Intel LGA1851 to Succeed LGA1700, Probably Retain Cooler Compatibility

[ZoneDymo]

God, I'm so f****** tired of hearing this from every orifice on the Internet specially from AMD fans. Now let's talk about reality, shall we?

1. Intel has had two CPUs generations per socket for over a decade now, this is not new, OK, amigo?
2. Intel is not a charity and their chipset business is their good source of income.
3. No one forces you to buy into the Intel platform.
4. Absolute most people out there do not upgrade their CPUs so often, nowadays people tend to stick to their PCs for at least 3-7 years if not longer. We are not at the end of the 90s, the early 00s when CPUs became twice as fast in fewer than 36 months. There's absolutely no need to upgrade your CPU so often. Most new AAA games, we are all CPU enthusiasts here, aren't we?, are heavily GPU bound, not CPU bound. You play competitive 1st person shooters? At 1080p CPUs from 3-5 years ago provide FPSs above 250. Again, no need to upgrade to anything new yet.
5. Almost all the screaming about Intel switching sockets comes from ... AMD fans who for some reasons don't even represent the majority of x86 users (Intel: 68.03% as of May, 2022). Are you OK? Need help?

In no way I vindicate what Intel does - I just do not care. They don't kill people, actively destroy/pollute the environment, don't start wars and don't employ slaves. And they are no longer a monopoly though I'm not a fan of a duopoly (which is not so different in terms of proper competition) in the x86 market but that's what there is. Cut them some slack, OK?

Im sorry but this is just silly Birdie.....
You are sharing your opinion on how others should not share their opinion.....

Intel is not a charity...yeah ok? so what?
We are hating on Intel for what they do, and we can express that opinion on this forum which is what they are doing....

No one is forcing you to buy into intel.....yeah ok, again...so what?
We are hating on Intel for what they do, and we can express that opinion on this forum which is what they are doing....

I mean what really is going through your mind when you made this post honestly?

"man I cant believe these possible consumers and target audience are sharing their dissatisfaction with a company that wants to profit of of them, they should just be quiet about it and let others not know that perhaps there are better ways of doing business for a consumer"

...and you are the consumer yourself, you are weirdly putting yourself out there as if you are intel whom indeed rather not have anything negative said about their practices as that might influence sales, but you yourself said "you dont have to buy into the intel ecosystem" implying everyone is aware of the problems and alternatives and thus nobody has to speak about it....

idk man, again, posts like yours are just so weird.

and on that last part.....ermm they were slapped with multiple fines for anticompetitive (illegal) practices and they have a weird history of fighting everyhting for years which costs way more then just pay for they obvious wrong doing soooo yeah.

Its also an odd line drawing thing you are doing, just because its not as extreme as killing and slavery...its all fine?
Why is that, might as well say "a dictator is allowed to kill others, they are not a charity and the war business is a good source of political power, nobody forces you to be their friend"
See how silly that is?


now on the actual topic, idc really, I agree with you that people when they upgrade, tend to upgrade more then just the cpu because everything advances forward so its kinda needed.

 

[Bomby569]

Most people don't upgrade every year or even every 2 or 3 years, this is a non issue that only impacts early adopters and those should have money to spare and wouldn't want a old gen board anyway. This is the same discussion over and over.

I still prefer the AMD approach but this is a non issue.

 

[Deleted member 24505]

You don't care, birdie doesn't care, your vocalism says otherwise.

If my opinion is that board swaps are a pain why should I care about what you or birdie thinks.
Or what the majority does.

Doesn't change My opinion.

Regardless of where that opinion now pidgin holes me.

Why do you think I care? I don't care if anyone likes my opinion or not either.

Board swaps being a pain depends on how often you change setups. If you are loaded and can drop £700+ at will for a new setup, why would you care. Only people who can't afford it will be bothered. I can't really afford it but still don't care, as I keep my setups long enough to be worthwhile to me.

Maybe anyone who is bothered by the way Intel does this should stick to AMD and have a nice new CPU in a old board.

If my opinion is that board swaps are a pain why should I care about what you or birdie thinks. So why even reply to my comment then.

 

[ghazi]

Not really the sockets, but all these goddamn "gens" are giving me a major headache now - we just barely got 12th gen out the door and now we have to load 13th, 14th, 15th into our consciousness and anticipate the 16th, all still using this same ridiculous "Lake" nomenclature (Intel is going to have to move on to ponds eventually). It was fine until 10th gen, two digits is too much. Intel, you have the most expensive marketing department in the entire industry. Come up with a new goddamn brand for your CPUs for the first time in 15+ years will you. Might actually make people excited for them again.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

Why do you think I care? I don't care if anyone likes my opinion or not either.

Board swaps being a pain depends on how often you change setups. If you are loaded and can drop £700+ at will for a new setup, why would you care. Only people who can't afford it will be bothered. I can't really afford it but still don't care, as I keep my setups long enough to be worthwhile to me.

Maybe anyone who is bothered by the way Intel does this should stick to AMD and have a nice new CPU in a old board.

If my opinion is that board swaps are a pain why should I care about what you or birdie thinks. So why even reply to my comment then.

I said you don't care?!.

But you are here dismissing opinions as irrelevant,as is birdie.

Because they don't align with yours?!.

 

[ppn]

No surprises here, ever since the socket 473 they keep doing the same. Always wanting to add and subtract pins.
It would be ideal if they overprovision 1000 pins for future use for 64 PCIe and quad channel, but nobody can predict that and the motherboard vendors need planned obsolescence to exist to sustain their profits.

There are more CPUs going to ewaste than motherboards, since there are more of it. Not enough motherboards for all the CPUs in circulation. That is why the chinese makers recycle chipsets for old sockets and xeons and such.

Not really the sockets, but all these goddamn "gens" are giving me a major headache now …

You should see the bates 4000 movie, hilarious

So contrary to certain rumors leaked MLID, MTL-s and ARL-s will use LGA 1851 instead of 2551 ?

BGA 2551

How can you possibly mistake BGA for LGA.
The ball grid is made with balls, so the contacts look very circular, and for the land grid the contacts are elongated and tilted.

 

[maxfly]

Yay! Lets fight over socket longevity...again and again and again. The gift that keeps on giving, Intel vs AMD anything
It's a good thing we geeks are the only ones that care. Wars have been started for less!

 

[aQi]

A! Great. A new socket. So people buying Raptor Lake CPUs wouldn't be able to upgrade to the next gen of Intel CPUs.

Its an old story being repeated. 2 chipsets and 2 generations per socket.

 

[john_]

God, I'm so f****** tired of hearing this from every orifice on the Internet specially from AMD fans. Now let's talk about reality, shall we?

1. Intel has had two CPUs generations per socket for over a decade now, this is not new, OK, amigo?
2. Intel is not a charity and their chipset business is their good source of income.
3. No one forces you to buy into the Intel platform.
4. Absolute most people out there do not upgrade their CPUs so often, nowadays people tend to stick to their PCs for at least 3-7 years if not longer. We are not at the end of the 90s, the early 00s when CPUs became twice as fast in fewer than 36 months. There's absolutely no need to upgrade your CPU so often. Most new AAA games, we are all CPU enthusiasts here, aren't we?, are heavily GPU bound, not CPU bound. You play competitive 1st person shooters? At 1080p CPUs from 3-5 years ago provide FPSs above 250. Again, no need to upgrade to anything new yet.
5. Almost all the screaming about Intel switching sockets comes from ... AMD fans who for some reasons don't even represent the majority of x86 users (Intel: 68.03% as of May, 2022). Are you OK? Need help?

In no way I vindicate what Intel does - I just do not care. They don't kill people, actively destroy/pollute the environment, don't start wars and don't employ slaves. And they are no longer a monopoly though I'm not a fan of a duopoly (which is not so different in terms of proper competition) in the x86 market but that's what there is. Cut them some slack, OK?

1. Not an argument amigo. Except if you are an upset representative of Intel seeing that you still have to defend Intel's business plan after so many years.
2. Not an argument amigo, except if you are an Intel shareholder. (By the way, I am an Intel shareholder)*
3. Not an argument amigo, it's a completely irrelevant comment.
4. You sabotage yourself amigo. Saying that people keep their systems for 3-7 years is an argument in favor of offering more CPU generations to the owner of a motherboard. And AM4 shows that someone CAN have meaningful upgrade options after 3-7 years, options that can offer over 100% performance in multitasking (5950X) or in games (5800X3D).
5. The only one screaming here is you because we have the nerve to point at an obvious fact. That buyers of Raptor Lake CPUs wouldn't be able to upgrade to something newer.

You do seem to want to vindicate what Intel does and it does looks like that you do care.

And by the way. Forcing people to replace equipment, because there isn't an upgrade path longer than 2 gens, does translate to pollution. All companies pollute with their choices, it's just that some pollute more when they decide that a particular part will lose it's value faster.





*But I am also a customer.

 

[Gica]

Any purchaser of Rocket lake and z590 that wanted to upgrade to alder lake has e-waste as z590 (lga1200) was abandoned in 6 months. The same will be true for z790 buyers. Someone may be interested in z790 because z690 doesn’t have as standard a pcie5.0 m.2 slot. So someone who wants to use an intel platform with a pcie5.0 drive without an adapter card might consider z790. But z790 and lga1700/1800 apparently have no longevity and will be abandoned within 12 months for lga1851.

11600K & Z490
10500 & B560
I don't feel the need to upgrade. If so, there is 11900K at the price of i7. For gaming and home use, changing processors every two years is stupid. Waste!

And by the way. Forcing people to replace equipment, because there isn't an upgrade path longer than 2 gens, does translate to pollution. All companies pollute with their choices, it's just that some pollute more when they decide that a particular part will lose it's value faster.





*But I am also a customer.

I just remembered that AMD "found" the 300 chipset compatibility with the 5000 processor only at the end of the series' life. And budget processors, under $ 250, at the same time.

 

[ARF]

5. Almost all the screaming about Intel switching sockets comes from ... AMD fans who

3. No one forces you to buy into the Intel platform.

Yes, this is an Intel disadvantage that pushed the users away from purchasing an Intel platform.
Because the AMD platform is the smarter choice, in the end. Simply said - higher performance (the Ryzen 9 5950X is still the world's fastest mainstream CPU available), lower power consumption (in 105-watt envelope), better motherboard longevity - multi-year support.

 

[john_]

I just remembered that AMD "found" the 300 chipset compatibility with the 5000 processor only at the end of the series' life. And budget processors, under $ 250, at the same time.

Well, they found it.
On the other hand people could find compatibility where Intel couldn't.
Funny isn't it?

 

[Gica]

Yes, this is an Intel disadvantage that pushed the users away from purchasing an Intel platform.
Because the AMD platform is the smarter choice, in the end. Simply said - higher performance (the Ryzen 9 5950X is still the world's fastest mainstream CPU available), lower power consumption (in 105-watt envelope), better motherboard longevity - multi-year support.

12900K is superior to 5950X in terms of consumption and gaming performance. And cheaper. Obviously you also need the top video card to brag about your performance. Of course you can't guess if you have Intel or AMD on your computer, the whole pros and cons discussion boils down to ... I really can't understand what.

 

[hat]

I really don't care anymore. I used to hold AMD in higher regard with platform longevity, but every time I think of physical sockets lasting a long time I wind up thinking about all the different chipsets that are made during the lifetime of these long lived sockets, and looking at flowcharts to find out what's compatible with what, the features you may or may not be missing out on, and so forth... so to me the argument that you can keep a motherboard for a while with these long lived sockets doesn't hold much water when the chipset could be holding you back in many ways.

 

[ARF]

12900K is superior to 5950X in terms of consumption

In another reality. Actually, Intel offers terrible performance per watt, as you can see in the reviews:

Yes, Alder Lake still sucks more power than AMD's Ryzen 5000 series chips, but the arrival of the Intel 7 process does mark a big improvement. As we can see, the Alder Lake chips consume far less power than the Rocket Lake chips — we measured a peak of 238W with the 12900K, while the previous-gen 11900K drew nearly 100W more during the same Blender workload.

Overall, Intel has reduced its power consumption from meme-worthy to an acceptable level. Besides, Alder Lake is much faster than its predecessor, earning it some leeway.

For instance, as you can see in our renders-per-day measurements, the Core i9-12900K and 12600K are both twice as efficient as their predecessors, which is commendable. This lower power consumption results in lower cooling requirements, too.

Intel Core i9-12900K and Core i5-12600K Power Consumption and Efficiency - Intel Core i9-12900K and Core i5-12600K Gaming CPUs Review | Tom's Hardware (tomshardware.com)

 

[john_]

12900K is superior to 5950X in terms of consumption and gaming performance. And cheaper. Obviously you also need the top video card to brag about your performance. Of course you can't guess if you have Intel or AMD on your computer, the whole pros and cons discussion boils down to ... I really can't understand what.

It's superior in SINGLE THREAD performance yes, but not MT. In power consumption, really? Nope. Cheaper? Oh please!

 

[Gica]

Well, they found it.
On the other hand people could find compatibility where Intel couldn't.
Funny isn't it?

And they made happy those who changed their motherboards because they wanted ryzen 5000.
As all modern processors are very powerful in their area, it seems that it would be better for the buyer to avoid buying a new processor due to incompatible motherboard. You can live without running benchmarks.

 

[john_]

I really don't care anymore. I used to hold AMD in higher regard with platform longevity, but every time I think of physical sockets lasting a long time I wind up thinking about all the different chipsets that are made during the lifetime of these long lived sockets, and looking at flowcharts to find out what's compatible with what, the features you may or may not be missing out on, and so forth... so to me the argument that you can keep a motherboard for a while with these long lived sockets doesn't hold much water when the chipset could be holding you back in many ways.

I believe, and excuse me if I am wrong, you probably have much more money compared to the past, so today you value new features more than a cheaper, easier upgrade path.

And they made happy those who changed their motherboards because they wanted ryzen 5000.
As all modern processors are very powerful in their area, it seems that it would be better for the buyer to avoid buying a new processor due to incompatible motherboard. You can live without running benchmarks.

I like how you avoid the Intel example.

 

[Gica]

In another reality. Actually, Intel offers terrible performance per watt, as you can see in the reviews:

You confuse encodings with games. In games, the 12900K is superior to the 5950X in performance / consumption.

 

[john_]

You confuse encodings with games. In games, the 12900K is superior to the 5950X in performance / consumption.

You do realize that games is NOT the only thing people run on their PCs.
But if you insist on games, you should compare with 5800X3D.
Then you will say "but people don't just play games on their PCs and 12900K is better than 5800X3D in encodings".......

 

[Deleted member 24505]

I said you don't care?!.

But you are here dismissing opinions as irrelevant,as is birdie.

Because they don't align with yours?!.

I said said i dont care if anyone like my opinion or not. I did NOT say everyone elses does not matter, unless you can quote me saying that can you?

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, even you. You are the one dismissing mine, by arguing with me about it.

 

[ARF]

You confuse encodings with games. In games, the 12900K is superior to the 5950X in performance / consumption.

AMD's Ryzen 7 5800X3D Draws Less than Half as Much Power than the Intel Core i9-12900KS and Yet Faster in Gaming Workloads | Hardware Times

AMD’s Ryzen 7 5800X3D Draws Less than Half as Much Power than the Intel Core i9-12900KS and Yet Faster in Gaming Workloads​

 

[Deleted member 24505]

Think it might be time this thread was closed for replys, it's turning into the usual Intel vs AMD clusterfuck

 

[birdie]

...

Absolute most people (over 98% I guess, yes, there are hundreds of millions of PCs other there) out there do not upgrade their CPUs every generation. The don't do it every two generations either. Period. End of story. Nothing to discuss. Even the enlightenned tech enthusiasts from TPU do not do that. Those fewer than 2% who upgrade every generation and who are obsessed with the absolute best at all times? They will go buy a new motherboard as well because of better IO options and because they are enthusiasts.

None of my friends who are not tech enthusiasts don't even know about this whole "catastrophe", "Intel ripping people off", "Intel destroying the environment". Some run PCs built over a decade ago and they are 100% content with their PCs performance (the only thing I did was upgrading RAM from 4GB to 8GB, that's it).

/Thread.

Think it might be time this thread was closed for replys, it's turning into the usual Intel vs AMD clusterfuck

I've noticed that people for the past three years have been willing to hate, cry foul and call for "justice" a whole lot more than e.g. a decade ago. Must be COVID-19 or general instability. It's in human nature to be on the lookout for "enemies" when your world is crumbling down. "Intel??? I HATE THEM. THEY REQUIRE PEOPLE TO CHANGE MOTHERBOARDS EVERY TWO CPU GENERATIONS! SCUM! THIEVES! CON ARTISTS! I LAST UPGRADED MY CPU FOUR YEARS AGO BUT ANYWAYS! I HATE THEM!!!!"

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

I said said i dont care if anyone like my opinion or not. I did NOT say everyone elses does not matter, unless you can quote me saying that can you?

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, even you. You are the one dismissing mine, by arguing with me about it.

You don't necessarily dismiss an opinion by arguing against it, I think you and birdie are right in 96% of cases board swaps don't matter.
But that's not to say I don't prefer AMD's longevity of sockets.
Or that my opinion could be altered by yours.

And I DO detest a socket out one year through two short generations.