Intel Claims 11 Percent Gaming Performance Advantage of the Core i9-13900K Over AMD's Ryzen 9 7950X

[R0H1T]

Gaming wattage among all 3 is around 80-110W... unless you're playing Cinebench.

He said around 40% increase in performance with similar wattage ~ that's not in gaming for sure & in MT workloads it will definitely not be similar wattage given the number of E cores that have been added besides the raised clock speeds.

 

[phanbuey]

Until the B760 boards and locked cpu's are released in January, Intel is in the same boat as AMD as for as pricing goes if you want a 13 gen DDR5 board to go along with a 13 gen cpu. If Intel had done it right they would have released those boards and cpu's in early December (before Christmas).

Not sure about the same boat -- just picked up a 13700KF for $429 that could slot into:

I have this board in another build and it's actually good... AMD has nothing that can hold a AM5 cpu in this range. Those are pretty different boats. The 13th gen motherboards are on a dead socket so not sure why anyone would want to splurge extra on LGA1700 at this point.

 

[DemonicRyzen666]

Intel i9-13900K will go up to 5.8 GHz, so it is expected and this CPU will be new king. Then AMD 7800X3D prolly take it back and month or two later Intel with i9-13900KS pre binned CPU labeled 6 GHz.

Just marketing games. Intel waited with 13900K for 7950X, AMD is waiting with 7800X3D for 13900K, later Intel will do the same with 13900KS.

And then ...

I'm pretty sure if you look around you can find zomeone Running a Zen 4 at 5.8ghz.

 

[Why_Me]

Not sure about the same boat -- just picked up a 13700KF for $429 that could slot into:

View attachment 266184

I have this board in another build and it's actually good... AMD has nothing that can hold a AM5 cpu in this range. Those are pretty different boats. The 13th gen motherboards are on a dead socket so not sure why anyone would want to splurge extra on LGA1700 at this point.

Nice buy ^^. It's the locked cpu's and B760 DDR5 boards that are going to be the big sellers imo. As of now I know of only two B660 DDR5 boards available in the US.

 

[RandallFlagg]

Nice buy ^^. It's the locked cpu's and B760 DDR5 boards that are going to be the big sellers imo. As of now I know of only two B660 DDR5 boards available in the US.

Not sure about that. The middle market seems to be turtling up. Only high end seems to be selling well, and that really goes beyond CPUs/MBs.

The Rog Maximus is the #1 seller at Microcenter for Z690. The 13900K/KF pre-orders are sold out at NewEgg.

 

[Why_Me]

Not sure about that. The middle market seems to be turtling up. Only high end seems to be selling well, and that really goes beyond CPUs/MBs.

The Rog Maximus is the #1 seller at Microcenter for Z690. The 13900K/KF pre-orders are sold out at NewEgg.

I've posted a half dozen builds this week with this board + cpu + cooler for peeps who want to jump on the DDR5 bandwagon but can't afford the new unlocked cpu's + Z690 / Z790 boards. I keep telling them to wait until after January.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1687328-REG/msi_mag_b660m_mortar_wifi.html
MSI MAG B660M MORTAR WIFI DDR5 $179.99

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09NPJDPVG
Intel Core i7-12700F $312.99

https://www.amazon.com/DeepCool-AK620-High-Performance-Dual-Tower-Dissipation/dp/B09CSXS3X4

DeepCool AK620 CPU Cooler $64.99

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09MTS5YH1
CORSAIR Vengeance DDR5 4800 32GB (2x16GB) CL40 $139.99

 

[Ayhamb99]

Nice buy ^^. It's the locked cpu's and B760 DDR5 boards that are going to be the big sellers imo. As of now I know of only two B660 DDR5 boards available in the US.

There are more than 2 but the B660 DDR5 Boards prices are pretty bad, the only sanely priced ones are the MSI B660-A WIFI and Mortar, rest are somehow more expensive than Z690 DDR5 boards.

 

[Daven]

Is this a fart simulator?

I'm always dubious of company slides but I imagine the 13900K will have a slight gaming advantage. No surprise there.

Lololol. That cracked me up.

 

[Vayra86]

Is this a fart simulator?

I'm always dubious of company slides but I imagine the 13900K will have a slight gaming advantage. No surprise there.

Nah its a DX12 game with pretty high CPU load at end game stages, as it loads waves of alien critters that attack your base. So it'll use cores, and frequency.

But honestly even on my 8700K it runs perfectly fine at that stage. And the game burns out of new things / challenge rather quickly, too

All these CPU wins are mostly theoretical, I don't see how it's useful unless you run the fastest GPU at a low res. Anything 6core/ 8thread with 4Ghz and up today is just fine for everything in gaming land, diminishing returns strike hard above it. There is this fight over some gaming crown I hear, in CPU land. Okay. Enjoy... They'll need some sort of cpu based ray tracing to make it useful

 

[Ayhamb99]

I'm still wondering when is the right time for me to pull the trigger and upgrade my I5 9400f, I'm curious to see how the locked 13th gen CPUs will perform (Specially the I5 13400f, hell maybe the I3 13100F would be a good upgrade over the 9400F).

 

[Why_Me]

I'm still wondering when is the right time for me to pull the trigger and upgrade my I5 9400f, I'm curious to see how the locked 13th gen CPUs will perform (Specially the I5 13400f, hell maybe the I3 13100F would be a good upgrade over the 9400F).

That's the one I'm waiting on.

 

[fevgatos]

"Similar wattage" yeah right :quadruple eyeroll:

You can roll every part of your body and it wont change the facts. The 12900k was at 240w, the 13900k is at 250w. Yes, that's similar wattage. Keep rolling

He said around 40% increase in performance with similar wattage ~ that's not in gaming for sure & in MT workloads it will definitely not be similar wattage given the number of E cores that have been added besides the raised clock speeds.

Exactly. What intel did is so miraculous you refuse to believe it. Check back tommorrow and tell me - after the reviews - how much faster is the 13900k over the 12900k in mt workloads at the same wattage. Youll be amazed.

 

[Readlight]

Is gamers their biggest profit?

 

[Why_Me]

Is gamers their biggest profit?

A lot of gamers with more money than brains already have this cpu preordered. The i7-13700F will use less power, create less heat not to mention it will be less expensive than the unlocked i9 yet it will hang with the best of them if it's anything like the i7-12700F.

 

[64K]

I don't think any gamer needs an i9 13900k

 

[R0H1T]

You can roll every part of your body and it wont change the facts. The 12900k was at 240w, the 13900k is at 250w. Yes, that's similar wattage. Keep rolling

Didn't realize you had the chip already, guess we live & learn

What intel did is so miraculous you refuse to believe it. Check back tommorrow and tell me - after the reviews - how much faster is the 13900k over the 12900k in mt workloads at the same wattage. Youll be amazed.

Yeah I remember your prediction in the other thread, around 40% (more efficiency) would indeed be nearly miraculous especially if it's across the board & not in some cherry picked benches.

 

[kapone32]

Intel i9-13900K will go up to 5.8 GHz, so it is expected and this CPU will be new king. Then AMD 7800X3D prolly take it back and month or two later Intel with i9-13900KS pre binned CPU labeled 6 GHz.

Just marketing games. Intel waited with 13900K for 7950X, AMD is waiting with 7800X3D for 13900K, later Intel will do the same with 13900KS.

And then ...

Isn't competition great. All we need are prices to come down from the Stratosphere. Intel does have nice chips at the low end but I still prefer my 5600G. That chip is now as low as $149 Canadian.

 

[fevgatos]

Didn't realize you had the chip already, guess we live & learn

Yeah I remember your prediction in the other thread, around 40% (more efficiency) would indeed be nearly miraculous especially if it's across the board & not in some cherry picked benches.

Well what do you mean across the board? Of course there won't a 40% efficiency in games or single threaded workloads, that's a given. We are talking about multithreaded, or so I assume

Didn't realize you had the chip already, guess we live & learn

Yeah I remember your prediction in the other thread, around 40% (more efficiency) would indeed be nearly miraculous especially if it's across the board & not in some cherry picked benches.

Do i need the chip to go to intels website and read the specs?

Intel® Core™ i9-13900K Processor (36M Cache, up to 5.80 GHz) - Product Specifications | Intel

Intel® Core™ i9-13900K Processor (36M Cache, up to 5.80 GHz) quick reference with specifications, features, and technologies.

www.intel.com

It can't exceed 250w at stock even if it wanted to do, it's power limited

 

[InVasMani]

I think Intel nailed it on the right changes over Alder Lake actually for Raptor Lake they fixed my biggest critiques of it in terms of the E cores. I think they could've gone further on the E core amount if anything and purged a few P cores in favor or additional E cores, but at least they resolved the individual multipliers issues and didn't go half way across two generations. Going from 1 multiplier for every 4 cores on the E cores to 1 multiplier per E cores is going to lead to a lots of efficiency gains over Alder Lake's design.

The additional E cores will also lead to a good improvement on MT over previous generation. The cache is a nice bonus and subtle improvements in IPC to both cores are a good plus. The idle and boost frequencies are generally better tuned thanks to the E core improvements which improves efficiency scaling and opens up some thermal improvements for better boosts or quieter operation. Those are all bigger gripes I had with Alder Lake design. The odd one out appears like the 13700K though the power limits and intention binning differences might make the 13600K value than it appears at face value. The opposite could also be true though it might actually do exceedingly well and max power limit isn't as constraining as it may appear like. We'll see after more in depth review analysis.

I don't think you can say anything bad about the 13900K provided you stick to stock power limits or preferably optimize for efficiency. I think they will be exceptional chips to hand tune and leverage though the multiplier changes should be very interesting. If you're a overclocker or undervolting enthusiast at heart these look quite fun. What will happen on 13900K if you take 8 of those 16 of the E cores and reduce the base frequency on those another 800MHz to match the drop in frequency that you see from P cores to E cores. There are 8 of those so why not turn half the E cores into even more efficient E cores on the last 8!!?

All of that aside I'm still waiting on Zen 4 X3D I think it will be a incredible gaming CPU with respectable MT, but if multi-thread performance was my primary consideration I'd probably pick it up 13900K because it looks really good for that purpose. We'll see how reviews go, but that's how it appears to me prior to more in depth cross analysis as opposed random internet leaks and missing relevant data comparisons.

 

[R0H1T]

Well what do you mean across the board? Of course there won't a 40% efficiency in games or single threaded workloads, that's a given. We are talking about multithreaded, or so I assume

So why throw out that random 40% number, what were you trying to achieve there? For all, or most, MT workloads right? Or will you shift to another excuse/claim when the reviews are published

Do i need the chip to go to intels website and read the specs?

https://www.intel.com/content/www/u...-36m-cache-up-to-5-80-ghz/specifications.html
It can't exceed 250w at stock even if it wanted to do, it's power limited

There you go again, need I remind you "TDP" numbers are generally meaningless or do you think if you repeat a lie enough times it becomes the truth

The Intel 12th Gen Core i9-12900K Review: Hybrid Performance Brings Hybrid Complexity

www.anandtech.com

 

[ModEl4]

Tomorrow we will know how far Intel's claims were, but the below estimation is SPECint based, you can't cheat like in games (or some other apps) choosing level and scene for example!
Now if this will translate to multithreading apps like CB23 we will see.

 

[Crackong]

Actual reviews should be coming within 24 hours?
it is just no point looking at leaks now

 

[InVasMani]

Individual multipliers across all E cores should translate to far better efficiency and more E cores means more multi-thread performance. That's beyond the other stuff that will help as well, but I think E core changes will have impactful difference. It's probably also integral to the better idle and boost frequencies over Alder Lake as well. I'd really like seeing half the 16 E cores on 3900K dropped by 800MHz and compared at different power levels both against a stock 13900K and to the 12900K. The E cores have individual multipliers and voltages now.

The 13900K is going to be probably the most fun overclocker/undervolt enthusiast chip since C2Q chips at least with K chips that are unlocked. I'd be more shocked if it wasn't. I think a certain crowd of enthusiasts will have droves of fun poking and prodding at the hardware limitations and how far you can push things in different types of ways. I still believe the odd one out if mostly the 13700K, but the max power limits on 13600K could get end up a limiting factor in the case of a heavier overclock. How much it might hinder value proposition is hard to say. I think 13900K is safe no matter what that chip will be a beast and top binned at the same time.

The only thing I don't know is if Intel will try to cox people into buying the higher unlocked SKU's or really doesn't care in either case. The yields are going to be better on the 13600K and they can always sell more quantity so form Intel's perspective selling twice as many 13600K chips probably doesn't concern the too heavily even if they've got a slight preference to pitching one or the other.

 

[Deleted member 185088]

I went to the https://www.intel.com/performanceindex indicated at the bottom on the charts in the pictures and I couldn't find any comparison listed there of the 13900k vs the 7950.

I can find the 13900k being compared to the 5800X3D and 5950X, but nothing from AM5. Perhaps someone else can pop in there and look around and see if I just somehow overlooked it.....or maybe Intel just hasn't posted it? Seems odd they say you can check specs for hardware on their chart, yet you can't find it.

I took one of the games on the graph (Far Cry 6) and looked under the 13th Gen Desktop Processors, but I couldn't find any 7950 (or any 7xxx series CPU from AMD listed).

Here are examples of what I can find:

As measured by Far Cry 6. (this is for 1080p)

• The 13th Generation Intel® Core™ i9-13900K processor delivers up to 6% more average frames per second (FPS) while playing Far Cry 6, compared to the AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D processor.
• 13th Gen Intel® Core™ i9-13900K processor (RPL-S) PL1 set to 253W TDP, 24C32T (8P + 16E); Motherboard: Intel Internal Validation board; Memory: G.Skill DDR5 CL 28-34-34-89, 2X 16GB DDR5-5600MHz; Storage: Samsung 980 Pro 1TB; Display Resolution: 1920x1080; OS: Microsoft Windows 11 Pro 22621.160; Graphics card: NVIDIA RTX 3090 (FTW3), Graphics driver: 516.59; Motherboard BIOS version: RPLSFWI1.R00.3257.A00.2207020322 with ucode patch 0x107
• AMD Ryzen™ 7 5800X3D processor PL1=105W TDP, 8C16T, Motherboard: Asus ROG Crosshair Hero VIII (WI-FI); Memory: G. Skill DDR4 CL 14-14-14-34, 2X 16GB DDR4-3200 MT/s; Storage: Samsung 980 Pro 1TB; Display Resolution: 1920x1080; OS: Microsoft Windows 11 Pro 22621.160; Graphics card: NVIDIA RTX 3090 (FTW3), Graphics driver: 516.59; Motherboard BIOS version: 3201

As measured by Far Cry 6. (this is for 1080p)

• The 13th Generation Intel® Core™ i9-13900K processor delivers up to 31% more average frames per second (FPS) while playing Far Cry 6, compared to the AMD Ryzen 9 5950X processor.
• 13th Gen Intel® Core™ i9-13900K processor (RPL-S) PL1 set to 253W TDP, 24C32T (8P + 16E); Motherboard: Intel Internal Validation board; Memory: G.Skill DDR5 CL 28-34-34-89, 2X 16GB DDR5-5600MHz; Storage: Samsung 980 Pro 1TB; Display Resolution: 1920x1080; OS: Microsoft Windows 11 Pro 22621.160; Graphics card: NVIDIA RTX 3090 (FTW3), Graphics driver: 516.59; Motherboard BIOS version: RPLSFWI1.R00.3257.A00.2207020322 with ucode patch 0x107
• AMD Ryzen™ 9 5950X processor PL1=105W TDP, 16C32T, Motherboard: Asus ROG Crosshair Hero VIII; Memory: G. Skill DDR4 CL 14-14-14-34, 2X 16GB DDR4-3200 MHz; Storage: Samsung 980 Pro 1TB; Display Resolution: 1920x1080; OS: Microsoft Windows 11 Pro 22621.160; Graphics card: NVIDIA RTX 3090 (FTW3), Graphics driver: 516.59; Motherboard BIOS version: 4201

Clearly the gains of the 13900k vs the 5950X or the 5800X3D are not listed in the graphs so I'm not sure where they are getting the info if it's not publicly listed on the link they provided.

Why they used the 3090 for 1080p, the 6950 would've been better, or better still a 4090.

 

[beedoo]

I don't think any gamer needs an i9 13900k

Why not? People don't really need much of anything, yet we work (some of us), and we keep buying stuff we don't really need.

One life, one shot at being happy. We're not monks