AMD Confirms Optical-Shrink of Zen 4 to the 4nm Node in its Latest Roadmap

[btarunr]

AMD in its Ryzen 7000 series launch event shared its near-future CPU architecture roadmap, in which it confirmed that the "Zen 4" microarchitecture, currently on the 5 nm foundry node, will see an optical-shrink to the 4 nm process in the near future. This doesn't necessarily indicate a new-generation CCD (CPU complex die) on 4 nm, it could even be a monolithic mobile SoC on 4 nm, or perhaps even "Zen 4c" (high core-count, low clock-speed, for cloud-compute); but it doesn't rule out the possibility of a 4 nm CCD that the company can use across both its enterprise and client processors.

The last time AMD hyphenated two foundry nodes for a single generation of the "Zen" architecture, was with the original (first-generation) "Zen," which debuted on the 14 nm node, but was optically shrunk and refined on the 12 nm node, with the company designating the evolution as "Zen+." The Ryzen 7000-series desktop processors, as well as the upcoming EPYC "Genoa" server processors, will ship with 5 nm CCDs, with AMD ticking it off in its roadmap. Chronologically placed next to it are "Zen 4" with 3D Vertical Cache (3DV Cache), and the "Zen 4c." The company is planning "Zen 4" with 3DV Cache both for its server- and desktop segments. Further down the roadmap, as we approach 2024, we see the company debut the future "Zen 5" architecture on the same 4 nm node, evolving into 3 nm on certain variants.



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[Denver]

Maybe 4nm could be used in 3D cache only?

 

[1d10t]

Maybe 4nm could be used in 3D cache only?

Personally as iGPU become defacto of all CPU line up, I would like to see eDRAM made it's debut

 

[ModEl4]

It looks like Zen5 is 4nm and Zen5c 3nm in 2024 and Zen4c 4nm in 2023.

 

[Tomorrow]

Why is Zen 3 with V-Cache marked as 6nm?

The only mainstream desktop chip was 5800X3D that used 12nm IO die and 7nm chiplet. The same for Milan-X on server. And while mobile Rembrandt was 6nm it lacked V-Cache.

 

[ModEl4]

Maybe the slide was too long and the graphic designer cut out Rembrandt (Zen3+) lol

 

[konga]

This slide was already shown in public a few months ago actually. Nothing seems to have changed on it other than the color palette.

Why is Zen 3 with V-Cache marked as 6nm?

The only mainstream desktop chip was 5800X3D that used 12nm IO die and 7nm chiplet. The same for Milan-X on server. And while mobile Rembrandt was 6nm it lacked V-Cache.

It's not. That group as a whole is marked as 7nm | 6nm. If you look at the next two groups, you can clearly see that the nodes aren't meant to be assigned to any specific thing in the group but the groups as a whole. And there were 6nm Zen 3 parts.

 

[A Computer Guy]

Look like we will be running out of nanometers soon.

 

[Iain Saturn]

For those familiar with 3D cache on current gen - are there any office or video editing applications that can take advantage of it? Gaming only?

Was wondering if I t’s worth waiting for those forthcoming chips.
Thank you for your help.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Why is Zen 3 with V-Cache marked as 6nm?

The only mainstream desktop chip was 5800X3D that used 12nm IO die and 7nm chiplet. The same for Milan-X on server. And while mobile Rembrandt was 6nm it lacked V-Cache.

Ryzen 6000 on laprop is zen3 on 6nm with DDR5 support is what it's referring to I'm guessing.

 

[Minus Infinity]

Also AMD could do a 4nm Zen 4+ refresh later next year to compete against Meteor Lake while it prepares Zen 5 for 2024.

 

[btarunr]

Maybe 4nm could be used in 3D cache only?

On the contrary, the 3DV die can do with an older node. It's rumored that the Zen4+3DV chiplet will be 5 nm CCD + 6 nm L3D (the 3DV die).

 

[ymdhis]

Personally as iGPU become defacto of all CPU line up, I would like to see eDRAM made it's debut

I'd rather have them put a HBM2/3 stack next to the APU. It could make mid-range video cards obsolete, and make for a brutally powerful small form factor PC that also uses minimal power for its graphic performance.

 

[prtskg]

4nm should be for zen4 apu like zen3 apu (Rembrandt) uses 6nm.

 

[ratirt]

I'd rather have them put a HBM2/3 stack next to the APU. It could make mid-range video cards obsolete, and make for a brutally powerful small form factor PC that also uses minimal power for its graphic performance.

that HBM is great but it is also expensive. It would have boosted the price. People complain about the prices already.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

I'd rather have them put a HBM2/3 stack next to the APU. It could make mid-range video cards obsolete, and make for a brutally powerful small form factor PC that also uses minimal power for its graphic performance.

Not really, the incorporated igpu isn't very capable..
These are not Apu grade igpu but office based.

 

[Houd.ini]

I am pretty sure Lisa Su and/or Mark Papermaster said Zen 4c and 4nm was for enterprise specifically.

 

[Wirko]

On the contrary, the 3DV die can do with an older node. It's rumored that the Zen4+3DV chiplet will be 5 nm CCD + 6 nm L3D (the 3DV die).

When AMD first announced the cache die for Zen 3, they said it would be on 6 nm process, optimised for cache. Then it became 7 nm, and we don't know if it's tweaked in any way - my guess is that it is.

 

[konga]

My understanding is that cache doesn't scale particularly well with node shrinks, so there's not much benefit in going with an expensive, cutting-edge node if they can just use 7nm instead.

 

[dgianstefani]

For those familiar with 3D cache on current gen - are there any office or video editing applications that can take advantage of it? Gaming only?

Was wondering if I t’s worth waiting for those forthcoming chips.
Thank you for your help.

Some applications can use it, but in general, gaming workloads benefit most.

 

[Tomorrow]

Some applications can use it, but in general, gaming workloads benefit most.

In my testing i found that WinRAR benefitted massively (but 7-Zip did not). Benchmark numbers were double that of my 3800X. Of course part of that came from the unified main L3 on Zen3 plus other architectural changes from Zen 2 > Zen 3.

 

[Houd.ini]

Some HPC applications and VMs see huge gains with 3D V cache.
Microsoft: Azure HBv3 virtual machines for HPC, now up to 80 percent faster with AMD Milan-X CPUs

 

[HD64G]

Zen4c is a server iteration and should be the one made on 4nm since density is the main target there.

 

[AnotherReader]

Look like we will be running out of nanometers soon.

Marketing nm. The node's feature sizes aren't even close to what the name claims.

 

[jesdals]

My gut feeling is still that we will see a Zen 4 refresh without graphics cores in 2023 - so a refresh 8 core and refresh motherboard chipset in 2023 might be the upgrade road I am going to choose from my 5000 series setup.