Windows 11 General Discussion

[theFOoL]

Heck I have windows 11 22H2 on this pc with a AMD AM3 Phenom ll Black Edition 3.5GHZ 8GB RAM runs great

 

[Shrek]

My Son has a Phenom II with 16GB, but running Windows 10 as he would not be happy with the need to play tricks for Windows 11

 

[MarsM4N]

Options to optimize gaming performance in Windows 11 - Microsoft Support

Directions for turning off memory integrity and the Virtual Machine Platform to improve gaming performance, and the risks of doing so.

prod.support.services.microsoft.com

They recommend to turn off a "security feature" which they advertised as the big selling point for Win11. Can't make this $h1t up!

Microsoft Provides New Performance Tips for Windows 11 Gamers

Turning off both VMP and HVCI officially get the green flag.

www.tomshardware.com

"Frustratingly, Microsoft provides no hint as to what kinds of performance benefits turning off HVCI and/or VMP might deliver. We have a hunch that the difference in performance with these security options toggled on or off will be approximately 5 to 10%. Our guesstimate is based on some early testing within the first week of the Windows 11 launch, toggling Microsoft's Virtualization-Based Security (VBS) and HVCI and noting performance deltas - but things could be different now."

Windows 11 2022 Update causing games to stutter and frame rates to drop

Gaming PCs are running into issues after installing the Windows 11 2022 Update.

www.windowscentral.com

And another headline from 2 weeks ago. I am still baffled that some outlets (TPU, cough) still use Win11 for their benchmark reviews. It's been proven over & over again that Win11 is a "Beta OS", plagued with bugs and unable to provide consistent data for benchmarks. Reviewers should stick with Win10 for their reviews, as 76.43% (!) of gamers according to the Steam Hardware Survey still do. As long as it isn't hitting a 50.1% adoption rate you shouldn't even consider using it as a reverence.

 

[Mussels]

It may be the other way round

My Window's update says
"This PC doesn't currently meet the minimum system requirements to run Windows 11"

I think they are leaving the door open to maybe offering Windows 11 to old machines, or perhaps it's just wishful thinking on my part.

Because you can add a TPM 2.0 module or change a BIOS setting on most platforms to get it working


Interestingly, both those features are *off* on my PC by default

And another headline from 2 weeks ago. I am still baffled that some outlets (TPU, cough) still use Win11 for their benchmark reviews. It's been proven over & over again that Win11 is a "Beta OS", plagued with bugs and unable to provide consistent data for benchmarks. Reviewers should stick with Win10 for their reviews, as 76.43% (!) of gamers according to the Steam Hardware Survey still do. As long as it isn't hitting a 50.1% adoption rate you shouldn't even consider using it as a reverence.

That's an insane viewpoint. If you buy new hardware you *NEED* 11 to use it properly.

 

[OneMoar]

TPM is only required for install you can turn it off afterward with no consequence
or just bypass the check at install using rufus there is zero downside to this as far as I have found everything works as expected the requirement is there to force OEMS to adopt it

windows 11 has no performance 'issues' with virtualization based security disabled (amd being terrible at everything platform related notwithstanding)
most of the time windows 11 accually runs better given its better thread scheduler and support for BIG.little processor architectures

if you don't like the shell install startisallback ( https://www.startallback.com/ is 100% reliable and have ZERO ISSUES I have deployed it to machines in production and have never experienced a signal crash )

but if you decide to stick to 10, fine just don't expect any new bells and whistles to get backported

 

[MarsM4N]

That's an insane viewpoint. If you buy new hardware you *NEED* 11 to use it properly.

Right. Guess 76.43% of gamers have to be "insane" for sticking with Win10. If Win11 is such a banger the adoption rate would be WAY higher. It's a FREE upgrade after all.

And how in the world do you want to use new hardware "properly" when the OS is crippling the performance? At this point you basically have to put a *disclaimer on every hardware benchmark review that you have to disable this and that to archive claimed performance, to not install a Win11 update, etc. Not seeing anything like that mentioned in reviews. Instead folks have to dig around on the web to find out & fiddle around to fix Microsoft's mess like "Beta Testers". It's absolutely laughable.

 

[Mr McC]

If I use Rufus to bypass the TPM requirement and install Windows 11 on my nephew's pre-built, a 3600X currently running Windows 10, will it receive updates and behave just like any other machine that met the TPM requirement by default? Thanks in advance.

 

[Solaris17]

If I use Rufus to bypass the TPM requirement and install Windows 11 on my nephew's pre-built, a 3600X currently running Windows 10, will it receive updates and behave just like any other machine that met the TPM requirement by default? Thanks in advance.

until it doesnt* thats the risk you take using the bypass.

"my engine worked until it didnt" MS can push a build or kernel update in which the way these mechanisms are handled changes. At any time.

The biggest issue I see in this thread and others like it around the internet are that members always say "it worked when I..."; "I havent seen any problems with...." and all of that is great, but its subjective, and can change.

There is absolutely nothing about the bypass' that make it absolute in anyway.

 

[Mr McC]

until it doesnt* thats the risk you take using the bypass.

"my engine worked until it didnt" MS can push a build or kernel update in which the way these mechanisms are handled changes. At any time.

The biggest issue I see in this thread and others like it around the internet are that members always say "it worked when I..."; "I havent seen any problems with...." and all of that is great, but its subjective, and can change.

There is absolutely nothing about the bypass' that make it absolute in anyway.

Thanks

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
Yeah windows does checks for updates a lot unless disabled so doing checks on machines compatibility is done to for drivers...
Deeper compatibility checks "appraiserres.dill" have been done only before installing but this can change anytime.

Best to turn off updates and deal with updates as needed being prepared to do the alterations as needed
I have no problem not checking/ installing updates unlike others I'm actually used to it

Ran into this earlier if anyone is interested

Add Microsoft account to Local account for Hybrid account in Windows 11

A Microsoft account (MSA) is a good choice if a user wants to use the same account on multiple devices, or wants to make it easy to use all / any Microsoft services. Setting up a preinstalled Windows 10 on a new device, after a clean install, or creating a new user on existing Windows...

www.elevenforum.com

 

[nomdeplume]

until it doesnt* thats the risk you take using the bypass.

"my engine worked until it didnt" MS can push a build or kernel update in which the way these mechanisms are handled changes. At any time.

The biggest issue I see in this thread and others like it around the internet are that members always say "it worked when I..."; "I havent seen any problems with...." and all of that is great, but its subjective, and can change.

There is absolutely nothing about the bypass' that make it absolute in anyway.

No disagreeing once a copy of 11 goes bad there is no fixing it. The issue here with your work machine was always support for corporate procurement schedules didn't align with your hardware.

Hi,
Yeah windows does checks for updates a lot unless disabled so doing checks on machines compatibility is done to for drivers...
Deeper compatibility checks "appraiserres.dill" have been done only before installing but this can change anytime.

Best to turn off updates and deal with updates as needed being prepared to do the alterations as needed
I have no problem not checking/ installing updates unlike others I'm actually used to it

Again with the corporate line of reasoning. Stable updating months or years out of sequence appears to offer the most pleasant experience. Once you permanently remove ability to install most updates and any driver life gets much better. When you wait things out long enough to get service packs life is much easier as well.

 

[windwhirl]

And another headline from 2 weeks ago. I am still baffled that some outlets (TPU, cough) still use Win11 for their benchmark reviews. It's been proven over & over again that Win11 is a "Beta OS", plagued with bugs and unable to provide consistent data for benchmarks. Reviewers should stick with Win10 for their reviews, as 76.43% (!) of gamers according to the Steam Hardware Survey still do. As long as it isn't hitting a 50.1% adoption rate you shouldn't even consider using it as a reverence

I'll correct that 76.43 for 68.49%.

Even so, Windows 11's slow uptake is mostly caused by it blocking the upgrade path for most users that don't have a system compliant with Microsoft's recommendations. And the OS is just a year old after all, so a 25% market share with that restriction is pretty good regardless.

That's an insane viewpoint. If you buy new hardware you *NEED* 11 to use it properly.

I'd partially disagree. If you're going Intel, yes. On AMD not really.

They recommend to turn off a "security feature" which they advertised as the big selling point for Win11. Can't make this $h1t up!

People are doing it regardless, so why not, as Bill Bright said, try to show them how to do it without accidentally breaking something else along the way?

Ngl, after years of running my daily driver *exclusively* on Windows Insider Dev builds and having very few noteworthy issues (and nearly all of them my fault) , my opinion is that most issues are caused by people touching stuff without knowing what they are doing.

 

[lexluthermiester]

I really like the deep dive technical stuff.

That should be another reason why you should like 11. There have been many refinements to the core of the OS that make it the more desirable option.

Working in the industry I cant and try not to focus on things like GUI.

While that's a fair point, the UI and how easy it is(or not) to use can make or break an OS.

A good engineer can and should use the OS right for the job and these things don't really matter.

I would agree with this in principle. One must consider the usability of same. Right for the job or not, if it's a pain or cumbersome to use, it's unacceptable. Compared to Windows 7, Windows 8, 8.1 and 10 are all unacceptable. Windows 11, takes things back toward the Windows 7 design school of thought. While it still needs more work toward that end, it's easily better than everything inbetween it and 7.

Salt to taste though because I loved Vista.

Right there with you. Vista's problems where not in it's UI. Once the technical problems were resolved, it was excellent. But Windows 7 was just around the corner and highly anticipated.

No disagreeing once a copy of 11 goes bad there is no fixing it.

I have to disagree there. One of the reasons I love 11 thus far is how robust it is. I have tried to crash 11 to an unrecoverable state and have only succeeded once. Even then a recovery install got everything back up and running. Even 7 wasn't this robust, nor was 10. The Enterprise versions of 10 could be crippled with marginal effort. 11 is far more difficult to cripple and is generally easy to recover.

Especially the centered Icons on the task bar (I was doing this already in windows 10 via third party software) It just makes sense on an ultrawide.

I still prefer them on the traditional left location, but it's nice for people to have that option. I also still use Open Shell(Classic Shell replacement) as a default menu system.

 

[Space Lynx]

Source code for Alder Lake BIOS was posted to GitHub

Some Twitter users seem to think that the code originated from 4chan. It made its way onto GitHub yesterday and before it was taken down earlier this...

www.techspot.com

does this mean AMD is still the security king of CPU's for Windows 11?

 

[lexluthermiester]

Source code for Alder Lake BIOS was posted to GitHub

Some Twitter users seem to think that the code originated from 4chan. It made its way onto GitHub yesterday and before it was taken down earlier this...

www.techspot.com

does this mean AMD is still the security king of CPU's for Windows 11?

No. It just means that someone leaked the Intel bios code. I personally think that kind of code should be open for public inspection anyway.

 

[Solaris17]

Source code for Alder Lake BIOS was posted to GitHub

Some Twitter users seem to think that the code originated from 4chan. It made its way onto GitHub yesterday and before it was taken down earlier this...

www.techspot.com

does this mean AMD is still the security king of CPU's for Windows 11?

Lol? That’s just part of and not even the entirety of just the design specifications

 

[Sombreuil]

For a new build, is there a difference between downloading Windows 10 and then updating it to Windows 11, and downloading Windows 11 directly?

First option seems to be more handy in case I don't like Windows 11, I'd just need to reinstall Windows 10.

 

[Mussels]

Right. Guess 76.43% of gamers have to be "insane" for sticking with Win10. If Win11 is such a banger the adoption rate would be WAY higher. It's a FREE upgrade after all.

And how in the world do you want to use new hardware "properly" when the OS is crippling the performance? At this point you basically have to put a *disclaimer on every hardware benchmark review that you have to disable this and that to archive claimed performance, to not install a Win11 update, etc. Not seeing anything like that mentioned in reviews. Instead folks have to dig around on the web to find out & fiddle around to fix Microsoft's mess like "Beta Testers". It's absolutely laughable.

New hardware needs the new OS.
You cannot review new hardware without it.

You're making some bold and wild claims but they're not really based on how the world works at all...

For a new build, is there a difference between downloading Windows 10 and then updatating it to Windows 11, and downloading Windows 11 directly?

First option seems to be more handy in case I don't like Windows 11, I'd just need to reinstall Windows 10.

You get 2 weeks? before the uninstall option is gone.

It's a waste of disk space and time, just clean install 11 with rufus.

 

[Sombreuil]

You get 2 weeks? before the uninstall option is gone.

It's a waste of disk space and time, just clean install 11 with rufus.

I'm not sure to understand the two weeks part. You're saying that if take the Windows 10 > 11 route, I'd have two weeks to go back to Windows 10 if I wanted to, right?

 

[Mussels]

I'm not sure to understand the two weeks part. You're saying that if take the Windows 10 > 11 route, I'd have two weeks to go back to Windows 10 if I wanted to, right?

It's treated as a windows update, after a certain amount of time the old updates get cleaned up to save space and you can no longer downgrade

 

[Sombreuil]

Oh I see. In the end it's not really a waste of space I'd assume, but I get what you mean. I'll take a look at Rufus then. Thanks.

 

[tabascosauz]

I'm still not seeing any reason to run W11 on a gaming machine, and after a year of running it as a daily on my laptops, I can't really say there's a single improvement in the UI that makes it worth bothering with. If you are a gamer and run into scheduler issues with W10 and alder lake, you can adjust processor affinity for that game, but you'd need to be a gamer with enough productivity reasons to leave the E-cores enabled in the first place...

I have tried not to "revert" it to W10 behaviour so that I can learn and adjust to the interface changes, but as someone who is daily'ing both OSes, using W10 is easy and using W11 is still annoying as hell. I've almost stopped thinking about how dumb all the extra clicks to get to things is, but it's just awkward and clumsy in daily use and no amount of 'getting used to it' will change that.

For the first few months I kept flip-flopping between 11 and 10 because 11 just didn't offer much. Between the scheduling issues on 2CCD, the cache "bug", the lower ST clocks all around, the 11 Start Menu in its original form.........it just wasn't appealing at all.

We're a year down the line now. As of 22H2 I get:

• generally more reliable and faster alt-tab in games (in many cases instant switching)
• drag and drop is back, multi-monitor time is back, soon tabs will be in explorer
• the new window pinning manager is amazing for productivity, and generally multi-monitor is a smoother experience
• new windowed VRR support singlehandedly fixes (natively enables) G-sync for non-true fullscreen games that have been previously broken on any Windows version
• new windowed VRR support singlehandedly fixes the problem of G-sync Compatible flickering
• comparable experience in most games, some games enjoy less stuttering with HAGS on, whereas HAGS makes zero difference on 10
• finally a useful Advanced Network Settings page where network adapters can easily be disabled/enabled

Yes, Win 11 still clocks Zen 3 lower in ST in just about everything (now true across 5900X, 5700G and 5800X3D). Does it actually adversely impact anything? Windows 10 isn't actually faster in any apples-to-apples comparison (clean install vs. clean install, loaded vs. loaded). Like I said in earlier versions, at least in games Win 11 has just learned to make do with less, and that has clearly worked out for the better.

It's like that Zen 3 L3 bug on early Windows 11. Was there an actual problem, or was it the "perception" of being fixed making people feel better about themselves as they once again saw big numbers in AIDA, the most synthetic benchmark in the world (wow)? No point in seeing juicier numbers if they aren't making the experience any better.

It's still not without its problems - I have to re-enable fTPM to get major updates (ie. 22H2), and the list of powershell debloat commands I have to run after a clean install is definitely longer for 11. But if things start to slow down, I'm clean installing 11, not 10. Not going back just to make my life harder for some extra MHz (of which I don't get any lol, it's 5800X3D)

 

[P4-630]

Windows 11, version 22H2 known issues and notifications

View announcements and review known issues and fixes for Windows 11, version 22H2

learn.microsoft.com

September 30, 2022—KB5017389 (OS Build 22621.608) Preview - Microsoft Support

support.microsoft.com

 

[theFOoL]

Hmm... so... this replies to non-hardware also?

LINK


​

 

[lexluthermiester]

Hmm... so... this replies to non-hardware also?

LINK


View attachment 264896​

This is not about unsupported hardware if that's what you're asking. Users really should NOT do this. This is one of those things microsoft is doing that is actually good for the common user base.