to save the environment. I think you need to readjust your priorities, and yes, cut out the virtue signaling also. Your damage to "the earth" is practically identical to those you're looking down on and scolding, and you're blaming common working people for something caused principally by major industries, whose executives love to shift the blame off of the exact way you're doing while they fly their private jets. There are enough far bigger problems to spend a lifetime on.

Now, as someone who used to run an FX turd at almost 1.6 volts 24/7 for kicks, I certainly cannot profess to give a damn about power consumption. My power bill went down by something like $20 when I replaced that system. Do I really mind? We could all go full Kaczynski you know. The problem truly arises when a component at stock draws so much power that it becomes impractical for end users, and when companies lose sight of efficiency improvements. Part of why Ampere gets the hate it does for power draw is because many of its configurations are barely more efficient than Pascal. If the 3090 took 40% more power than the 2080 Ti but was 80% faster instead of 40% faster, well, it's another story. And again, keep in mind SLI is dead! If now we get a new tier of GPUs taking 500W+ and costing $1500, when 10 years ago this niche was fulfilled by running two 250W+ GPUs costing $700 each... no real difference is there? Granted, I'm also pissed at how expensive silicon has become.

But right now with 5800X + 6900 XT, I kind of have the opposite problem. The 5800X power draw is fine but the heat can't be removed from it quickly enough, and the 6900 XT has a ridiculously low power limit (given the tier of card at least) because I didn't wait to buy the worthless XTXH scam that nobody knew was coming and AMD had to lock down the card in drivers to throttle if I try flashing the BIOS. Now that's another load of BS for you...

But nonetheless, I will continue to troll NVIDIA + Intel users for their housefires.

Your judging all my environmental behavior just based on a point I was making ? Oh boy ...

TL;DR : go to last paragraph !

First, we are talking (mainly) about components OC by design with very high consumption. Like this kind of baby (i9-12900K):

Yeah I'm pointing the fact that you behave exactly like the one you're looking down on : using jets, yacht, putting gold everywhere, wasting food/water/energy. Those 1% f*ckers who don't play by the same rules. I'm pointing the fact that people don't even see what they are doing at their scale. The first thing they see is their bank account and comfort, like if they could eat and drink some dollars while hearing the sound of the ATM in the morning, for a nice brand new day.

And what do you do while judging your 1% ? "Meh, they're doing it, why shouldn't I ?".
Using natively OC components to compensate a poor design (Intel/Nvidia mostly those days), is like using a private jet because you can. The scale is different, no need to take that sentence alone. You understood what I'm saying. Using the same power to OC your rig as for the rest of your big electronics cumulated in your house is stupid waste. It's like never closing the tap because water is free or cheap.

Sure you won't save a bird on your own, but being aware of the scale of what you are doing is relevant.
Is changing all fuel cars to electric ones a good idea ? Nope
Is going full solar the solution ? no and never will.
Does not OC will save the planet ? surely not

I'm not telling you "stop using your car, don't using a hairdryer" or some ecologic bullshit. I pointed out, in response to someone telling me "hey it's irrelevant because you have a dishwasher", that no, a dishwasher doesn't compete in terms of energy consumption to a PC.
A PC, regarding energy consumption is one of the top most electric consumer in a household and an uncontrolled increase should yeah count on your bill, but first you should think :"Do I need to waste that much energy for the same result ?".

Here are some things you do for the environment you don't even see :
- don't go full speed seeing the red light and go smoothly to stop
- closing the tap when not in use
- closing your windows in winter
- not walking naked in winter at home to prevent you from heating a lot
- opening windows in summer on both sides to create a draft
- closing your fridge
- turn off the TV if you're not home
etc.

See ? You can do the opposite, like staying naked at home in winter, while having tap water open, you know, just in case ; all that with heaters to the maximum with permanent opened windows " 'cause I need fresh air". And while you're driving, you make sure that your TV is on and you drive like F1 pilot during the whole day !
But you don't do it, because it's stupid.

I don't blame people for wanting a low bill or calm in your room. But dude, if by taking the action of buying only energy-efficient components (I didn't say "the most") instead of taking energy-greedy components without damaging your perfs, why would you something so stupid ?
And what happens next ? Companies will stop making 200W CPU for the same perf as a 100W CPU just because it's branded "Intel". Companies goes where the market is. Like "vote with wallet", it's the same.

This is why ecology is not about blaming the big ones (it's useless for the effort), but educating the small ones (it's easier). If you want to discuss this point of view (I hope that by now you understood I'm not a fanatic of ecology), let's do it by PM to exchange personal opinions.
If you still think that I'm a communist that want to rip off good working people, and blame them, curse them for all Earth problem, you can keep your thoughts to yourself. I'm done fighting against stupid liberal right/religious fanatics/flat-earthers/etc.


It seems you're not that stupid, so you should understand what I'm saying.

 

[lexluthermiester]

I'm not telling you "stop using your car, don't using a hairdryer" or some ecologic bullshit.

You're not? Are you sure? Because that's what it seems like you're saying.

If you still think that I'm a communist that want to rip off good working people, and blame them, curse them for all Earth problem, you can keep your thoughts to yourself. I'm done fighting against stupid liberal right/religious fanatics/flat-earthers/etc.

This really says a lot. You're making baseless assumptions about those arguing against your positions.

It seems you're not that stupid, so you should understand what I'm saying.

What you're saying is all over the place, idealistically.

 

[R0H1T]

Kind of like how everything we buy is wrapped in plastic, which has caused entire parts of the sea to die and become anoxic, and is disrupting the endocrine system and other chemistry of every human being and living thing with horrific effects that nobody can get funding to study... but you should be banned from getting plastic bags at the supermarket or when you take out food, possibly the most useful application of plastic to normal folks... pay no attention to the other 99% of it. Same thing as how the EVs output thousands of kg of terrible toxic waste in both production and disposal, and typically run on electricity generated from fossil fuels, but somehow your measly tax dollars have to subsidize the richest man in the world's perpetually unprofitable EV business because it's mandatory to save the environment. I think you need to readjust your priorities, and yes, cut out the virtue signaling also. Your damage to "the earth" is practically identical to those you're looking down on and scolding, and you're blaming common working people for something caused principally by major industries, whose executives love to shift the blame off of the exact way you're doing while they fly their private jets. There are enough far bigger problems to spend a lifetime on.

Then stop buying unnecessary things just for fun, like those PC parts or anything electric really! Heck your clothes & food items are also delivered in some form of plastic across the globe, wanna care about the environment don't return things (for free) just because you don't like it's bluish hue, or when it's 5mm short, or it has that slight scratch on it, or a dent & worst of all the price dropped by $5 the other day OMFG

Real change occurs when people are willing to change their daily routine/lives not by some illusionary revolution that everyone wants but none are willing to sacrifice their everyday comforts for! The for profit companies out there, world governments, businesses, powerful individuals, leaders are all selling you desires, your "greed" in some form or another ~ it's really up to you to resist it & mould this world to the best of your abilities.

If there is going to be change, real change, it will have to work its way from the bottom up, from the people themselves. That's how change happens.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Then stop buying unnecessary things just for fun, like those PC parts or anything electric really!

Push off!

Real change occurs when people are willing to change their daily routine/lives not by some illusionary revolution that everyone wants but none are willing to sacrifice their everyday comforts for!

You assume we have to make that sacrifice to make a positive difference, which is VERY narrow minded.

If there is going to be change, real change, it will have to work its way from the bottom up, from the people themselves. That's how change happens.

Incorrect. That is PART of how change happens. That is but one(1) variable in a very large and complex equation.

 

[ghazi]

Then stop buying unnecessary things just for fun, like those PC parts or anything electric really! Heck your clothes & food items are also delivered in some form of plastic across the globe, wanna care about the environment don't return things (for free) just because you don't like it's bluish hue, or when it's 5mm short, or it has that slight scratch on it, or a dent & worst of all the price dropped by $5 the other day OMFG

Real change occurs when people are willing to change their daily routine/lives not by some illusionary revolution that everyone wants but none are willing to sacrifice their everyday comforts for! The for profit companies out there, world governments, businesses, powerful individuals, leaders are all selling you desires, your "greed" in some form or another ~ it's really up to you to resist it & mould this world to the best of your abilities.

If there is going to be change, real change, it will have to work its way from the bottom up, from the people themselves. That's how change happens.

OK bro, let's deindustrialize. I'll be waiting out in the woods for you to show up.

First, we are talking (mainly) about components OC by design with very high consumption. Like this kind of baby (i9-12900K):

Yeah, not a great trend, and not because of the "environmental impact," but because it's a crude and self-perpetuating method to mask stagnation. What difference does it make to "the environment" when people would OC anyway?

Yeah I'm pointing the fact that you behave exactly like the one you're looking down on : using jets, yacht, putting gold everywhere, wasting food/water/energy. Those 1% f*ckers who don't play by the same rules. I'm pointing the fact that people don't even see what they are doing at their scale. The first thing they see is their bank account and comfort, like if they could eat and drink some dollars while hearing the sound of the ATM in the morning, for a nice brand new day.
....................................................
I'm not telling you "stop using your car, don't using a hairdryer" or some ecologic bullshit. I pointed out, in response to someone telling me "hey it's irrelevant because you have a dishwasher", that no, a dishwasher doesn't compete in terms of energy consumption to a PC.
A PC, regarding energy consumption is one of the top most electric consumer in a household and an uncontrolled increase should yeah count on your bill, but first you should think :"Do I need to waste that much energy for the same result ?".

I'm not looking down on anyone for anything but hypocrisy and malice. 100W, 200W means absolutely nothing. If you're so concerned buy some solar panels to make up for it (and don't forget their ecological impact, or all the toxic chemicals in them...) I can also tell you with certainty that my PC is a small fraction of my power bill and I don't even use air conditioning, not sure how in the hell someone's PC becomes half their bill.

Here are some things you do for the environment you don't even see :

That's a pretty silly list. But how about this, I don't go around littering plastic in parks and whatnot. Why is your "doing things for the environment" limited to lowering energy consumption, again, by less than a billionth of a percent? It's all about you and I making some stupid sacrifice that makes no difference. Why don't you put your effort toward real problems and real solutions?

Companies will stop making 200W CPU for the same perf as a 100W CPU just because it's branded "Intel".

Nobody in this industry ever cared about power and heat when it gave a hand against stiff competition, never.

This is why ecology is not about blaming the big ones (it's useless for the effort), but educating the small ones (it's easier). If you want to discuss this point of view (I hope that by now you understood I'm not a fanatic of ecology), let's do it by PM to exchange personal opinions.
If you still think that I'm a communist that want to rip off good working people, and blame them, curse them for all Earth problem, you can keep your thoughts to yourself. I'm done fighting against stupid liberal right/religious fanatics/flat-earthers/etc.

Oh yes, in recognition of our practical inability to actually stop environmental damage, ecology focuses on pontificating to people who overclock their computer or drive a fast car because it's easier to just virtue signal and complain about their stupid "carbon footprint" causing the temperature to rise by 1x10^-20 Celsius and contributing to the 100 year flood that arrived a decade ahead of schedule. Useless to try to get the same industries who started using plastic in everything in the first place despite everyone complaining it was garbage to find alternatives, for just one example. There's thousands of toxic understudied industrial chemicals and little chunks of plastic flowing through your veins and you're complaining about some guy overclocking his computer.

I don't see any need to further discuss this, you've made your opinion clear that you feel the energy consumption of a PC matters, and I've made mine clear that I don't. Nobody said you're a "communist who wants to rip off good working people", but as you should know the discourse is extremely disproportionately influenced by moneyed interests, and your arguments ultimately come from and play into those interests; this kind of attitude helps allow for the actual continuing destruction of the natural environment while deluding you into thinking you're doing something about it.

 

[AusWolf]

Then stop buying unnecessary things just for fun, like those PC parts or anything electric really! Heck your clothes & food items are also delivered in some form of plastic across the globe, wanna care about the environment don't return things (for free) just because you don't like it's bluish hue, or when it's 5mm short, or it has that slight scratch on it, or a dent & worst of all the price dropped by $5 the other day OMFG

Real change occurs when people are willing to change their daily routine/lives not by some illusionary revolution that everyone wants but none are willing to sacrifice their everyday comforts for! The for profit companies out there, world governments, businesses, powerful individuals, leaders are all selling you desires, your "greed" in some form or another ~ it's really up to you to resist it & mould this world to the best of your abilities.

If there is going to be change, real change, it will have to work its way from the bottom up, from the people themselves. That's how change happens.

Why can't we have our fun and think about the environment at the same time? Why does it always have to come down to some kind of self-sacrifice for the greater good? What greater good is there anyway? What's the point in living if you don't actually live? Why is it always the common Joe that has to change, and not large corporations and governments? Who are they to tell me the ways I have to change anyway? Do you think they're not continuing their wasteful lives while I'm obediently changing mine? Will people stop buying Ferraris and Lamborghinis if I ride a bike to work?

Some questions to think about before shifting the blame for environmental destruction onto folks who have very little to do with it.

Another one: don't you think that I'm actually helping the environment by buying those "unnecessary PC parts just for fun" and saving them from ending up in landfill?

 

[R0H1T]

OK bro, let's deindustrialize. I'll be waiting out in the woods for you to show up.

It's not easy but if we try we can make some/major difference with the point I emphasized. Of course you can choose to ignore the elephant in the room but then don't point fingers at others!

Why can't we have our fun and think about the environment at the same time? Why does it always have to come down to some kind of self-sacrifice for the greater good? What greater good is there anyway? What's the point in living if you don't actually live? Why is it always the common Joe that has to change, and not large corporations and governments? Who are they to tell me the ways I have to change anyway? Do you think they're not continuing their wasteful lives while I'm obediently changing mine? Will people stop buying Ferraris and Lamborghinis if I ride a bike to work?

Some questions to think about before shifting the blame for environmental destruction onto folks who have very little to do with it.

Another one: don't you think that I'm actually helping the environment by buying those "unnecessary PC parts just for fun" and saving them from ending up in landfill?

There's two separate points I made in there ~ cutting down on (overall) consumption which directly contributes to a better environment & sure I was also using an extreme (worse?) case scenario to point out how that disproportionately affects the earth! Then the wasteful use of energy or other resources ~

wanna care about the environment don't return things (for free) just because you don't like it's bluish hue, or when it's 5mm short, or it has that slight scratch on it, or a dent & worst of all the price dropped by $5 the other day OMFG

You can't tell me that the avg Joe isn't responsible for this sh!t because they sure as f***** hell are! The billionaires don't return things just because they get it on sale $5 or $50 less a day/week later! That's on your avg Joe, likewise for a lot of little things that impact the environment in a big way when we consider the billion plus middle class across the globe.

That's where you're wrong, you do impact the environment & so do I besides anyone thinking our actions don't matter is just burying their heads in the sand.

Truthfully if you aren't making use of these things say weekly or even monthly then you sure aren't helping! Also how did you end up burying brand new stuff off the shelves into a landfill

 

[AusWolf]

You can't tell me that the avg Joe isn't responsible for this sh!t because they sure as f***** hell are! The billionaires don't return things just because they get it on sale $5 or $50 less a day/week later! That's on your avg Joe, likewise for a lot of little things that impact the environment in a big way when we consider the billion plus middle class across the globe.

You said ...

Then stop buying unnecessary things just for fun, like those PC parts or anything electric really! Heck your clothes & food items are also delivered in some form of plastic across the globe, wanna care about the environment don't return things (for free) just because you don't like it's bluish hue, or when it's 5mm short, or it has that slight scratch on it, or a dent & worst of all the price dropped by $5 the other day OMFG

Should I feel sorry that I expect my brand new item to be in good condition? I paid for it with my own money, I worked for it, so of course I want it to be OK. If it's not, then the hell I'm going to return it! That's what the warranty is for. Then it's the store's and manufacturer's responsibility to deal with it in an environmentally friendly way. They can salvage the good parts, recycle the damaged ones and the packaging and make a new item. Or they can throw it all into the bin. Not my problem. They should change their ways of dealing with returns, not me, if we want to care for the environment. Not returning damaged, or poor quality products actually does more damage because nobody will buy it from you when you're done using it, so it'll definitely end up in landfill at some point.

As for plastic packaging, who the hell asked for it in a world where paper and cardboard do exist? If they want me to use less plastic, then they should send me less plastic in the first place.

Truthfully if you aren't making use of these things say weekly or even monthly then you sure aren't helping! Also how did you end up burying brand new stuff off the shelves into a landfill

Sorry, I didn't specify that I was only talking about myself. Honestly, we have second-hand stores in the UK, we also do carboot (flea market) sales where you can get rid of old, unwanted items without throwing them out. I tend to visit these from time to time to hunt for old PC parts that are still usable, put them together in a system and sell them. I currently have 5 computers at home. These parts would have ended up in landfill if I (or someone else) hadn't bought them. But now, they'll end up in the living room as a movie watching PC, or in someone else's home. Of course, you can't escape the risk of buying something that's not working, but for a couple of pounds, I don't mind, and at least I can take it to a recycling centre instead of throwing it into the bin. If you look at HTPC1 and 2 in my signature, nearly half of those parts are gifts from friends or used items from ebay, second-hand stores and/or carboot sales.

 

[R0H1T]

You said ...

Which was in response to ~

Friend, you are not doing a single thing to save the environment by lowering the collective electricity usage of your country by less than a billionth of one percent. This is in large part a scam to divert attention from major industrial pollution. Kind of like how everything we buy is wrapped in plastic, which has caused entire parts of the sea to die and become anoxic, and is disrupting the endocrine system and other chemistry of every human being and living thing with horrific effects that nobody can get funding to study... but you should be banned from getting plastic bags at the supermarket or when you take out food, possibly the most useful application of plastic to normal folks... pay no attention to the other 99% of it. Same thing as how the EVs output thousands of kg of terrible toxic waste in both production and disposal, and typically run on electricity generated from fossil fuels, but somehow your measly tax dollars have to subsidize the richest man in the world's perpetually unprofitable EV business because it's mandatory to save the environment. I think you need to readjust your priorities, and yes, cut out the virtue signaling also. Your damage to "the earth" is practically identical to those you're looking down on and scolding, and you're blaming common working people for something caused principally by major industries, whose executives love to shift the blame off of the exact way you're doing while they fly their private jets. There are enough far bigger problems to spend a lifetime on.

Which is not a scam, it's a direct result of human consumption of energy & resources is it not?

And we can all live in that Lalaland where our "measly actions" don't affect anyone! I mean already a billion plus (un)concerned humans think that way

I paid for it with my own money, I worked for it, so of course I want it to be OK. If it's not, then the hell I'm going to return it!

Good, then stop bickering about the environment because you choose to ignore the direct impact of some of your actions!

That's what the warranty is for. Then it's the store's and manufacturer's responsibility to deal with it in an environmentally friendly way.

You know full well how easy return policies of major online retailers are exploited! Yes it's not always the user's fault but they aren't blameless ~ you're making it sound as if woe is me, it's all the evil bag bad greedy corporations fault.

They should change their ways of dealing with returns, not me, if we want to care for the environment.

People should stop exploiting them! Returning things for as trivial as $5 price difference is not the evil corporations fault it's individual greed, on a mass scale.

Not returning damaged, or poor quality products actually does more damage because nobody will buy it from you when you're done using it, so it'll definitely end up in landfill at some point.

Some damages can be catastrophic, others are not. You know I specified the ones that are mostly harmless or cosmetic.

We control only what we do, if aren't willing to change ourselves we cannot & should not point fingers at others! I'm not millionaire nor a billionaire so I can't speak from their perspective but I don't usually return things unless it's non trivial, heck I also order clothes or shoes usually a size up because even if they're slightly loose I can wear them. I've never returned anything due to price difference though that's due in part because Amazon or Flipkart doesn't allow such returns.

Lowering our overall impact on the environment is rather easy, you see this?

The biggest impact on the environment is simply reducing (consumption) now admittedly this is a double edged sword because driving that down will also kill the economies world over. But wasteful energy or resource plundering is something I can't condone, no matter even if it's in self interest. Sure if Amazon, eBay, Newegg et al really did some evil thing then burn them to the ground, in my view returning items for anything but major issues for the stuff you bought should really be avoided. You can ask for a partial refund instead, that's usually in the best interest of everyone involved.

 

[AusWolf]

Which was in response to ~

Which is not a scam, it's a direct result of human consumption of energy & resources is it not?

The thing is that human consumption doesn't directly equal domestic consumption. You (general "you") can blame me all you want for running my CPU at a 200 W limit (it's nowhere near that value in games, but that's another story) while some countries are essentially running on coal. Or you (general "you" again) can blame me for using a petrol (gasoline) car when the whole logistics sector still uses diesel trucks that don't even come close to doing 10 miles to the gallon.

Good, then stop bickering about the environment because you choose to ignore the direct impact of some of your actions!

Like I said, it's not my actions. Just because I return a faulty item, it doesn't mean that it needs to be thrown into a bin. It can be recycled. It's not my choice if a company decides to ignore this fact. One shouldn't put up with an inferior product just because a company is too lazy to have a proper environmental policy in place. The blame is on them, not me.

Edit: Besides, most companies refurbish and resell used items, either directly, or indirectly through other companies. Making up a couple percent of the original price is still better than nothing.

You know full well how easy return policies of major online retailers are exploited! Yes it's not always the user's fault but they aren't blameless ~ you're making it sound as if woe is me, it's all the evil bag bad greedy corporations fault.

You answered this point for yourself:

I've never returned anything due to price difference though that's due in part because Amazon or Flipkart doesn't allow such returns.

The same way a company can implement a proper environmental policy to deal with returns, they can also have a proper returns policy that specifies under which condition items can be returned. Actually, the loudest mouths of all, that is governments, could also specify what a returns and environmental policy should include. But they don't because they're lazy. It's much easier to shift the blame to the average person who only complies with all the shitty policies out there.

People should stop exploiting them! Returning things for as trivial as $5 price difference is not the evil corporations fault it's individual greed, on a mass scale.

Go tell them! I'm sure some reactions won't be as mild as mine.

Some damages can be catastrophic, others are not. You know I specified the ones that are mostly harmless or cosmetic.

Personally, I'm fine with minor cosmetic damage, too, but you know how much it still impacts an item's resale value.

We control only what we do, if aren't willing to change ourselves we cannot & should not point fingers at others!

Yet, this is exactly what you're doing.

The biggest impact on the environment is simply reducing (consumption) now admittedly this is a double edged sword because driving that down will also kill the economies world over.

And that's the whole thing. Our whole economy is centred around consumption (wasteful or otherwise). How is this my fault? My consumption is already reduced to necessities and hobbies, which I'm not willing to give up. If I want a steak, I'm gonna buy a steak. Whether it's wrapped in plastic, or paper, or whatever, I don't care. Why should it be me who doesn't buy the steak because of all the plastic (that I didn't ask for in the first place) instead of the store wrapping it in environmentally friendly packaging?

 

[R0H1T]

The blame is on them, not me.

The blame is on everyone ~ faceless companies/e-tailers/individuals/governments & really all of us! This isn't an us vs them issue, if we aren't in this together we'll never solve this.

You answered this point for yourself:

Almost, I also said that the choice to exploit these policies, with the specific examples, I gave is up to individuals! If you choose to be greedy all the time then you can't really expect any meaningful change in the ways of the world.

Go tell them! I'm sure some reactions won't be as mild as mine.

Yeah f*** them, anyone telling me they did a good/smart thing by buying an item cheaper a day/week after their previous return should go pound sand in the Sahara

Personally, I'm fine with minor cosmetic damage, too, but you know how much it still impacts an item's resale value.

Sadly yes but there isn't much of a resale market, especially for PC components, in this part of the world. I just keep stuff from 2 decades back in the limited free space I have.

Yet, this is exactly what you're doing.

I'm simply debating some of the ways we can reduce the big issue of an impending environmental disaster upon all of us. You can choose to ignore it or incorporate some of them in your life.

Why should it be me who doesn't buy the steak instead of the store wrapping it in environmentally friendly packaging?

You're willing to pay $5 more for it? If so just ask the nearby store to do that, I'm sure they'll probably oblige till you continue buying steaks from them.

Also some of the replies in this thread are just like the excuses miners use to justify their actions or impact on the environment!

 

[AusWolf]

The blame is on everyone ~ faceless companies/e-tailers/individuals/governments & really all of us! This isn't an us vs them issue, if we aren't in this together we'll never solve this.

But we're not in this together. The average person constantly gets told to reduce consumption, buy electric cars, eat sunshine and fresh air, and all kinds of other crap, while you literally hear nothing about how corporations and governments are dealing with the issue. All you hear is fancy slogans like "net zero by 2050" or this "reduce, reuse, recycle" banner that you posted, but these don't mean anything without explanation. The problem is that you and I have to explain our actions, but governments and corporations don't. They are telling us what is good for the environment. Communication is one-way. If we want real change, this has to change first.

Almost, I also said that the choice to exploit these policies, with the specific examples, I gave is up to individuals! If you choose to be greedy all the time then you can't really expect any meaningful change in the ways of the world.

People exploit policies because they are shit (the policies - not the people, although...). Why are corporations allowed to have such crappy policies in the first place?

Yeah f*** them, anyone telling me they did a good/smart thing by buying an item cheaper a day/week after their previous return should go pound sand in the Sahara

Although that item probably went back onto the store shelf either as "opened" or "refurbished" stock. Oh well.

You're willing to pay $5 more for it? If so just ask the nearby store to do that, I'm sure they'll probably oblige till you continue buying steaks from them.

Also some of the replies in this thread are just like the excuses miners use to justify their actions or impact on the environment!

I'm willing to pay more for it if I don't have any other option. Again, nothing (apart from laziness) prevents corporations from having good environmental policies in place, and nothing (apart from laziness) prevents governments from enforcing corporations to implement those policies.

It's just like plastic bags. They used to be free, but now they cost anywhere between .10p and .50p. Did it stop anyone from buying them? Not really. We just pay more with no positive effect on the environment whatsoever. If we only had paper bags, on the other hand...

 

[ghazi]

It's not easy but if we try we can make some/major difference with the point I emphasized. Of course you can choose to ignore the elephant in the room but then don't point fingers at others!


There's two separate points I made in there ~ cutting down on (overall) consumption which directly contributes to a better environment & sure I was also using an extreme (worse?) case scenario to point out how that disproportionately affects the earth! Then the wasteful use of energy or other resources ~

You can't tell me that the avg Joe isn't responsible for this sh!t because they sure as f***** hell are! The billionaires don't return things just because they get it on sale $5 or $50 less a day/week later! That's on your avg Joe, likewise for a lot of little things that impact the environment in a big way when we consider the billion plus middle class across the globe.

That's where you're wrong, you do impact the environment & so do I besides anyone thinking our actions don't matter is just burying their heads in the sand.

Truthfully if you aren't making use of these things say weekly or even monthly then you sure aren't helping! Also how did you end up burying brand new stuff off the shelves into a landfill

I honestly have no idea what you're really on about. You're telling us over and over that we can make a major difference for the environment by not returning things?? Good for me I guess since I can't remember the last time I returned something? What a bizarre fixation. If you want to pretend your whining and virtue signaling is saving the planet go ahead, don't demean and belittle others who don't partake in your shallow and vain idealism. You keep saying "don't point fingers at others" but what are you doing? The so called "solutions" you propose are wholly inadequate and do not even approach the root of the problem, just vacuous motions designed to make you feel better.

 

[R0H1T]

People exploit policies because they are shit (the policies - not the people, although...). Why are corporations allowed to have such crappy policies in the first place?

Crappy in what way? If these companies don't have a good/acceptable return policy then people will bitch even more & take their business elsewhere. If you go buy a CPU cooler in a B&M store get home, driving back 50kms, see a bent fin when you open that package what will you do next?

1) ask for a full refund & return the product?
2) ask for partial refund keep the product?
3) ask for full refund & still keep the product?

We'll just assume the store will comply with any of these

Although that item probably went back onto the store shelf either as "opened" or "refurbished" stock. Oh well.

That's the thing, a lot of these products cannot be resold. In fact probably a majority of them, I've worked with small & relatively large storefronts on some of India's big retail marketplaces & you simply cannot sell a big chunk of the returned products. I'm also counting places like US/UK because it's the same everywhere!

I'm willing to pay more for it if I don't have any other option.

Tada we have a winner. It's all down to the money all the time, this is what Kevin also says on Shark Tank

The biggest issue today, aside from inertia & general human nature, is that no one's willing to loosen their purse strings for a better environment. They always want someone else, or the collective, to bear that cost!

Now I'll go a step further & say that the governments & corporations should step in & foot a major part of the bill transitioning us away from the old environmentally degrading ways. But we will also have to foot some of the bill, in fact a large part of it especially where volumes can be low.

But we're not in this together. The average person constantly gets told to reduce consumption, buy electric cars, eat sunshine and fresh air, and all kinds of other crap, while you literally hear nothing about how corporations and governments are dealing with the issue. All you hear is fancy slogans like "net zero by 2050" or this "reduce, reuse, recycle" banner that you posted, but these don't mean anything without explanation. The problem is that you and I have to explain our actions, but governments and corporations don't. They are telling us what is good for the environment. Communication is one-way. If we want real change, this has to change first.

Let me ask you another hypothetical? What stops Nvidia selling a 4090Ti with 600W TDP ~

1) Priced $2000
2) 8GB VRAM
3) Users never buying it

It's not a trick question neither is it a multiple choice one!

I honestly have no idea what you're really on about. You're telling us over and over that we can make a major difference for the environment by not returning things?? Good for me I guess since I can't remember the last time I returned something? What a bizarre fixation. If you want to pretend your whining and virtue signaling is saving the planet go ahead, don't demean and belittle others who don't partake in your shallow and vain idealism. You keep saying "don't point fingers at others" but what are you doing? The so called "solutions" you propose are wholly inadequate and do not even approach the root of the problem, just vacuous motions designed to make you feel better.

Because you chose to ignore the impact humans have on the environment, the biggest impact is by billions of humans living every day life on wasting energy/resources that could be better utilized elsewhere! I only have BLDC fans in my home, they consume anywhere between 5-35 watts depending on speed, about 50-70% less than normal fans. A 4 energy star rated refrigerator, no AC, only LED lights & pretty much anything else is 4 energy star or above. I'm doing something about it, I'm sure I can do more & reduce overall impact to a minimum without affecting my quality of life.

I'd prefer others to do something similar but no one's holding a gun to your head & forcing you do things you don't want to, or am I

Yeah you do you & keep fantasizing how changing anything but your daily lifestyle, or convenience like I said, will make an impact to the environment. Keep waving that smoking gun

It's funny how when you go talking about actions it's always you (i.e. the other person) first & then when that someone points out some of the actions they've taken the rest of you just go ~
brrr I don't care so leave me alone, I wanna live life my own way btw I also love talking dreaming about saving the environment, but I don't wanna change my daily routine/lifestyle

 

[X71200]

Heat is the problem on my end, I mean I got an AC but a massive amount of heat dumped in my room is still a problem especially with the noise isolation. Of course, other bits don't help either. Such as bigger and more components causing more static on the plugs ending up with white noise when I try to play instruments.

Though this thread seems to have taken a turn into the "hurr durr muh big PC pull big powah - you should care about the environment!!". Was expecting this since this is a tech forum with gaming rigs, though.

 

[Sipu]

Answered yes(noise) but i rock a gaming laptop that makes airplane noises. Hmmm....

 

[lilhasselhoffer]

So, kooks of both sides ignored...does a product that returns slightly more at a much higher cost really concern me?

No. Why is simple...I made that mistake with the 3930k. It was going to be a hexacore processor, have SATA 3 ports, have hyperthreading for 12 logical cores, and be absolutely great. I was young, and bought into this stupid hype. I saved up, went to a Microcenter, bought it in the release month at about MSRP...and discovered the issues.

Only a few of the 6 SATA ports were 3. Most of the extended ports were actually run by a third party controller chip. The thing overclocked on high end boards, but it sucked power. Speaking of, water cooling was basically a requirement. Two boards later, and I had something passable. It's run for a decade...but now the "budget friendly" 5600x is actually outperforming it in every way.


After such a burn from the halo products I just stopped.

There are always going to be people out there who want the biggest numbers, cost be damned. That said, they are the exceptions to the rule. I'll tell you that if you look at the actual market these products are way out there on the sales bell curve...and them existing isn't a bad thing. It is wasteful, but hopefully people plowing money into them is going to support my next purchase being all the better in performance and efficiency because they were willing to spend the money.

Heck, isn't this the story of modern Intel/AMD? Intel was good with making the halo, had no competition so just made more wasteful products that did one or two things the best, and now AMD is actually competing again.

 

[the54thvoid]

Temporarily closed for cleaning.

Reopen. If your post is gone, it was because it was crap, overly argumentative, off topic, or otherwise not conducive to the topic at hand.

I could have gone back farther but I ran out of willpower.

Stop fighting. Stop shit posting, and stop making it personal.

 

[cmmw]

Yes, I care. (EMI emission) is affecting everyone mentally/physically at different levels.

 

[geniekid]

I voted "Yes (noise)" but all of the yes reasons concern me to some extent. Since I started building my own computers I've always ended up with whatever the top-end GPU is at the time, but coming up on this update cycle I find myself - for the first time in 15 years - considering a slightly lower tier GPU. There's always going to be a premium in both price and power consumption when you get to the top-end, but it feels like the power premium on the 3090 Ti is just too much.

 

[lexluthermiester]

but it feels like the power premium on the 3090 Ti is just too much.

Agreed. And AMD's new 6950XT follows right along with that..

 

[maxx2575]

even with my current build the room gets hot whenever I have it on long enough.