• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Samsung 870 EVO - Beware, certain batches prone to failure!

E.S

Joined
Sep 22, 2022
Messages
51 (0.07/day)
Zeromis said:

What is FC even meant to represent though.
SMART ID "FC" (252) is described on wikipedia as follows:
252
0xFC
Newly Added Bad Flash BlockThe Newly Added Bad Flash Block attribute indicates the total number of bad flash blocks the drive detected since it was first initialized in manufacturing.[81]
Given this explanation, increasing this value seems like a problem.
I've been using the 870evo for over a year now and the "FC" value has been increasing recently.
 

JagCube

New Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2022
Messages
3 (0.00/day)
Since 0xFC / 252 is officially a "vendor specific" attribute, are there really any guarantees it means exactly the same thing on these current Samsung drives with the new firmware, as somebody somewhere on the Internet years ago determined it means on their possibly not even Samsung drive?

Not to defend Samsung or anything. I bought a 1TB 870 EVO myself a little less than a year ago which it seems I now need to return and hope for a non-defective replacement, and an eventual refund if the replacement turns out to have the same problem.
 

E.S

Joined
Sep 22, 2022
Messages
51 (0.07/day)
Since 0xFC / 252 is officially a "vendor specific" attribute, are there really any guarantees it means exactly the same thing on these current Samsung drives with the new firmware, as somebody somewhere on the Internet years ago determined it means on their possibly not even Samsung drive?

Not to defend Samsung or anything. I bought a 1TB 870 EVO myself a little less than a year ago which it seems I now need to return and hope for a non-defective replacement, and an eventual refund if the replacement turns out to have the same problem.
Samsung has not explained anything about this big problem.
that's abnormal.
We should suspect Samsung as much as possible.
 

JagCube

New Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2022
Messages
3 (0.00/day)
Samsung has not explained anything about this big problem.

Yes, that would certainly be appreciated. Also them telling what exactly 0xFC means and providing a changelog for the firmware would be very, very nice.

We should suspect Samsung as much as possible.

However, if you check the SMART attribute descriptions used by CrystalDiskInfo you can already find an alternate description for attribute 0xFC (see under the various SmartMicron headings):

"FC=Total NAND Read Plane Count (High 4Bytes)"

It seems my old 512 GB Intel-branded SSD in one of my PCs also reports a 0xFC SMART attribute which is currently at 0x22 (34 dec) which I have no idea what it might be, and whether it was lower when the disk was new. It could even plausibly be a temperature value (34°C). I can at least say I've never had any problems whatsoever with that disk, and all the error counters and reallocated sector count are still at zero after many years.
 
Last edited:

E.S

Joined
Sep 22, 2022
Messages
51 (0.07/day)
Presumably The update to firmware "SVT02B6Q" is intended to fix our problem.
The addition of "FC" is of course also relevant.
"Total NAND Read Plane Count" is irrelevant to this problem.
It would be reasonable to interpret it as "Newly Added Bad Flash Block"
I suspect that they are trying to avoid RMT by replacing fatal values SMART ID "05" (Reallocated Sector Count) and "183" (Runtime Bad Block) with "FC".
 
Last edited:

JagCube

New Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2022
Messages
3 (0.00/day)
Presumably The update to firmware "SVT02B6Q" is intended to fix our problem.
The addition of "FC" is of course also relevant.
"Total NAND Read Plane Count" is irrelevant to this problem.
It would be reasonable to interpret it as "Newly Added Bad Flash Block"
I suspect that they are trying to avoid RMT by replacing fatal values SMART ID "05" (Reallocated Sector Count) and "183" (Runtime Bad Block) with "FC".

If the intention is to hide the existence of broken sectors from users, why have any externally visible counter for them at all? The drive could still internally keep track of them for remapping without ever telling the user anything about them. And why pick 0xFC for it when there's "prior art" of using this attribute number for a bad sector count?

They cannot hide the disks losing sectors forever anyway because eventually the user is going to notice that some files they stored earlier cannot be read anymore. Unless the new firmware just ignores uncorrectable read errors and returns garbage data in such a case? (I wouldn't know, I've not used it, my EVO came with the old firmware from factory and I never updated it)

I don't know how things would work out outside in countries with less legally mandated consumer protection, but I'm pretty sure that here I could get the drive exchanged or refunded regardless of any SMART counters if some tens to hundreds of sectors just become unreadable. Especially if the new firmware still stores uncorrectable read errors in the SMART log and fails the SMART self test on such unreadable sectors, but possibly even just an OS always reporting I/O errors when reading certain sectors could be enough.

edit: I am of course lucky enough to be in a situation where I can deal with the retailer (less than 2 years from purchase date). Probably things wouldn't go so well if I had to deal directly with Samsung.

I certainly hope if the retailer sends me another 870 EVO that if it's going to develop this problem, it'll develop it before the 2 years are up so I can just ask them instead of Samsung for a refund.

btw. here are the details of my broken 1TB EVO:
- Manufactured 2021.07
- Made in China
- PN MZ7L31T0HBLB
- Model MZ-77E1T0
- Factory firmware SVT01B6Q
- Serial S6PUNF0R[...]
 
Last edited:

E.S

Joined
Sep 22, 2022
Messages
51 (0.07/day)
If the intention is to hide the existence of broken sectors from users, why have any externally visible counter for them at all? The drive could still internally keep track of them for remapping without ever telling the user anything about them. And why pick 0xFC for it when there's "prior art" of using this attribute number for a bad sector count?
I don't know.
Maybe samsung wants the data.
The 870evo is Samsung's first 1xxL 3D TLC NAND. You may want to collect data using users as test subjects.
Also, most people don't really care about the "FC" value.
In fact, no one on any forum pointed out that "FC" is "Newly Added Bad Flash Block" until I pointed it out here.
There was no one.
 
Joined
Jun 30, 2013
Messages
89 (0.02/day)
Now it gets a bit weird, are you suggesting that Samsung is receiving all SMART data as telemetry over the internet or something? :laugh:

Yes, you are the only one repeatedly claiming that FC is related to new bad blocks. Sadly, an unproven claim doesn't become more well-founded by repeating it a lot.

I don't want to exclude the possibility that this FC value means something negative going on internally. But i would actually have to see that become reality for someone, it really preceding a failure with actual bad sectors on the drive. That's the point where i would become worried about the FC value. Otherwise, it could mean whatever.

The other day i installed a Verbatim Vi550 S3 SSD in someone's old notebook. I'm not exaggerating, it had like 30+ SMART IDs/values, and only a handful had a description, all the rest were vendor specific!
 

E.S

Joined
Sep 22, 2022
Messages
51 (0.07/day)
They cannot hide the disks losing sectors forever anyway because eventually the user is going to notice that some files they stored earlier cannot be read anymore.
It may be Reallocated before it becomes unreadable, and then retired as a bad block.

Sadly, an unproven claim doesn't become more well-founded by repeating it a lot.
You said that early batch was the cause without any evidence.
It has led many users in the wrong direction.
Although samsung may be pleased.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 30, 2013
Messages
89 (0.02/day)
You said that early batch was the cause without any evidence.
It has led many users in the wrong direction.

It was the best information i had at the time, according to the cases i saw. I would very much like to edit my first post for various reasons, but the forum doesn't allow it.
 
Joined
Sep 29, 2015
Messages
126 (0.04/day)
I got this problem on 2 of my Samsung 870 4TB SSD, made date feb 21 and sept 21, made in korea, trying to get rma accepted, nightmare proof they need.

 

Captain Danger

New Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2022
Messages
9 (0.01/day)
TLDR: It usually happened when the Total Host Writes ≈ 10TB, most affected SSDs are manifactured in 2021 (so the eighth digit is mainly R), but there still exists a few cases in 2020 (i.e. the eighth digit is N) and January 2022 (i.e. the eighth digit is T, the ninth digit is 1)
Do you have any data as to when it crossed 10 TB and failed, how many of them were from each capacity? (250GB, 500GB, 1TB, 2TB and 4TB.)
 

Mussels

Freshwater Moderator
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
58,413 (7.96/day)
Location
Oystralia
System Name Rainbow Sparkles (Power efficient, <350W gaming load)
Processor Ryzen R7 5800x3D (Undervolted, 4.45GHz all core)
Motherboard Asus x570-F (BIOS Modded)
Cooling Alphacool Apex UV - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora + EK Quantum ARGB 3090 w/ active backplate
Memory 2x32GB DDR4 3600 Corsair Vengeance RGB @3866 C18-22-22-22-42 TRFC704 (1.4V Hynix MJR - SoC 1.15V)
Video Card(s) Galax RTX 3090 SG 24GB: Underclocked to 1700Mhz 0.750v (375W down to 250W))
Storage 2TB WD SN850 NVME + 1TB Sasmsung 970 Pro NVME + 1TB Intel 6000P NVME USB 3.2
Display(s) Phillips 32 32M1N5800A (4k144), LG 32" (4K60) | Gigabyte G32QC (2k165) | Phillips 328m6fjrmb (2K144)
Case Fractal Design R6
Audio Device(s) Logitech G560 | Corsair Void pro RGB |Blue Yeti mic
Power Supply Fractal Ion+ 2 860W (Platinum) (This thing is God-tier. Silent and TINY)
Mouse Logitech G Pro wireless + Steelseries Prisma XL
Keyboard Razer Huntsman TE ( Sexy white keycaps)
VR HMD Oculus Rift S + Quest 2
Software Windows 11 pro x64 (Yes, it's genuinely a good OS) OpenRGB - ditch the branded bloatware!
Benchmark Scores Nyooom.
It was the best information i had at the time, according to the cases i saw. I would very much like to edit my first post for various reasons, but the forum doesn't allow it.
If you report your own post you can ask for permissions to be altered to allow edits
 
Joined
Jan 3, 2015
Messages
3,006 (0.84/day)
System Name The beast and the little runt.
Processor Ryzen 5 5600X - Ryzen 9 5950X
Motherboard ASUS ROG STRIX B550-I GAMING - ASUS ROG Crosshair VIII Dark Hero X570
Cooling Noctua NH-L9x65 SE-AM4a - NH-D15 chromax.black with IPPC Industrial 3000 RPM 120/140 MM fans.
Memory G.SKILL TRIDENT Z ROYAL GOLD/SILVER 32 GB (2 x 16 GB and 4 x 8 GB) 3600 MHz CL14-15-15-35 1.45 volts
Video Card(s) GIGABYTE RTX 4060 OC LOW PROFILE - GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC
Storage Samsung 980 PRO 1 TB + 2 TB - Samsung 870 EVO 4 TB - 2 x WD RED PRO 16 GB + WD ULTRASTAR 22 TB
Display(s) Asus 27" TUF VG27AQL1A and a Dell 24" for dual setup
Case Phanteks Enthoo 719/LUXE 2 BLACK
Audio Device(s) Onboard on both boards
Power Supply Phanteks Revolt X 1200W
Mouse Logitech G903 Lightspeed Wireless Gaming Mouse
Keyboard Logitech G910 Orion Spectrum
Software WINDOWS 10 PRO 64 BITS on both systems
Benchmark Scores Se more about my 2 in 1 system here: kortlink.dk/2ca4x
Aw, I just buying such a drive today. Now I'm not sure if I should return it.

Any one knows if this issue has been fixed or still effect ssd produced later?
 

kevin335200

New Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2022
Messages
19 (0.02/day)
Do you have any data as to when it crossed 10 TB and failed, how many of them were from each capacity? (250GB, 500GB, 1TB, 2TB and 4TB.)
This speculation comes from the observation of a large number of CDI screenshots, I do not yet have spare time to create a sheet for accurate statistics, but in general I don't feel a strong correlation with the capacity (almost all of the screenshots are somewhere between 7T - 15T). As well, the expression around 10T is not really precise, it is only an approximate confidence interval from my observation. I feel like it could be a little bit higher, but no more than 15T.

Also, this is only the data when the user found the problem and does not represent the amount when the failure started.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 29, 2015
Messages
126 (0.04/day)
This speculation comes from the observation of a large number of CDI screenshots, I do not yet have spare time to create a sheet for accurate statistics, but in general I don't feel a strong correlation with the capacity (almost all of the screenshots are somewhere between 7T - 15T). As well, the expression around 10T is not really precise, it is only an approximate confidence interval from my observation. I feel like it could be a little bit higher, but no more than 15T.

Also, this is only the data when the user found the problem and does not represent the amount when the failure started.
This is on only 2021 ssd's, or are the 2022 ssd's still have this problem ? thx
 

kevin335200

New Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2022
Messages
19 (0.02/day)
This is on only 2021 ssd's, or are the 2022 ssd's still have this problem ? thx
I have only collected 1 case from January 2022 so far, so it could be outlier. After this time point the problem might have been solved, however, Samsung does not have any official statement yet. Only time will tell.
 
Joined
Feb 20, 2020
Messages
9,340 (5.42/day)
Location
Louisiana
System Name Ghetto Rigs z490|x99|Acer 17 Nitro 7840hs/ 5600c40-2x16/ 4060/ 1tb acer stock m.2/ 4tb sn850x
Processor 10900k w/Optimus Foundation | 5930k w/Black Noctua D15
Motherboard z490 Maximus XII Apex | x99 Sabertooth
Cooling oCool D5 res-combo/280 GTX/ Optimus Foundation/ gpu water block | Blk D15
Memory Trident-Z Royal 4000c16 2x16gb | Trident-Z 3200c14 4x8gb
Video Card(s) Titan Xp-water | evga 980ti gaming-w/ air
Storage 970evo+500gb & sn850x 4tb | 860 pro 256gb | Acer m.2 1tb/ sn850x 4tb| Many2.5" sata's ssd 3.5hdd's
Display(s) 1-AOC G2460PG 24"G-Sync 144Hz/ 2nd 1-ASUS VG248QE 24"/ 3rd LG 43" series
Case D450 | Cherry Entertainment center on Test bench
Audio Device(s) Built in Realtek x2 with 2-Insignia 2.0 sound bars & 1-LG sound bar
Power Supply EVGA 1000P2 with APC AX1500 | 850P2 with CyberPower-GX1325U
Mouse Redragon 901 Perdition x3
Keyboard G710+x3
Software Win-7 pro x3 and win-10 & 11pro x3
Benchmark Scores Are in the benchmark section
Joined
Jan 5, 2006
Messages
18,584 (2.70/day)
System Name AlderLake
Processor Intel i7 12700K P-Cores @ 5Ghz
Motherboard Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Master
Cooling Noctua NH-U12A 2 fans + Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut Extreme + 5 case fans
Memory 32GB DDR5 Corsair Dominator Platinum RGB 6000MT/s CL36
Video Card(s) MSI RTX 2070 Super Gaming X Trio
Storage Samsung 980 Pro 1TB + 970 Evo 500GB + 850 Pro 512GB + 860 Evo 1TB x2
Display(s) 23.8" Dell S2417DG 165Hz G-Sync 1440p
Case Be quiet! Silent Base 600 - Window
Audio Device(s) Panasonic SA-PMX94 / Realtek onboard + B&O speaker system / Harman Kardon Go + Play / Logitech G533
Power Supply Seasonic Focus Plus Gold 750W
Mouse Logitech MX Anywhere 2 Laser wireless
Keyboard RAPOO E9270P Black 5GHz wireless
Software Windows 11
Benchmark Scores Cinebench R23 (Single Core) 1936 @ stock Cinebench R23 (Multi Core) 23006 @ stock
Joined
Sep 29, 2015
Messages
126 (0.04/day)
I have only collected 1 case from January 2022 so far, so it could be outlier. After this time point the problem might have been solved, however, Samsung does not have any official statement yet. Only time will tell.
Thx, i have one other 870 4TB dated sept 2021, only just started using, like 3TB written to it so far, i reckon this will go bad also, also made in korea like others, i got accepted to rma others, but sent all info via link they give you, and says they contact you within 1 to 2 days, already been 3 days and nothing, is this normal ? thx

Hi,
Avoid 870 evo.
Yeh i might, or go with a different make all together, thx

You could get an 860 evo instead.
Yeh i will look into them, i have a 850 that is 7 years old and my main ssd, and not one error on that, thx
 

E.S

Joined
Sep 22, 2022
Messages
51 (0.07/day)
This is on only 2021 ssd's, or are the 2022 ssd's still have this problem ? thx
Please read my past posts.
2022 ssd's have new firmware.
There is another issue with this new firmware, which is an increase in the SMART ID "FC" value.
"FC" is a value related to bad blocks according to wikipedia, so increasing this value may be a problem.
Perhaps even the new firmware doesn't fundamentally fix the problem.

I have only collected 1 case from January 2022 so far, so it could be outlier. After this time point the problem might have been solved, however, Samsung does not have any official statement yet. Only time will tell.
why are you ignoring my past posts?
The problem is probably not resolved.
 
Joined
Sep 29, 2015
Messages
126 (0.04/day)
Please read my past posts.
2022 ssd's have new firmware.
There is another issue with this new firmware, which is an increase in the SMART ID "FC" value.
"FC" is a value related to bad blocks according to wikipedia, so increasing this value may be a problem.
Perhaps even the new firmware doesn't fundamentally fix the problem.


why are you ignoring my past posts?
The problem is probably not resolved.
Oh, i did not realise the problem was the firmware, thought it was the drives themselves, my 09 2021 drive i have only just started using, with latest firmware, so you saying that 09 2021 drive will hopefully be ok ? thx
 

parityerror

New Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2022
Messages
5 (0.01/day)
I bought 4 pcs of 870 EVO 1 TB in June 2021. The first one failed now with about 3 TB written, can no longer read some of the files on the disk, there are bad blocks and lots of read errors in the smart report. Disk manufacture date is 2021.01.

I don't have any windows machines, so I can't use the Samsung tool to update the firmware of my remaining drives. I found some instructions for downloading and extracting the Samsung fumagician software, but it just crashes on my machine. The firmware file (SVT02B6Q.enc) was included with fumagician, but the linux fwupdmgr command doesn't understand the file format.

Is there a way of updating the SSD firmware on linux - one that actually works?

I will post here if I manage to update the fw... Samsung sure isn't making this easy.
 

E.S

Joined
Sep 22, 2022
Messages
51 (0.07/day)
Oh, i did not realise the problem was the firmware, thought it was the drives themselves, my 09 2021 drive i have only just started using, with latest firmware, so you saying that 09 2021 drive will hopefully be ok ? thx
The root cause of the problem may lie in the drive itself.
The new firmware may appear to fix the problem at first glance, but it may actually be just masking the problem.
We have to note the newly added SMART ID "FC".
 
Top